Any non-Christians here involved in Boy Scouts?

[Perry]

I'd like to hear about your experience. PM me if you think that would be better than a post.

 

Thanks.

[KingM]

I had a good experience in Scouts as a boy, but I was being raised in a religious family where it was expected. I rose to the rank of Eagle scout and had many good experiences, highlighted by a trip to the National Jamboree in Virginia when I was fourteen.

 

I am not religious now, but I don't regret my time in scouts at all. My boys, however, have not been particularly interested. My current nine year-old gave cubs a try, but grew bored.

[lgm]

Our troop is in an area with a lot of different cultures & has non-Christian members. It is not a problem, most likely b/c of the Scoutmaster's leadership. The troop is chartered by a community organization. Most boys think it's cool to learn about others beliefs. Most scouting is local.

 

Do you have a particular question?

[Dobela]

I have several friends taht are not Christian that are part of scouts. Each one has said that it really depends on the den leader. Some are more religious than others. Many are not religious at all. They have avoided joining the dens that are tied to churches more than others as well.

[Perry]

 

Do you have a particular question?

 

Not really. Just wondering whether people have had good or bad experiences.

[Kate in Arabia]

My kids aren't involved in scouts, but back when we were living in the States there was a troop that was semi-attached to one of the local masjids. I knew some Muslim women who organized a girl scout group for local Muslim girls. So I think it would really depend on the troop.

[Unicorn.]

So I think it would really depend on the troop.

 

Kate's right, it depends on the troop. And it doesn't matter if you are christian or not, it still depends on the troop. When my son was in cubs, our pack was sponsored by a Protestant church, and our cubmaster was Jewish. For most of us, that didn't even factor into anything, but one mom thought it was wrong. I liked the fact that my son was exposed to different cultures and never heard anyone but the one mom say anything against it.

 

You do have to have a belief in A God, and there are religious requirements that have to be fulfilled, but the religion is yours and shouldn't matter to the troop as a whole. Our troop does have a prayer at the end of each meeting, but it is pretty generic. hth

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'd like to hear about your experience. PM me if you think that would be better than a post.

 

Thanks.

 

He is a nice kid who has lots of good ideas about what to do with the troop. He doesn't eat beef, so we have to make sure that we have alternatives for him when we camp (like ground turkey in lasagne instead of beef).

 

His whole family is into scouting and his mom and sister are two of the driving forces behind the newly formed Venturing Crew.

 

I personally think that it's improtant not to assume that other people know about holidays that would represent scheduling conflicts. If you speak up ahead of time, then there is an opportunity to work things out. For example, our last Blue and Gold Banquet (Cub Scouts) was on a Friday in Lent. We made sure that we had lots of non meat options available. Or as another example, a homeschool group I know of scheduled their Easter party for the Thursday before Easter, not realizing that for some Christian traditions, this was a quite solemn day that was not compatible with dying eggs and searching for candy. But for someone of my background, that date isn't anything particular.

 

There is also a strong tendency in modern American life to treat holidays (both sacred and secular) as days of freedome and liberty, rather than solemn reflection. As a scouting leader, I'd appreciate a family giving me a list of dates at the beginning of the year that were holy days when they would not be able to participate in scouting activities. That would really help me avoid scheduling some major outing on one of those days.

[Audrey]

I'd like to hear about your experience. PM me if you think that would be better than a post.

 

Thanks.

 

 

I think it absolutely depends on the troop and the people running it. Ds tried out Cub Scouts, but didn't like it much and didn't care to continue. That wasn't a reflection on the troop, though -- just that it wasn't a thing he wanted to do. The group was not very big on outdoorsy stuff (believe it or not). Ds was more interested in 4-H anyway.

 

The troop we were involved with was sponsored by the local Catholic Church and most of the kids & families were Catholic or other Christian denomination. However, when I asked if it would matter if ds chose to bow out of religious activities, I was told that was fine. There were a couple of others who practiced no particular religion who did the same. They still closed the meetings with a prayer, but ds just did the respectful, bow-the-head-and-say-nothing thing. It was not a problem. For the pledge, ds just said it, but the God part didn't mean anything to him. There were no other religious requirements that I can recall.

 

If ds had wanted to continue, I would not have had a problem continuing with this particular troop. I can't say whether I'd have had a similar sentiment toward another troop, though.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Audrey

[fivetails]

 

You do have to have a belief in A God,

 

Do you, though? I'm a Christian now, as an adult, but wasn't as a child - my father & stepmother were/are Atheists and that's how my siblings and I were raised for many years. Anyway, I went through Brownies & Girl Guides and we had "God" in the promises and stuff - but there was no *rule* that you HAD to have any sort of belief. If "God" in the promise meant something to you, then it did.. if it didn't, then it was just a word in the promise that you memorized... I know that isn't Scouts, but it's sorta the same thing except for girls, far as I know...

[Laura Corin]

We were in US boys scouts when we lived in China. It was a very religious troop and they followed the BS rules that one had to have a faith. It was awkward for the boys and I'm really glad to have moved to British scouts, where the religious involvement is very much a form of words (something that non-religious Brits are very used to glossing over, due to the intertwining of church and state in the UK).

 

Laura

[Peek a Boo]

Do you, though? ... Anyway, I went through Brownies & Girl Guides and we had "God" in the promises and stuff - but there was no *rule* that you HAD to have any sort of belief. If "God" in the promise meant something to you, then it did.. if it didn't, then it was just a word in the promise that you memorized... I know that isn't Scouts, but it's sorta the same thing except for girls, far as I know...

 

Yes, BSA requires a "duty to God."

This is a Very Big difference between BSA and GSA for many people. It is part of what led to the inception of American Heritage Girls.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes, BSA requires a "duty to God."

This is a Very Big difference between BSA and GSA for many people. It is part of what led to the inception of American Heritage Girls.

 

On the other hand, other than perhaps asking a scout what Duty to God or Reverent means to him, I don't think that this come up in most troops. There isn't a right or wrong answer to the questions if they were asked in a board of review. Religious observations and religious programs are optional (ie, Scout Sunday/Scout Sabbath and the Religious Award programs).

 

A scout would pretty much have to announce that they could no longer follow the scout oath or scout law to have this become an issue. To be honest, we asked a couple scouts what reverent meant on boards at camp and few of them even knew the meaning of the word. This didn't mean they didn't pass their boards. It just meant that we told them that they should think about the meaning of what they were saying.

 

I will add, however, that I personally shy away from packs/troops that are chartered by groups that I don't have some level of sympathy with. So I generally look past those chartered by certain religious groups that I don't want my kids mentored under and would look closely at public schools. But it totally depends on the troop and the adult leadership. And there is nothing wrong with deciding a troop isn't really a good fit and transfering to one that is better.

[lgm]

Scouts wanting to earn the Eagle rank do need to supply information regarding how they fulfill their religious obligations. They do not have to belong to a church or a formal religion.

[fivetails]

Do you, though? ... Anyway, I went through Brownies & Girl Guides and we had "God" in the promises and stuff - but there was no *rule* that you HAD to have any sort of belief. If "God" in the promise meant something to you, then it did.. if it didn't, then it was just a word in the promise that you memorized... I know that isn't Scouts, but it's sorta the same thing except for girls, far as I know...

 

Yes, BSA requires a "duty to God."

This is a Very Big difference between BSA and GSA for many people. It is part of what led to the inception of American Heritage Girls.

 

Yeah but.. that was in our promise too. It went something like: "I promise, on my honour, to do my best, to do my duty, to God, the Queen, and my country." ...and then something about helping others... I can't remember the rest...(it's been, umm, a while. :tongue_smilie: )

 

It wasn't like they stood there and demanded to know exactly what you thought "God" meant... I can't ever remember being asked anything...it was a thing you had to memorize, just like the national anthem in school....

[Renee in NC]

You cannot earn the Arrow of Light in Cub Scouts without some sort of religious affiliation. You have to either earn the religious award for your religion or participate in your religious community with specific requiements for attendance, conference with religious leader, etc.

[Dirtroad]

We have a Hindu in our scout troup and several non church families. It is a great bunch of boys. We also have Catholic and very conservative protestants. It is a true melting pot.

 

Scouts is not a Christian organization, but many are helped by churches alllowing them to use the facilities/grounds for meetings & equipment storage. They have a faith element to some of the organization, but it is a part of the entire community concept and such.

 

They do have a faith class... but I think there are about 20 faiths recognized & the class is optional.

[fivetails]

You cannot earn the Arrow of Light in Cub Scouts without some sort of religious affiliation. You have to either earn the religious award for your religion or participate in your religious community with specific requiements for attendance, conference with religious leader, etc.

 

I'm assuming that's a badge? A non-religious scout could just pick a different badge to work on, couldn't they? I couldn't do the pet care badge - I remember that one, because I *wanted* it! LOL - because we didn't have any pets... There were lots that people could do and some that they couldn't, for whatever reason... we just picked what we wanted to do....far as I remember, anyway... I was just a kid. ;)

[TravelingChris]

The Boy Scout Troop were my son earned his Eagle was meeting at a Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints. We are conservative Christians and had no problem with that. Then the one he finished up in had members of various Christians, LDS, and possibly other religions, since we were overseas and it was sponsored by the military. I also believe that maybe some Hindus and others were in one of his cub scout troops.

 

In Florida, there was an active scouting program at the Unitarian Universalist church and I am certain that they were comfortable with non-Christians.

[Renee in NC]

I'm assuming that's a badge? A non-religious scout could just pick a different badge to work on, couldn't they? I couldn't do the pet care badge - I remember that one, because I *wanted* it! LOL - because we didn't have any pets... There were lots that people could do and some that they couldn't, for whatever reason... we just picked what we wanted to do....far as I remember, anyway... I was just a kid. ;)

 

No, it isn't a badge. It is the highest rank in Cub Scouts. It isn't a required rank to go to Boy Scouts, but it is the culmination of all the work a Cub Scout does. The Wolf badge (a rank) has a relgious requirement, as does Bear and Webelos. (These are ranks like Daisy, Brownie, Junior, etc.)

 

Boy Scouts does not have a religious requirement to its ranks that I can see (we haven't been all the way through Boy Scouts yet, though.)

 

You could participate with no problem, but you can't advance in ranks without some religious component (and it doesn't matter which one.)

[PiCO]

Yeah but.. that was in our promise too. It went something like: "I promise, on my honour, to do my best, to do my duty, to God, the Queen, and my country." ...and then something about helping others... I can't remember the rest...(it's been, umm, a while. :tongue_smilie: )

 

It wasn't like they stood there and demanded to know exactly what you thought "God" meant... I can't ever remember being asked anything...it was a thing you had to memorize, just like the national anthem in school....

 

Girl Scouts are allowed to leave God out of their promise. Atheists and pagans are specifically welcome in the national body of girl scouts. (Although this is not true in some local groups.)

 

Atheists are specifically not welcome in boy scouts. There have been lawsuits about this, the Boy Scouts won because they are a private organization.

 

Sure, you could skirt around it and be involved anyway if you were an Atheist. But I don't understand why anyone would want to join a club where they are not welcome, and lie about their beliefs to be there.

[KarenNC]

I'm assuming that's a badge? A non-religious scout could just pick a different badge to work on, couldn't they? I couldn't do the pet care badge - I remember that one, because I *wanted* it! LOL - because we didn't have any pets... There were lots that people could do and some that they couldn't, for whatever reason... we just picked what we wanted to do....far as I remember, anyway... I was just a kid. ;)

 

In discussing GS with others who are involved in BS (and some who are involved in both) over the past year since I became a leader in GS, I have come to discover that the two groups work *very* differently in terms of their organization, requirements to advance and how those are earned, attitude toward religion, etc. In many cases it really is comparing apples to oranges to apply things learned about GS to BS, which I did not realize before these in-depth discussions. This is not to say one is superior to the other, just quite different. There are things I wish GS did more like BS and there are things I'm glad they don't.

 

From what I have been told, the Arrow of Light is somewhat similar to earning your Bronze Award as a Junior GS, a very big deal that requires a lot of work and carries a lot of prestige. I believe it's the only Cub Scout award that can be worn on the Boy Scout uniform (but I might be mistaken about that). The Bronze in GS is the Junior GS version of what for Cadettes is the Silver Award and Seniors the Gold Award----the Gold Award being roughly similar to the Eagle level of Boy Scouts.

 

Again, based on conversations, I know that folks in our area have had very different experiences in BS re: religion depending on the leaders (the same is true of GS from what I understand). In some cases, it was an issue of the group leaders adding requirements or expectations to those required by BS because they (and many of the parents) wanted a more faith-specific-based experience---something I believe they aren't supposed to do in a perfect world, but occasionally happens. Those particular leaders also had difficulty with dealing with a lesser known religion (ie not Christian or Jewish, in this particular case) for some of the rank advancements, as I understand it.

Edited June 23, 2009 by KarenNC

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

From what I have been told, the Arrow of Light is ... the only Cub Scout award that can be worn on the Boy Scout uniform (but I might be mistaken about that).

 

 

 

You are correct. It is the only award that carries over to Boy Scouts.

[Peek a Boo]

You are correct. It is the only award that carries over to Boy Scouts.

 

the Religious award/knot can also be worn on the Boy Scout uniform and adult leader uniform.

 

 

.....folks in our area have had very different experiences in BS re: religion depending on the leaders.... In some cases, it was an issue of the group leaders adding requirements or expectations to those required by BS because they (and many of the parents) wanted a more faith-specific-based experience---something I believe they aren't supposed to do in a perfect world, but occasionally happens.

 

They aren't supposed to do that in an IMperfect world either.

I eliminated a troop from our consideration because the Scoutmaster would NOT pass a boy in his Board of Review unless he was regularly attending a traditional church building. he spelled this out in their troop handbook.

 

And yes [to reiterate] your "Duty to God" is supposed to be addressed through all ranks, or at least, at the Eagle BoR. Leaders are encouraged to simply ask some version of "How are you fulfilling your duty to God" and basically accept whatever answer they are given [except "I'm not" :) ].

[Spy Car]

I had a miserable time in Cub Scouts, and eventually quit over the issue of coerced prayer.

[Peek a Boo]

I had a miserable time in Cub Scouts, and eventually quit over the issue of coerced prayer.

 

i don't blame you. i quit a Christian co-op over a coerced devotion time. ;)

[Spy Car]

i don't blame you. i quit a Christian co-op over a coerced devotion time. ;)

 

What the heck is "devotion time"?

[Peek a Boo]

What the heck is "devotion time"?

 

Their idea of skirting a "no proselytization" rule. Supposed to be a sweet time to prepare our hearts for the day, but turned into a 10 minute preaching that included things I completely disagreed with.

 

eta: and your attendance was required if you wanted to participate in co-op. supposedly because of "announcement" issues. But even after they started posting the announcements on the board, they still saw fit to require attendance. ugh.

 

I left. vocally. :D

 

still working on that meek and quiet spirit thing.... ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

They aren't supposed to do that in an IMperfect world either.

I eliminated a troop from our consideration because the Scoutmaster would NOT pass a boy in his Board of Review unless he was regularly attending a traditional church building. he spelled this out in their troop handbook.

 

And yes [to reiterate] your "Duty to God" is supposed to be addressed through all ranks, or at least, at the Eagle BoR. Leaders are encouraged to simply ask some version of "How are you fulfilling your duty to God" and basically accept whatever answer they are given [except "I'm not" :) ].

 

I would see the spelled out requirement defining religious participation as indicating that the troop's adult leadership wasn't following BSA program guidelines. I would not be surprised to see them adding requirements in the category of what is active or scout spirit (also not supposed to happen).

 

And while there is a place for discussion of reverent or duty to God in Boards of Review among other times, there isn't a right or wrong answer. It isn't the place of the adult leader to determine if enough Duty to God or enough Reverence is happening. It is their place to help the scout reflect upon how he might achieve these things under the aegis of his own faith.

[Peek a Boo]

It isn't the place of the adult leader to determine if enough Duty to God or enough Reverence is happening. It is their place to help the scout reflect upon how he might achieve these things under the aegis of his own faith.

 

Amen.

or I agree.

:D

[Sebastian (a lady)]

They do have a faith class... but I think there are about 20 faiths recognized & the class is optional.

 

The religious emblems program is an example of an award recognized by BSA but NOT controlled by it.

 

The general clearing house for info on religious emblems is PRAY. PRAY produces some religious emblems program material, but also links to the info on many more.

 

FWIW, these religious emblems programs are often open to any youth of that faith, not just to those involved in scouting. Scout leaders are encouraged to make presentations on the general religious emblems program and to let scouts know of any religious emblem classes in their area. But the actual instruction is conducted by a religious leader, not necessarily a scout leader.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Sebastian (a lady)
More info and a correction (Thanks PaB)

[Laura Corin]

You cannot earn the Arrow of Light in Cub Scouts without some sort of religious affiliation. You have to either earn the religious award for your religion or participate in your religious community with specific requiements for attendance, conference with religious leader, etc.

 

This is the wording:

Do two of these:

 

* Attend the mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs. Tell your family and your Webelos den leader what you learned.

* Discuss with your family and Webelos den leader how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and what character-building traits your religious beliefs have in common with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

* With your religious leader, discuss and make a plan to do two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things for a month.

* For at least a month, pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group.

* Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel.

* List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs.

 

Calvin meditated reverently each day, thinking hard about what it was to be a good person and how his heroes' examples should be followed. He also discussed with his family and leader how his religious beliefs (religious beliefs=beliefs about religion) fit with scout ideals.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

 

But the actual instruction is conducted by a religious leader, not necessarily a scout leader.

 

I said that I was fine with this happening but that, as Calvin had different beliefs, he'd just be sitting quietly at the back. They decided, in the end, that it was not kind to Calvin to put him in that position, so they moved the class out of den time.

 

Laura

[Renee in NC]

This is the wording:

Do two of these:

 

* Attend the mosque, church, synagogue, temple, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs. Tell your family and your Webelos den leader what you learned.

* Discuss with your family and Webelos den leader how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, and what character-building traits your religious beliefs have in common with the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

* With your religious leader, discuss and make a plan to do two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things for a month.

* For at least a month, pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group.

* Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel.

* List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs.

 

Calvin meditated reverently each day, thinking hard about what it was to be a good person and how his heroes' examples should be followed. He also discussed with his family and leader how his religious beliefs (religious beliefs=beliefs about religion) fit with scout ideals.

 

Laura

 

Right, there is not a requirement about what type of religious beliefs, but you can't ignore religion all together. In your case, you do have a religion. Someone who truly has no religion could not meet those requirements, coule they?

[Renee in NC]

I said that I was fine with this happening but that, as Calvin had different beliefs, he'd just be sitting quietly at the back. They decided, in the end, that it was not kind to Calvin to put him in that position, so they moved the class out of den time.

 

Laura

 

I am glad they did that! My ds ended up doing an emblem that was not of his religion. It wasn't a problem and it made him want to complete his faith formation even more.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I have found this thread to be quite interesting. I am wondering though, why berate an organization for having certain beliefs and then developing a program that upholds those beliefs? No one is forced to join Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. It is something boys and their families choose to do. If you do not believe in the ideals of the BSA than don't participate. There are other organizations out there that might be a better fit, like the Young Marines or DeMolay (links are below).

http://www.youngmarines.com/

http://www.demolay.org/aboutdemolay/index.php

[Granny_Weatherwax]

the Religious award/knot can also be worn on the Boy Scout uniform and adult leader uniform.

 

Thank you for sharing that information. I did not know that.

 

I went to Meritbadge.com and looked up the following information(bold print is theirs not mine):

 

Many religious-faith groups have programs of intensive religious education for individual Tiger Cubs, Wolf, Bear, Webelos, Boy Scouts, and Venturers. Religious Emblems are designed to recognize youth and adults who demonstrate faith, observe the creeds or principles of the faith, and give service. Religious emblems are not Scouting awards; they are presented by religious groups to boys who earn them.

The Religious Emblems programs are administered by various religious institutions and recognized, but not sponsored, by the BSA. These are generally recognized by a medal and an embroidered square knot. In some denominations, four different awards may be available. For instance, here are the non-denominational Protestant Award programs from PRAY Publishing:

The silver square knot on a purple background No. 05007 is permanently displayed on the uniform above the left pocket to denote that the wearer has received the corresponding award as a youth. If he earns additional youth religious awards for various levels, he can wear up to four different devices on one knot, but only one silver on purple knot is worn. If a religious award is earned as a Cub Scout, the youth knot and devices may be worn on all subsequent uniforms: Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Venturing, and Scouters. Adult leaders can also be recognized with an Adult Religious Emblem which is a purple knot on a silver background No. 05014.

Some programs allow Girl Scouts or youth not in Scouting to participate in these same programs and be presented with the same medals but only a member of the Boy Scouts America can wear the BSA knots.

The medals are usually only worn on special occasions, pinned immediately above the top of the left pocket flap of the uniform shirt.

Youth may earn an emblem whether or not they are members of a unit operated by a religious organization. The intent of the program is to work directly with your own religious leader or, in some cases, a layperson designated by that religious leader.

 

Here is the link to the site: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Religious_Emblems

[lgm]

Right, there is not a requirement about what type of religious beliefs, but you can't ignore religion all together. In your case, you do have a religion. Someone who truly has no religion could not meet those requirements, coule they?

 

They don't have to identify themselves with a particular religion. Belief in God is enough. The parent can serve as the religious leader if they don't belong to a church. The scout could then choose two of the options from #2,3,4,5 and 6 to satisfy the award req't, depending on their beliefs.

[Laura Corin]

Right, there is not a requirement about what type of religious beliefs, but you can't ignore religion all together. In your case, you do have a religion. Someone who truly has no religion could not meet those requirements, coule they?

 

We discussed Calvin's religious beliefs, ie, his belief about religion. His belief about religion is atheism.

 

Laura

[Peek a Boo]

We discussed Calvin's religious beliefs, ie, his belief about religion. His belief about religion is atheism.

 

Laura

 

 

Discuss with your family and Webelos den leader how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath

 

those requirements must be completed with adherence to the Scout Oath, which includes "to do my duty to God." And throughout scouting materials duty to God is never defined as quiet respect and/or tolerance that others might believe in a deity/deities: it demands an active faith in that deity/deities. "Active" being subjective. ;)

 

For at least a month, pray or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group.

 

note that it is by your family AND....religious group. It was my understanding that atheists denounce other religions trying to pin them as a church or "religious group.."

???:confused:

In order to receive the arrow of light, you would have to have accepted atheism AS a church, temple, mosque, synagogue, or religious group.

 

I'm sure that many leaders want to award scouts that really try to fulfill the requirements in the book, but I think it does a disservice to both the BSA and atheists for an atheist to accept an award that expresses an oath to a duty to God.

eta: My Wolf Scout was awarded the religious emblem for God and Me, but i had to turn it down since we never completed the class. manymanymany leaders are awarding emblems and badges when scouts have not Done Their Best to adhere to the spirit of the Oath and Law.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Laura Corin]

I have found this thread to be quite interesting. I am wondering though, why berate an organization for having certain beliefs and then developing a program that upholds those beliefs?

 

We were living overseas and we wanted the boys to have Western friends as well as Chinese friends. I don't berate the organisation, but I don't hesitate to say that I do not agree with everything it stands for and I wish we had had other options.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Religious: 'forming part of someone's worship of, or belief about, a supernatural being'. Calvin's belief about a supernatural being is that there is not one. That is his religious belief.

 

God: 'a thing accorded supreme importance.' Calvin defines god as 'a feeling of oneness with and charity towards humanity'. His membership of charitable organisations fulfils the need for a religious group for this god.

 

To my knowledge, BSA does not define god, nor what a religious group might be. The scout leader was very happy to have us, I think because he hoped that Calvin was a target for conversion.

 

Laura

[Peek a Boo]

Religious: 'forming part of someone's worship of, or belief about, a supernatural being'. Calvin's belief about a supernatural being is that there is not one. That is his religious belief.

 

God: 'a thing accorded supreme importance.' Calvin defines god as 'a feeling of oneness with and charity towards humanity'. His membership of charitable organisations fulfils the need for a religious group for this god.

 

To my knowledge, BSA does not define god, nor what a religious group might be. The scout leader was very happy to have us, I think because he hoped that Calvin was a target for conversion.

 

Laura

 

I understand the terms can be spun to fit any number of interpretations.

But the oath itself says that you are promising to do your duty TO God.

 

I still think it does a disservice to both the BSA and atheists in general. But it's certainly your call.

[TravelingChris]

As a Christian and a mother of a Eagle Scout, I would not have had a problem with Laura and her son with what they did with the requirements. Obviously they are not Christians. But they do have an ethical system and could, in theory, meet with others who believe as they do. There are established groups of humanists. I, for one, tend to veiw them if not as religions, as religious equivalents. Buddhists can be Boy Scouts and they do not believe in a higher being, per se. Boy Scouts is not a religious organization and there are no religious tests. Anyone who can refrain from disparaging religious beliefs and has a belief system in place - be it that we have a moral obligation to help humanity or some such thing, will most likely have no problems at all. Now each different Boy Scout troop has different leaders. You may have to look around and check several groups.

[Peek a Boo]

Buddhists can be Boy Scouts and they do not believe in a higher being, per se. Boy Scouts is not a religious organization and there are no religious tests.

 

The "religious test" in BSA is the oath itself: to do your duty to God.

 

Buddhists can be Scouts -- there are always troops and leaders that will be willing to look the other way and let core principles slide, esp "for the children."

 

http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp

Youth and Adult Volunteers

Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders.

[Peek a Boo]

As a Christian and a mother of a Eagle Scout, I would not have had a problem with Laura and her son with what they did with the requirements.

 

As a Christian and mother of hopefully 4 eventual Eagles, I would have a problem with an atheist or agnostic in BSA.

 

When my atheist friend wanted to place her boys in Scouting and was trying to spin the wording too, I advised her to stick w/ something that let her freely support her beliefs and we started a 4-H group. being a loving and supporting friend does not mean we have to look the other way when values are being twisted.

[Peek a Boo]

Buddhists can be Boy Scouts and they do not believe in a higher being, per se. Boy Scouts is not a religious organization and there are no religious tests.

 

correction:

SOME Buddhists can join BSA.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/bsa_0.htm

[PiCO]

We were living overseas and we wanted the boys to have Western friends as well as Chinese friends. I don't berate the organisation, but I don't hesitate to say that I do not agree with everything it stands for and I wish we had had other options.

 

Laura

 

I'm curious- is your Boy Scout troop in Scotland considered to be part of Boy Scouts of America?

 

I know Girl Scouts are affiliated with the international Girl Guides, but I think there are differences. I was just wondering how boy scouts are classified internationally.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Doctrines and creeds can be in place for anything. What is important is how the doctrine is implemented. From my experience with both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts the basic principle of Duty to God has become more lip service (much like how the Pledge of Allegiance is treated in schools) than standard procedure.

 

I just reviewed the adult application for the BSA and while it does have a section based upon the Doctrine of Religious Beliefs there is no box to check, no section to write in or any question whatsoever about the applicant's religious beliefs or preferences. When I became a Den Leader for Cub Scouts I was never asked about my religious beliefs. When my husband and I volunteered to be Merit Badge Counselors for the BSA we were never asked about our religous beliefs. I have become the de facto merit badge organizer for our troop. I have yet to ask or even have a conversation with a counselor/potential counselor regarding their religious preferences. I have never received a rejected application from our council either, so I am assuming that particular information is unimportant.

 

--

As an aside - the BSA also has a mandate stating that all adult leaders and volunteers should be physically fit. How well is that standard maintained?

Edited June 26, 2009 by The Dragon Academy

[Spy Car]

Boy Scouts is not a religious organization and there are no religious tests. Anyone who can refrain from disparaging religious beliefs and has a belief system in place - be it that we have a moral obligation to help humanity or some such thing, will most likely have no problems at all.

 

I wish this were the case, but sadly this is not the position of the BSA in my experience.

 

Bill