Here in WA state a 5 credit class (meets an hour a day, 4 or 5 days a week) at a community college for one quarter (9 weeks) is counted as equivalent to one YEAR of a high school class. I am not saying the learning is equivalent, but under our dual enrollment system, that is how the public school counts the college classes. In my transcript I listed it like this Arabic 100* 1 credit Arabic 102* 1 credit Ancient Lit 1 credit *classes taken at Highline Community College So the Ancient Lit class was something we did at home (or at our homeschool co-op), Arabic was done at the Community College. Both colleges Alex applied to received the official CC transcript in addition to my homeschool high school one. Does that help. a 3 credit class (one that meets 3 hours a week) might be considered a 1/2 credit.

middle son graduates from home school/community college tomorrow. 2 weeks of FUN and then off to the Air Force Academy!

Thanks for the suggestion. I will put it on my list! Hard to winnow the best from the good so all help is appreciated!

I only have one tiny suggestion, and it may be too 'academic' for this thread, but my older two did a Toastmaster program. They became accomplished speakers. They have no fear of public speaking and can defend an idea, present an argument, lead committees, etc. I think a large part of this was Toastmaster's (and the open discussion literature class they had for three years) I think it is one skill from the high school years they will use continually in their adult life.

There is a spielvogel "Western Civilization". It is a college text, generally used for an entry level Western Civ course. The current edition is the 6th (maybe 7, haven't looked at this for a while). I prefer the 5th as there were some significant changes to the 6th -I felt it was much more politically correct. The text of Western Civ comes in several "packages", the complete text bound in one volume, the text bound in two volumes (I, II, with overlapping chapters) for colleges on the semester system, and finally, the text bound in three volumes (A, B, C, each with at least one chapter repeated from the previous volume) for colleges on the quarter systerm. Veritas Press has recommended this history text for a number of years, but I first heard about it from Devon, whom many of us remember with great affection. There is also a Human Odyssey book, which is a high school text. I believe there might be a third one - World History, which also might be a college level text (please correct me, I know the least about this one) but is slightly more inclusive of non-Western cultures. Western Civ only ever BRIEFLY mentions any Eastern cultures. There is also a Western Civ college level text written by Kagan, Ozment & Turner which is very good, but it is more difficult to locate on the used market. That one was recommended to my by a history teacher at Logos School.

With Greece I am going to do some "Meanwhile, back at the ranch" stuff. One of the parallels I like to point out is that the Trojan War was roughly contemporaneous with Joshua conquering Canaan. It makes a good character contrast between Achilles and Joshua. I am sure I will tip towards being literature driven at times with the reading, but I would like to keep the tension between literature/Bible driven. It's my first time doing it this way - i'll keep you posted!

I am still pulling my thoughts together on this one. I see three options right now. You can have your Rhetoric years be literature driven - in other words, you read the Great books, in chronological order. This means that your history study is somewhat skewed. The only Mesopotamian/Sumerian literature would be Epic of Gilgamesh, and yet there are thousands of years of their history. The same for Egypt - thousands of years of recorded history and yet no literature that influenced the Western Canon. You do history and literature on parallel tracks, meaning that you end up at the same place at the end of the year (about 400AD) but that you are still studying Sumerian history as you read the Illiad and Odyssey. I am looking at the option of letting the Bible be our guide. In other words, we will start with Genesis, pre-flood civilization, study Ur in the context of Abraham and then when Abraham goes to Egypt, we will stop and look at what has been happening in Egypt (a lot, as the pyramids were hundreds of years old when Abraham went there the first time). We will look at Egyptian history again with Joseph and Moses. I don't think my 14 year old wants/needs to spend time reading hundreds of pages of history (even engaging, well-written history) when I really want her reading hundreds of pages of great books, Bible and SOME history (whether it is Spielvogel, selected chapters of HOAW, Usborne's Ancient World or the great information/maps in the Penguin Historical Atlas series (which I have seriously considered using as a spine) I think if you use HOAW you have to chose the 2nd option - parallel tracks. like i said, i am still pulling my thoughts together on this one.

it would probably work. However (you knew that was coming, right?) there is a lot more reading in SWB than in Spielvogel. I think the Ancient year only covers about 200 pages in Western Civ, while you would have to read ALL of HOAW to cover the same amount of history. I like HOAW. It is history written in an engaging narrative fashion. But it is a LOT of history from one source. I am reading for my own personal use, background info, etc., but I am sticking with the earlier WTM method of letting the great books drive our history study. hoh,

I don't know how to link just part of a file. this is a context page I did as an example for my co-op great books class a few years ago. The middle part is a chart in the original. And there are some pictures in the original. I always liked for the students to include maps, a timeline or pictures. Context page for “Epic of Gilgamesh†and “Law of Hammurabi†Gilgamesh author: unknown Origins: oral folk poem, probably first recorded in Sumerian about 2000 BC, the most complete version is an Akkadian one from Ashurbanipal’s library from around 650 BC Law author: Hammurabi was the king who codified and had engraved in stone the set of laws bearing his name. He reigned from 1792 – 1750 BC, re-extended borders to those of Sargon of Akkad Mesopotamia, so called because it lies, for the most part between the Tigris and the Euphrates, gave birth to civilization as we know it. Here, the alleluvial mud was formed and hardened into the mud-brick cities which dotted the plains – Ur, Uruk, Lagash, Babylon. Here the first writing appeared – wedge-shaped cuneiform. And here the first piece written literature came forth – the Epic of Gilgamesh. . The first city-states were independent, focused on the city’s god or goddess and his or her dwelling place, the temple, crowned with a step pyramid shaped ziggurat. Nimrod, the grandson of Ham, may have founded Sumerian civilization. The priests and noblemen, highest of Mesopotamia’s three classes controlled society. The middle class, farmers in the country, artisans and tradespeople in the city, were superior to the slaves. Later city-states warred, merged, formed empires and were vanquished by invading nomadic tribes. Empires in Ancient Mesopotamia Early Dynastic Age 3000 – 2340 BC various cities rose and fell, but no one city controlled all of Sumeria until Lugalzaggisi, king of Umma. Gilgamesh was a real king of Uruk about 2750 – the same time as Zoser was pharaoh in Egypt. Akkadian age 2340 – 2100 BC Sargon was the first leader and conquered all of Mesopotamia, plus lands west to the Mediterranean 3rd Dynasty of Ur 2112 – 2000 BC Ur-Nammu of Ur reunified Mesopotamia. A golden age in Mesopotamia – again fell to nomadic invaders. Abram left Ur about this time. Hammurabi 1792 – 1750 regained control of Sumer and Akkad to nearly Sargon-like boundaries. He established a new capital at Babylon, north of Akkad Life was rich and complex, appeasing the hard to understand and somewhat distant gods. Humans had been created to do the work of the gods. Mesopotamians used divination and later, the interpretation of dreams and astrology as ways of understanding the desires of the gods. Today, we also know that civilizations were emerging along the Indus River on the Indian sub-continent and in China as well. This Indus River civilization built the cities of Harappa and Mohenjo-daro. They were built on streets laid out in a grid-like fashion, had such modern amenities as swimming pools, sewers, forced air heating, and hot showers (only for the rich, however). The poor did have access to public baths. They also have a flood story, with three sons and a father. The names Iyapeti, Sharma and C’harma even seem to correspond to Japheth, Shem and Ham. They were expert weavers and textile makers. Their merchants did business with Mesopotamia, Egypt, and even the cities on the shores of the Mediterranean. By 2500 BC however, they were attacked and completely over run by Aryan invaders, a tall, fair-skinned people from West Turkestan in central Asia These Aryans settled in India. They spoke and wrote Sanskrit, still considered the classical language of India. Religious writings were the Vedas. Subject to a separate context page will be Egypt – developing its own rich heritage.

If you continue with Saxon math, you might need to allow 3 or even 4 semesers for Advanced Math, which is why Saxon recommends (or at least used to) that Algebra be done in 8th grade. This has just been the experience of my friends who have used Saxon all the way through.

As Ellie pointed out, it depends on who is counting. If it is just you, go ahead and count them and be happy. Most colleges (of course, each one has its own standards) don't look at courses pre 9th grade. These comments don't apply if you have a truly talented and gifted child who may be eligible for some "early entrance" programs, some of which take students as young as 12 or 13. They are expecting rigorous course work early on and high test scores.

Our summer seems boring compared to all the activities I've read about so far. Oldest ds - well, he's 35 and will just live at his house and go to work Oldest dd - will work at the coffee stand, see if she can get job back at Red Robin for the fall, read Herodotus with me and work on math, which she has successfully avoided for most of her 20 years. next ds - will be flying out June 24 for the AFA academy. big party on June 20th to celebrate his graduation from CC and leaving for Academy next dd - finishing Algebra I, doing Marine Biologoy, some pre-reading for Ancients and learning to sew from a pattern (has done all her 'own' stuff so far), art youngest dd - math, Swimming Creatures of the 5th day, reading. gymnastics, art We (two youngest girls and I) just decided today we would have one day to 'do' our little town (library, Farmer's Market, Trader Joe's) and we would try to hit the free movies once a week. Add in some field trips for Marine Biology and me working three days a week and the summer is gone. We will all be traveling to Colorado Springs for Labor Day, as it is Parent's Weekend and our first chance to see ds. Of course, my "to-be-read' pile is sky high and I want to clean out the homeschool room, lcreate esson plans for the co-op classes I will teach next year, maintain the garden, have some peoplle over for dinner, keep up with the laundry, spend some time at the beach . . .

Other Ancient Greece possibilities for a 6th grader: Archimedes & the door to science Would definitely read a mythology book - D'Aulaires or, my favorite, Edith Hamilton's "Mythology". You could also look at Hawthorne's "Wonder book". You could take the five weeks and work through one of Plutarch's Lives. Rob Shearer, from Greenleaf Press, has always maintained that a 6th grader, with help, can not only make it through, but enjoy "Death of Socrates" (he recommends reading it out loud) What are you using as your spinde? There are two Usborne books - one called "Ancient World" which has a great section on Ancient Greece; the other is "Encyclopedia of Ancient Greece". Or the Eyewitness book "Ancient Greece" Hope that gives you some ideas.

I have not used either one, so no prox and cons - sorry. But they are not the same thing. Veritas Scholars Online uses their own Omnibus materials.

Please do not assume that ANY test (CLEP, AP, IB, SAT II or something else I have forgotten) will gain your student credit OR advanced placement at every college. Each college (and actually, each department within each college) sets their own rules on what scores from which tests they will accept and how much credit (if any) or advanced placement (if any) they will grant Having an AP class on a transcript shows your student is taking classes at the highest level possible in high school (Remember though you can't call any class "AP"; the syllabus must be approved by the College Board.) Getting a decent (3, 4, 5) score on the AP is independent (outside) verification of the academic rigor of your home school. You are more likely to get credit and/or advanced placement from top tier schools with AP scores. CLEPs are shorter, cheaper and easier. If your student is attending a school which accepts CLEP test scores - go for it. Some colleges will only accept CLEP scores from test taken AFTER you are admitted and/or matriculated. In pursuing any of these outside test options, know the college and what you want from the test. Do not let anyone give you a "this applies to all situations" because I KNOW that isn't true.

I wouldn't waste any time reading spinoffs (with one exception). Most of them use only the characters but not Jane Austen's "voice". And some of them are quite explicit about married relations. I do, however, enjoy the mystery series by Stephanie Barron. She writes using Jane as a character and her novels follow Jane's real life chronology. She has a voice similar to Austen's and you get a lot of facts (factoids/tidbits) about Jane's life. And I really like mysteries, so there you go.

where are you in Oregon (I'm originally from North Bend). Would Seattle be a shorter trip? We have four professional "in-the-park" productions (FREE) and if you come the right weekend, you can get all four in. Search for "Greenstage" and "Wooden O".

Get thee to a library and find "Shakespeare Stories" by Leon Garfield. These are my absolute favorite retellings. He keeps a lot of the original language and clearly elucidates the plot (including complications, character mix-ups, etc.). Pick a story - read it out loud to your children. (I would do "Much Ado", "Henry V", "12th night", "Midsummer Night's Dream", "Hamlet", or "MacBeth") Find a film version. There are many - some plays have more than others. People have mentioned Branagh's "Much Ado" and "Henry V". They are both excellent. There are some bare bottoms (male) in "Much Ado" and a window scene which implies sexual activity. There are some graphic war scenes in "Henry V". I don't remember much to worry about in the Helena Bonham Carter version of "12th night" but I space out about that stuff sometimes. DD says Kevin Klein "Midsummer" is okay and we watched the McKellan/Dench "MacBeth". Then go see a play. And your kids will be hooked. Last year I read the story of "Midsummer" to my 9yo and 13 yo niece (and my 10yo and 13 yo daughters) and 6 yo nephew. We made fairy headdresses then went to see it performed in a local park. The 13yo niece had told me previously she 'hated' Shakespeare. I told her to wait and see. She LOVED it. The 9yo was falling over with laughter because she understood what was gong on. Even the 6yo was with us for most of the play (got a little tired at the end). If you want to follow that up with reading, fine. Otherwise, just enjoy!

we only did four of the Tales and now I can't remember exactly which ones (I remember the stories, but not their titles). I think one of the most important parts of CT is the prologue Just learning the different characters is such a rich portrait of medieval life. I did have my students memorize (and recite) the first fourteen lines of the prologue. In my 'research' (haha) I did find out that the beginning of the prologue is a parody of the Romance of the Rose. He spends those first few lines really setting us up for a lusty romance (spring, birds, bees, lots of fertility symbols) and then says - and it makes people - feel like going on a pilgramage! kind of makes you understand that the whole story is somewhat tongue in cheek. i think chaucer likes all his characters but he is definitely having fun with them as well. I thought Beowulf, CT and then Shakespeare showed a nice progression in the English language and how it changed. We could barely recognize any of the "Old English" Beowulf, could read but maybe not pronounce Chaucer while Shakespearean English is so close to our own compared to the other two. Also CT works well to introduce and identify the concept of a narrative frame. If you are teaching a class you could come up with a frame device and everyone write their own stories to fit in the frame.

I will stake a stab at answering this. some people don't 'do' Gilgamesh. It is not part of the western canon. It was not discovered or translated until the late 1800's. so you won't see other great books refer to it. But SWB does include it in her lists. It is the first piece of recorded literature (probably written down before Moses wrote the Pentateuch) and it is interesting to see many of the things that DO occur in later literature show up here - what is the role of a king? how do men relate to gods? what is man's problem? and what is the solution to that problem? I also appreciated that this was Abraham's background. To understand Gilgamesh is to understand the culture that God called Abraham OUT of. Omnibus talks about friendship as one of the themes of Gilgamesh. When first discovered and translated many people were thrilled to have some type of 'outside verification' of the flood from a secular source. Using the two flood stories (in Bible and Gilgamesh) make for a good compare and contrast essay. Interestingly enough, in one version there is a story of Gilgamesh sending Enkide to the underworld. Over the course of the year we also read about Odysseus and Aeneas visiting the underworld. We then looked at when Jesus descended and how his visit was completely different. there is a whole theory of scriptural interpretation out there that says the gospels (or at least Mark) are written firmly in the tradition of epic. I don't necessarily believe it but epic was a form familiar to at least some of the original readers of scripture and reading the gospels with that interpretation in mind is interesting. I also thought it significant that when Gilgamesh was confronted with Enkidu's death (should I have put spoilers under a cut?) was "this is going to happen to me!! what can i do??" not concern for his friend. There's an episode of "Next Generation" where Picard tells the story of Gilgamesh and Enkidu to an alien captain. He is seen, at the end of the show, reading the Odyssey - in Greek. I love to show that clip!

we were in an academic co-op for five years and it was totally worth being away for a day. This last year we were in a co-op (okay, it is coop, which always makes me think of chickens orco-op?) which was less intense but still not fluff. I would not do a co-op for brainteasers and mind games, but chess and drama would be, to my mind "less academic, but not fluff". Only you can say is it worth being away from home a day. Do you have to teach? be in attendance? Can you drop your kids and do something else (now THAT would be worth a day to me - haha) Those would factor in my decision as well (like Lori I LOVE to teach so having that option fulfills something in me and usually makes our participation less expensive. It is a hard decision, may the Lord lead you to the BEST, not simply the GOOD!

I did not prep for the PSAT (and was a semi-finalist) or the SAT (scored a 1430 in 1974) or the GRE (can't remember my score) but got into grad school at Chicago and Berkeley and University of Oregon. But I think it is a different place now. My son did not want to prep and my oldest dd does not want/need the test. My next dd will take the PSAT starting this year (9th). It will be a good practice for her and will also qualify as the standardized test we WA homeschoolers are required to to have our students take (our other option is evaluation by a certificated teacher currently active in education). We will prep for PSAT, SAT, and hopefully an AP or two.

I think you were quite clear. The teacher (whether mom, or outsourced) gives a grade for the class that prepares a student to take the AP exam. The AP exam score (1 - 5) is what is transmitted to colleges and will earn (or not) advanced placement or credit. There might be some small confusion about what qualifies as an AP course. You can only call a course "AP Bio" if the syllabus has been approved by College Board ( and I know homeschool moms have gotten such approval). However you can call your course "Advanced Biology", "Honors Biology" or whatever and your student can take the AP test. Another point I haven't seen discussed here is the difference between advanced placement and earned credits. Some colleges (continuing to use Bio as the example) will let student 'skip' Introductory Biology, with a good enough test score, and go to the next class, but the student may not get credit for the intro class. All of this is so dependent on the college and the department. I think AP tests are great for outside verification and proof of rigour. How much money/time they save an individual student depends completely on the college. And, to answer OP's original question. I would say "An AP class is a introductory college level class in a subject, taught in a high school, but generally to college standards. At the end of the year a student may take an AP test; the test score, if good enough, can often be used for advanced placement or credit when the student attends college. As homeschoolers, it also provides outside verification of our academic standards." Blessings,

It's your homeschool, you can do what you want - really! The real question here is "what do you want those credits to do?" do you want her to 'graduate' early? Are you looking to buld an outstanding transcript for admission to highly selective colleges? Will she be at a community college for one or two years before going to a 4 year institute? Will she pursue technical training of some kind? Generally, however, colleges won't acknowledge credits earned in 7th or 8th grade. If you do Algebra I in 8th grade, that is pretty much 'proven' by taking Algebra II and Geometry in 9th and 10th grades. some colleges (University of Washington for example) ONLY look at the previous four years of work, so taking a gap year would work against you as would trying to earn credits in earlier years. Even if your surrounding public schools give high school credit for Algebra I in 8th grade (which I have heard about) doesn't mean the college your child ultimately attends will acknowledge it. But if you want her to accumulate credits so you can 'graduate' her early, or she has an easier workload (or time to pursue individual interests) in later years, you certainly can. And only you know if it is the right thing for your daughter. My dd is a rising 9th grader this year and she will be finishing Algebra I over the summer as well as doing a marine biology course (using her older brother's cc textbook). I haven't decided if I will count it for high school or not. And we are doing it during the summer because we are SO relaxed about doing school, we kind of have to keep at it all the time. I belive in an extended period of time for high school (3-4 years at home and 2 years at a community college). I can tell you I am much happier sending my 19 year old son to the air force academy than if he shipped out while he was still 17 (and just finished with home school high school). I realize that my flexibility in this area is possible because of our generous dual enrollment here in Washington state. Not everyone has those options. all the best to you and your daughter (And I'm with Lori - lots of together time, really they want to be independent and grown up soon enough. Another reason for Marine Biology this summer is low tide days, a whale watching field trip, etc, etc.)

congrats to you and your son! even though he has enough credits might you want to NOT graduate him? my kids had lots of credits but i thought it didn't hurt to keep that high school status until it was very clear what their next step would be. some colleges are less than thrilled about gap years and some (many?)scholarships are not available for transfer students (which i think he would be if he 'graduated' and then did CC courses). Just something to think about.