One of our famous theologians called children's noise in church "Holy noise" because they are part of the parish just as any of us adults. But, that said, it does vary from parish to parish. If you happen to find yourself in a parish that is mostly older folks, then yes, they would have a harder time adjusting to little ones and their noises and such. Sadly, I've heard stories of very unwelcoming parishes... but I think that may be a problem across Christian traditions. We have a lot of kiddies in our parish and many of them like to sit/stand/play quietly up front. One of our priests fondly calls it the "mosh pit" :) As with any church that welcomes children, we just ask that if they're really being loud or crying to take them out into the hallway or to the fellowship hall until they quiet down. That's probably obvious in just about any church. As Milovany said, YMMV. PM any of us and we may know of a nearby a parish that would welcoming and used ot children. Don't be afraid to ask..or to call the priest of the local parish and find out if they've got a lot of kiddies in their church.

One of the reasons we moved where we were 2.5yrs ago was because of peak Oil. My dh spent many years studying this and we opted to a more central house closer to main roads and public transit. Then fracking... and now according to my dh, peak oil has been pushed back probably for most of our life-time. I'm not sure we'll see gas prices that high anytime soon. For better or for worse is up for debate (and another thread), but fracking has contributed positively to the peak oil issue.

Absolutely, retirement is complex... but I think for *me* and for many others who belong to a more sacramental tradition - it should be one of the major considerations along with cost-of-living or climate. I look at my parish *as* my major support network. It's not a nice thing I do once a week. It's my family. I don't see why living within 30min. of a parish is doomed? Why do you think that? I know that churches are struggling in rural areas as well as some in very urban areas... but that leaves a lot of options between those extremes. Distance from church is absolutely a priority for us. We also moved closer to our church 2 yrs ago. While is wasn't the primary reason FOR moving, it was definitely a huge help. Going from 35min (on a good day) to 15 has been wonderful. I thought your comment: "It would be strange for retirement to suddenly overturn decades of habitual prioritization of home/work/family/schools first, and church sort of slotted in there."" is odd when I *clearly* said I was talking about people who were very committed to church...the kind that were there for years and very active in church life. Not the kind who maybe showed up one Sunday a month or the "Creasters" (Christmas/Easter folks). If you're not that concerned about church, then obviously it's not a priority, and that's fine for you. I just expressed surprise at those with whom I've known it was a major priority, to not take that into consideration when looking for a new house.

I try to wear it most days... but it's hit or miss if I'm at home. I also look tired if I don't have a little something. And, I have reddish blotchy face, so it helps smooth it out a bit. I like BB Cream- which is a tinted moisturizer with some spf in it too. Then a little eye liner (I prefer the pencil with the rubber smudger) and light blush. On days I go out I'll do mascara and eye shadow too. But, I find that mascara starts bugging me after several hours, so even though I had makeup on earlier for church I've already washed my face to take off the mascara.

Moving away from my parish will be very hard too. I love my church community and consider them my 2nd family. But, I just don't see us living in this area after we retire. Taxes are killing us, it's becoming even more snobby and unfriendly, and I'm just getting more and more unhappy with this immediate area. We could still live in MD - but probably too far to travel to our current parish.

yes, but if you're a Lutheran, 7th Day Adventist, Orthodox or Catholic or some such you want to find a church within your tradition. It's not that they aren't around, but that they can be far away. As we age, we drive less and less - so being 30-45min from a church is a huge deal for someone who is 70 or 80, compared to someone who is 30-40. At our Lutheran church, there was a couple who were practically founders of the parish... extremely active in the church for many, many years. I think her dad has been a pastor out the midwest or something - so very steeped in the tradition. They moved to the beaches and oops, discovered the only Lutheran church was quite a distance away. Her dh became blind (partly why he finally retired) and their church attendance went way down. When they came back to visit the area, she mentioned that they were sad they'd lost that connection. They could have easily found a community closer to the church, but somehow it wasn't something they considered when they found the place to live (or they didn't realize it would be a big deal).

I hate what they've become here in America. Either they've become too commercialized (Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving) or there too much "you've gotta do it this way... or you're a failure" (Mother's/Father's Day, Valentine's day, etc. etc.) I'm so glad I'm no longer in a church that feels compelled to give the annual "Mother's Day sermon". Ugh, I used to feel so badly for women who either weren't mothers. One year a pastor gave a sermon that talked about all the negative statistics of kids who grew up in single families for mother's day :confused1: :confused1: . Seriously, what was he thinking? The only thing we do to honor them in our current church is we say some prayers for moms, grandmoms, and godmothers at the end of the service, and we also say a prayer in memory of those who have died. Oh and, someone hands out a flower (which I actually wish they wouldn't).

:grouphug:

I think my dh will officially retire from his paid job, only to do something else at home. It will free us up to move. I want to be somewhat centrally located to my children. With 6 kids that will be hard. One child will most likely stay in the immediate DC metro area (although NOT in Mont.Co. $$) since her dh is a priest at a small mission church and his parents live here too. The others are unknown, but I can't expect them to all land here. I'd *love* to live near the Mnts. of TN or up in PA. Somewhere near a church or monastery is a must. I am surprised at the amount of active church people I know, who retired and moved away, and never gave a thought to how close/far away a church would be. Really?? Church was that important when you were working, but no thought at all when moving away?? I don't get it.

I try to avoid getting gifts for Mother's Day. I don't think we need another stressful shopping holiday in our year. I usually appreciate someone else cooking dinner for me (that does *not* mean take-out pizza :glare:) and/or some flowers. This year I'm thinking I'd like to see if a couple of friends can get together for dinner. My one friend & her husband were never able to have children and didn't adopt. Mother's Day is very hard for her. And a single friend whose mother died about 10yrs ago... we all enjoy getting together and it's been a while. I'm kind of hoping it might work out for next Sunday.

That's a hard call. Do you want to see her? I think if it were me, I'd try to call (not pm) and explain that I was tired when she called and I didn't mean to sound unenthusiastic about her visit, but that the idea of going to a museum was not appealing. Maybe you can offer to meet her for lunch or coffee or something? Does she really want to *do* something? How about a walk along the river? IIRC, you're in/near Alexandria? There's that nice walk that I see people at during the day along the river near the airport (Rt 1??)...if it's a nice day maybe you can meet near there and walk and chat. It's a beautiful area. Or was she set on doing museums or something? The thing is, I'd call her - not PM.

OMG! Some of you have SO much to do today!! I can't believe it but I accomplished everything but Vespers. I'm just too pooped to go tonight. MD sheep and Wool Festival was great! Such a beautiful day too... but boy was it crowded. I don't remember ever seeing that many people at the MDSWF... I hate crowds so it was a bit overwhelming. I've also noticed that when I got to stuff like that there's a stimulation overload. So many venders and so much stuff to look at. I'm exhausted. I think I'm going to soak in the tub and read a book for a while and let the fam. fend for themselves.

I'm so sorry. :grouphug: Prayers for you and the family. Prayers for your ds - because he still is your son, no matter what the state says. Take care of yourself

Okay, I have much on my plate I *want* to do, but I had insomnia last night and I'm feeling miserable right now. -clean main living area -clean master bathroom -put in plants I bought on Thurs. (!!) -prepare for Sunday School -Vespers And the most important thing today - which I've been looking forward to for months!:::: --Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival!! Whoot! why oh why did I have to get insomnia last night??? :cursing: :crying:

Interesting. I started taking magnesium about a year ago for sleep issues and I haven't noticed any increase in interest at all.

woods here too... beautiful spring greeness.. ack! I can't get Flickr to work anymore here. What gives?? :huh: Anyway, picture woods and greenery on a cool spring day.

very nice! It must be hard too. 3 of my 6 births were with 2 different independent midwives. I was so sad when the first one moved away. BC are lovely too, very nice... but there's a different relationship when it's just one mw to work with.

you're a midwife! I loved all my midwife assisted births (home and BC). Do you work at a BC or independently?

Instruments are not forbidden as far as I know. I've also heard of organ's being used. Also, EO churches in Africa use drums. But, yes, I would say that it is probably discouraged. The reason I've heard is that the voice is created by God for woship, so why not use only that. Also, there is some concern about the music becoming overly emotional (like a love song). Our faith should not be emotional. There's tension between those who have added 4 part western style singing (aka Peter the Great in Russia) and those who use a more Byzantine style. Yes, there are new settings for hymns being written. I have had the pleasure to sing in choir during a liturgy from one of our N. American monasteries. Some of the settings sounds reminiscent to Aaron Copland's style. I've also heard some stuff that is overly schmaltzy and...and...ick. Way too much like a performance rather than a liturgical service. I know there are some new prayers (Called Akathists) that were recently written. There are no new additions to liturgical hymns (words) that i am aware of. Just the settings have changed, not the words. I don't think there are Orthodox songs that aren't part of the service. Just like I don't think there are Lutheran songs outside of what is sung at a Lutheran service. I used to listen to liturgical songs more than I do now. Ancient Faith Radio is good for lovely Orthodox church music. And, I will say that, coming from a Charismatic background and then listening to the liturgy before I ever set foot in a church helped me tremendously to not feel completely and utterly lost. Occasionally, I'll listen to Classical choral music (usually it's church music). I don't listen to contemporary Christian music. Then again, after my teen years I didn't listen to it much outside of church anyway, so it probably doesn't count.

Teannika - one thing is that the historical documents point to both a church structure and liturgy. The Didache (circa 90AD) talks a little about liturgical structures and Justin Martyr (110–165AD) lays out a simple liturgical structure. St. Ignatius, who was a disciple of St. John, speaks of the bishop (Martyred circa 100-120AD). He says to treat the bishop as Christ himself. "See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop." Letter to the Smyrnaeans and; Take care to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and with the presbyters in the place of the council of the apostles, and with the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the business of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father from the beginning and is at last made manifest — Letter to the Magnesians Also, there is a great book called "The Shape of the Liturgy" - it's a huge book, but a great resource. In there the author documents that throughout the Christian world the "shape" of the liturgy was pretty much the same. Certain prayers said (particularly Eucharistic prayers) might be slightly different depending on where (No. Africa, Asia, etc), but that the theme of even those particular prayers were the same. I've read a few of them (from another book which I cannot remember), and they are strikingly similar to the prayers our priest prays over the Eucharistic meal today in the liturgy. The other interesting thing about "The Shape of the Liturgy" is that he documents arrest records. The Roman's were great record keepers, so when they went in an discovered a house church they documented everything they found and whom they arrested. What they found were vestments, chalices, other instruments for liturgical purposes (usually gold and jewel encrusted). okay, I can't find the list in the book and I'm dealing with a crabby grandson who wants to tear the book up But, this should give you a brief idea of some of this stuff.

She may have been sober when she started a family and then relapsed. We always need to have hope and kids bring hope.

yes, going to Orthodox in America website is a great start. However, it is sometimes out of date. If you think you may live near any of us, you can PM us and we may know of or about a parish. In the meantime you may enjoy a little chuckle from this Baptist pastor's experience at an EO liturgy during his sabbatical: http://journeytoorthodoxy.com/2012/08/21/a-baptist-preacher-goes-to-church-part-1/

contessa - she brought it up in another post a couple of months ago.

congratulations! What a beautiful baby.

Is there a plan in place if/when your kids get older and they absolutely do not like someone you've brought into the relationship?