Another s/o of the Ham debacle - HSLDA vs HLA

[ELaurie]

I hope we can discuss this without rancor, as I'm sincerely seeking accurate information and perspective.

 

Before we began home schooling, I attended a conference sponsored by Illinois Christian Home Educators. Chris Klicka was one of the speakers, and I was impressed by his humility as he fought for the rights of home schooling families while struggling with debilitating MS.

 

When we began home schooling, I joined HSLDA. I was unaware of other alternatives, and while I sometimes questioned the positions they took on broader issues, it still seemed that the benefits of membership outweighed the disadvantages.

 

In light of the kerfluffle, I am reevaluating this.

 

I attended the conference in Cinncy, and received a complimentary membership in HLA. Coincidently, our membership in HSLDA is up for renewal, and I have not responded.

 

I'm also aware of the role HSLDA recently played when Senator Maloney in IL attempted to limit the freedom of homeschooling families by requiring registration to ensure that home schoolers are not "truant."

 

I was glad HSLDA represented home schooling families, but did not like the fact (pointed out by Dirty Ethel Rachman aka Ellen) that they initially did not include a representative for home schooling families in IL who are not Christian. This event was the genesis for my reevaluation of our membership in HSLDA.

 

Now I see that Doug Phillips was a lawyer for HSLDA, and that he is taking Ken Ham's side in the kerfluffle.

 

Honestly, I don't want anything to do with supporting Ken Ham, or those who are supporting him.

 

I plan to read the materials from HLA late this afternoon, but would also appreciate the perspectives that might be offered by people here.

 

Thanks y'all.

[Lostinabook]

Last year I basically held my nose and signed up with HSLDA. I am very conservative, but I don't like the political positioning HSLDA does & I have read various articles about how they've made things *more* difficult for homeschoolers in some places. This year we joined HLA. I like that their focus is on homeschooling alone. As far as I can tell they have no wider political agenda.

[FloridaLisa]

Really, I can't imagine that the core beliefs of the two organizations are that different. On the large spectrum of philosophical diversity, both organizations have founding attorneys that are conservative, Bible-believing and pro-life. And I like and appreciate many of the attorneys associated with both groups. HSLDA has intervened for two of my good friends on three very important issues. HSLDA resolved the issues quickly and favorably. I've always admired Chris Klicka. Loved book and appreciate his years of service.

 

HLA was founded by David Gibbs, most notably the attorney for Terri Schiavo. This was a Florida case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and President Bush. This was a pro-life/end-of-life case. I called senators and appeared at a Capitol rally on behalf of Terri Schiavo. I've read Gibb's book on the case and really deeply appreciate and agree with his stance on the issue.

 

I'm just beginning to research the need for both organizations. I thought perhaps it was a simply a market share issue. (I see that everyone gets a free will. Classic foot in the door. A simple will doesn't suffice in many, many situations. In that case, the attorney would then recommend a trust or other documents that would cost much more. That my initial thought when I saw this being given away at the South Carolina convention.

 

Lisa

 

P.S. The PP notes that HLA has no political agenda outside of representing homeschoolers. I just don't think you've seen it yet. :001_smile: There must be, at bottom, a political or philosophical underpinning which will lead HLA to take some cases, but not others. To make some arguments, but not others. To argue against or for certain positions, regulations, statutes, court cases, interpretations.

Edited April 6, 2011 by FloridaLisa

[kalanamak]

HLA was founded by David Gibbs, most notably the attorney for Terri Schiavo.

 

 

Actually, the Schindlers hired him. He was the attorney for the Schindlers.

[FloridaLisa]

Actually, the Schindlers hired him. He was the attorney for the Schindlers.

 

Yes, you are correct. I still think about that very difficult case.

 

Lisa

[Lostinabook]

The PP notes that HLA has no political agenda outside of representing homeschoolers. I just don't think you've seen it yet. :001_smile: There must be, at bottom, a political or philosophical underpinning which will lead HLA to take some cases, but not others. To make some arguments, but not others. To argue against or for certain positions, regulations, statutes, court cases, interpretations.

 

Oh, I know. That's why I said "as far as I can tell."

 

I also agree that HSLDA has done some good work. One of the reasons we went ahead & joined was that we knew someone they had helped through a really unpleasant situation. However, their political stuff and the implication that they represent all homeschoolers concern me. Again, I'm conservative so it's not even that I always disagree with them although it does bother me when they push for more laws rather than fewer laws.

[MeghanL]

HLA is tax-deductible because they are more inclusive of who they will represent. HSLDA is not tax-deductible because they will not represent same sex couples who homeschool (as one example).

 

As for politics, I don't see much difference. Since HLA is cheaper and tax-deductible I went with them.

[Rebecca VA]

Doug Phillips *used to be* an attorney for HSLDA. He went his own way at least 12 years ago. He is much more radical in his views than other HSLDA attorneys. For example, he doesn't believe in college and university education for Christians, and especially for girls. (He believes instead that one can home-educate or apprentice through higher-level material.) I don't think he quite approves of Patrick Henry College, which is affiliated with HSLDA. There are other differences.

 

You can't paint with that broad a brush. He doesn't work there anymore.

[Mother Superior]

David and Christine are pretty cool, aren't they?

 

I am an affiliate with HLA. If you have homeschooling troubles in Southern Illinois, I will represent you for free through HLA. (If you are in Northern Illinois, you might get Christine Field.) If you have other problems, no matter where you live, if it falls within my areas of specialty (adoption and special education law) I might be called in for a consult on your case. This is all done free of charge, and my time and the time of others in the HLA network is donated-- HLA is, first and foremost, a ministry. They represent homeschooling families nationwide.

 

HLA is a 501©3 corporation, which means that donations to them are tax deductible. 501©3's are not allowed to engage in lobbying or advocacy-- HLA has a different mission than HSLDA-- its purpose is only to represent homeschooling families whose rights are being impinged.

 

HSLDA is a 501©4. That's an important difference. 501©4's are primarily advocacy groups. HSLDA takes cases of members based on THAT purpose. THey have a number you can call if you have a truant officer on your doorstep, but representation may or may not happen.

 

My first homeschool conference was APACHE, the Peoria conference. I signed up for HSLDA and told the girl manning the booth that my husband and I were both attorneys and wanted to help out. She gave me Chris Klicka's card. I later e-mailed him and told him that I used to be an Appellate Prosecutor and would be glad to volunteer to help HSLDA. I received an e-mail back from an intern in their office asking about my husband and HIS willingness to help HSLDA out. :glare:

 

I later learned that they were not interested in me because I am female. This always bothered me, but for a few years I kept my membership in HSLDA. I eventually dropped it, though, because I learned more and more about their "vision" and I disliked it tremendously. HSLDA leaders promote a patriocentric "worldview" that degrades and demeans women. This was discussed by That Mom in two of her podcasts-- the August 15 and 21 podcasts address the "Leadership Summit" held by HSLDA. If you want copies of the cd's with the talks themselves, she has the link somewhere on her website. I would strongly urge EVERYONE to listen to BOTH of her series of podcasts on the Patriocentric Movement in homeschooling. They will open your eyes and make you sick to your stomach.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Mother Superior

[Mary in VA]

I don't want to get in a debate about HSLDA and HLA, to each his own. But I did want to point out the Doug Phillips worked with HSLDA a long time ago, right out of law school I believe. So he probably hasn't worked for them for 15-20 years.

 

Mary

[collinsmom1]

Thanks for this post! Lots to think about! I will be looking at each today, so I am pleased to have these nuggets of info as I start thinking this all through!

[Woodhaven]

I appreciate this discussion! Very helpful!

[G5052]

I think that if nothing else, it is valuable to clarify your own beliefs and think through where you put your $$$.

[GardenGirl639]

Thank you for this discussion.

[tex-mex]

HSLDA leaders promote a patriocentric "worldview" that degrades and demeans women. This was discussed by That Mom in two of her podcasts-- the August 15 and 21 podcasts address the "Leadership Summit" held by HSLDA. If you want copies of the cd's with the talks themselves, she has the link somewhere on her website. I would strongly urge EVERYONE to listen to BOTH of her series of podcasts on the Patriocentric Movement in homeschooling. They will open your eyes and make you sick to your stomach.

Ah-ha... now understanding more of Christine's question to Douglas Phillips of Vision Forum on KH's FB page. :huh: It makes total sense now. Thanks for the info!

[justamouse]

I later learned that they were not interested in me because I am female. This always bothered me, but for a few years I kept my membership in HSLDA. I eventually dropped it, though, because I learned more and more about their "vision" and I disliked it tremendously. HSLDA leaders promote a patriocentric "worldview" that degrades and demeans women. This was discussed by That Mom in two of her podcasts-- the August 15 and 21 podcasts address the "Leadership Summit" held by HSLDA. If you want copies of the cd's with the talks themselves, she has the link somewhere on her website. I would strongly urge EVERYONE to listen to BOTH of her series of podcasts on the Patriocentric Movement in homeschooling. They will open your eyes and make you sick to your stomach.

 

Get OUT!

 

Wow. I had *no* idea.

 

Also, I've never heard of HLA, so thank you so very much for this discussion! I live in a highly unregulated state, but you never know which neighbor you'll piss off. ;)

[justamouse]

I am listening to the podcasts and my jaw is on the floor, and you're right, I'm sick to my stomach. And so very, very sad.

[FO4UR]

David and Christine are pretty cool, aren't they?

 

I am an affiliate with HLA. If you have homeschooling troubles in Southern Illinois, I will represent you for free through HLA. (If you are in Northern Illinois, you might get Christine Field.) If you have other problems, no matter where you live, if it falls within my areas of specialty (adoption and special education law) I might be called in for a consult on your case. This is all done free of charge, and my time and the time of others in the HLA network is donated-- HLA is, first and foremost, a ministry. They represent homeschooling families nationwide.

 

HLA is a 501©3 corporation, which means that donations to them are tax deductible. 501©3's are not allowed to engage in lobbying or advocacy-- HLA has a different mission than HSLDA-- its purpose is only to represent homeschooling families whose rights are being impinged.

 

HSLDA is a 501©4. That's an important difference. 501©4's are primarily advocacy groups. HSLDA takes cases of members based on THAT purpose. THey have a number you can call if you have a truant officer on your doorstep, but representation may or may not happen.

 

My first homeschool conference was APACHE, the Peoria conference. I signed up for HSLDA and told the girl manning the booth that my husband and I were both attorneys and wanted to help out. She gave me Chris Klicka's card. I later e-mailed him and told him that I used to be an Appellate Prosecutor and would be glad to volunteer to help HSLDA. I received an e-mail back from an intern in their office asking about my husband and HIS willingness to help HSLDA out. :glare:

 

I later learned that they were not interested in me because I am female. This always bothered me, but for a few years I kept my membership in HSLDA. I eventually dropped it, though, because I learned more and more about their "vision" and I disliked it tremendously. HSLDA leaders promote a patriocentric "worldview" that degrades and demeans women. This was discussed by That Mom in two of her podcasts-- the August 15 and 21 podcasts address the "Leadership Summit" held by HSLDA. If you want copies of the cd's with the talks themselves, she has the link somewhere on her website. I would strongly urge EVERYONE to listen to BOTH of her series of podcasts on the Patriocentric Movement in homeschooling. They will open your eyes and make you sick to your stomach.

 

 

Thanks for this post. Very informative!

[Tutor]

As for politics, I don't see much difference. Since HLA is cheaper and tax-deductible I went with them.

 

Same here.

[simka2]

I will just give my personal experience. I went to a Christian convention last year HSLDA was at. I was going into my 1st official year of homeschooling and thought it would be prudent to have a membership just in case. I sat down and spoke with the lead attorney who was there (and as a speaker). Once I let him know that I was resonably well educated, versed in the laws of my state, and from a family of attorneys he lost interest in me. There was an immediate change in his demeanor from "How can I help you, you sweet young mother?" To an immediate wall of steel as if I had some sickness he would catch. I decided it might be my imagination, and went to here him speak. I was miserable thru the whole session. It was soooooooo fear based! "The government is out to get you, so you need us." I couldn't sign up after all that. :glare:

[Slartibartfast]

I wasn't intending to join the HSLDA because they are so political but this is so much worse than I could ever have imagined!!

 

:willy_nilly:

[ELaurie]

you have provided here. I appreciate the resources listed here as dh and I sort this out.

[Lostinabook]

Here's one person's commentary on why she does not support HSLDA.

[elegantlion]

I will just give my personal experience. I went to a Christian convention last year HSLDA was at. I was going into my 1st official year of homeschooling and thought it would be prudent to have a membership just in case. I sat down and spoke with the lead attorney who was there (and as a speaker). Once I let him know that I was resonably well educated, versed in the laws of my state, and from a family of attorneys he lost interest in me. There was an immediate change in his demeanor from "How can I help you, you sweet young mother?" To an immediate wall of steel as if I had some sickness he would catch. I decided it might be my imagination, and went to here him speak. I was miserable thru the whole session. It was soooooooo fear based! "The government is out to get you, so you need us." I couldn't sign up after all that. :glare:

 

I know when we first started homeschooling all the support group leaders were pushing membership. I couldn't understand why it was necessary. Sounded a lot like pre-paid legal services to me.

 

I follow the law of the state, printed from the states website, not from what someone told me. It seemed like fear mongering to me.

[Jayson]

Here's one person's commentary on why she does not support HSLDA.

 

wow, interesting!! especially the links in that post.