GA is simple. YOu must submit a Declaration of Intest by September 1 or within 30 days of starting your program. Adult must be a HS grad or equiv. Program should include the regular basics but not be limited to the basics. 180 days of instruction. They just changed from submitting attendance every month to once a year on the last day of instruction. Forms are submitted to the State instead of the local School Board. Student must take a standardized test every 3 years starting in 3rd grade (results are for your records only). Write a summary of the school year (for your records only). It was easy to follow the rules before and it's easier this year since they've changed record submission to annually instead of monthly. Here's the info from the State: http://www.gadoe.org/Curriculum-Instruction-and-Assessment/Pages/Home-Schools.aspx

I agree with most of what's already been said, both it terms of strategy and motivation. His comparison of where he is compared to his peers stands out and leads me to an issue with motivation. Starting over is certainly a possible solution. It would put him closer to where his peers are and if he managed to honestly do the work he would have a strong foundation. Another possibility is to start with the first test from that level (NOT the Saxon placement test) and walk forward, giving each test until he stumbles. That's what Art Reed suggests when a student appears to already know the material. Jim

We were told by a Rainbow Resourse rep that there were two editions. To ensure my prior statement I went to both the Dive site and Rainbow resource and, yes, there are two editions. It is called DIVE Compass Saxon. It's the same price and the Rainbow site suggests visiting the other description for full information. They must be nearly identical. When I reviewed the christian version there was a statement of faith prior to the first lesson. I doubt there was anything stated that would cause someone to turn away, unless they were complete nonbelievers. About every 5 lessons there is the reminder to honor the parents that have provided an education, computer, and DVD. I think everyone can live with that.

We started using the Dive dvd this year. We're fans of Art Reed but understand his videos don't start until the next book. It's important to remember than neither Art Reed or the Dive instructor can use the examples from the book due to copyright laws. Only the official program Saxon Teacher can follow the book lesson exactly. Art's videos are of him teaching the lesson as an instructor might do in the classroom. Dive is a whiteboard with a vioce. There are two versions of Dive. One contains a few mentions of religion but nothing earth shattering. The second has those comments removed. So far, I'd suggest is took very little editing. We're only a couple weeks into the book so my opinion might change as the lessons become more challenging but it's a nice addition. I like that different examples are used. It extends the lesson as was stated earlier. I still suggest to ds that he both read the lesson (they're certainly short enough) and watch the lesson before moving on to the problems - every single one of them. I'm worried that next year we'll have have to by both the next Dive disk and Art Reed's version to see which we like the best. That'll be an investment of approximately $100. Jim

A lesson a day is way fast. I believe they suggest a lesson a week or so. We watched the assignment on day 1. If we wanted we went ahead and created the kwo. The next day we tested the kwo by have ds retell the story in his own words. If that worked well he would write a rough draft on day three. On day four we would go over it and discuss the required tools, who/which clause etc. A re-write was completed by the end of the week. Most lessons included back up paragraphs if eextra paractice was needed and we did many of those since we were not in a rush. We started in third grade and did not find it overwhelming. It was just about right and we were doing WWE at the same time. Jim

I'm sorry, but that's so sad. I'm not saying it's untrue. But it highlights the trend toward looking like something your not. It's all about looking the part instead of living the part. I can dress like a pro ball player but that won't make me one. And the result of this game is lower standards so everyone can check the box and say they accomplished something when, in reality, most only learned to check a box and did not learn the material. For many, that's the reason they don't send their children to ps (though there certainly are other reasons). Where does it end? In Georgia, where we have the Hope Scholarship hs teachers often admit they "give" grades so they won't be responsible for a student to not "earn" the aid. Instead of the grade on tests they grade improvement from where the child started - so if you averaged 20% at the start of the year but by year end you're averaging 50% that's a success and you earned an A. That has led to a larger percentage of college freshman requiring remedial coursework in math and writing, which puts them behind in their coursework and increases costs. Hope is going broke because its being given to students that didn't truely earn it. A higher percentage of those receiving the aid lose it after their first year in college because when they actually have to work for the grades they can't keep them up. They didn't have to put in the effort in hs. Yes, they checked the box but they didn't learn the basics of the subject and, for many, the plan backfires and down the road Hope might not be there for deserving students. I hold to the idea that you should do your best. Stretch to the edge of your ability. Fight to succeed despite being out of your comfort zone. That's how I treated my hs years and it's the lesson that has stuck with me for the 30 years since. It's still applicable each and every day. It's perhaps the most valuable lesson learned. Funny, this off-topic discussion started between two posters that I alway take the time to read. That should be taken as a compliment by both. Jim

Given your handle, tranquilMind my story is a sleeper. I had second thoughts about adding that and those that know me well will be the first to say that I rarely will take credit for how fortunate I've been over my career. I tend to say it was pure luck but they say you create luck. Anyway... It's actually very boring to most. But, as a teenage I became interested in the financial markets. I would dream of sitting in a dark office watching the price of stocks, interest rate products, and currrency pairs. Arriving at a decision regarding the future trends I would write a report and slip it under the door. This was before the internet so it would be copied and sent to interested readers. Thirty years later, I sit in an office, watch values click by, do research, and once a report is written (several times a day) hit a button and it's posted on the web for interested readers to access. In school, math was my strong point but it turned out that expressing my opinion in the written form is essential and that has never proven my strong point. But school never ends and I've improved as ds has moved through grammar. Back on topic, sort of. There weere a few comments about the ivy school and then the rest. I struggled through HS. Not so much grade wise, I was a solid student. But the school decided I was smart and put me in classes with others that were actually smart. I never backed down. I stuck with the classes. I worked hard while my friends never had to even think about what we were doing. AP class after AP class and they slept and I struggled. (I used this as the subject for the essays written as part of the college entry process.) I was a true learner because I pushed to the edge of my ability, always stretching, even when teacher after teacher suggested I might back off and take an easier class to push my GPA a bit higher. No way, my friends took these classes and so would I. I would push myself and if schools failed to respect that then they would not worthy of my efforts. It did get me an early process interview with MIT, which I had no business attending. The person I spoke with spent considerable time with me and encouraged me to apply. He thought I had a reasonable chance to be accepted, though not based on grades but effort. The discussion turned to what my effort would have to look like to succedd there. We agreed I would likely fail in the effort. But, to their credit, the rep was encouraging. Entrance decisions are made for many different reasons, not just grades. Education is more than a checklist. It was true then and I believe it is still true today. You do your best. You push a bit beyond your skill set and that's when learning really begins.

I'm can't count the number of times I've read that but reading it does not make it true. For $30 you can try Fix-It, which will last several years. Combined with a couple other reference manuals you could get started. If you don't like it either after an inital review or after using it for years, they will refund 100% of the purchase price and covering shipping to boot. Their writing products cost more but can be used for many years and over multiple students, especially if you combine it with other subjects. Also, the resale value of their products is strong and they support a board dedicated to that. Having watched if for a couple years I'd say recouping up to 75% of your investment is reasonable. So given the ability to return it if it does not fit your needs, the ability to use it over a long period of time, and its resale value I don't believe it's expensive at all. Jim

As always, there is merit to seeing something in real life. Grammar is no different. Seeing at work is a great way to learn it. I can see both points of view on this one, though I don't believe that being able to speak reasonably well translates to writing well. We've finished FLL 4 and will be starting Hake 5 within a few days but I wonder about dropping the whole thing and stressing reading/writing and teaching grammar through those assignments. We've used Fix-It along side FLL. Lessons are short, since we're leaning on the knowledge from FLL. If used alone the lesson would stretch out as you explained the fine points. It could work but we've been unwilling to change. In regard to Fix-It, we like it. It's short and ds has learned to edit. We can see the knowledge learned in FLL put to use. I'm not sure if we used Fix-It alone he would have the same grasp. Each lesson (4x/week) has a few sentences that need editing for punctuation, homonyms, etc. We picj out strong verbs, -ly adverbs and the other tools EWI stresses in their writing programs. For about $30 you get four classic stories that should span four years along with a resource book that explains the fine points. Given their willingness to refund 100% of the cost for any reason it's worth taking a look. Jim

In my day, early 80s, Alg 1 in 9th, geo and Alg 2 in 10th, trg in 11th, and calc in 12th. Most of my friends went to Ivy schools after following that path. Many became doctors. One is a top engineer involved in the early stages of all the handheld devises everyone just loves now. He was developing them for the well-known folks by the late 80s. The old track works. For me, it's about mastery. Ds will be ready when he is ready. We will work as fast as his maturity allows but no faster. Me, I went to 4 schools in 4 years and never lost a credit. No easy task and, I trhink, shows a real ability to negotiate with different administrations! We all have our own skill set. Nope, I'm not a doctor but I am one of the best in my field of work. Well, at least I think so. Jim

We've used both WWE and IEW's SWI-A and theme-based programs. First, wethought they dovetailed nicely with WWE working on the mental aspects of writing and IEW getting pen to paper using outlining and technical tools. Most are already familiar with WWE. It's open and go if using the workbooks. Lessons are short and painless. IEW seems more complicated, though it need not be so. We started with the full program, the disks that explain the program entirely and allow you to impliment it yourself and SWI-A. In the SWI-A Mr. P. teaches the lesson and leaves the child to complete the task. Each lesson adds a new tool, such as a new sentence opener or -ly adverb, to the toolbox available to the writer. It's important to understand that when practicing all the tools the result might sound odd. The goal is to practice all the tools. Later, as the writer matures they can decide when it's appropriate to use certain tools and to discard others (in the writing project at hand) and that will result in a polished product. I think this is the most misunderstood aspect of IEW's approach. As for the parent disks. There is no need to view them in total. When using the dvds the instructions will alert the adult when it's time to watch the next segment. I like to stay a section or two ahead so I see where we're headed. Many ask whether you need the parent dvds at all. If using the SWI series it's not necessary though I would recommend them. For the theme-based I think they are needed, unless you've already completed an SWI product. Like WWE, once you understand the program you could do it yourself. That's where the parent disks are required since you would need to understand each step. That could be you're only investment in writing over a number of years and any number of children and is, therefore, not as expensive as many believe. As to cost, The resale value of IEW products is strong, approaching 75% of new. They are non-consumable. And, if you purchase the program directly you can return the product at any time if you decide not to use it or feel it didn't work for you - no time limit. They pay shipping. Basically, they stand behind it and want you to be satisfied. I can't comment on WWS other to say I will probably buy the first phase to review. If it is a better fit for ds at the time we would consider switching or using both if it's not overwhelming. If it's anything like WWE I'm sure it will do the job. I also feel IEW does the job. Jim

We started and completed FLL 1/2 during ds second grade year. That was after we pulled him out of PS. They hadn't covered grammar so we decided to start from the beginning and we easily finished both levels in one year.

When that change was made and looking forward to to ds2 starting soon I asked the folks behind the WTM desk at two different shows about this. Both times it was suggested the changes were minor - Some of the pictures for the narrations were changed to fit with boys. They didn't seem to want to sell me the new books.

The instruction for WWE suggest that the parent watch for spelling mistakes as they are being made, stop and correct the child immediately. There is no benefit allowing them to misspell a word so this is an active process. It surprised me that ds was able to decode most of the words himself AND hold the rest of the sentence in his head during a correction then continue writing the dictation. But memory seems to be a strong point for him.

After using Saxon 3 and starting 5/4 I went ahead and bought the rest of the series. That says all I can say.

Hake appears written to the student, though we plan on covering the short lessons with ds before setting him free to complete the exercises. We're starting it in the fall.

We use it and my sons spelling has improved greatly. Hard to say whether it's the program or maturity but we're continuing with it because it has worked for him.

The guide will have everything in it you will need, broken down by week. From it, you can create your own flash cards if you do decide to try the memory work. All the rest, including the cds, are for convenience. They do make life easier and the cds are a hit with my boys, including our 5 yo who can recite most of the cycle 3 history sentences and many of the science facts. They do work. To her credit, our leader is quick to say that you need very little other than the guide. Jim

Reading through the replies the Seinfeld episode when Jerry threatens and then does go to someone's job to comment on their work came to mind. (They had mocked him during his act.) But Pen beat me to the idea. We had the same reaction. "Don't do it." "What about social interation?" We've come to the point where the in-laws and both they and my mom at least admit they're sure we can cover the material needed and teach the skills required. My mom will ask about what will happen when middle school arrives. Of course the issue of the classroom experience comes up from time to time. Well, I've leave that one alone. That would be preaching to the wrong crowd.

We're shifting over to Hake (Saxon) 5. We will miss FLL. It has served us well.

I have the newer edition but I still bottow the first edition from the library. History is handled differently and I like to look for changes that have occurred over the years. In fact, the book is a day overdue!

We're moving to Saxon 5. Similar to the math program, written to the student and lots of problems to work through.

Grammar is similar to Math prior to Algebra and histort (think 3-4 year cycle, in that it repeats, increasing the level of difficulty at each level. This is clear in regard to history when done the WTM way. I wouldn't skip. I've come to learn just how important grammar is and wish I would have grasp it at the appropriate time. I'm learning it now, using FLL and soon Saxon 5.

If it's working I'd stick with it. 5/4 is much different than the prior levels but the writing is really just showing your work, not necessarily re-writing every problem. We split the assignment up. Completing the Mental Math portion, read the lesson, and do the proctice problems together. Ds does half the problems at that point. The remainder are homework. I would not pick and chose problems or do odds or evens. We're believers that the program was written a certain way for a reason so we complete each and every problem, as designed. Jim

We'll be starting Saxon/Hake 5 in the fall after completing FLL 4 and plan to continue using IEW's spelling program.