--Fit --Brand (gonna get flamed here, but I think this matters. Students don't always wind up majoring in what they think they will major in. I believe choosing by programs can be too limiting for *some* students) --Climate (ds had zero interest in going somewhere that had snow on the ground for months on end - though that doesn't seem to be happening this year) --Football (sorry! We are SEC people. It mattered to ds. He was fortunate to have the option of an academic powerhouse coupled with strong athletic programs providing him with events for him to attend)

Hooray!!! Very happy for your ds, 8!!!

Some schools require submission of all test dates. Taking it more than three times is sometimes viewed negatively from what I understand. If you aren't applying to any schools that require submitting all test scores, then it probably doesn't matter, except for the use of resources of money and time. I had one friend who had her ds take the ACT a dozen times!!!! She kept thinking his score would improve so he would get more merit money. Poor guy. I bet he got a 28 (which was where he maxed out) five times in a row!

The "collective wisdom" (for whatever that is worth) that I have seen is no more than three times.

Amen! Ds was deferred from his first choice. Longest winter of my life!!! Happily, he got in on the regular decision round, but it was tough!

I wanted to highlight this because I think that sometimes parents of shy/introverted students believe that smaller schools are preferable to larger universities for their children. Of course it all depends on the individual student - I'm not trying to make any broad, sweeping generalizations - but there is literally nowhere to hide in the classroom at these CTCL-types of schools. Someone else mentioned above that if you are missing class, not participating in class (this is often expected), etc., it's going to be obvious. Some shy/introverted type kids seem to prefer the larger university setting where it's easier to blend in/be anonymous. Reiterating what Creekland said - "There's no right or wrong answer here - only right/wrong for the student."

The National Merit Scholarship Corporation itself offers a one-time award of $2,500. Not all NMFinalists get it. It certainly pales in comparison to some institutional awards, but if you attend a school that gives no money for NMF (as my ds chose to do) it's certainly better than nothing. A National Merit Finalist and a National Merit Scholar are not the same thing. http://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/interior.aspx?sid=1758&gid=2&pgid=424

Here are a couple of alums from Hendrix from my era: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/about/articles/9861 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A._Blackmon Both English majors.

I knew that. ;) OP - I attended Hendrix myself, but that was a loooong time ago. MysteryJen will be able to offer more up-to-date information. One offering they have now that did not exist when I was a student there is the Hendrix Odyssey program. You can read about it here: https://www.hendrix.edu/odyssey/ I liked the intimacy of the campus, the ability to live on campus all four years, the closeness with faculty (when my parents died two and a half years after I graduated, four of my professors traveled (from out of town) to attend their funerals), the fact that there was no Greek life, the community service mindedness of the student body, and the advising. I don't know the percentages now, but when I graduated, 70% of students went on at some point to some type of graduate or professional school - myself included. They are extremely strong in the natural sciences and are fabulous at placing kids in medical school. In fact, when my dad graduated from Arkansas's medical school in 1954, eight of the top ten in his class had done their undergrad at Hendrix. That strength of preparedness and placement remained when I was there, and I can only assume that it continues. And, they place students into medical schools other than Arkansas. My degree was in Economics with an Accounting emphasis - all but one of the large accounting firms recruited there. There were probably 15 of us that graduated with that accounting emphasis, and I think seven of us were hired by Big Eight (now Big Four) accounting firms. So, career placement was good for me because recruiting was good for my discipline. Their food is fabulous - NOT the case when I was there. The location is not too terribly remote - it's only about half an hour from Little Rock. Conway itself has grown tremendously since I was a student there. The housing for freshmen and sophomores could be improved upon, but there are now many good options for upperclassmen. The campus is lovely. I have many fond memories of my time as a student there. :)

They're not. I used that word because someone else did up thread.

The OP wanted to hear from those who had experience with any of the CTCL. I'm not sure why people enthusiastically touting their experiences is being viewed as elitist. Neither the OP nor those who attended those schools coined the moniker, "Colleges That Change Lives."

Gosh, *LC. I'm really not sure how I am supposed to respond. I will simply say that it was not my intention to be offensive, make assumptions, or make broad, sweeping generalizations. I apologize.

*LC - If you look on that McKinsey list, you'll see that they recruit all over for PhD students and Post-Docs. The list of places where they recruit undergrads is far more limited. I just used them as a representative example that *some* (very limited - which I believe I stated) employers/industries only recruit at elite schools when hiring undergrads. The OP asked about factors that people might not generally think of. Undergraduate recruiting ON CAMPUS is limited to certain schools by certain employers. If one cares about that type of employment, it could matter. Your examples of those working at McKinsey include people who got MBAs or other graduate degrees from top schools after attending your dd's school for undergrad. I think location should be a factor. Others don't. That's fine. If we all agreed, we wouldn't give the OP anything to think about! ;) My use of the word "abound" was in reference to the fact that the OP would likely get many examples from the many responses to come on this thread. I simply contributed three. I did not mean that I had the last word on anything. I was just providing the ones I had. A degree from a highly-ranked school does not guarantee "success" (however one defines it), and a degree (or no degree at all) does not guarantee a "lack of success" (however one defines it).

Oh, of course! Not forever. And, they do hire consultants from multiple disciplines. As you stated, your dh's student attended an Ivy for grad school, so he did have the "brand." It's great that it worked out for him! Just like undergrad admittance, there are no guarantees that one will get in at the grad level, however. It is a very narrow section of employment and is not going to apply to many.

Hard data is difficult, but anecdotes abound. We've known a couple of CS students who applied to work at Google coming out of our state flagship. Both were very bright (in the Honors College, on fellowships/full rides, great grades, etc), but neither one received an offer. Both wound up working in tech for Walmart right down the road. We are fortunate to have some great companies within our state to work for. Obviously, they recruit heavily from our state flagship. This is why I think LOCATION with regard to where your student wants to wind up living is an important factor. What type (and how much) employment is available in the area? Is it an area that is economically thriving or stagnating? All companies are going to recruit in the state where they are located. Most (not all) college students do not go to college much farther than 150-200 miles from home. If you know where you want to be, attend college in that area! I'm not saying it's impossible to get jobs coming out of a state flagship at big name corporations if you are a couple thousand miles away - I just think it's not the norm. Much less expensive for corps to recruit locally. If you are attending a higher ranked school, I think it is easier to locate nationwide or globally. So, if you don't know where you want to live, a "brand" can take you more places. Walmart isn't likely to hire from San Jose State, and Google is not likely to hire from the University of Arkansas. But, both would likely be interested in someone out of HYPSM, all other things being equal. JMO! The whole "Is fill-in-the-blank worth it?" is continually debated on CC and IRL. Most kids who have the stats to get into top 20 schools are also going to have the ability to get some generous merit money at lower-ranked schools. Ds has a friend who graduated a class ahead of him who turned down Stanford to be a McDermott Scholar at UT-Dallas. They only take 21-24 kids per year and many are poached from top schools because it is a sweet deal. It's a full ride with MANY perks including some designated staff just for the McDermott Scholars. They do a great job placing kids in all kinds of locations for internships. However, this program purposely goes beyond what a typical Honors College within a state flagship would have. So, does this kid, as a college senior have any regrets about not choosing Stanford? I really don't know. He is an EE major and had an internship with Tesla last summer with an offer waiting for him there when he graduates. However, what he *really* wanted to do was work for McKinsey (a management consulting firm). Certain industries (IB and certain management/strategy consulting firms) are NOT going to recruit at lower tier schools, special program or not. This is where "brand" definitely comes into play. He had a first round interview with them for their Dallas office, but that was it. And, he sought it out. Don't think they are holding recruiting sessions there. The cynic in me wonders if he had a chance at all or if that interview was just a courtesy. So, I would add the idea of location relevant to where you want to eventually live as a consideration. And also be aware that some (yes, I think it's pretty narrow) industries are not going to recruit at lower ranked state flagships.

My college boyfriend did not get in on his first try, but got a Masters in toxicology (I think) and then got into Med School. But, I certainly understand that having to delay would be extremely frustrating. Especially for as strong of a candidate as Creekland's ds already is. I'm going to just toss an idea out - I think there is and always has been somewhat of a divide/friction between the medical community and the academic/research community. I've known MDs who referred to PhD's as "real" doctors. Not ever sure if that was a praise or a snark. Medicine is not science in its purest sense. It just isn't. I think research people can resent the fact that MDs have historically made more money, and I think MDs can resent the fact that they aren't *really* scientists. Just an observation. Perhaps this plays into the bias toward accepting kids of MDs??? Creekland, you are generous to share your experience and perspective on how this process has worked and what your observations are. No doubt, it will help someone reading this in the future.

I had wondered about this. Our state's medical school (we only have one) takes a minimum of 100 in-state students each year. They even have a quota system which requires 25 from each of our four Congressional districts. Makes it much more challenging to get in from the two wealthier, more urban districts than from the two poorer, rural ones. They then take another 50-60 as "open candidates." When my dad applied to medical school in our state back in the 1950's, they actually took two from each county. He was the only one who applied from his rural county! I had no idea there was a preference for those who had doctors in their families. Why is that???? Would he consider a D.O. program? Just throwing out an idea. I don't think those have had the cache that an MD had, but my (incredibly limited) understanding is that perception has now changed. I cannot believe that his university was so irresponsible on their side of the admissions process!!! It's shocking. Not only would I not give them any money, I would also give them an ear full as to why I wasn't. I am so very sorry, Creekland. Hugs to you and your ds.

Super fantastic!!!!! Many congrats to all!!! I have a friend who attended the LSE before going to Harvard Law. He's now a federal judge.

Lol!!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S5LKXO9aCTc Clip from the Big Bang Theory.

Of course!!!! Love all kinds of acceptance news! Many congrats to your ds - that sounds amazing!

Being on a quarter system, ds has a shorter break than many. Typically three weeks, though it can be longer if he finishes exams earlier during exam week. We were a bit "cheated" this year as he will be abroad winter quarter which means he left today! He was home twenty days. The study abroad has some orientation on-site, which starts tomorrow with classes commencing Monday. That's when on-campus starts as well, but he could have stayed here three more nights were he going back there. Very excited for him, though!!!!

Thanks. You're right - they might be perfectly happy with just part of it. I just worry. Ha ha! Which is my own problem! I did some looking on the school's website, and I was mistaken - no golf carts are provided. They do provide a list of resources for wheelchair rentals, and there is an option (I didn't look too closely at requirements) to get a temporary parking pass for disability parking. Which makes sense - a rental car wouldn't have a disability tag. He doesn't have a disability tag, and he doesn't need a wheelchair. He walks fine - just slowly and shuffle-ly. Which is why I think he would be super resistant to that particular idea. I'm waaayyyy too far ahead of myself. It just kinda caught me off guard that mil even brought it up so far out. So I started worrying/panicking prematurely.

I'll have to check the layout of the campus map more carefully to know better if this would help. Not sure how close a driver could get.

I think that is lovely of you. But, I can't change the "tone" of graduation or slow down its pace, so I think what you are describing is a different type of situation. During our Christmas trip to the in-laws', we went to visit a Preidential Library, We absolutely slowed our pace. We could do it leisurely. That's a great option when one has the ability to set one's own agenda. That's not the case at graduation. I'm not telling them they can't come. I can't keep them from attending. They are ds's only grandparents as my parents were killed before dh and I were even married. My mil has been a fantastic grandparent. Fil not so much, but he is very proud of our ds. Of course I can understand their wanting to be there. I just hope they don't pay for a cross-country trip and hotel, etc. only to wind up sitting in a garden and meeting up with us later. But it will be their choice if they do that. All I can do is explain the situation and hope for the best.