They thought it would be easy. They believe those blogs that say homeschooling will only take 2 hours a day and can be done 100% for free.

You are preaching to the choir, sister. This is a huge part of why I stopped running my local homeschool group. The list of "requirements" to get people to attend was contradictory every time. They want it outdoors, but the woman with 12 kids didn't want a park day because she was afraid she'd lose her kids at the park since she has so many of them, so she only wanted an indoor event, but only if it was free, because she couldn't afford a paid event since she had 12 kids. I told her that since I only had 1 child, I didn't really know how to meet the needs of very large families, so she would need to organize events that meet her specific needs of being indoors, free, and large family-friendly with high-value educational opportunities for all children ranging in age from 18 months to 18 years. I never heard back from her, except for a few complaints that filtered my way a few months later. We set up a party at a small, FREE splash pad. Another mom wrote to complain that she didn't like the splash pad and besides, it would be hot that day, and couldn't we have the party at a different place and time and date, because she didn't like being hot. Oh yes, let me re-organize a party and tell the other 18 people who rsvp'd that we need to change everything about the party because YOU don't like the temperature outside. I've also seen complaints lately from people wanting a free or low-cost place they can drop their kids off for several hours a day, where the kids can learn and socialize while mom works or does housework. Um...that's SCHOOL. Oh no, they don't want that. They want a homeschool school, which is school but not school (?!). So basically, you want school without any obligation to the district and zero skin the the game. Gotcha. Meh.

The "contact list" comes when you OR your friends use a facebook app and it says "You agree to share your name, info, *and /friends/contact list* with facebook and it's partner 'Blah blah Blah App Corporation'". That's why you end up with car advertisers for places you don't live. Your friends live there, and one of them used a facebook app that granted access to their friend list and/or the contact list on their phone. Your info then gets sold to various advertisers. And as far as I know, there's nothing you can really do about it, because it's your friends handing out your info. You can choose to opt out of advertising, but that does nothing to keep your Great Aunt Bubbles from clicking "Ok!" when Candy Crush says "By using this app, you are agreeing to give access to your location, your phone microphone, your camera, your contact list, your friends list, etc". Welcome to Big Data.

I see this a lot in my area. The local homeschool fb groups are full of people sighing and crying about how bored and lonely they and their children are. But they never come out to anything! We had a few moms that would come to park days and stand away from people and not talk to anyone. They later complained they felt excluded. Lady, I walked up, introduced myself, tried to engage you in conversation, introduced you to everyone else at the park day, and you still wouldn't sit down and join us at the picnic table to chat. I'm not really sure what else I can do to help you feel included. I quit running my town's fb group because I was worn down from people expecting opportunities to be a) tailor-made to their very nit-picky specific interests and family dynamics and b) require absolutely no effort, cost, or thought. There was one mom that has 12 kids and wanted me to set up a field trip *just for her family*, and was annoyed/confused when I declined to set that up for her. No one else on the trip! Just her and her kids! And I'd never even met her, either!

Oh my gosh, I had that happen to me in college! Thankfully it was only during a rehearsal. The guy not only swiped my chair by showing up late and shoving an extra chair at the end, (rather than take his regular seat), but when it was time for my solo, he just started playing it over me! The entire orchestra, including the conductor, just *stared* at the dude. And this was at a music college! Like, dude! You KNOW how this works, and this is not it! Lol

See, I get the impression she doesn't want him to move out at all, but she *does* want him to show more appreciation for the financial support he is receiving, and it's being couched as "respect my need for sleep".

You said a few pages back, when someone suggested your son take on more adult responsibilities and start paying his own bills, "It's not that simple", and said how you and your xh made an agreement with him that dad would pay for X and you'd pay for Y. So yeah, you did imply that the arrangement couldn't be changed when you said "It's not that simple" when someone suggested it.

Wow.

I thought you said he gets free room and board because this was an arrangement you made with your ex husband? You implied the arrangement couldn't be changed because it was one that was made with your ex and not your son, and that's why your son couldn't pay for his own car insurance and phone.

That just sounds like sour grapes. I don't know if you and Cat have some sort of history that would make you lash out, but you're coming across nasty. Is that your intention?

But you said up thread that it wasn't an issue of noise. You said it was your body anticipating his arrival. So the size of Cat's home and whether she hears her kids come home late at night is irrelevant.

@OKBudMaybe not a bad thing, but I do think it's important to disengage a little once the "kids" become adults. My father and stepmother took everything so flippin' personally, (with me and my half-siblings), and it led to very hurt feelings for the parents.

It's very normal. I remember this struggle with my own parents so well. They took it SO personally when I made different choices from them, including staying out later than they thought was "necessary".

This isn't a moral-high-ground kind of issue. You two want different things.

Then it's time for him to move out. Congrats, you've just discovered that you two are no longer compatible living partners. He isn't unreasonable for wanting to stay out past 11 pm. You aren't unreasonable for wanting your home run a certain way. But you're both unreasonable in expecting the other to simply get over it and bend to the other's will. Time for him to move out.

Why are you calling them and sending greeting cards? They have insulted you, insulted your children, called you names when you are with your children, yelled and screamed at you, and threatened to have your kids taken from you via the court system and CPS...and you are sending them greeting cards? Why?! What outcome are you looking for in this situation? How bad do things have to get with them before you are willing to really cut them off?

DS10 takes an art class that will continue this summer. Other than that, we plan to meet up with friends at local splash pads, pools, etc. We bowl and see lots of movies during the summer. No camps!

My approach is likely to be more extreme than others will recommend, but I believe you have a potentially dangerous situation on your hands with your in-laws that goes beyond what is happening at the library. I think you are wise to be concerned about this situation getting worse. It often *does* get much worse when the harrassers feel they are losing control over their victim. That your estranged in-laws think they are entitled to circumvent you and your spouse to access your children is way beyond bold. People that do this are undermining you and hope to drive your children away from you and straight to them. They will escalate their actions until they get what they want. If they can't get what they want (the children), they'll settle for causing as much drama and distress as possible. This won't stop with the library books. Make sure all of your information with doctors, therapists, schools, camps, pharmacies, etc is on lock-down. I would not put it past one of your in-laws to try to get information about your kids and/or you without your consent, especially if they can use that info against you. If you all live in a small town, it would be easy for someone to play the card: "I'm just a nice old granny/aunty! How can you not trust a nice, little old lady?!". They could try to pick your kids up from school, cancel doctor appointments, (especially if they disagree with how you handle your children's health), pick up prescriptions that you need and destroy them, etc. Doctor offices and pharmacies can set up a password that must be given to access info. You can tell the pharmacy that only you and your spouse can pick up meds and insist that either a password be used or that ID must be shown. Make sure your inlaws cannot tamper with your mail. If you manage to stop them from leaving notes in library books, they'll move on to mailing letters and leaving packages for the kids. Maybe you can get a locking mail box, I don't know if that's available near you. If they have already threatened to sue for grand-parents rights/visitation and threatened you with CPS visits, you need to schedule a consultation with a lawyer. Most lawyers will do a 1 hour free consultation. Don't think the in-laws aren't serious with this threat. They may be simply waiting to see if you'll cave without them going to the bother of suing you. It is likely too soon to get a restraining order, because they haven't done anything overtly threatening, but you *can* get the lawyer to write a cease and desist letter, which will send the message that you are not going to roll over and let the in-laws have access to the kids. I would also forget about going to therapy with these people. They aren't interested in healing the relationship. They'd likely just use what they glean from therapy to further manipulate and abuse you and the kids, (and yes, this is abuse). And whatever you do, do NOT let them take the kids, not even for an hour. Best case scenario, they'd spend the visit bad-mouthing you to your children. Worst case scenario, they refuse to return the kids to you. Please remember that it is not un-Christian to protect yourself from abuse. You can love someone and pray for them without subjecting yourself and your children to hostility and abuse.

Bring your existing seats and rent a car in Florida if you find the seats do not fit in the grandparents' car. If you rent a mini-van, you can fit more people in the car for trips, which may help shut down arguments about how silly all of this car seat business is, ("I hear you, mom and dad, but the mini-van means we can all ride together. Besides, the kids are used to riding in their regular seats").

Don't beat yourself up. I have backed out on this exact thing. I said I would do ABC for a co-op. The co-op agreed to ABC and then added on more responsibility than I wanted to take on. I wrote them and said "I'm so sorry, but after reviewing my schedule, I am not going to be able to participate in Acme Homeschool Co-op like we discussed on XYZ date". If your friend presses you for reasons, you can simply state "This just works best for my family right now". Remind yourself that there really isn't anything to debate on the topic. The co-op isn't going to work right now. Why? It just isn't going to. But whyyyyyy? "This just works best for us right now". Wash, rinse, repeat.

Does she have toys to play with at night, to keep her occupied? Cat tree, a play tunnel, jingle balls, toy mice?

I guess it's not my night as well. I can't exactly figure it out, either. Maybe it's in reaction to the "Mental Load" threads?

I suppose I'd let DS do it if he really wanted to. I woudn't be ok with those large ear plugs that stretch out the lobe, however. I doubt DS would want any sort of piercing, though. It's not his thing.

I'd be annoyed and feel like he was nagging me. I would probably also walk out of the dmv if my husband started an argument with one of the workers there.

Funny enough, I was just thinking about what my hopes were for DS10. College is fine, some sort of skilled trade/certificate program is fine, joining the military is fine. I mostly just hope that he has a plan for his future, some sort of path he wants to travel down, that will lead to him having interesting work, good relationships, and being self-supporting. I was so very aimless when I graduated high school, was shuffled off to college without a clue, and then failed spectacularly. I hope he does not follow my lead.