How do you encourage your children to THINK!!!???

[A.J. at J.A.]

I am getting so frustrated! My boys (10yr, 8yr) both give up so easily when tackling a problem that requires the least bit of thought! UGH! DH and I are trying to figure out what we can do to encourage them trying harder and not relying on "help" all the time.

 

DH thinks that maybe setting up some positive reinforcement would be good since in Public school they would have grades, rewards, competition, etc...to help them strive to do better. Whereas at home, we don't do grades and since we go for mastery, they just have to correct anything they miss so they don't have a real reason to strive for a thorough job the first time.

 

I'm really getting frustrated and rather disgusted, to be honest, at the whining, crying and hand-holding I'm having to deal with each day. Please help us brainstorm on how we can help our boys not be paralyzed when they are tackling something that isn't obvious.

 

Thanks,

Angela

[Impish]

One thing that I found works (sometimes, anyways :lol:) is I explain to Diva that the longer she takes, the less time we have for fun stuff. I set up a schedule with clearly defined times, and she knows that if she doesn't do a thorough job the first go 'round, she has less time for a chess game with me, or whatever it is that we were supposed to do. A few times missing out seemed to light a fire under her. Course, there are still some days where 'amnesia' seems to set in :glare:

 

Diva has days too where she wants to be 'lazy' and not think. I just keep reminding her that she's an extremely bright kid and can manage it. If she's having a genuine problem, then I do of course give instruction without giving her the answer. I find having her read the problem out loud tends to get the 'a-ha!' going for her. Just keep encouraging them to work out the problem, and take the stance that Mom isn't here to do your work for you, and encourage, encourage, encourage.

 

You didn't say how recently you'd pulled your boys from school...or did you? Sorry the comparison to ps confuses me a bit.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I don't know if I would recommend it, but I have left the room and told my kids that they could call me back when they figured it out for themselves. This was after having offered sufficient explanation and being sure that they were quite capable.

 

Sometimes going over corrections the next day instead of the day the work is done distances them from that emotional connection to what they just did. So I would start the day with yesterday's corrections then we would do today's work with the corrections fresh in their mind.

[A.J. at J.A.]

One thing that I found works (sometimes, anyways :lol:) is I explain to Diva that the longer she takes, the less time we have for fun stuff. I set up a schedule with clearly defined times, and she knows that if she doesn't do a thorough job the first go 'round, she has less time for a chess game with me, or whatever it is that we were supposed to do. A few times missing out seemed to light a fire under her. Course, there are still some days where 'amnesia' seems to set in :glare:

 

Diva has days too where she wants to be 'lazy' and not think. I just keep reminding her that she's an extremely bright kid and can manage it. If she's having a genuine problem, then I do of course give instruction without giving her the answer. I find having her read the problem out loud tends to get the 'a-ha!' going for her. Just keep encouraging them to work out the problem, and take the stance that Mom isn't here to do your work for you, and encourage, encourage, encourage.

 

You didn't say how recently you'd pulled your boys from school...or did you? Sorry the comparison to ps confuses me a bit.

 

We've homeschooled starting with 1st grade. It's just DH has been concerned throughout about them not really having an incentive to excel and was trying to compare it to when he grew up.

 

This is happening primarily in math & science which both require thinking. Reading the words carefully of the problem, and then figuring out how to proceed. It isn't that they are just sitting there taking forever, it is that they read the problem once (or maybe even only half read it), determine they "don't know how" and then come crying/whining for help. They (my younger one especially) acts like he doesn't have a clue and is very indignant and disrespectful at times about it too. (We're dealing with that point as well.)

 

Thanks,

Angela

[A.J. at J.A.]

I don't know if I would recommend it, but I have left the room and told my kids that they could call me back when they figured it out for themselves. This was after having offered sufficient explanation and being sure that they were quite capable.

 

I like that idea except that they are getting themselves worked so into a tizzy that then their mind is clamped down anyway. Some days are better than others (today was a bad one, can you tell?) :willy_nilly:

 

I just wish they didn't give up so easily without even giving it a try. They are both rather emotional kiddos too. They are very bright and can do the work, if they would calmly sit and try to figure it out.

 

Thanks!

Angela

[msjones]

I don't have much time at the moment, but wanted to suggest using graphic organizers.

 

Google 'graphic organizers' and you'll find lots of free ones you can print off.

 

Often, having a format to fill in can get them started. They are quite motivating to my boys and I've also used them successfully with many different students.

 

Good luck!

[Impish]

Get them to read the question out loud to you. Then ask them to explain in their own words what the question means. Reassure them that they are very capable, and can manage this. I wonder how long this has been going on? Is it a new thing?

[Kate in Arabia]

I don't know if it would help, but with word problems/story problems specifically, I always go through them with my kids. With my older boy, it was years of "what do you think, should we add or subtract here?", I tried to keep it very light, like a puzzle we were doing together. He just finished Singapore 5B and if I do say so myself he is pretty good at word problems. He still comes to me if he needs help, and I help without hesitation. There may have been whining in the beginning, but I put my foot down about that (I can't stand whining) -- I will happily help and we can make up stories about it and draw diagrams/pictures, but no whining. I think taking off the pressure helped in our case.

 

My younger is a lot quicker with math. I started out working with him the same way, but he has quite quickly gotten to the "don't help me I can do it myself!" stage. lol. I just play it by ear, if I can see he's getting frustrated I try to talk him through it, draw a picture, etc.

 

The only times I really told them they had to figure it out on their own and think about it is when they were testing. Otherwise, I try to keep it stress free.

 

If this is a cross-subject thing, though, maybe this won't help...

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I do still help with math word problems also, having them read it out loud to me and deciphering the problem together.

[lgm]

I encourage the use of a problem solving checklist:

1. accept the challenge

2. understand the problem

3. strategize & plan your attack

4. try it

5. look back

This one is similar: http://www.teachervision.fen.com/tv/printables/cc/ma1-pscheckguide.pdf

[A.J. at J.A.]

Get them to read the question out loud to you. Then ask them to explain in their own words what the question means. Reassure them that they are very capable, and can manage this. I wonder how long this has been going on? Is it a new thing?

 

Not really a new thing...but has definitely gotten worse (more noticeable) as the material has gotten more challenging. It isn't outside of their knowledge range or what they have covered, they just don't seem to want to "reach".

 

Thanks,

Angela

[Marylou]

http://www.teachervision.fen.com/tv/printables/cc/ma1-pscheckguide.pdf

 

Thank you for this!

[specialmama]

How do I get my dc to think? I give her different problems, creative yet challenging problems, such as logical problems from different books like those from The Critical Thinking Company. We'll sit down and tackle one together, with excitement. We are SO happy when we figure it out, we're high fiving and whooping it up. This increases her confidence, especially if she started out thinking that she couldn't do it. I'd then pull out a white board with a math problem on it and explain that math is just like those logic puzzles; it is fun if you let it be and you can do it. We'd do one together, with the same degree of enthusiasm as we did the logic puzzle. With me gently leading and pausing, letting her fill in some blanks. When she has that aha! moment, then she's got it, and we celebrate with the same degree of oomph, high-fives, I-knew-you-could-do-its, or a good pat on the back with a smile that speaks volumes. Once I know she understands it and her confidence is up, then encouragement and praise is pretty much the only maintenance. Not sure if that helped or not... but that's what we do. :001_smile:

[A.J. at J.A.]

Can you give specific examples? I'm not sure if you mean they are having a tough time with word problems, or if in general they just rush through stuff (whatever it is) and don't bother reading it or following the directions. There is definitely a difference.

 

They do fine with word problems for the most part and that is something we're really proud of. I don't know how to describe what I mean...sorry, I'm not much help.

 

Maybe I'm overreacting or expecting too much.

 

We recently started a new science program that requires a lot of thinking and hardly any spoon-feeding. DS#1 10yr, was doing scatterplots and then had the questions:

1. What have you learned about the relationship between height and weight based on your scatterplot?

He comes to me and throws himself in a chair almost crying, saying, "I don't know what to write". So I say, "Look at your plot, when height goes up what happens to weight." he says, "it goes up." So, I thought we were done. He continues to get more agitated and says he doesn't know what to write. I asked why he doesn't write what he just said to me and he demands that it doesn't look right on paper. UGH!

 

He just gets discouraged so easily and I am at a loss. He closes off his mind so quickly and gets so emotional.

 

DS#2, 8yr, just thinks he knows it all (argued with me today that he KNEW George Washington had died by guillotine!) or he can't figure it out and needs my immediate assistance. He is terribly easily distracted so if I'm working with DS#1 and DS#2 hits a road block he doesn't just coast to the next problem he immediately comes to an EMOTIONAL halt and goes into an anger tantrum.

 

I'm sorry...I'm not sure I can sufficiently explain my problem to ask for help. Perhaps we're all just too emotional today and I should go back and try it again another time.

 

Thanks,

Angela

[A.J. at J.A.]

How do I get my dc to think? I give her different problems, creative yet challenging problems, such as logical problems from different books like those from The Critical Thinking Company. We'll sit down and tackle one together, with excitement. We are SO happy when we figure it out, we're high fiving and whooping it up. This increases her confidence, especially if she started out thinking that she couldn't do it. I'd then pull out a white board with a math problem on it and explain that math is just like those logic puzzles; it is fun if you let it be and you can do it. We'd do one together, with the same degree of enthusiasm as we did the logic puzzle. With me gently leading and pausing, letting her fill in some blanks. When she has that aha! moment, then she's got it, and we celebrate with the same degree of oomph, high-fives, I-knew-you-could-do-its, or a good pat on the back with a smile that speaks volumes. Once I know she understands it and her confidence is up, then encouragement and praise is pretty much the only maintenance. Not sure if that helped or not... but that's what we do. :001_smile:

 

I think that would help us out. We get into such a negative funk around here...I'm worn out from being "needed" every moment by 2 people at the same time! Maybe we should do some similar things and build our morale back up.

 

Thanks,

Angela

[A.J. at J.A.]

I encourage the use of a problem solving checklist:

1. accept the challenge

2. understand the problem

3. strategize & plan your attack

4. try it

5. look back

This one is similar: http://www.teachervision.fen.com/tv/printables/cc/ma1-pscheckguide.pdf

 

Thanks! This is good!

[specialmama]

1. What have you learned about the relationship between height and weight based on your scatterplot?

He comes to me and throws himself in a chair almost crying, saying, "I don't know what to write". So I say, "Look at your plot, when height goes up what happens to weight." he says, "it goes up." So, I thought we were done. He continues to get more agitated and says he doesn't know what to write. I asked why he doesn't write what he just said to me and he demands that it doesn't look right on paper. UGH!

 

He just gets discouraged so easily and I am at a loss. He closes off his mind so quickly and gets so emotional.

 

DS#2, 8yr, just thinks he knows it all (argued with me today that he KNEW George Washington had died by guillotine!) or he can't figure it out and needs my immediate assistance. He is terribly easily distracted so if I'm working with DS#1 and DS#2 hits a road block he doesn't just coast to the next problem he immediately comes to an EMOTIONAL halt and goes into an anger tantrum.

 

I'm sorry...I'm not sure I can sufficiently explain my problem to ask for help. Perhaps we're all just too emotional today and I should go back and try it again another time.

 

Thanks,

Angela

 

Sorry, you and I were both writing at the same time. So, ya, I'd firstly take a break. It's frustrating when things aren't working out. Next, I'd look at how to create initiative. Have you used study schedules and chore charts with success? How about the bedtime routine? Do they need prompting for brushing teeth/jammies on? They may have become too dependant on hand-holding and prompts and can't take the next step alone. If that is the case, let me know because we did something last year that really helped with this! It's just too long to write right now if you don't think that is the issue....

[A.J. at J.A.]

Sorry, you and I were both writing at the same time. So, ya, I'd firstly take a break. It's frustrating when things aren't working out. Next, I'd look at how to create initiative. Have you used study schedules and chore charts with success? How about the bedtime routine? Do they need prompting for brushing teeth/jammies on? They may have become too dependant on hand-holding and prompts and can't take the next step alone. If that is the case, let me know because we did something last year that really helped with this! It's just too long to write right now if you don't think that is the issue....

 

Oldest does great with chore charts and bedtime routine...DS#2 needs major help in that area. I would be happy (and thrilled) to hear what you have done....when you have time to write it all out for me.

 

Blessings,

Angela

[Jen500]

Sometimes I present my dc with a simpler problem using the same concept. We talk about the simpler problem, and when they feel like they understand, they go back to the problem that was giving them difficulty.

[Herding Cats in NC]

With my older boy, it was years of "what do you think, should we add or subtract here?", I tried to keep it very light, like a puzzle we were doing together.

 

:iagree: I think many times kids need to learn how to think - in other words how to recognize and approach different types of problems. I find it helps my kids if I ask questions: What is the question asking you to find? What information have they given you? How can you use that information? I don't give them the answer, but I try to ask questions that'll steer them in the right direction.

[kalanamak]

I am getting so frustrated! My boys (10yr, 8yr) both give up so easily when tackling a problem that requires the least bit of thought! UGH! DH and I are trying to figure out what we can do to encourage them trying harder and not relying on "help" all the time.

 

 

 

Make coming to you not that easy:

"Well, that's an interesting problem you have there. Could you repeat it? Hummm, what about X? Have you thought about X? Are you sure. Okay, well, if you sure that is what you want, what is the first step to getting it?"

 

Affect a drawl if they don't get the point.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Have you read this article? How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise

 

This article talks about why smart kids give up easily when faced with a challenging task. If they've been told from the start that they are smart, they are more likely to quit when the going gets tough than a kid who knows he's going to have to work to get the answer. Smart kids think, "Since I don't know the answer immediately, it must be too hard for me."

 

After reading this, I and my husband really changed some of the language we used with our boys. We never were ones to say, "You're so smart," but we realized we needed to let them know they had succeeded in whatever challenge they faced because they were hard workers. "Great!" became "Nice work!" or something similar that acknowledged that they had to use their brains instead of just coasting by on smarts. Just changing our language really helped them (it didn't happen overnight, though).

 

I may be totally out in left-field here, excuse me if I am :D, but thought you might find the article interesting.

[A.J. at J.A.]

Have you read this article? How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise

 

This article talks about why smart kids give up easily when faced with a challenging task. If they've been told from the start that they are smart, they are more likely to quit when the going gets tough than a kid who knows he's going to have to work to get the answer. Smart kids think, "Since I don't know the answer immediately, it must be too hard for me."

 

After reading this, I and my husband really changed some of the language we used with our boys. We never were ones to say, "You're so smart," but we realized we needed to let them know they had succeeded in whatever challenge they faced because they were hard workers. "Great!" became "Nice work!" or something similar that acknowledged that they had to use their brains instead of just coasting by on smarts. Just changing our language really helped them (it didn't happen overnight, though).

 

I may be totally out in left-field here, excuse me if I am :D, but thought you might find the article interesting.

 

That is truly earth-shattering!! THank you so much! I am going to have my DH read this too and I think this will help tremendously! I was one of those kids that was always told I was smart and things actually did come easy for me, but it was definitely a reality check in college and difficult for my mind when I started to really have to work hard.

 

Blessings,

Angela

[A.J. at J.A.]

I'm taking a wild guess here at what might be going on in your son's mind. With the scatter plot example, when you asked him what was going on in the picture he knew the answer. Maybe he is overwhelmed by having to figure out and concentrate on so many aspects of answering the question. He has to figure out what is being asked, what the answer is, and how to get that down into a legible proper sentence. Do you require him to answer in a complete sentence? How is his writing and penmanship? If he has any struggle with those things it might feel overwhelming to him to do all of that. He might not be overwhelmed with figuring out the answer, but with all that is entailed for answering the question.

 

I'm guessing though. This happens to my son. He can figure out very complicated and difficult things. But for him to get that down on paper in a way that is perfect enough for him (he is a perfectionist) he gets very worked up and upset about it. And to focus on all of those aspects of answering is a LOT of work for a beginner.

 

Thanks for your comment. He actually doesn't have to write in full sentences on science (I know..I'm not following WTM), and he doesn't have any difficulty writing...it is just a perfectionist streak that it has to be "just right."

[lovemyboys]

I am getting so frustrated! My boys (10yr, 8yr) both give up so easily when tackling a problem that requires the least bit of thought! UGH! DH and I are trying to figure out what we can do to encourage them trying harder and not relying on "help" all the time.

 

DH thinks that maybe setting up some positive reinforcement would be good since in Public school they would have grades, rewards, competition, etc...to help them strive to do better. Whereas at home, we don't do grades and since we go for mastery, they just have to correct anything they miss so they don't have a real reason to strive for a thorough job the first time.

 

I'm really getting frustrated and rather disgusted, to be honest, at the whining, crying and hand-holding I'm having to deal with each day. Please help us brainstorm on how we can help our boys not be paralyzed when they are tackling something that isn't obvious.

 

Thanks,

Angela

 

Competition can be a good thing. Sorry I don't have time to read through right now to see all the good ideas....

 

What popped in my head is that you may need to step back from the problems you're attempting right now. Sounds like they give up at the beginning because they don't feel like they're able to do these. (Btw, doesn't matter if they are able, this is the way they feel.)

 

So, start with something that you know is easy for them and then build on that. As they feel capable they will feel more confident to tackle trickier or more unknown problems.

 

We stop movies and audio tapes to ask, "wow, why do you think he did that?" "what are they thinking about here?" or "what else could she do?" things that stretch the story comprehension.

 

I set up little whiteboard competitions for vocab, Latin, etc. where they either solve things simultaneously or tag-team.

 

For math, I have small index card spiral-bound flip books that I write out a challenging word problem, an incomplete pattern or a problem they're needing work on -- they do one or two of these at the start of math. It's one of their favorites.

 

Critical Thinking Press has lots of resources for math, science, reading, etc. We've only used one a couple years ago for science, but I'll be looking for more soon for literature/reading.

 

Bottomline, they'll be jumping over each other to do these kinds of things, when they feel competent, so that's where I would start. Not with punishment or threats or bribes.

 

Small incentive rewards can be a good thing (small goodies in a box that they choose one per activity or subject -- marble, piece of gum or candy, fun paper clip, small toy, pencil, pen, marker, eraser, sticker) especially as you're working to convince them that you're doing things a bit differently. They may get bored of this stuff shortly, mine seem to.

 

hth, good luck!

[kalanamak]

 

I may be totally out in left-field here, excuse me if I am :D, but thought you might find the article interesting.

 

I like this idea, and also the similar research about art work. A table full of wonderful art supplies was put out in a room and two groups of children played with it. One had hovering attendants "helping" at every step. The other was just left to play. The next week the groups came back, but the hover group went for the less interesting items in the corners of the room, not the art table. The left alone group piled back into the art supplies.

[Greta]

DH thinks that maybe setting up some positive reinforcement would be good since in Public school they would have grades, rewards, competition, etc...to help them strive to do better.

 

I haven't read all the replies yet, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. But some argue that these "rewards" do more harm than good, that they remove a genuine love of learning and encourage the child to focus on selfish motivations instead. See Alfie Kohn. That said, I have resorted to rewards in times of desperation. And then regretted it afterward when dd starts to want rewards for everything!

 

Whereas at home, we don't do grades and since we go for mastery, they just have to correct anything they miss so they don't have a real reason to strive for a thorough job the first time.

 

Charlotte Mason required perfection in her students' copywork. If anything was wrong, the entire passage had to be rewritten. So they were highly motivated to do it right the first time. You could perhaps apply a similar standard to subjects other than copywork?

[abreakfromlife]

 

Have you read this article? How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise

That was an awesome article. Wow. Something like that happened the other day at dd's softball game; it was only their second game, and they're 8, so they don't know much yet, LOL. The team was horrible in the field. The ball would come to them, and they would all just stand and look at it. We lost like 7-1 or something, lol. And after the game, the coach tells them 'you did an outstanding job in the field.'. I was so mad. What is she going to tell them when they actually do a good job??

[WTMindy]

Get them to read the question out loud to you. Then ask them to explain in their own words what the question means. Reassure them that they are very capable, and can manage this. I wonder how long this has been going on? Is it a new thing?

 

I agree. I always have my kids read the problems out loud. This will often solve the problem. Then, I start asking them questions to lead them to the answers. Then I tell them how to ask themselves the same questions.

[runninmommy]

Joking!!:lol:

 

Seriously, I use two resources, Building thinking skills and Raising a thinking child.

 

Building thinking skills

 

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Thinking-Skills-Critical-reading/dp/1601441495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242939977&sr=1-1

 

Raising a thinking child.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Thinking-Child-Everyday-Conflicts/dp/0671534637

 

Also, just talking through the problem and trying to figure out what their little brains are processing. What is the train of thought? How did they come to their conclusion?

 

Lots of communication.

[tricia]

For me it's simple. They sit there until they figure it out. I have been homeschooling 12 kids now going into our 23rd year and I knew from the beginning they HAD to learn to think for themselves. It seems I have always had too many children to hold their hands all the time. So I simply stopped. And now, after all these years and the younger ones seeing how it works they don't even bother to ask. Isn't that sad!!:tongue_smilie::001_smile: But no, really, it's been a good thing. I can see now too with older ones that it has been a good thing NOT to coddle them too much in their lives. They really do need to learn how to think for themselves. It does pay off.

[melissel]

This one is similar: http://www.teachervision.fen.com/tv/printables/cc/ma1-pscheckguide.pdf

 

Have you read this article? How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The inverse power of praise

 

Thank you both for those! I'm :lurk5: because I have a perfectionist too. Anything that doesn't come easily results in hysteria (and boy, do I remember those days from my own childhood).

 

Angela, this may be very simplistic, but a technique that I've used with some success is actively modeling something like this. For example, if they're nearby and I'm putting a bookshelf together, I'll sort of mumble out loud and talk my way through the frustration if I know they're listening. Express how annoyed I am, take a break for a few minutes, take some deep breaths, re-read the instructions carefully, go step by step, and make a big deal about the big finish. I've seen direct results with this method from my DD6. Unfortunately, my own parents modeled only short-temperedness and frustration for me as a kid, so I struggle with helping her and not perpetuating the cycle!

 

I'm gathering up all the advice you're getting here as well.

[A.J. at J.A.]

We had a WONDERFUL (not perfect) day today!! I instilled a "score" system on our dry-erase board for my younger son. He was to tally his "1st-time obedience" and his "whines" as directed by me (he could ask for a tally if I hadn't noticed 1st time obedience, but he could only put a tally mark when I agreed). It was amazing that he was listening SO WELL! Just to get the tick marks. At first he was just trying to have his "1st time obedience" outweigh his "whines"...:lol:, but then he did so well with the 1st-time obedience and ended up with so few whines that we celebrated with him earning back his treat for today (it had been taken away yesterday.)

 

DS #1 had some struggles with math but I worked through them with him (asking him questions...instead of obviously directing him on how to work them out.) At first he was so upset and said, "You're not helping me!!" to which I responded and said, "I will ask you questions to help you think in the right direction so you can figure it out on your own." He then "got it" and was much more participatory with the process. After that I complimented him on his perseverance and his effort. I think it really helped a ton.

 

Thank you so much to all who gave feedback. I greatly appreciate it!

Blessings,

Angela

[MIch elle]

It takes LOTS of patience and perserverance to help young ones to learn how to learn and to grow in the habit of try, try again.