We do a "real" science investigation each year that takes about 2 months. My kids explore a topic long enough to come up with something they are interested in finding out, something that you cannot look up. Then we design an experiment or observation, collect data, analyze it, and then evaluate our study for hidden assumptions, alternate conclusions, and future studies. I have written the first week up for this year's project here http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361740 Although we must memorize some facts, understand some concepts, and learn some skills, this investigation is more about the high level thinking: application, analysis, synthesis, and evaluation. Ruth in NZ

AoA takes us 1 hour per week. 45 minutes to read about and discuss the new fallacy, and 15 minutes on a different day to keep memorizing the definitions of the fallacies. We do 1 fallacy per week over the school year. Ruth in NZ

I showed the WEM to my next door neighbor and he has read all but about 5 or 6!! I was just a bit surprised, but he *is* a librarian fluent in French and Latin.:001_smile: Great role model. Ruth in NZ

This sounds great! Which titles did you use? And which "history book (never a textbook)" did you use? Could you give more detail on this? It does sound very memorable! Thanks, Ruth in NZ

Argument Builder repeats what is taught in LToW. LToW is far superior IMHO. Ruth in NZ

I want to make a few points. 1) Math in your everyday life: you will do math problems in your head all the time (which bottle of oil is cheaper given size and price) or how much paint do I want to buy given the wall space. The day you make a mistake on a very expensive purchase is the day you start writing down your work for important things. Otherwise, we all do this kind of math in our head. This is fine. 2) Math in a job situation in science, social science, engineering, logic, and computer science: A job in any of these field requires you to show your work so that others can replicate what you have done. In many jobs in these fields you work in a team, and your team members need to follow on from your section to tack theirs on. You must show your work very clearly or you will cause errors for the team. Writing down your work gets more and more complicated as you get into high level material, you must learn NOW how to show your steps while it is reasonably easy and straightforward. You will not be able to properly write down your steps for a complicated problem when you are 25 if you have never done it before. 3) Math for school and University: you need to show your work because the teacher is looking at the PROCESS you used to solve the problem. The answer is really secondary to your learning. Testing is for evaluation to determine what you don't understand or what kinds of errors you make, so that the teacher can work with you to improve your math skills and understanding. You must show your work. 4) How much work to show: This is a judgement call, and you as a student must prove to your teacher that you are making the right judgements or you must show EVERYTHING and this is time consuming an annoying. First, think about how many steps the problem has. Then number what step you are calculating. If it is straight computation then you indicate in words what you are calculating and a brief explanation and then just put down the answer (not the full algorithm of the calculation). If there is an obvious step (and I mean obvious to everyone), then you leave it out. Otherwise, you should show everything step by step. It takes judgement and practice and this is part of what you are learning in math: how to work through a multistep problem step by step and RECORD what you have done at each point. 5) I agree that his work must be too easy. In 8th grade there should be basically NO problems in his math that he can do accurately in his head unless he is doing a unit on mental math. Ruth in NZ

This year we have implemented Regentrude's approach and it has worked very well. My ds has to study for about 5 hours before each exam in order to do well. Ruth in NZ

No, I do not teach science through inquiry. We read directly about scientific principles, rather than uncovering them through inquiry-based activities. We spend 3 terms reading and watching docos, and then 1 term on an investigation. We follow the WTM's suggesting of 1 field of science each year: Biology, Earth/space, Chemistry, Physics. Within each field, I choose 3 subtopics to study for 9 weeks each. For Biology in 5th grade it was genetics, evolution, microbiology (his choices) and for 2nd grade it was zoology, botany, and ecology. Then we spent the last 9 weeks applying what we have learned to a specific area of study. This year for Earth/Space Science, both children have done units on Astronomy, Geology, and Oceanography. Now, one child will be doing an investigation on Oceanography (waves) and the other on Geology (soil). Having spent time reading, watching docos, and studying about the 3 subtopics, they have informed ideas as to what would be interesting to study. The 6th grader already knows a lot about waves, tides, and shorelines because his text book spent 20 pages on it. This knowledge allows him to delve more deeply into the research project and come up with an original question and research. HTH

Yes, we have. I wrote about 20 posts last year on the previous investigations of both my boys and on scientific inquiry in general on this thread: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263107

I have started a new thread on the logic board of the same name. My 6th grader and 2nd grader will be working on large scientific investigations until June, and I have posted a description of their first week. As I state in the other thread, I thought that there might be some in the hive who would like to see how scientific inquiry works, especially while we are in the middle of it rather than all tidied up and sugar coated at the end. Ruth in NZ

Every year we do a large scientific investigation for our science fair. And I thought that there might be some in the hive who would like to see how scientific inquiry works, especially while we are in the middle of it rather than all tidied up and sugar coated at the end. :001_smile: We are studying Earth Science this year and have done 9 weeks each of astronomy, geology, and oceanography, so there are 9 left for our investigations. Earth Science is always the hardest science topic for kids to study IMHO because the processes are slow (plus I have never studying Earth Science (ever) so I am always at a loss.) I have a 6th grader and a 2nd grader, and the 6th grader will try for the regional science fair this year so there a lot of restrictions on originality and independence. Week 1 6th grader: We discuss what he will study and decide that since he has been reading about Oceanography most recently and has just started learning to sail that he would like to study the ocean. I try to sway him towards studying life in rock pools, maybe how different animals are affected by the tides or prevailing wind etc. He is not interested. "That's Biology; I want to study Earth Science!" sigh. "ok, so what are you interested in?" "I want to study the movement of sand." :001_huh: hummmm. Now, how is an 11-year old going to do that? After some more questioning, he tells me that he would like to see how sand moves differently depending on the location in the bay he sails in. Ok, that is a good question, just maybe not answerable without a million dollars worth of equipment. We go to the library, and find a textbook on seashore ecology which has a chapter on how waves affect animals (my original idea). But not much else. Next, we hunt for articles on sand movement in the peer-reviewed science journals using the library databases. We find that scientists use radioactive sand that they can then trace or they study a shoreline over the period of 5 years. Ok, neither of those are possible. But we discuss how maybe we can use a different color sand and dump it in the water and time its movement and measure its direction. We also brainstorm all the factors that could affect sand movement: sand size, wind speed and direction, prevailing currents, orientation of the bay to the wind and currents (sheltered?), obstacles (rocks, jetties), slope of the shore. WOW. That is a lot of variables to control once we set up the experiment. On Saturday, after sailing he takes a look around the bay to see if the sand moves at all. It does. That is all the information he brings back.:001_huh: Next, we go to a different beach and collect the sand there (which might be a different color), and collect magnetite (magnetic soil mixed into the sand on this beach, it is black and will definitely show up). Finally, we discuss how much he can generalize given the sampling he is considering. Tomorrow, we plan to put the collected sand and magnetite in the water and see if we have any chance of measuring anything, or if this is just a wild goose chase (which it definitely could be). Time: 4 hours including discussions 2nd grader: I start with my this ds trying to convince him that looking at animals in rock pools would be cool (can you see *I* really want to study this) but alas he is not interested. He wants to study how deep the roots of trees go into the soil. :001_huh: I tell him that we could look at this using road cuts, but that perhaps it would be pretty difficult to study. But he does still want to study soil (4 months ago, I read 30 minutes about soil profiles to him, so I am pretty surprised he remembers anything). So we review what we know about soil: layers A,B,C; earthworms, and that is about all he knows. We go to the library and find no books on soil in the kids section and 2 books with a chapter on soil profiles and topsoil composition. The next day when I am out for a walk in the early morning with a friend, I look at the road cuts and notice different layers in the soil. Perhaps we can identify the soil profile using these cuts. I tell ds, and he loves the idea. He packs a backpack and brings a tape measure, a "data collection booklet", a broken pencil :001_huh:, and a trowel. We go to his favorite spot where he digs out "mudrocks" and loves to throw them and watch them smash. I am wondering what a "mudrock" is from the point of view of a soil strata. We get to the site, and start measuring and recording and then promply cannot remember anything about the different strata and how to identify them:lol:. So back home we go, look up the info in the older ds's textbook, take some notes, and go back out. We measure the strata and feel pretty confident. Next, we walk around the woods looking at the different cuts and their strata. Our woods is on a small mountain (large hill) and it was used 100 years ago as a sheep farm so there are lots of old wagon trails that were cut out of the hill side (think Lord of the Rings Weathertop and "get off the road" scenes, because they were filmed 200m from my house). What really really surprises us is that the soil profile just along this one road cut is very different. Top soil thick to non-existant, B horizon 20cm to 150cm deep, or even areas with bedrock exposed. Funny how I have never noticed this before. So, now I ask *the* question: Why? Why is the soil profile different in different areas? We brainstorm a few reasons (I guide him here, but some he comes up with on his own): Slope, vegetation, bikers. He suggests (on his own) that pine trees inhibit the growth of plants under them so that there would be less topsoil where pine trees grow. !!! Excellent thinking and really cool hypothesis. He also suggests that the B horizon is thicker in some areas because in ancient times more soil collected and then over time compacted into b-horizon soil. so.... WOW, this is going to be an AWESOME project. How does the slope and vegetation of the mountain affect the amount of topsoil? If he were 11+, he could win the regional science fair with this one. (or is it that *I* could win? :lol:) Time: 2 hours Ruth in NZ

I'd like to move this discussion to a newly-titled thread: Scientific Inquiry. I realized that there are many families that do inquiry-based science who do not do a science fair project, and I would like to be more inclusive. I have moved the description of the first week of our investigation to the new thread. Ruth in NZ

I have a PhD in a mathematical science and was almost a comparative literature major in college (so I do have a bent for language arts), and I spell at about a 6th-grade level. I did not read past Dick and Jane readers until mid-4th grade and was never taught phonics. I never learned or noticed things like "oa" makes the long o sound or "ow" makes a long o or ow sound. I just never noticed and was not taught. For me spelling was like memorizing phone numbers, I just rattled them off. Eventually there were too many "phone numbers" to memorize. I failed so many spelling tests that I eventually quit caring. And that was truly the end. Unless you are a natural speller, you must care about spelling to spell well. I am now learning with my 6th grade son.:001_huh: Ruth in NZ

Thanks!

Is it too difficult to do this sequence: Intro Algebra book, then Intro Geometry, and then Intermediate Algebra? I did not realize that the intro geometry book was particularly difficult. I would like to do them in this order to help with studying for the IGCSE exam (which he would take after geometry but before intermediate algebra). But if he is likely to find the Geometry book too difficult, we can do the intermediate Algebra book next and do Geometry prep directly for the exam. Suggestions? ETA: I have reread the previous posts and it might be that I am just confusing the textbooks with the course names. But I would still love some clarity. Ruth in NZ

Melabella, I've been thinking about the maturity issue some more. I'm curious how long it takes your dd to do the "practicing the Topos" assignments (day 4 for weeks 1-15 and day 3 for weeks 16+). I ask this because my ds requires much more than 1 day to plan, write, and edit his paper. We are currently on week 20, and he took 1.5 hours to read the day 4 material (quite a lot to read), choose a theme, and outline what he plans to write tomorrow. I expect tomorrow it will take him 1.5 hours to write the Shakespeare paper because it will be long (400 words?). Then on Friday, we will work together for 1 hour to edit. We will work on transitions, intro/concluding sentences, diagramming poor sentences, punctuation, word choice, etc. Then on Monday and Tuesday he will type it up. So if you are looking at my ds's samples on the WWS samples thread, please be aware that it takes him more than an hour to write each assignment. I am sure that different families use the WWS materials in different ways, and I know that many students do not take so long to write up the assignments. I suppose it depends on what your child needs. We are using WWS as the MAJOR writing he does for the week; others use it just to supplement writing across the curriculum or just to expose their dc to different writing genres or in conjunction with an additional writing curriculum. Perhaps, if you want to work on maturity, spending more time on editing might help. I also check his outline before he writes and get him to orally compose at least the first paragraph to give me an idea for how he will write it up. This technique saves time in the editing process as I can head off major problems before it is on paper. Ruth

Well, I am certainly no expert so hopefully you will get some others to give you suggestions too. 1) The first issue I think is how to compact what she needs to know into 1 year (ETA this is dependent on the answer to issue #2 below). Well, there are many types of writing for your dd to master before high school -- outlines, summaries, reports, narratives, descriptions, and possibly intro research papers and intro lit analysis. It sounds like you would like to compact the above material into 1 year (8th grade) so you can move into persuasive writing and research papers and rhetoric in high school. So out of the list I wrote above, I assume your daughter can write summaries because she is using WWS, and clearly she can outline well. If you finish WWS1 then you will have covered descriptive and narrative writing and intro lit analysis and research papers. I personally do not know of any other curriculum that covers all of those in just 1 year. So all your left with is report writing, which I am guessing that she has done before. WWS 2-3 also covers definition, comparison, and cause/effect papers, but so does LToW, so no need to overlap. So depending on issue #2 (below) if I were you, I would finish up WWS1, and then I would spend her 8th grade year reviewing and practicing the above writing types. Do 1 paper per week. Monday plan, Tue and Wed write, Thur edit, Fri copy over and proof read. If you need more guidance, IEW has units on narrative, reports, research reports, and intro lit analysis (critique). And IEW puts a lot of time to style which might help your dd. You don't need a curriculum to practice what you already know, but if you as the teacher are uncertain, you can compact IEW's structure and style into 1 good year. Other curriculum are much harder to compact. 2) Now the second issue is how to help her write in a more "mature" fashion. I am not exactly clear about what you mean by "mature." If this is just an issue of style rather than organization and clear thinking, then Killgallon would help as would IEW structure and style. If however, "mature" means that her papers are jumbled and unclear, then she is not as far along the writing journey as you think she is. So WWS might be easy because she is not actually doing the assignments properly. If her writing is jumbled and unclear then I do not think that you can compact 3 years of development into 1 year. You can compact 3 years of writing types into 1 year for a good writer, but an average writer needs time and lots of practice. If you want to post some of her work here, or on the K-8 writing workshop board or even privately, I can look at it and see if I can tell if it is just style (and finding her voice) or if her work is actually jumbled. This distinction to me is the difference between the decorations and the scaffolding. Personally, I don't like MCT's Essay Voyage unless you daughter is a comfortable, confident writer and The Lively Art of Writing is for persuasive writing so that can wait for high school while you shore up the other writing types. Clearly, you need to spend quite a bit of time on this, because it is assumed mastered by the time you hit high school. You dd just might need an extra year (or even 2) before attacking high school level writing. Hard to say without seeing her work. My final point-- you need to meet your daughter where she is and build her skills at a pace appropriate to her. I'm all for shoring up weaknesses, but make sure that you provide a firm foundation and don't feel rushed to meet someone else's time line. HTH, Ruth in NZ

We read through 1 fallacy per week and review our flashcards one additional time per week. We also look at all the billboards while we drive and try to identify the fallacies. Ruth in NZ

I'm sorry to hear this. Although I have not often responded to your posts, your experience with your little guy has been valuable to me. Hope to see you back soon, Ruth (somewhat near to you)

My ds had a severe spelling problem because his early/advanced reading combined with a speech impediment caused him to map the letters to the wrong sounds. SWR worked miracles for us. It is very intense, so use it only if you really need to. It is based on the same research as AAS, but is just MORE. Ruth in NZ

Me too. We came to NZ with 3 cubic meters (which included 2 chairs). Then, we just never bought much. me too. I have been known to borrow a few plates from a neighbour when we have company. :001_huh: me too. and one for making bread. Paper: my sister has a paperless house. She scans everything and gets rid of it (she does not homeschool, but it gives you a sense of radical decluttering). This includes no books (all on the kindle). Clothing: I have 2 of everything except undies and socks. 2 shorts, 2 jeans, 2 long sleeve shirts, 2 tanktops, 2 cardigans, 2 wool sweaters, 2 jackets, 2 sandles, 2 enclosed shoes, etc. Same with my children (except only 2 pairs of shoes). Packing is easy -- I just bring it all. Furniture: 1 sofa, 2 chairs, table and 4 chairs (with outdoor wooden furniture capable of being brought in for company.), 1 Chinese chest, 1 floor lamp, 1 desk, 2 dressers, 2 side tables, beds for 4. We do have 4 laptops:001_huh: Books: must fit on the one floor to ceiling shelf I have. Toys: must fit under the bed We have no garage, no attic, no basement, and only 2 very small closets and a long window seat with storage inside. So I don't store extra. Key to staying decluttered: if you buy anything (and I mean anything except food), something of equal volume has to leave the house within the week. Good luck, Ruth in NZ

Ah, we have a difference of opinion. If someone is unkind, I personally step up to the plate and model the behaviour I expect. Be kind and have something for her. Consider it a food "issue" if that help as some people are seriously fearful of putting certain things in their bodies. Respect this, ignore her rudeness, and plan ahead for her next visit. This is your MIL, you will be seeing her again! I had an all-organic friend and always had organic tea in cupboard for her when she visited. It is really not that inconvenient or expensive. However, I would agree that you kindly request that she buy more healthy sweets for your kids to indulge in. Ruth in NZ

Good relationships are always important, especially with your MIL. Spend the money and buy her some organic tea and a tin of organic cookies (or nuts or whatever) that will last over many visits. Then you always have something to offer her and she will feel good about your effort. JMHO, Ruth in NZ

Possibly, but it would depend on his reading level. I was aiming for "rigorous but not over her head" for a 6th grader. Although the geology and astronomy book were at the perfect level, we are currently using the Ocean book and are finding it much more difficult than the other two. It is a very good and interesting book, but more of a sit on the sofa and do together type of book. Here are some examples chosen at random. From Earth: Metamorphic rocks are rocks that have been changed. Previously, they were igneous, sedimentary, or other metamorphic rocks. Almost all metamorphism happens deep in a young mountain ranges as rocks are folded and compressed underneath other rocks. Although rock never actually melts, the texture and nature of the rock may become like new, made of different, metamorphic crystals, with no sign of the original mineral or textures. Par of this occurs in response to pressure, and part is the result of heat..... From Ocean: An ice shelf is a huge floating ice platform formed where a glacier, or group of glaciers extends from a continental ice sheet over the sea. The landward side of an ice shelf is fixed to the shore, where there is a continuous inflow of ice from glaciers or ice streams that flow down from the ice sheet. At its front edge there is usually an ice cliff, from which massive chunks of ice break off (calve) periodically, forming icebergs. Ice shelves are almost entirely an Antarctic phenomenon, with only a few small ones in the Arctic.... Don't have the astronomy book here, sorry. We finished both the Earth and Astronomy book in about 8 weeks each. The Ocean book we will read what we are interested in and then move on. (It is 500 pages, with absolutely beautiful pictures!!) The ocean environments section (where the quote above is from) is much easier than the ocean geology, climate, and wave section. But with 500 pages there is plenty to choose from. HTH Ruth in NZ

Here is a thread that should help. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353629&highlight=earth