Danestress Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Has anyone heard from her? I know she said that they were in the final days or even hours with her mother. I just wondered if anyone communicates with her and how she's doing. If you are a prayer, please pray for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelle in MO Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Bumping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissel Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I was just thinking about her too. Hoping she is doing OK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Denise, I have been thinking of you too. Best wishes to you and your whole family. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I have also been thinking of her today. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I've been thinking of her, too, and wondering how she is doing. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) thank you for thinking of me and thank you for your prayers. Things are not going well here. Mom was not properly medicated with morphine/adavan and she almost died several times yesterday CHOKING. I won't get into details but we're all still traumatized here. To watch her and not be able to do anything at all shook me to the core of my being. I'm still crying over it. Mom's breathing, that's all. She hasn't been awake for days, possibly a week now. No food or water 6 days. She took 3 breaths per minute and had apnea for 20 - 30 seconds PER MINUTE during that time, that lasted THIRTY HOURS. Now she's breathing normally. She's in a comatose state, thankfully, because now she knows no pain. We were told at the beginning of the week that mom would NOT survive until the weekend, she had minutes to hours; today she's going strongly. This has been horrendous. Yesterday I yelled and cried at our Hospice nurse the entire time she was here. I hadn't slept for 3 nights, no excuse, but I was beside myself. Mom's trauma was because she was undermedicated. While the nurse was here I asked about doubling the adavan, she said "no" so I grabbed the bottle from her hands and gave her a second dose. Her moaning and choking stopped within 5 minutes. She's been on the double dose ever since and doing fine. When the nurse came today she apologized, I cried again and told her the trauma my mother experienced should have never happened, and my brother, sister and I will forever carry that trauma with us. It happened to her FIVE TIMES and when I called Hospice in the middle of the night, they told me she wasn't choking. I became hysterical and told them SHE WAS. Also, Hospice is supposed to be keeping an eye on mom's meds so we order more to make sure we never ran out. I haven't checked on them at all and we would have been COMPLETELY OUT by the late night last night, had my sister not realized. Our experience with our nurse has NOT been good and I'll be writing in a letter about everything after everything is all done here. I'm sorry, probably tmi, but I still can't believe that happened to my poor mother. I promised her I'd take care of her, I'd keep her comfortable. I feel like I failed her. I'm so sick and tired of not being able to trust the medical community, this is a prime example of why. I am ALWAYS stuck having to take matters into my own hands. BTW, Hospice is who decreased mom's adavan so I put her back on the higher level. Mom's symptoms completely puzzle me. When the final symptoms start, hours later they vanish. I don't know how much longer she can hold out with NO fluid at all. Please pray for her that she NOT have anymore painful/fearful issues. Thanks so much. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Edited July 4, 2009 by Denisemomof4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I'm soooooo sorry. I'm praying for you. It can't be much longer. I'll pray for peace and strength for all of you as you comfort your mom.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffinmom Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 thank you for thinking of me and thank you for your prayers. Things are not going well here. Mom was not properly medicated with morphine/adavan and she almost died several times yesterday CHOKING. I won't get into details but we're all still traumatized here. To watch her and not be able to do anything at all shook me to the core of my being. I'm still crying over it. Mom's breathing, that's all. She hasn't been awake for days, possibly a week now. No food or water 6 days. She took 3 breaths per minute and had apnea for 20 - 30 seconds PER MINUTE during that time, that lasted THIRTY HOURS. Now she's breathing normally. She's in a comatose state, thankfully, because now she knows no pain. We were told at the beginning of the week that mom would NOT survive until the weekend, she had minutes to hours; today she's going strongly. This has been horrendous. Yesterday I yelled and cried at our Hospice nurse the entire time she was here. I hadn't slept for 3 nights, no excuse, but I was beside myself. Mom's trauma was because she was undermedicated. While the nurse was here I asked about doubling the adavan, she said "no" so I grabbed the bottle from her hands and gave her a second dose. Her moaning and choking stopped within 5 minutes. She's been on the double dose ever since and doing fine. When the nurse came today she apologized, I cried again and told her the trauma my mother experienced should have never happened, and my brother, sister and I will forever carry that trauma with us. It happened to her FIVE TIMES and when I called Hospice in the middle of the night, they told me she wasn't choking. I became hysterical and told them SHE WAS. Also, Hospice is supposed to be keeping an eye on mom's meds so we order more to make sure we never ran out. I haven't checked on them at all and we would have been COMPLETELY OUT by the late night last night, had my sister not realized. Our experience with our nurse has NOT been good and I'll be writing in a letter about everything after everything is all done here. I'm sorry, probably tmi, but I still can't believe that happened to my poor mother. I promised her I'd take care of her, I'd keep her comfortable. I feel like I failed her. I'm so sick and tired of not being able to trust the medical community, this is a prime example of why. I am ALWAYS stuck having to take matters into my own hands. BTW, Hospice is who decreased mom's adavan so I put her back on the higher level. Mom's symptoms completely puzzle me. When the final symptoms start, hours later they vanish. I don't know how much longer she can hold out with NO fluid at all. Please pray for her that she NOT have anymore painful/fearful issues. Thanks so much. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: No words! I'm so so sorry you and your family are going through this! Prayers and hugs for you all. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Oh my goodness, ((((((Denise))))). This sounds SO much like our last days with my dh's grandmother!! She had a stroke on 6/1 and went 8 days without food or water in a mostly vegetative state. It was terrible on us, but I know she was comfortable. All I can say is that the end is near and if at any time you feel like just stopping the nurses and increasing (within appropriate levels) OR dropping medication, you do it. At the end, we had spent hours and hours by her side with our 6 kids fending for themselves nearly all day...we'd told mamaw everything we wanted to say, everyone had said goodbye and yet she lingered. Finally, we told hospice to go home. They had been very good, but we felt mamaw was getting too MUCH medication and that if she had any awareness at all, she'd HATE having people checking her vitals and bugging her to change pads and such (which were pretty much dry by then anyhow). She passed a day and a half later and not until *after* we had gone to bed in the wee hours of the morning exhausted. I believe she wanted to go on her terms, in dignity and in private. Did the nurse maybe feel that your mom was not choking but just having the end-stage rattling breath sounds that can be helped with atropine drops? I'm only asking...you obviously know what's really going on! I feel that morphine was given at too high of an initial dose with dh's grandmother and caused the low respiration rate and apnea issues that were very hard to watch. Sometimes those nurses are afraid of giving a lethal dose, too, so I'm sorry that your mom (and YOU) had to suffer from improper comfort management! Mamaw moaned a bit, too, but there were 2 kinds of moans and for one we gave Ativan, the other we just responded with soothing words and a comforting hand on her head or rubbing her arm gently. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Hang in there--you are being a wonderful advocate for your mom and I know that in some way she feels your love right now! Sorry this got long...it's still so fresh in my mind, our experience, that I feel like DOING something to help you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I'm sorry, probably tmi, but I still can't believe that happened to my poor mother. I promised her I'd take care of her, I'd keep her comfortable. I feel like I failed her. My brother ended up needing to be inpatient hospice the last two days of his life. IV meds are much more controllable. There was a comfy bed for his wife, and the kids didn't have to see any of it. It isn't defeat to not die at home, if this is worrying you. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Did the nurse maybe feel that your mom was not choking but just having the end-stage rattling breath sounds that can be helped with atropine drops? I'm only asking...you obviously know what's really going on! I feel that morphine was given at too high of an initial dose with dh's grandmother and caused the low respiration rate and apnea issues that were very hard to watch. Sometimes those nurses are afraid of giving a lethal dose, too, so I'm sorry that your mom (and YOU) had to suffer from improper comfort management! Mamaw moaned a bit, too, but there were 2 kinds of moans and for one we gave Ativan, the other we just responded with soothing words and a comforting hand on her head or rubbing her arm gently. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Hang in there--you are being a wonderful advocate for your mom and I know that in some way she feels your love right now! Sorry this got long...it's still so fresh in my mind, our experience, that I feel like DOING something to help you! actyally, mom's doses were WAY too low. The morphine was at .5 ml and now she's at 1.5 and the ativan was at .5 and now she's at 1.0. The rattle happens, but when the ativan was too low and she was agitated, it caused her to move and choke on the secretions which cause the rattle. She was WAAAAAAAAAY too weak to cough it up. Honestly, she choked and turned blue FIVE TIMES, once in front of the nurse, and we've found that having her head looking to the side keeps her from choking. There's absolutely NO doubt in my mind it was an all out HORRENDOUS choke. Now I'm afraid to move her to change pads but I'm assuming with NO fluids for 6 days and very, very little the week before, she can't be going much. She's gone but she's breathing and I just wish for her it was all over. We all said our goodbyes and sat at her side for three days. I'm going to bed tonight because I need some sleep. We've finally worked on shifts so everyone can at least get a little sleep and mom won't be left alone. We've also tried everyone leaving the room so she could pass on alone..... it didn't work. Hospice, and all of us, are absolutely amazed that she's still here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 My brother ended up needing to be inpatient hospice the last two days of his life. IV meds are much more controllable. There was a comfy bed for his wife, and the kids didn't have to see any of it. It isn't defeat to not die at home, if this is worrying you.:grouphug: we questioned this but were told mom would die in transport. Now that we have her meds at the RIGHT dosage, she's doing fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Oh Denise. I'm so so sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 actyally, mom's doses were WAY too low. The morphine was at .5 ml and now she's at 1.5 and the ativan was at .5 and now she's at 1.0. The rattle happens, but when the ativan was too low and she was agitated, it caused her to move and choke on the secretions which cause the rattle. She was WAAAAAAAAAY too weak to cough it up. Honestly, she choked and turned blue FIVE TIMES, once in front of the nurse, and we've found that having her head looking to the side keeps her from choking. There's absolutely NO doubt in my mind it was an all out HORRENDOUS choke. Now I'm afraid to move her to change pads but I'm assuming with NO fluids for 6 days and very, very little the week before, she can't be going much. She's gone but she's breathing and I just wish for her it was all over. We all said our goodbyes and sat at her side for three days. I'm going to bed tonight because I need some sleep. We've finally worked on shifts so everyone can at least get a little sleep and mom won't be left alone. We've also tried everyone leaving the room so she could pass on alone..... it didn't work. Hospice, and all of us, are absolutely amazed that she's still here. Denise, Yes, your mother was very much undermedicated!!! I can say that with confidence because I am a nurse. Good grief, it makes me mad to see poor nursing care!! Honey, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I cannot imagine. Praying for you still. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 :grouphug: Denise and family :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 (((Denise))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I'm so sorry this is taking so long for your poor mom, Denise, but please, please, please don't blame yourself for anything that has gone wrong. Your mom knows that you've kept your promises to her as best you could, and she would never blame you for any of the mistakes that were made by others. It's so clear that you love your mom so much, and that you would never, ever intentionally do anything to hurt her. If I can see that from a few posts on a message board, your mom certainly knows it, too. You're exhausted and you're too raw to think clearly, but you're doing everything possible for your mom, and I really admire you for it. Your mom is lucky to have such a wonderful daughter. My MIL died of liver failure several years ago, and the situation was very much like your mom's. Everyone said she would die within a few days, but it was 7 or 8 days before she passed away, and it was absolutely heartbreaking to sit there and not be able to do anything, and it felt so weird to pray for someone to die, but there was nothing else we could do. I hope your mom passes away peacefully, with you at her side, but whatever happens, please try not to be so hard on yourself. You are doing so much more for your mom than most people would do, and the fact that you're worried that you're not living up to all of your promises makes me certain that your mom would be very proud of you for trying your best. Praying for you, your mom, and your family. :grouphug: Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarfoot Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I was thinking about you, too. I'll keep praying. I really admire the way that you've dealt with everything! Peace to you.:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I have sat at my dying mother's bedside, and my heart just goes out to you. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I was thinking and praying for you as well, Denise, and will continue to. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheezie Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 I'm still thinking of you all, and praying too. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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