3rd UTI in my 3 yo DD since March...

[BikeBookBread]

My 3 yo dd was just got her third UTI. She's officially been diagnosed with two, but had a third that I staved off with massive amounts of cranberry.

 

She had to be "cathed" twice tonight. :eek::eek: It was awful for her. I was crying, but trying not to let her see.

 

She has to follow up with her regular pediatrician on Tuesday (we were sent to an urgent care clinic today b/c Base was closed for long weekend).

 

Anyone else out there had to deal with multiple UTIs in a very young daughter? What course of action do you think should I suggest next? I know that sounds strange, but with the military Base docs, one has to SERIOUSLY BEG for help and direction sometimes. This has been a long ordeal, and I want it to be DONE! Should I ask for a referral to a pediatric urologist at this point?

[wendow1]

My dd had frequent kidney infections (first one at 5 weeks of age). She was tested for kidney reflux where the urine from the bladder backs up into the kidneys. The bacteria in the urine causes an infection & scars the kidneys. The test showed she did have reflux on one side. She was placed on daily antibiotics & stayed on those for 5 years while we waited to see if she would outgrow it. She didn't outgrow it & had surgery this past January to correct it. Most dc outgrow it & only a small percentage need surgery.

 

UTI's/bladder/kidney infections can be caused by many different things including something as simple as bubble bath. But with the number of ones your dd is having, I'd talk to her doctor about kidney reflux just to see.

 

~Wendy

[marf1273]

It must be hard to see a little girl go through that but yes, you can try getting a second opinion if you feel like doing it. But right now, it’s best that you follow what the doctor prescribes and tells you to do. Just keep praying that your daughter will be healed soon.

[SherryTX]

My 13 year old had a very bad UTI in late November, and we had the reflux test and ultrasound in December. She did not have that issue, and it cleared up with antibiotics. However, her pediatrician insisted I follow up with a pediatric urologist. The pediatrician is very thorough, but not one for ever having parents put kids through any tests or having them to see specialists unless she thinks it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. The urologist's office looked at the test results, and stated that my daughter would be fine to wait a couple months until she could get in on a regular visit.

 

We went a few weeks ago. She has had NO issues with UTI since her last one, but we discovered that she has a possible blockage in her left kidney, and we are scheduled at the end of June to have further tests to rule this in or out. She may have to have surgery, but it appears to be a pretty routine and safe surgery, so we are not too worried about it.

 

My youngest had a couple of UTIs at the beginning of 2008 and several months before then. For several months after the 2nd one, I kept a close eye on how much she was drinking for water, as well as making sure that she got some cranberry juice now and then. I have been doing this with my 13 year old as well.

 

By the way - the urologist explained to me that cranberry juice, as well as blueberry juice, helps stave off UTIs because it is thought to help keep whatever bacteria that is in there "in balance". It won't make one go away, but can help prevent them.

 

Now - with really small kids - it is my understanding that in many cases, they could be cause by not "wiping from front to back" after going to the bathroom. Is your daughter fully potty trained? I wonder if perhaps this could be part of the problem.

 

I would definitely seek medical assistance off the base if possible. UTIs can cause a lot of damage if they go untreated for a long time. The real danger(in my opinion) is that girls that get used to the symptoms may not understand there is anything wrong with them and will not speak up. This is why my 13 year old's infection was so bad (it spread some to her bladder and possibly kidneys).

 

Regarding the possible kidney blockage: her urologist told me that most likely the UTI had nothing to do with they way her kidney is because her urine doesn't back up. He said it is something that most likely has been developing for a long time. I mention this because I didn't want you to think I was implying that her UTI actually caused her kidney issue - didn't want to worry you on that!

[Marie in Oh]

had 3 UTI's from 11 months to 18 months. She was tested for Renal Reflux and she did have it, but she outgrew it by age 4. They will do a Renal Ultrasound (noninvsive) and a VCUG(quite invasive). Is there a Children's hospital where you are ? I would not let them do the VCUG at a base hospital. We had her's done at a base hospital the second time and I was ready to pummel the urologist who could not get a cath in her. They finally called the ER nurse and she got it in her. I was livid. The children's hospital here does them all the time and it is fairly non-eventlful. Hope that helps. :grouphug:

[keptwoman]

I think you need to see a pediatric urologist.

I'd want her to be checked for reflux too. I was diagnosed it when I was 4 which is fairly late and have damaged kidneys as a result.

[Catherine]

reflux of urine from the bladder into the ureters. Recurrent infections can damage kidney function and lead to renal failure in adulthood. After the third UTI in a three year old, you should insist on a VCUG test to make sure she does not have reflux.

[Faithr]

My daughter got frequent UTI and it turned out it was caused by bubble baths! Does your dd take a lot of bubble baths? Stop at once!

[Love2Smile]

Her pediatrician should refer you to a urologist. Our youngest dd was born with 2 blockages in her uretor which we discovered after her first very bad UTI at one year of age.

 

After 3 surgeries and 7 years on medication and one final corrective surgery she is fine now...but i'd definately see a urologist to be sure!

[Love2Smile]

reflux of urine from the bladder into the ureters. Recurrent infections can damage kidney function and lead to renal failure in adulthood. After the third UTI in a three year old, you should insist on a VCUG test to make sure she does not have reflux.

 

 

Absolutely! Our dd's one kidney only works at 20 percent now because the first doctor we had didnt hospitalize her when she had a very bad UTI for 6 days! I'd get her to see a urologist, thank God for 2 kidneys in our case at least!

[Love2Smile]

My dd had frequent kidney infections (first one at 5 weeks of age). She was tested for kidney reflux where the urine from the bladder backs up into the kidneys. The bacteria in the urine causes an infection & scars the kidneys. The test showed she did have reflux on one side. She was placed on daily antibiotics & stayed on those for 5 years while we waited to see if she would outgrow it. She didn't outgrow it & had surgery this past January to correct it. Most dc outgrow it & only a small percentage need surgery.

 

UTI's/bladder/kidney infections can be caused by many different things including something as simple as bubble bath. But with the number of ones your dd is having, I'd talk to her doctor about kidney reflux just to see.

 

~Wendy

This is what happened with my dd! She had her last surgery at age 7, her one kidney got damaged and works at 18 to 20 percent now...

[Angel]

My dd had frequent UTI's (four in one year once) when she was younger. We were close to having her checked out, but ped wanted to wait because of how invasive the test is. I'm glad we waited because she finally grew out of it. On the chance that it is not a major problem, here is what we had to do. No pop whatsoever. Now she didn't have much to begin with, but two in a week or sometimes one, would do her in. Not only no bubble bath, but no soap whatsoever in the tub with her. If she bathed, she played for a while then washed hair and body and immediately got out. She was sensitive to any kind of soap, body wash, shampoo, etc. We also fed her as much cranberry juice as she wanted and I tried to buy it 100% natural so there was no added sugar (she was prone to yeast infections at the time too). I also made sure she was wiping front to back.

 

Good Luck! I know how painful it is to see them hurting.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Angel

[BikeBookBread]

Thanks for replying all! I started this thread late last night, and I was pooped. I forgot to mention that she DID have a reflux test when she was only about 8 months old after a really bad UTI/kidney infection. It was negative. Any chances that reflux can develop as they get older? Or is a malformation congenital only?

[MamaT]

My daughter got frequent UTI and it turned out it was caused by bubble baths! Does your dd take a lot of bubble baths? Stop at once!

 

I was going to say the same thing! Turns out my dd is especially sensitive to scented soap of any kind.

[BikeBookBread]

We don't do bubble baths, but inevitably, with two girls in the tub, shampoo and soap, it gets bubbly...

 

We have used gentle soaps, but now I'm gittin' ta thinkin' -- shampoo is rarely gentle! We are using Suave kids shampoo because I got a humongo bottle on sale at Target for less than a buck.

 

What soap do you use? We've used Method kids (which is GREAT and sooooo gentle) but it is $7 a bottle, and lasts about 2 weeks.

 

What do you use? What about a bar soap? Glycerine soap?

[Heather in the Kootenays]

Dd had to change to showers.

[SeekingSimplicity]

We were told to switch to showers till we got completely past the UTIs. No bubble bath at all. Also dont' drink carbonated beverages, just plenty of water.

 

Now on the other hand, I had a UTI once from drinking too much water. That's all I drank was water while I was pregnant (and occasionally juice). It had me peeing too much, and everything got irritated.

[Catherine]

urologist. If the VCUG was already normal, then make sure you religiously follow the instructions others have already given-no soap in bath, no soda, etc.

 

There are other causes, like stones, that a urologist would look for. Hopefully she would not need another VCUG because as others have pointed out it is painful and invasive. However, preventing other major problems later on is the point.

[newbie]

I havent read the other posts, but yogurt works wonderfully.

 

My dd has horrible UTI's and right before I take her to the doc, I do a couple days of yogurt and she is right as rain.

[lvbnhome]

Checks for the bacteria...and then identifies WHICH ONE it is, so you know how it can be treated.

For instance, if ecoli...I dont' think cranberry is going to help much, except change ph...:)

my 2 cents

[BikeBookBread]

I'm awaiting the culture...

 

Right now she is doing well. I have cut out pop (which was tough as yesterday was a "celebration" day). She's taking her antibiotics and cranberry tabs.

[katilac]

I'm awaiting the culture...

 

Right now she is doing well. I have cut out pop (which was tough as yesterday was a "celebration" day). She's taking her antibiotics and cranberry tabs.

 

Yes, soda pop is one of the very worst things. No soda, lots of yogurt and plain water.

 

I second the idea of no bubble bath, and no soap or shampoo until you are ready to help her wash quickly and get out. They should be sitting in plain bath water only for playtime. Everything should be dye free and fragrance free.

 

Consider dye free and f/f for laundry soap as well. No tight underwear or tight pants. Consider having her sleep commando.

 

Wet wipes and consider helping her for a while after using the bathroom. If you don't help her, you should wipe down her entire private area at least once a day in additon to her bath (twice if no bath). You don't need soap, just water (unless you see that she is not really clean).

 

If you do all this and she gets another, then yes, I would want a referral.

[keptwoman]

We don't use soap in the childrens baths at all. You don't need it. By the time they need soap they have moved to a shower and we teach never to use soap on privates.... it's not good for the intricate bits of either gender.

I do use shampoo in DD's bath but only a little right at the end just before she gets out.

[Julie in CA]

we teach never to use soap on privates.

 

:huh: Really? Do you use something else instead?

[BikeBookBread]

WEIRD -- The culture came back NEGATIVE FOR ANYTHING. The home dip test that I did was positive; the dip test at the clinic was positive.

 

They want her seen right away on Tuesday....she has no more abdominal pain, and hasn't had urgency since the antibiotics.

 

I'm confused. :confused:

[mooooom]

I ended up having surgery at age 5 - it was deemed my urethra was too narrow and I had it stretched (I've no idea what the actual terminology is). My mother had the same surgery as an adult around the same time - she also had had frequent infections. Neither of us have had any problems since. It might be worth asking about. I still cringe remembering the awful burning sensation.

[Cricket]

My oldest dd had recurring kidney infections that started at 3 years old. She was referred to a pediatric urologist and we had all of her testing done at a children's hospital. She went through the tests and they never could find anything like reflux. She was diagnosed with hydrophrenosis, meaning there was fluid constantly in her ureters and the ureters were always irritated and dilated. She had surgery 1 1/2 years ago to correct the narrow opening of the ureters. Since then the hydrophrenosis has resolved but she was still getting the occasional kidney infection.

 

We had to put her on a strict schedule. She has to pee every two hours. Every time she pees she has to go in the kitchen and drink something. We give her lots of water, cranberry juice and lemonade. She was holding her urine and that was causing the infections. It's like she doesn't feel the urge to pee. She also doesn't take baths anymore--only showers.

 

Until you can get her in for more testing, I say no more baths and get her on a schedule so you can be sure she isn't holding it.

[BikeBookBread]

We just got home from church, and she has a fever if 102.6...I have a call into the Base nurse line. If you have a prayer list, would you add Ilsa?

 

She apparently complained all through Sunday School that her tummy hurt, and she was pretty lethargic. Why they didn't get me, I don't know... :(

 

I have a feeling we're off to the ER now. At least there's a good pediatric ER here in Almost Mexico.

[stripe]

We don't use soap in the childrens baths at all. You don't need it. By the time they need soap they have moved to a shower and we teach never to use soap on privates.... it's not good for the intricate bits of either gender.

I do use shampoo in DD's bath but only a little right at the end just before she gets out.

Me too. I prefer to clean my kids off (that's when I'd use soap) before they soak in the tub, so that they will be soaking in clean water. I do this because of eczema and dry skin issues. Otherwise, I let them soak in plain water and then wash them at the end. But I prefer to wash first, then soak/play in the tub.

 

I have heard gynecologists advise against soap and scented items in cleaning. I remember reading before I started breastfeeding not to use soap on the nipples, too.

 

Regarding problem areas (what is the name for this? smegma? what a descriptive sounding name for it). My kids also wash themselves after using the toilet with water (you could use an old plastic container/pitcher or spray bottle/peribottle). That, and a little gentle rubbing takes care of most problems, but soaking in the tub does loosen things up too.

[katilac]

:huh: Really? Do you use something else instead?

 

I didn't post that originally, but no, you should not be putting soap or anything else on your private parts. Soap should most definitely not be put on or near the tip of the penis, or near the vaginal opening (meaning, do not rub between the legs with a soapy wash cloth; soap WILL enter the body).

 

Soap on the private areas can cause chronic irritation and/or infections.

 

Warm water only should be used to clean the private areas (all of them, including the area that seems like it really needs some soap ;)). If the child has an accident that needs cleaning, make the water warmer and add salt to it.

 

Daily cleaning with warm water should be sufficient. If it is not, the child probably does not have good toilet habits, and needs some help/retraining.

[happyWImom]

had 3 UTI's from 11 months to 18 months. She was tested for Renal Reflux and she did have it, but she outgrew it by age 4. They will do a Renal Ultrasound (noninvsive) and a VCUG(quite invasive). Is there a Children's hospital where you are ? I would not let them do the VCUG at a base hospital. We had her's done at a base hospital the second time and I was ready to pummel the urologist who could not get a cath in her. They finally called the ER nurse and she got it in her. I was livid. The children's hospital here does them all the time and it is fairly non-eventlful. Hope that helps. :grouphug:

 

My dd had 2 UTI's when she was 3, and my pediatritian insisted she go to Children's hospital. She had a Renal Ultrasound which was inconclusive, so then had to have the VCUG. It turned out it was just a fluke in dd's case, but I am SO glad we ruled everything out. And, the people at the Children's Hospital are so great, I would strongly recommend you go to one if possible. They make it so much easier on the kids. My dd had 2 nightmare caths, (at ER's) and still has doctor issues.

 

I hope you are able to put your fears to rest.:grouphug:

[BikeBookBread]

Well, we're home. Fever hit 103.6 at the ER. And guess what? UA was negative for UTI. The fever was part of a NEW thing: she must have caught something at the Urgent Care on Thursday because she started hacking up a lung and her nose starting running like a faucet while we were in the ER. Not flu, just a bug.

 

BUT still doesn't explain the stomach ache. We were directed to still follow up with Doc on Tuesday on Base and get a referral, as this was the third one in 3 months.

 

Thanks to anyone who prayed, and your replies have all been encouraging and informative.

[keptwoman]

:huh: Really? Do you use something else instead?

Nope. I think others have covered it pretty well.

For me personally I get thrush if I use soap and it's not good for boys folds either... it irritates under the foreskin.

Our privates are pretty effective self cleaners :)

Edited May 25, 2009 by keptwoman

[wendow1]

This is what happened with my dd! She had her last surgery at age 7, her one kidney got damaged and works at 18 to 20 percent now...

 

Carolyn,

 

How do you know the percentage at which the kidney is functioning? We've never been told anything like this from our urologist. Also, how many surgeries did your dd need? My dd has had only one this past January. I am praying it fixed the reflux!

 

Wendy

[wendow1]

Our privates are pretty effective self cleaners :)

 

:iagree: Soap in that area is simply unnecessary.

[Julie in CA]

Warm water only should be used to clean the private areas (all of them, including the area that seems like it really needs some soap ;)). If the child has an accident that needs cleaning, make the water warmer and add salt to it.

Interesting. I'd never heard that suggestion about the salt before. Learn something new every day, huh? I guess if I had a kid who needed the caution, I would certainly do that (I'm glad I don't!). Actually, I have sensitive skin, so I use very little soap at all anywhere on my body *except* on the parts that might have contact with feces or blood. I've been doing it backwards all of these years...those are the parts I'm not supposed to be washing...:001_huh:

[Love2Smile]

Carolyn,

 

How do you know the percentage at which the kidney is functioning? We've never been told anything like this from our urologist. Also, how many surgeries did your dd need? My dd has had only one this past January. I am praying it fixed the reflux!

 

Wendy

 

 

Wendy,

 

My daughter at age one, had a horrible UTI. Thru xrays or sonograms...can't remember how they did it now, they could see she had an actual "blockage" in her right uretor causing backup into the kidney.

She had to have surgery to correct that blockage. While doing the surgery, they found another blockage in the same uretor, so 6 weeks later they had to do another surgery. We had to a pediatric urologist do these surgeries. Anyway, for her, since her problem was so unique, the tests they did VCUG and then a *dye* test, don't know the name of it. But it was thru *nuclear medicine* (now if that name don't scare you)

they shoot dye into her arm thru an IV and it runs thru her whole body or something and she has to lay there still for about an hour. They take pictures of her kidneys or something. Anyway thru that they can figure out the percentage of her kidney function.

The original infection was so bad they *think* that is what caused the kidney damage, but she could have been born that way also, since she was born with that one bad uretor.

 

Anyway, that was the test you are asking about.

 

She still had level 5 kidney reflux I think it was called. Very severe. She stayed on antibiotics till she was seven. Going thru the same tests every YEAR to see if there was any improvement. However, since hers was so severe, and it was caused by congenital defect, they felt she would never outgrow it. Her uretor was so wide, the size of a sausage they said, where it should be the size of speghetti or something like that.

 

At seven, they went in again, and cut out that whole widdened section, and reattached it to her bladder.

 

Again, after the surgery she had tests (all of them) and Thank GOD! she had NO REFLUX!

 

Although her one kidney works at 20% her other one is 100% good and picks up the slack! Thank God for 2 kidneys!

 

It was a very stressful part of our lives, waiting, wondering, praying and worrying....

 

So that is her story, most are not that bad...

[Love2Smile]

Carolyn,

 

How do you know the percentage at which the kidney is functioning? We've never been told anything like this from our urologist. Also, how many surgeries did your dd need? My dd has had only one this past January. I am praying it fixed the reflux!

 

Wendy

 

 

Also...didnt your doctor follow up with a VCUG to check after her surgery to see if it worked?????? IF NOT WHY???

[keptwoman]

DD is due the dye test soon. She's already had a couple of VCUGs (they call them MCUs here)

[wendow1]

Also...didnt your doctor follow up with a VCUG to check after her surgery to see if it worked?????? IF NOT WHY???

 

Our ped urologist only does a follow-up VCUG if there is another infection. He says the surgery is so successful that there is no need to put the child through another VCUG. My dd was on antibiotics from 10 mos to 6.5 years but we stopped them just over a month ago. Now, I'm all worried she's gonna get another infection!

 

Thanks for sharing your dd's story. My dd was born with a double set of ureters which caused her reflux. But, thankfully, she only had the one surgery--to re-implant the ureters in the bladder.

 

~Wendy

[Love2Smile]

Our ped urologist only does a follow-up VCUG if there is another infection. He says the surgery is so successful that there is no need to put the child through another VCUG. My dd was on antibiotics from 10 mos to 6.5 years but we stopped them just over a month ago. Now, I'm all worried she's gonna get another infection!

 

Thanks for sharing your dd's story. My dd was born with a double set of ureters which caused her reflux. But, thankfully, she only had the one surgery--to re-implant the ureters in the bladder.

 

~Wendy

 

Our doctor initially told us that too after her second surgery. However she became so sick with 106 fever and another UTI. However our dd's situation is unique. It wasnt just a case of reflux, so I'm sure you will be fine, just watch out for sudden high fevers.

[BikeBookBread]

Thanks to everyone who has participated on this thread. The advice and encouragement has been great. :grouphug:

 

So, this is where we stand: Ilsa currently does not have a UTI, and it is likely that she did not have them in March or April either. The Sunday ER-visit culture also came back negative. However, Ilsa's doctor examined her this morning, and after hearing her loooong history of UTI *SYMPTOMS* actually took the time to explain what the cultures and quick strip test show her. She has not been having chronic UTIs-- the cultures apparently show that the results COULD HAVE been read either way, but her doc really doesn't think she had UTIs. HOWEVER, she most likely does have some sort of bladder issue, perhaps spasming. She gave her a referral to a urologist (here's where the prayers need to come in...this is Tricare everyone---they pick the urologist that is CLOSEST according to my address...not the best, or most appropriate) and we hope to have an appointment within the MONTH. Yes, MONTH.

 

So, no horrible cath experience this morning, just more sitting, watching and waiting...but it could be worse. At least we got that golden referral!

Edited May 27, 2009 by BikeBookBread