Jumping In Puddles Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Right across my bare feet. I ran to the bathroom to wash it off, and he was gone when I was back.:glare: what? what? what?? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! At this moment I feel I must be the most sheltered person in America. I would not, could not imagine this in a million years. I am so sorry this happened to you! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Right across my bare feet. I ran to the bathroom to wash it off, and he was gone when I was back.:glare: Oh my!! :eek: I'm afraid to ask what he "unloaded". Are you talking urine?? or *choke* sperm? Ay I'm gonna faint now right after I hurl again. :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Oh eewww. Our library won't even allow people to look at myspace without a librarian typing in her password to unlock the site. And, they monitor...CLOSELY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 what? what? what?? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! At this moment I feel I must be the most sheltered person in America. I would not, could not imagine this in a million years. I am so sorry this happened to you! :grouphug: When I was 17 I was so tough, it really wasn't *that* big a deal. Really, it wasn't as bad as the time I was in college and one roommate was screaming at another and I stepped between them to "break it up" and one bit me on the neck. Or the time an irate patient tried to blow us up by flicking his bic under the open O2 spigot, and when that didn't work, pulled a used needle out of the sharps trash and chased the whole team into the stairwell, where the 7 of us pressed against the door while the guy pounded on it like the Hulk, and my piteous intern (not from the US) asked why his patient was trying to kill him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 I think the dilemma is determining what is porn and what is not. The librarians don't want to make those decisions. That's just my perception based on the librarian I spoke to about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 What parent is going to send their child to the library where men are allowed to view child pornography? :001_huh: Ummmm....that is ILLEGAL...no matter who you are or where you are. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 what? what? what?? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! I would not, could not imagine this in a million years. Well, I bet ya can now! Can I just join you in your EWWWW! I wished I hadn't asked because now I have a serious case of the ebie-jebies. EWWWW! Do we have an ebie-jebie smilie? If not just pciture me shaking and going EWWWW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 When I was 17 I was so tough, it really wasn't *that* big a deal. Really, it wasn't as bad as the time I was in college and one roommate was screaming at another and I stepped between them to "break it up" and one bit me on the neck. Or the time an irate patient tried to blow us up by flicking his bic under the open O2 spigot, and when that didn't work, pulled a used needle out of the sharps trash and chased the whole team into the stairwell, where the 7 of us pressed against the door while the guy pounded on it like the Hulk, and my piteous intern (not from the US) asked why his patient was trying to kill him.... I really want to say something supportive here but I am at a loss for words. I am searching the memory banks for an appropriate response and just coming up blank. I would offer a hug but I am still doing the ebie-jebie dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 If the policy is no porn, then you need to take your complaint in writing to the top of the library -- the director and each member of the board. I would suggest that you spell out at least one, if not more, reasonable methods by which they might address the issue. I do not know how access to the computers is controlled at your library, but at mine, you MUST be a library member, and you MUST hand your card to me before signing on the the computer. If I catch you violating policy, I note it in your patron record, and if I revoke your computer priviledges that is noted, too. No one gets on those comps without a check first. (side note: I know some libraries that require you to be a member "in good standing" and won't even let patron with excessive fines log on). To deal with infractions you might suggest something like: - assign a librarian or other responsible staff member to patrol the computer banks at all times, looking only for infractions of policy. - require users to surrender a library card (or photo ID or something) before using the computers. This is helpful for addressing intentional damage to the computers, too. - install a remote monitoring system like VNC that can be set up on all stations as well as the main monitoring station. VNC allows one master station to view the screens of all slaves assigned to it. The master can even remotely shut down or disable a slave. A staff member would need to be assigned to do the monitoring. These are just a few things that I can think of, which I know that other libraries have done. THere are probably other options out there, but that's at least a start. At our libraries, patrons log on to the internet using their library card number; there's no need to interact with a staff member. As soon as they log off, that internet session's history is immediately, automatically deleted. Privacy is a high priority in our library system; I can't even pay my husband's fines or find what books are overdue on his account. He has to come in and get that information for himself. Our internet policy even states that internet use is confidential and that patrons should not attempt to censor what others are viewing. Really. Here's an excerpt: All users are asked to respect the privacy of other users and not attempt to censor or comment upon what others are viewing. The Library's Rules of Conduct and pertinent state, federal and local laws apply to all Library users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted June 20, 2009 Author Share Posted June 20, 2009 I didn't get in to the library today as I had earlier declared I would. Busy day with lots of kids in and out. I'm hoping to get in there tomorrow, or at least make a call to the downtown branch to learn more. The info on the library web site just states what I already knew. I'm hopeful that there's some policy or plan of which I am unaware. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Wow, this has been a busy thread today. I work in our library. Adults are permitted to view "unfiltered," but I am honestly not sure exactly what that means (i.e., how our computers might be filitered). Regardless there are ways to get around anything on computers. They are very busy, even in my small county library (pop. 50,000). Many, many people come in and do online dating, and that's where the offensive pictures come in from my experience. It's sad, really; these people seem to have no life; they spend all their time on the library computers. Yes, people view porn. When they are caught, their computer privileges are revoked for 6 months, period. But it *can* be a shady area. I've seen some v-e-r-y suggestive things that are so borderline, and I've told people to leave the children's area if they are going to continue--that they are very close to having their cards pulled. Of course, these are people who are there a lot, they know the rules already. It's worth the risk, apparently. >>>My boys are old enough that I'd like them to be able to be in the library without mommy following them around. Obviously, however, I won't be doing that since the pornography essentially makes the library an adult venue. You are absolutely right, and it's not just the porn. The porn is more obvious though, imo. Libraries are not a place I would consider "safe" for my children without age-appropriate supervision. Even when my 14yodd is on a library computer, I make sure to check out the people next to her. If a patron told me that someone was viewing porn, we'd only be able to keep an eye on that person and would possibly mention to the viewer that someone else has been offended by what they've seen. >>>Have any of you dealt with this? Have you confronted your library about their porn policy? Were you able to change anything? Anyone have any suggestions? I think a lot of this would depend on your area. While it happens where I am, as I said, we are a small town, and I don't believe our library board feels it's enough of an issue to change policy by attempting to restrict anything further. *In my area,* it might be possible to convince the board to put restrictions on adults using computers in the children's area, but that would be as far as they might go. (At this time, the internet computers are for anyone to use, whether it's in the adult section, or the children's section.) Computers have drastically changed the library from when we were kids, but not necessarily for the better. Edited June 21, 2009 by Kristine out of lurking Sorry, first try had pop. listed as 4,000, which is the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I have to thank the OP for posting this thread. Although it is disturbing, I had NO IDEA that all of this was going on in the library. I have even been entertaining the idea of letting my 12y.o. dd to practice some independence skills (going into the library by herself to check out books while I wait for her outside the front door) because I thought it would be a safe place to practice. I am so glad that I read this thread. Now I am better educated about what goes on in the library I will never, EVER let her go in without me. YIKES!! I have to say after the initial shock of some of these anecdotes, I have to say that it leaves me VERY sad. It is a sad thing to imagine that many people walking around in such a state of depravity. :( It really makes me sad for the future. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Our internet policy even states that internet use is confidential and that patrons should not attempt to censor what others are viewing. Really. Here's an excerpt: All users are asked to respect the privacy of other users and not attempt to censor or comment upon what others are viewing. The Library's Rules of Conduct and pertinent state, federal and local laws apply to all Library users. I'd still videotape surreptitiously for a month and upload everything i had, and encourage others to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 At our libraries, patrons log on to the internet using their library card number; there's no need to interact with a staff member. As soon as they log off, that internet session's history is immediately, automatically deleted. Privacy is a high priority in our library system; I can't even pay my husband's fines or find what books are overdue on his account. He has to come in and get that information for himself. One of our libraries is like this. (Well, I've never observed porn on the computers, but I spent most of my time in the children's section at this library.) But privacy is huge. I heard it was a result of the Patriot Act. I couldn't even see what books I had checked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammy Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 then I think every time I saw someone viewing porn on their computers....I would just call them out on it! Make a big announcement right next to the 'offender'...."Hey....this guy is watching inappropriate content on his computer....please make sure you keep your kids away from this area." Maybe humiliation would work? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 One more reason to be grateful for our library system! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) http://www.cbpl.lib.ia.us/policies/2.3%20Electronic%20Resources%20Policy%20(2006).pdf Here is the library policy regarding the viewing of salacious materials. In terms of unsavory disgusting behaviour , I can certainly, without question , join in the revulsion. We have a patron we all call tissue man who was a substitute history teacher at the high school. He carries a plastic bag full of kleenex and newspapers and verbally harrasses all the young women regarding their politics and religious beliefs . The majority are members of Peace Church of the Brethren and they are all so very quiet and simply ignore him as he berates and belittles them for their beliefs. He is banned for three months due to a criminal complaint by yours truly regarding ongoing verbal harrasment and prior offenses. I cannot discuss the details here but suffice it to say he used to be a good reason for home educating now we do do so for more positive reasons. Our library director had to have all the doors removed in the mens bathroom in order to dissuade this patron from" relieving himself "in the bathroom . Our state legislature also just passed a new state law regarding convicted child molesters and those specifically that were high risk. The new law bans these persons from being so many feet from a place where children gather but they may have theirprimary residence anywhere. I remain cautiously optimistic regarding the new law and its likelihood of protecting child abuse but statistically I know who is likely to offend in the first place and it is not some stranger/ pervert at the library. It is a disgrace that these individuals ruin the library for the community. Here is the new law and its implementation at our library. http://www.cbpl.lib.ia.us/policies/3.6%20Sex%20Offenders%20Against%20Minors%20Policy%20(2009).pdf Here is the new state law the library policy is based on http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Cool-ICE/default.asp?category=billinfo&service=billbook&GA=83&hbill=SF340 Great discussion . There is always a tension in hard cases especially one involving public funding, the First Amendment and the safety of women and youngsters. I do not have any answers here. What one might consider p*rn another would see as art, remember the Mapplethorpe snafu?? It might seem obvious and clear cut as to what is intended only to appeal to a prurient interest but if you read the caselaw on the question the perils of censorship become all to apparent. Here is a link to the precedent setting case on what constitutes p*rnographic material http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=413&invol=15. I loathe censorship but in the case where the public is forced to view offensive materials by virtue of them being on display in a public place where children and youth are present it would seem that policies to protect their rights ought to be in place. The best option would be to have a separate computer area for youth. I will readily admit that if I were working on a research project and a person next tome was searching for and looking at what I would consider p*rn I would leave the computer lab to never return. It is a difficult issue indeed. I would be as offended if a person next to me was reading and or posting at white supremacist sites. There are plenty of patrons doing that as well. To me this is just as offensive and wasteful of our tax dollars. This is a very compelling discussion. I have no solutions only questions regarding who defines what is wasteful, obscene and a threat to young people? Believe mewhen I say that personally I am repulsed at what someother patrons might view at the computer lab but I also am absolutely unsure where the definitions of prurient and obscene should come from. We are fortunate to be able to avoid the whole issue as we do not use the library lab but it is a pressing safety issue for so many families. Interesting discussion with more questions than answers for this board member. Edited June 20, 2009 by elizabeth mispelling of Brethren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Right across my bare feet. I ran to the bathroom to wash it off, and he was gone when I was back.:glare: That is the proble in our city library. Men are trying to get stuff onto other people back in the stacks, IYKWIM. You turn a corner unsuspecting and.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 bump good idea bumping this --it's an important issue that can use some extra front page time :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 In my experience, libraries are hotbeds of gawkers (they get on the other side of the shelf and hope to get a panty-view if you squat to get a book on the lower shelf), accidental bumpers, followers, and (in one memorable day when I had my flip flops off while sitting at a table) "unloaders". Part of the joys of being middle aged and frumpy is that no longer happens to me! Teens need to be warned about this, and be alert to let staff know. I have friends who work in libraries and they are aware the problem. Could you ask for some computers in the kids area? For kids? There are already kid computers in a separate area, with filters. She is concerned about the unfiltered computers in the adult area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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