Leave TOG? Have I taken leave of my senses??

[Shelly in IL]

Is that still BJU? Sorry - I will be happy, I will be happy :)

[TraceyS/FL]

Is that still BJU? Sorry - I will be happy, I will be happy :)

 

Yes, BJU Distance Learning, 7th Grade History - Mrs. Moon is the teacher (she also does 6th & 9th). I couldn't read the whole thread before posting - i had bread about to explode out of the pan while rising :tongue_smilie:

[PeterPan]

Thank you for your much respected advice. That was my plan, except I'm not sure how I'd combine 2yrs. of VP for my older. He'll have the oportunity to use any BJU subject we need in a high school co-op here, starting in 9th, which we we'll need to take full advantage of for all the credits he'll need. I just thought he'd have to miss out on most of the 4th yr. in his history cycle. So, any advice on what you would do for my older would be great, since using VP would be great to stick with for my youngers.

 

Rebecca, once you get into your VP stuff and start using it, you'll see how easy it would be to combine two years. You just basically do two cards a week instead of one. Your student will be old enough at that point, it won't be a problem at all. At that point your decision would be whether to have them read the entirety of Hakim or just the pages the cards cite.

 

BTW, I don't know if you have a preferred spine already for your MARR, but I double-kick myself that I never got the CLP Story of the Middle Ages book when we were going through MARR. I had seen it, got pregnant, never got it. It is SO good, so accessible for 4th gr up, highly recommend. I was thinking it would actually make a really good spine to correlate to Omnibus 2.

[Rebecca77]

I'm using all the spines cited on the back of the VP cards. I was going to start having him read Streams of Civilization on his own, answering the comp. questions provided in that. We're only doing the VP worksheets orally, and I haven't been testing. Should the CLP book become my 7th graders main history text? Should I have him work the comp. questions and do the tests? Would that mean forgoing Streams? What would you do?

[PeterPan]

I have Streams, so I could go compare them... Maybe in a little bit, after my walk. In the meantime, you could see if the toc for that CLP book is on cbd or something. I like VP's approach, have used it for years, but I'm such a history dingbat that I still struggle to see the flow and how things connect. The lure of a single spine is just too great to me. But I just got the CLP book Friday (this was two years ago that I first saw it, kick, kick), so I haven't had time to look at it thoroughly. My GUESS is that having one, cohesive spine for MARR would be a dream, that is if the CLP book is thorough and lines up with the cards well. You'll still do the Streams readings. Have you looked at them? The citations tend to be short bits out of Streams, sometimes just two paragraphs. An older student will appreciate more, the connections, the surrounding stuff.

[Melissa in CA]

Well, my DD loved loved loved World Studies with Mrs. Moon this year, and has on her own gone on tangents. She has responded better to this type of history more than living books.

 

Now though, your son got irked at the thought - so don't discount that either! LOL!!

 

I'm looking forward to 8th grade!

 

I unfortunately did not record any of the BJU history classes while my satellite was up and running last year. Because, of course, I had planned to NEVER use a textbook for history! :lol: Now I am sorely wishing I had recorded them 'just in case.' So, if we do BJU, it will be me teaching it. Not nearly as fun as Mrs. Moon, for sure, but I don't think I could bring myself to pay the price for the DVDs. My son will already be using BJU's Life Science and English DVD classes, and he's not real keen on using too many video courses. Now if I had them, I'd definitely use them, but I don't, so I won't (can't). :D

[Melissa in CA]

Well, after all my fussing, I have decided to stay with TOG and make it work. I have looked TOG over extensively, and I now know what I don't like about this year (Y2) compared to last year (Y1). I don't like the Marshall books, especially the Europe one. I just don't care for the writing style, too confusingly disjointed for my tastes. So, I looked into the UG level books and hey, they look pretty darn good! So, I am going to start the year with UG level history, and D level Lit & worldview. I will then reevaluate our history level when we begin Unit 2. ;)

 

I was seriously thinking of going with BJU. It looks good. Simple & straightforward. I like that. But my son and I so enjoyed TOG last year that I don't want to give up without a fight, KWIM? I'll just have to keep it simple. I was also thinking that I could use the Q's that come with the Pop Quizzes and add them in place of some of the SAP Q's. I don't know. I just hate to fork out more money on a curriculum that I may, or may not decide to use, and then sell for a loss...once again. :tongue_smilie: I don't think it would matter that my TOG is brand new, and all the books I have purchase with it are brand new...I'd still take a loss. And shoot, I can't keep buying curriculum and selling it for 1/2 of what I paid for it when I didn't even use it! :lol:

 

So, for now, I am still a happy TOGer! Thanks for letting me vent with you all! :D

[Omma]

Congratulations on making your decision!! I have enjoyed reading all of your TOG posts and you'll have to post updates as you get into this new calendar year. It sounds like a great idea to me to use the UG history books, and I am glad to hear that they look so good. Y2 is the one year in history that we have not hit yet at all, but when we do... it'll be with the UG books! :D

 

I have been pouring over Y1 to get it ready for the fall. It is a lot of work, but I like it because I feel invested in the material and I'm learning to 'own' it more. So I count this as a "win/win" situation... I am happily learning the history I never really learned the first time around (in p.s.) and it should help me to be a better (more involved, more inspired) teacher than I otherwise would've been. It just depends on your goals, but I am realizing that one of my goals in a curriculum it that I am able to enjoy the love of learning right along with my dc, and I think that TOG will help us all to do that! Anyway, I just love the thematic approach to learning history (and other subjects, too, where possible).

 

I hope you have a great year, Melissa in CA, and keep us posted! :grouphug:

 

Brenda

[BlsdMama]

I tried to like textbooks. I couldn't do it. Knowing there was more to the story and that it didn't have to be dry.... Just knowing that history could be so much MORE, left me unwilling to settle.

 

But that's just where I'm at. I think textbooks ARE easier on the teacher. But far less inspiring. Maybe compromise? Do TOG but do less...... After all, like she says, you don't want to cover everything in detail - leave some for later!

[vmsurbat]

We used BJU's World History text as a spine, and it worked fabulously.

 

Since this was for my two youngest, I already had loads of books covering various world history eras.

 

The BJU TM (at least the 7th grade edition, covering MA-Present day) has a suggested pacing. My daughter loved to read from the TM (rather than the student text) because of all the interesting side bars.

 

We picked and chose pages from the Student Activities Manual, trying to get at least one map/week. The Chapter/Unit intro pages have timeline dates, plus there is a page in the back with "what else was going on/invented" dates (I think this page is in the TM) which we used to continue the timelines we started using MoH.

 

I loosely scheduled other books to coordinate with history. I generally have 2 "slots" that I fill with books: 1. History Indepth, and 2. Period Reading

 

The History Indepth slot was for bios and nonfiction books that related to history. Period Reading was for historical fiction and/or other worthwhile classics. To be honest, we get tired with only reading literature that ties into the same time period....

 

Sonlight's Core 7 has some great titles to read in conjunction with BJU's World Studies text...

 

NOTE: This approach did not work so well at the 8th Grade Am. Republic level. After our smashing success with the 7th grade text, I was totally taken back. I've since figured out that because the 8th grade text is just as large or larger but covers a much smaller "chunk" of history, it acted less like a spine and more as a main text.... My children felt like they were reading and rereading the same basic info. We switched to DKs Children's Encyclopedia of American History (or similarly named title) which was more of a true bare-bones spine and added much of Sonlight's Core 100 books. This turned out to be a great move.

 

Thus, for HIGH SCHOOL, I would seriously consider BJU's 10th World History text again, but not their 11th gr. US History. I think Notgrass's Exploring America makes a much better "spine."

 

FWIW,

[ReneeK]

I know I have been wanting to do TOG for a long time. But, everytime I look at it I know that it is way to much for me and our schedule.I look at it every year! I can only Homeschool 4 days a week ,Tuesday is gym class and Friday morning is 1 hr at the hospital and Monday is all morning at the hospital for therapy for my dd until lunch time. I also babysit a 3yr old and her 3 month old sister.

 

As much as I love the history of TOG I know that I couldn't do it yet. Instead I do SL and wanted more history than what they offer. We are going to do Mystery of History also. It covers alot of history. Its classical and chronological. It has timelines and mapping and has activities after each lesson. It has all the information in each lesson for me to just open the book. They have quiz and pretest and test already prepared. I am not going to make the timeline like MOH suggested so I bought the Adams timeline book.

 

Granted I am trying to put all 36 weeks together of school this year so it won't be so difficult with the baby. I have had alot of people tell me I could plan TOG in the summer but, it looks like I would have to schedule just about everything. At least SL some areas I can just look at the schedule in some areas and go.

 

That's my solution for TOG schedule. Maybe when my kids are older and I need to school them together more and the therapy is not so intense I will consider TOG instead of just drool over it. :)

[cmpet7]

You might consider All Ye Lands from the Catholic Textbook Project. They carry other history texts as well.

[Melissa in CA]

.

 

NOTE: This approach did not work so well at the 8th Grade Am. Republic level. After our smashing success with the 7th grade text, I was totally taken back. I've since figured out that because the 8th grade text is just as large or larger but covers a much smaller "chunk" of history, it acted less like a spine and more as a main text.... My children felt like they were reading and rereading the same basic info. We switched to DKs Children's Encyclopedia of American History (or similarly named title) which was more of a true bare-bones spine and added much of Sonlight's Core 100 books. This turned out to be a great move.

 

Thus, for HIGH SCHOOL, I would seriously consider BJU's 10th World History text again, but not their 11th gr. US History. I think Notgrass's Exploring America makes a much better "spine."

 

FWIW,

 

Thanks Vicki, this is good to know! Depending on how well this year goes, I will decide on how to proceed...sell my Y3, or continue on with TOG for 8th. Hopefully, it will be to continue on. I really, really think BJU's W. History with added lit, etc., would make for a fabulous history year though for those of you who are looking for an alternative. There is a for sale thread in which a lady is selling a brand new, still in shrink-wrap, BJU 7th grade history set for 50% off ($80 ppd). I wanted it...bad...and it was MINE, but last night I had to pass on it. I feel terrible for backing out on the sale, that's not like me. :glare: Anyhow, if someone is interested, I suggest you grab it! ;)

 

On another note...

 

I am definitely rethinking the high school years now. I truly doubt I can pull off the Rh work. So perhaps I will use Y3 for 8th grade and then proceed into a traditional high school history rotation using BJU or something similar. That way I will not need to purchase Y4 in DE and be forking out money I cannot recoup when finished. It would be different if I had more children, but this is my last fella, so not being able to resell a TOG DE is something I really need to take into consideration. Of course, finding a used Y4 Classic is always an option. ;) Now I am wondering... Do I hang on to my Y1 in case we do Rh in 10th or sell it now and be done with it? Hmmmm....

[Melissa in CA]

I know I have been wanting to do TOG for a long time. But, everytime I look at it I know that it is way to much for me and our schedule.I look at it every year! I can only Homeschool 4 days a week ,Tuesday is gym class and Friday morning is 1 hr at the hospital and Monday is all morning at the hospital for therapy for my dd until lunch time. I also babysit a 3yr old and her 3 month old sister.

 

As much as I love the history of TOG I know that I couldn't do it yet. Instead I do SL and wanted more history than what they offer. We are going to do Mystery of History also. It covers alot of history. Its classical and chronological. It has timelines and mapping and has activities after each lesson. It has all the information in each lesson for me to just open the book. They have quiz and pretest and test already prepared. I am not going to make the timeline like MOH suggested so I bought the Adams timeline book.

 

Granted I am trying to put all 36 weeks together of school this year so it won't be so difficult with the baby. I have had alot of people tell me I could plan TOG in the summer but, it looks like I would have to schedule just about everything. At least SL some areas I can just look at the schedule in some areas and go.

 

That's my solution for TOG schedule. Maybe when my kids are older and I need to school them together more and the therapy is not so intense I will consider TOG instead of just drool over it. :)

 

Renee,

 

Your dc are still very young. You have plenty of time in which to teach history. Take your time and just enjoy the history story. ;)

 

I think you'll find many of the quizzes/tests in MOH a bit difficult for a 6 yo, I personally wouldn't use them at that age. My favorite at that age was SL Core 1 with SOTW 1 and Act. Guide, and then SL Core 2 with SOTW 2 and Act. Guide. When completing Core 1, my older boys were at the same time using MOH. My youngest preferred SOTW over MOH. I think MOH is fascinating, but that fascination didn't transfer over to my little fella. He was too young to really care about the history connections and that such and such was happening at the same time as such in such. He couldn't have cared less. :lol: But he loved, LOVED the SOTW mapping, coloring pages, and stories, etc.

 

Frankly, to be honest, I think TOG would be far less intense than the SL/MOH combo you are currently planning out. The LG levels of TOG are really quite simple. So, if after this year you feel burn-out, you may want to reconsider TOG, or go another route altogether and get a Winter Promise package. :-) We used that for one year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think the one thing we have to watch as teachers is burn out. I often remind myself that if a program I may be sick of is producing results for my children I have to stick to what is best for them. (Even when I am constantly looking for the next best thing.)

 

It can be very hard to distinguish what has become dull for the teacher vs. dull for the student.

 

That said-if there is something better for the students than what you have and you are able to get it--go for it.

[Carol in Cal.]

It has a very definite point of view, and one that is taught as fact.

 

Very conservative, very fundie, kind of moral majority-ish. Even though I agree with these stances to a large extent, the way that they are inserted into the history text at places is alarming and disturbing to me. If that would bother you, I suggest looking the textbooks over very carefully before you make a final decision.

[PeterPan]

Well Melissa, I'm bummed, but only because I was hoping you'd be the guinea pig and see if people like us could be happy with that approach. Oh well. :) With TOG you have a known quantity and known results, which is why you're uncertain to leave it. If you leave and get easier planning without the same results, you won't be happy. That's actually the same logic that has kept me with VP, even though I've managed to spit and fuss my fair share too. :)

[ReneeK]

Renee,

 

Your dc are still very young. You have plenty of time in which to teach history. Take your time and just enjoy the history story. ;)

 

I think you'll find many of the quizzes/tests in MOH a bit difficult for a 6 yo, I personally wouldn't use them at that age. My favorite at that age was SL Core 1 with SOTW 1 and Act. Guide, and then SL Core 2 with SOTW 2 and Act. Guide. When completing Core 1, my older boys were at the same time using MOH. My youngest preferred SOTW over MOH. I think MOH is fascinating, but that fascination didn't transfer over to my little fella. He was too young to really care about the history connections and that such and such was happening at the same time as such in such. He couldn't have cared less. :lol: But he loved, LOVED the SOTW mapping, coloring pages, and stories, etc.

 

Frankly, to be honest, I think TOG would be far less intense than the SL/MOH combo you are currently planning out. The LG levels of TOG are really quite simple. So, if after this year you feel burn-out, you may want to reconsider TOG, or go another route altogether and get a Winter Promise package. :-) We used that for one year and thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

I am not planning on using all the test this year. I am making it very light year with the MOH. I have never looked at Winter Promise??? Thanks! give me something else to put on my wish list, if I like it!LOL! As far as TOG goes I know I will consider it when my ds gets a little older. My dd loves mapping and I will make that fun but not get into all the details. What is the Act. Guide?

We have enjoyed SL over all and I know that my kiddos are young and history isn't going to stick much now.

[Guest Salve Regina HSA]

I was just looking up BJUP Heritage Studies in RR catalog. I am so bummed, it distinctly says "I would not advise using the curriculum if you are Catholic." It must present the worldview from a perspective that Catholics must not agree with. Darn it! I was so hoping to get out of ToG.

 

I think my son learned alot from ToG, but like someone said, it is so hard to search for the answers, plan, etc. As much as I appreciate the discussion - for me it seems to be an ideal - and one that doesn't seem to get done. It is the one thing that I am not looking forward to for the fall.

 

I love my Faith; however, I don't need to have something strictly religious in nature. But, of course, I don't want our Faith to be challenged to our children. Any suggestions for the Catholics out here - my sons are in 8th and 4th.

 

I think that this problem is a big one for many Catholics out there. TOG is more respectful than some, but it is obviously not Catholic in its presentation. Have you looked at http://www.rchistory.com/? It is a four-year (although only the first two volumes are currently ready) program from a Roman Catholic perspective. As an historian, it still doesn't quite suit my needs, from the perspective of both history and Catholicism, which is why I am currently in the beginning stages of writing my own Catholic history curriculum (the time - must find the time!), but it is certainly a very good alternative to other programs out there. It is certainly worth a look!

Edited June 29, 2009 by Salve Regina HSA

[Catwoman]

One thing BJU does not have is a 4 year history cycle. But, does that really matter in the scheme of things? And BJU does not use lots of history books. Again, does that really matter? :confused:

 

I had to laugh when I read that part of your post, because I could have written it myself!

 

Honestly, how many of us grew up following the 4-year history cycle in elementary and middle school and reading 50 living books about the American Revolution so we could understand everything from several different perspectives and so we would "feel" what it was like to have lived at that time? We had a textbook and we learned whatever they taught us in school. And -- miracle of miracles -- we survived it, and some of us even (gasp!) liked it.

 

It seems to me that many homeschoolers seem to go a little hog-wild when it comes to history, and some really overemphasize its importance in the early years, sometimes to the point of neglecting the "reading, writing, and arithmetic" skills.

 

Don't get me wrong -- I think history has its place in our homeschools, but I think you nailed it when you said you didn't want it to be a hill to die on, and I think that whatever you end up using next year, it will be just fine.

 

That said, I'm still planning ds's history for next year, and of course, it's taking me far longer to do that, than it is for any of his other subjects... :tongue_smilie:

 

Cat

[Melissa in CA]

Well Melissa, I'm bummed, but only because I was hoping you'd be the guinea pig and see if people like us could be happy with that approach.

 

:lol: So sorry to disappoint. ;)

 

I've just finished picking out our TOG books for Units 1 and 2. I am soooo much happier now that I have realized the UG level history books are still perfectly fine to use. For some reason I figured since my son is going in 7th, that he would be straight D level. Silly me. I'm still using some of the D level history, but exchanging a couple books for some of the UG level. Ah, such relief. Still, there is that unknown BJU quality that bugs me...that 'what if?' What if BJU is the better choice? What if, what if, what if! Argh! I was especially liking how BJU was written and how easy it would be to outline. In fact, if I were to find a super duper cheap student text I might just buy it...and then maybe use it for outlining purposes only. ;):w00t:

 

By the by, I just wanted to make it clear that it's not all of the Marshall books I dislike, it's just mainly The Story of Europe and Our Island Story that are bothersome. This Country of Ours is far more enjoyable a read, and Our Island Story isn't too terribly bad, though I plan to skip part of it...but The Story of Europe? :ack2: Skipping as much of it as I can.

[Catwoman]

I was especially liking how BJU was written and how easy it would be to outline. In fact, if I were to find a super duper cheap student text I might just buy it...and then maybe use it for outlining purposes only. ;):w00t:

 

That's a great idea! :001_smile:

 

Cat

[profmom]

By the by, I just wanted to make it clear that it's not all of the Marshall books I dislike, it's just mainly The Story of Europe and Our Island Story that are bothersome. This Country of Ours is far more enjoyable a read, and Our Island Story isn't too terribly bad, though I plan to skip part of it...but The Story of Europe? :ack2: Skipping as much of it as I can.

 

You may already know this, but Our Island Story is available as a free audio at librivox.org. This Country of Ours is there too, but not The Story of Europe. My dd really enjoyed Our Island Story last year in 6th (but didn't like the other two as well)!

[Melissa in CA]

You may already know this, but Our Island Story is available as a free audio at librivox.org. This Country of Ours is there too, but not The Story of Europe. My dd really enjoyed Our Island Story last year in 6th (but didn't like the other two as well)!

 

Hey, thanks! No, I didn't know about this site. I am currently downloading Our Island Story. ;)

[profmom]

Story of the Middle Ages is there too! :)

[Melissa in CA]

Story of the Middle Ages is there too! :)

 

Cool! :D

[classicHSmom]

 

By the by, I just wanted to make it clear that it's not all of the Marshall books I dislike, it's just mainly The Story of Europe and Our Island Story that are bothersome. This Country of Ours is far more enjoyable a read, and Our Island Story isn't too terribly bad, though I plan to skip part of it...but The Story of Europe? :ack2: Skipping as much of it as I can.

 

What don't you like about the Marshall books? I have yet to encounter them, but will have a D level student in a few years; I'd love a heads-up!

[Melissa in CA]

What don't you like about the Marshall books? I have yet to encounter them, but will have a D level student in a few years; I'd love a heads-up!

 

Actually, the more I read Our Island Story the more I like it, so it is going to stay in our curriculum for the year. And I do like This Country of Ours.I really just don't like The Story of Europe. I can't say exactly why though? :confused: You may read it and really like it, so it's no doubt a personal preference thing. I just find it rather confusing for some reason. Perhaps it gets better as the book goes on, but after reading the first several chapters I was no wiser than when I started. :confused: In fact, a lot of the time I was thinking huh? Who? What? Where? :001_huh: It wasn't worth the effort and I KNEW my ds would get lost in all the names and places.

 

The core UG book seems much more our speed. It is The Story of Middle Ages by Samuel Harding. The flow of the story is much easier to follow for me than Marshall's book. But again, it's probably just me. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. ;)

[MarinesWife]

I

 

I love my Faith; however, I don't need to have something strictly religious in nature. But, of course, I don't want our Faith to be challenged to our children. Any suggestions for the Catholics out here - my sons are in 8th and 4th.

 

http://www.motherofdivinegrace.org/index.cfm

[Quiver0f10]

http://www.motherofdivinegrace.org/index.cfm

 

Waving hi :seeya:

[angela&4boys]

Wow! What a lengthy thread!

 

I confess I didn't read through all the responses, but judging from your initial post I think you answered your own question. :)

 

Not that I'm partial or anything :001_unsure:, but like OhElizabeth, I have found BJU materials to be excellent. We'll be using them for both science and history next year.

 

Fwiw, I've had the very same feelings with regard to TOG (only viewing the samples) as well as history in general. I let it dictate our home-school for too long.

 

Perhaps BJU with TOG literature suggestions would give you the best of both worlds?

 

Blessings in your decision,

[samba]

It's funny you mention that. My draw to TOG has always been the other elements it incorporates...worldview, literature, bible survey, philosophy (my dh, the philosophy major, is chomping at the bit to get started with our dd9, LOL.) History is actually the subject I am least concerned with, hence my ambivalence about TOG. My most recent thoughts are that I may use the Spielvogel text for history, geography and vocab as dictated in the alternate resources and use TOG for everything else. That's crazy, isn't it?

 

Carolyn