Faithr Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I read these as a child and have read them aloud to my children and I never saw anything anti-Christian about them. I understand they are based on ancient Welsh mythology so I guess I read them the same as the Iliad, Odyssey, Greek and Norse myths, etc. Not anti-Christian, just not Christian. I saw them as archetypal stories. But then again, I had no trouble with Harry Potter which I saw in the same light (though I think the Harry Potter books actually have a very Christian sensibility to them). Anyway, my son recommended them to his friend but his parents are questioning the books. They, for instance, do not read Harry Potter. Apparently it is the last book in the series, The Black Cauldron, which is especially singled out as anti-Christian. Anybody know why? Thanks! (I hope this doesn't stir up controversy. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretations of this stuff!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'm interested to hear responses on this, as well. I just listened to all the books on CD, and didn't feel they were anti-Christian. I believe they are based on Welsh mythology, but I don't have a problem with that - I love this kind of thing! I love Harry Potter, too, though, so I clearly don't have the perspective you're seeking. :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I loved those books as a kid, but haven't re-read them as an adult. Maybe I'll read those when we are done with the Fablehaven books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) I don't think they are, I love these books. And The Black Cauldron is the second book in the series. The High King is the last book. ETA: I agree with you that they are non-Christian fantasy, but not anti-Christian. Edited June 3, 2009 by Old Dominion Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I assume they object to the fantasy magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I loved those books as a kid, but haven't re-read them as an adult. Maybe I'll read those when we are done with the Fablehaven books. lol My dd just finished those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all4ramseys@msn.com Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The problems with "The Black Cauldron" may stem from the AWFUL Disney movie version. It was nothing like the book and had a vey dark feel to it. Just a thought! Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Oh you are right! The Black Cauldron is not the last one! But I wonder why they were singling out The Black Cauldron if it was just magic that they were objecting to? Maybe it was the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) The Prydain Chronicles are top-quality children's literature ! Do not miss these books ! My children ditched "Harry Potter" after a few paragraphs because they already were well-fed by Lloyd Alexander and J.R.R. Tolkien. They refused to settle for "tasteless food". The Prydain books are not at all "anti-Christian", unless one categorically rejects fantasy of all types. I guess I mean that the books do not "attack" Christianity in any way or nuance, so they are not "anti-Christian." I find no support implied of "bad" or "sinful" values. Edited June 3, 2009 by Orthodox6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I loved those books as a kid, but haven't re-read them as an adult. Maybe I'll read those when we are done with the Fablehaven books. Oooh - I had not heard of Fablehaven! I will be checking the library! I just checked out some Evanovich but I'm not getting into them this time around. I think I need more magic. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The Prydain books are not at all "anti-Christian", unless one categorically rejects fantasy of all types. I guess I mean that the books do not "attack" Christianity in any way or nuance, so they are not "anti-Christian." I find no support implied of "bad" or "sinful" values. I'd even go one step further and say that these are some of the most moral children's books I've read. The books are not episodic, like Narnia, but follow a very clear maturation process for Taran as he grows from boy to man. He learns about patience, leadership, friendship. honesty, and even hard work. He starts the first book craving adventure and glory and ends the series wanting peace and justice. And all of this without sacrificing a page-turning plot, with plenty of laughs along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We are currently listening to the third book, Castle of Lyr, having recently finished both The Book of Three and the Black Cauldron. I don't see that they are "anti-Christian" at all. It is indeed fantasy, based on Welsh mythology, and includes enchantresses, enchanters, magical objects, witches, an oracular pig :), etc. The only thing I can think of that is specific to the Black Cauldron is--and I would consider this a *big* stretch to call it "anti-Christian"-- (spoiler alert) the Black Cauldron is a cauldron that can heal, including bring the dead back to life. The bad guy perverted the purpose of the cauldron in order to create a deathless army of "Cauldron Born"---reanimated slain soldiers with no memory of their humanity-- and is trying to take over Prydain. It is made clear in the story that, while the cauldron originally was not evil, the bad guy has so perverted it by using it in this way, it is no longer able to be used for good. However, the only way to destroy it is for a willing living person to crawl into it, knowing fully that s/he will die in the process of the cauldron's destruction. The group of heroes is attempting to find any other way to destroy it, but is captured on the way back home. One of the characters on the good guy side, who has been primarily concerned with pride and status, in the end sees his problems for what they are, changes and is the one who, already mortally wounded from the battle with the bad guys, crawls into the cauldron to save Prydain even while his companions attempt to prevent him. They then mourn his loss while celebrating his rising above the negative aspects of his character and redeeming himself in the end. I *suppose* if one were looking hard enough for something to object to one could consider this to be offensive to Christianity because it deals with a willing sacrifice to save other:confused: or has a theme of resurrection (even if it is used more in the zombie-type sense?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Anyway, my son recommended them to his friend but his parents are questioning the books. They, for instance, do not read Harry Potter. Apparently it is the last book in the series, The Black Cauldron, which is especially singled out as anti-Christian. Anybody know why? You might ask them for their reasons. I haven't been able to find anything online that specifically says Alexander's books are anti-Christian, so I can't speak to specific issues. Christian Fantasy Net actually recommends them http://www.christianfantasy.net/youngadult.html " Literary Quality: 4 of 5 stars Christian Morality: Excellent/Good Age Appropriateness: Child/Pre-Teen In these series of books, we follow Taran from his humble beginnings as assistant pig-keeper to noble hero, from awkward adolescent to a holy man, encountering adventure, love, and just plain fun along the way! The characterizations are exquisite, the action surprising, and the morals wonderful. This series is an especially good answer to the recent Harry Potter craze, since it follows a young boy's journey to heroic manhood, but with the moral bent and just as much fun (and better literary quality)! Although it calls upon early Celtic myth, there's no fear of "paganising" your children." Now to be fair, this site also does not see Harry Potter as the gateway to all things evil either, so they may not consider it to be in line with their views. http://www.christianfantasy.net/harrypotter.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liza Q Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well, I know many who would not see the distinction between non-Christian and anti-Christian. That is why I don't allow my children to recommend any books to certain friends. We have learned the hard way when a friend's child was begging to read something because my girls were allowed....:glare: And whenever a parent asks me about a book I generally tell them to read it themselves and not to trust my judgment. A family who has issues with fairy tales and talking animals is probably not going to be happy with "classics" like Alice in Wonderland or The Wind in the Willows - forget about the Prydain or Harry Potter books! BTW, we are big Prydain fans here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 A family who has issues with fairy tales and talking animals is probably not going to be happy with "classics" like Alice in Wonderland or The Wind in the Willows - forget about the Prydain or Harry Potter books! Better stay away from the Book of Numbers, too. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Not that this is authoritative one way or the other, but this series was in the church library that I used to volunteer in. Big church with thoughtful librarians and a very nice library collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Thanks everyone for your input. I am breathing a sigh of relief that no one seems to find these books offensive. I always thought they were absolutely wonderful! I'll tell my friend about the christian fantasy . net. That will be better than me trying to convince her, since I don't think she trusts my opinion since she knows we disagree so fundamentally on the Harry Potter issue. I got into trouble once before because one of my kids lent a Boomerang audio to one of her kids and one of the features on the tape (this was back when Boomerang was still on tapes!) which presented Buddhism in a positive light. But we've known each other for years and years and our kids play together pretty well, most of the time, so even if we have these little differences of opinion, we all seem to get along. Anyway, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turnip Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm not a regular on these forums, but found this forum post and I really wanted to give my $0.02 since I just finished the Chronicles of Prydain. There's nothing anti-Christian about the Chronicles of Prydain. If anything, there are explicit elements of Christianity in it (one minor character is very clearly the Prydain version of Noah), as well as other implicit elements of Christianity (the fictional Book of Three may represent the Bible, and the main character's adopted father may represent Moses). Author Lloyd Alexander, who was raised Christian, spoke of Christian elements in the Chronicles of Prydain in an interview once. Here's the link to the interview: http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/collateral.jsp?id=1479_type=Contributor_typeId=1217 By now I suppose you're clear that "The Black Cauldron" is book 2 of 5 and not the final book. "The Black Cauldron" the book was so good it was nominated for the Newbery Medal that year, and "The High King" which is book 5 actually *won* the Newbery Medal. In 1985, Disney adapted the first 2 books into an animated movie called "The Black Cauldron." In terms of loyalty to the books, there is almost none at all. Two things to say on the animated movie. One, the movie is almost unquestionably the darkest animated movie Disney has ever made. Two, Disney isn't particularly proud of it, nor are many Disney fans *or* Prydain fans. It flopped and wasn't even published to home video until 13 years later (1998 VHS, 2000 DVD, 2010 DVD for 25th anniversary). For these reasons, some people may confuse the largely unknown but somewhat scary movie with the books. The Chronicles of Prydain books themselves are very, very enjoyable. Though there is magic in them, both good and evil, it's nothing beyond what Disney portrayed in "Snow White" and "Sleeping Beauty." There's a deep connection to Welsh mythology, since Lloyd Alexander's inspiration for Prydain was exactly that. The books do contain death. It's not gorily described, but it is repeated death in battle. They also contain, at times, the undead warrior zombies called the cauldron-born. There is a *tremendous* amount of heroic self-sacrifice in the books, especially by the main character(s)--far, far more than I've ever encountered in other young adult books--and this is to be greatly admired. The main character, Taran, *never* fails to shoulder leadership and responsibility, regardless of the burden he knows it will give him. This sacrifice and bravery is what gradually transforms Taran from a naive idealistic boy into a grown idealistic man capable of tremendous leadership of others. And it is because of all this self-sacrifice by the characters that good ultimately triumphs over evil in the end of the series. FYI, J.K. Rowling, author of Harry Potter, identifies herself as a practicing Christian. C.S. Lewis, debatably the most influential Christian writer of his day, had magic and mythology in not only his great Narnia series, but also in other fiction books he wrote such as the Space Trilogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 We listened to these as audio books last year. I did not find anything anti-christian about them. We all enjoyed them very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I agree that Prydain is not anti-Christian, but I just had to put in my 2 cents that I don't think that it's higher literary quality than HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 FYI, J.K. Rowling, author of Harry Potter, identifies herself as a practicing Christian. C.S. Lewis, debatably the most influential Christian writer of his day, had magic and mythology in not only his great Narnia series, but also in other fiction books he wrote such as the Space Trilogy. While I enjoyed all three authors (Alexander, Rowling and Lewis), C. S. Lewis wrote his fantasy specifically as Christian fiction (or it turned into that as he was writing it in the case of the Narnia books). http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/people/cslewis_1.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Better stay away from the Book of Numbers, too. ;) LOL! I was just thinking about a certain donkey as well. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 IME there are lots of folks out there who label things that are simply non-Christian as anti-Christian and seems especially threatened by materials that have great ethics and morals but don't come from a Christian tradition or POV. I find it troubling. Another Lloyd Alexander lover here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 We've been looking for something new. Fabelhaven is on the list. I had forgotten about the Prydian series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If they don't do Harry Potter, I would assume that it is elements of magic to which they object. I do not recall the books being anti-Christian at all and I read them as an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm not a regular on these forums, but found this forum post and I really wanted to give my $0.02 since I just finished the Chronicles of Prydain. Turnip, Thank you for that thorough and helpful analysis, and welcome to the forum. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlisonK Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I just want to say thank you for suggesting yet another great book series for my son. I just love this forum! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeneralMom Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If you love the series you may want to check out the reading companion here. It has some good ideas for discussion and post-reading activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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