Helping Children Choose a Career/College Major

[KingM]

Let me start by saying that I think the current higher education system is broken. It is a hybrid between the old classical education that was only affordable to the upper class and the old apprentice system of learning a trade. Kids go to college presumably to learn skills that will find them a job and then end up studying French, philosophy, and Shakespeare.

 

Now, I happen to speak French, love Shakespeare, and well...okay, so I'm not a huge student of philosophy, but I can see why other people like it. But the fact is that a college degree will cost a minimum of several tens of thousands of dollars in tuition, lost income, etc. What is the justification for doing so in a formal college environment rather than studying on one's own.

 

Frankly, for most people, it's to find a job. I don't think we're doing kids any favors by sending them off to a four year university to study theater or dance or even sociology. At the very least, it's important to sit down with our children and figure out the end game. One kid in a thousand who studies theater is going to end up in the movies or on Broadway. Almost any kid who gets an engineering degree is going to have prospects for a solid paying career the instant he or she graduates. The same goes for almost anything math or science related or in the medical fields. Among jobs that don't pay as well, there are still solid career options, such as in education.

 

I'm trying to teach my children about finances and careers in an age appropriate way. The two sides to financial security are income and expenditures. A lot of people I know in this world have a problem with either one or the other or both. They didn't give careers enough thinking in the early stage or they spend beyond their means.

 

In my case it is easier to show how credit cards can lead to financial insecurity than to show how fun majors in college can do the same thing. My middle son told me the day before yesterday that he wants to be a writer. I tried to explain to him that he could work on stories and novels even as he was pursuing a more traditional career. He wasn't buying it.

 

Neither did I at that age. It took me a few years of struggling before I figure out which way was up and took career paths more seriously.

 

I don't want to be one of those dads who pressures his kids into careers they'll hate, but I also want them to make the kinds of choices that will allow them to be financially successful in life.

[Julie in CA]

It seems like there is no clear consensus on the purpose of higher education to begin with--is it just there to prepare the students for financial success, or is it there to provide personal growth that becomes part of a fulfilling lifestyle regardless of the career path and how lucrative (or not) it may be?

 

I don't think we solved that question last time either! ;)

Here is the thread, in case it has anything of interest to you:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183286&highlight=Aubrey+degree+liberal+arts

[KingM]

To be clear, I'm in favor of studying the classical disciplines, but the cost of college has become so high and the discrepancy in earnings so different between different disciplines that I don't think most people can afford to get degrees in art history or French literature. We have to take responsibility to learn these subjects on our own and be more mercenary in our four year degrees.

[May]

Our oldest dd is a junior in college studying to become a speech and language pathologist. When she was trying to decide on a major, our guidance was, how does this degree translate into a job and how is the job market? Since we are paying for a major portion of her college, we wanted her to be able to support herself when finished with school. Now some may say this wasn't the correct approach. I respect the fact that every family needs to make decisions based on their circumstances.

[Twigs]

Here is a post I wrote in this thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169379) with some of my thoughts on this issue.

 

I'm going to throw out some thoughts based on my own experience. I have no children - I'm an adult here for my own self-education.

 

No one (parents, teachers, friends) ever talked to me about my strengths or weaknesses. No one ever said "You are good in math and science, here are some related jobs - like accouting, engineering, etc." or "You love books and reading - you should think about being a librarian. You will need to get a bachelor's degree and then a masters for that job. Your bachelor's can be in any field, so pick what you love."

 

My advice is to concentrate on their strengths, so they can make the most of those strengths. Put time into their weaknesses of course, but if your child is not a "________" person, he or she will NEVER be that (For example, I will never be a pro football player or opera singer, no matter how much time I spend trying to learn). IOW, don't force a round peg into a square hole.

 

We all need to know how to handle our personal and household finances, but not all of us will be stock brokers or financial analysists. We all need some basic first aid, nutrition, health, but we will not all be doctors or nurses.

 

Much of the joy of life is knowing what our strengths are and capitalizing on them. Focusing on our weaknesses is just :banghead: . With our weaknesses, good enough is good enough. With our strengths, aim for greatness.

 

 

I would have loved if an adult had taken an interest in me and my future and helped me understand financial needs (budgeting, taxes, insurance, retirement, rent, mortgage, etc.) and the best way to meet those needs, and that higher education / training is one of the best ways to meet those needs. I needed to have an adult confirm that math / science was my best area of strength and how to find out about suitable careers. Perhaps you could help your son find career paths that will match his desire to write, and then find a good major for him.

 

Here is a blog by SWB and her experience with an English major. I am putting this here because many people assume an English major is good prep for writing. One of my friends also majored in English because she wanted to write, but the major is all about the criticism http://www.welltrainedmind.com/preparing-for-college/english-majors-and-the-writing-life/.

 

Best Wishes

[littlebug42]

As someone with a theatre degree, let me offer my perspective. I understand exactly what you are saying regarding more practical degree choices. However, had I been forced into a more "practical"degree, like engineering, I would have been miserable and probably would not have even finished college. Not everyone is suited to go down those paths. Life in our society would be pretty dull if they were. You are correct that only one in a thousand theatre majors go on to be famous actors but that is not the only way we can contribute. Lucrative doesn't always equate to happiness. I regret nothing about the education I received although had I not done the private liberal arts college, I might not still be paying for it. :)

 

I want my children to pursue what will make them the happiest in life whether it be theatre or biology (oldest dd currently wants to do both). I think life is too short to do anything else.

[Carrie12345]

For me, it goes beyond the whole college/major debate to lifestyle discussions. You can be a high school drop out and still afford to feed and house yourself. Or you could have a PhD in XYZ and face bankruptcy.

 

The more my kids understand personal finance, the less I will be concerned about their career choices and the paths they take to get there.

[Mejane]

I think you can have it both ways. My ballet-dancing, psychology and english-loving daughter will be taking accounting classes this semester because she understands that, as much as learning for its own sake is a noble endeavor, being able to support oneself is also noble. ;)

[MindyD]

Here is a post I wrote in this thread (http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169379) with some of my thoughts on this issue.

 

 

 

I would have loved if an adult had taken an interest in me and my future and helped me understand financial needs (budgeting, taxes, insurance, retirement, rent, mortgage, etc.) and the best way to meet those needs, and that higher education / training is one of the best ways to meet those needs. I needed to have an adult confirm that math / science was my best area of strength and how to find out about suitable careers. Perhaps you could help your son find career paths that will match his desire to write, and then find a good major for him.

 

Here is a blog by SWB and her experience with an English major. I am putting this here because many people assume an English major is good prep for writing. One of my friends also majored in English because she wanted to write, but the major is all about the criticism http://www.welltrainedmind.com/preparing-for-college/english-majors-and-the-writing-life/.

 

Best Wishes

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[WarriorMama]

This troubles me also (luckily my kids are still pretty little so hopefully I have time to figure it out!). I don't think any education is a waste...but an awful lot of it won't provide much of a monetary return on your investment.

 

All of my friends with liberal arts degrees graduated, floundered, then did one of two things - took entry-level office jobs making a fraction more than they would have if they'd gotten the same job without a degree, or went to teacher's college because they had no idea what else to do. This happens a LOT around here...now we have a huge surplus of wanna-be teachers, few of whom have any real interest in education.

 

What I can't figure out is what they THOUGHT was going to happen when they graduated. There was no plan at all, just the blind assumption that degree = better than no degree.

 

The other problem I've noticed is that with the 'EVERYBODY must go to university' attitude, more and more kids are ending up there who really just aren't prepared for a higher-level education, and the education itself is being watered down to compensate. Around here first and sometimes second year courses are all too often a repetition of high school. Talk about a waste of money for your well-prepared student (and demoralizing, too...)

[OLG]

To be clear, I'm in favor of studying the classical disciplines, but the cost of college has become so high and the discrepancy in earnings so different between different disciplines that I don't think most people can afford to get degrees in art history or French literature. We have to take responsibility to learn these subjects on our own and be more mercenary in our four year degrees.

 

Well, I've chewed on this bone for years and have come to the conclusion that today the 'advanced' degree is what makes the career if you use your undergraduate years pursuing an academic passion. You might have to spend a little more time making up a few classes but you can still do it. Today's college is imho yesterday's high school......

 

Now, we have a nephew whose parents pushed him to go into engineering (at Vanderbilt) just for a career that would support him. He did. He graduated and then went to work at a job that any high school grad could have gotten! NOthing at all related to what he studied. TOday, he markets those propane tanks for your BBQ....No matter how much we try to design a career for our children, they are still individuals and will hopefully follow their own path in life. We can advise, encourage and support.

 

Just my thoughts!

 

Mary

[KingM]

Well, I've chewed on this bone for years and have come to the conclusion that today the 'advanced' degree is what makes the career if you use your undergraduate years pursuing an academic passion. You might have to spend a little more time making up a few classes but you can still do it. Today's college is imho yesterday's high school......

 

 

And the way things are going it won't be too long until a post-doc becomes de rigueur. I think we're in an education bubble. There's no way costs and requirements can't keep spiraling upward year after year. And the cost of textbooks? What a scam.

[Amy loves Bud]

This has been a big topic of conversation around here lately,for whatever reason I don't know, since my oldest is just 12.

 

My husband, only partially joking, has suggested my son become an underwater welder for financial security, then he can have time and money to focus on music, soccer and reading. No college involved unless he wants to go for the educational rather than the vocational aspects.

 

While I have said absolutely no to the underwater welding component, lol, I do agree that I would like our children to have a means of financial independence that will free them up to pursue their true interest via academics (or other appropriate routes). One thing we are considering is using college money to help the kids develop a real estate business rather than pay for college. If they did this, they could actually have an income from their real estate to pay for education or other pursuits.

 

I used to think that college is there for you to make of it what you like. Want to go shoot the bull in philosophy class - have fun! Want to get trained for a job? Better get enrolled. When I was a student at Texas A&M paying $12 per semester hour (1980's), there was a lot more leeway to use it as I saw fit. I personally don't see a problem with higher education serving two completely different purposes, though I know many will argue one side or the other.

 

However, now it is becoming so prohibitively expensive that those views are no longer practical. Even many of the better paying jobs do not pay enough to justify the large debt students are accumulating. And taking a class for the "education"? That is rapidly being relegated to the elite. I agree that this is a broken system, but I don't think choosing one option is the way to fix it. A new, better path to financial independence is needed.

 

I think one thing we will see is that much of the coursework required to "get a job" will start being offered by alternative methods, ie, internet based classwork. This will leave the traditional, on-campus setting for those who want to pursue an education for its own sake. I'll be watching carefully over the next decade, because I think higher education as we know it will be changed dramatically during that time.

[mommaduck]

My middle son told me the day before yesterday that he wants to be a writer. I tried to explain to him that he could work on stories and novels even as he was pursuing a more traditional career. He wasn't buying it.

 

 

Well, I have to say that this is a better response than my folks gave me. Anything and everything I was interested in was "you won't make any money...at least not until after you're dead". It was never good enough. No, I "should" become an accountant/secretary like my mother and my grandmother (I would have preferred nursing at that time over accounting...needless to say, I discovered as soon as I was out of the house that I have a knack for accounting LOL!). Goodness, they couldn't have at least encouraged me to get a teaching degree with focus on English/Literature or a journalism degree???

 

Honestly, you're response is appropriate. Don't discourage, but rather encourage something that relates to what he desires and yet still secure him a job. I have an aunt that was an artist in highschool; she now manages layouts at the newspaper of a major US city. I have a friend who was very interested in theatre; she has a degree dealing with video and film technology. Practical skills and jobs that stemmed off of an interest. I know someone else that had a love of history, fashion, and theatre; she now works as a costumer for a theatre (and I think production) company. I have a son that is into math and science. He may have his sights set high, but we are pointing out all the different ways a physics degree can be used...not just the one or two. Not every kid is technically oriented...but that doesn't mean you can't take their interests and turn them into something practical.

[Garga]

My grandfather was a contractor who owned a company and built houses in Marin county (the richest county in America.) My mother had a very wealthy upbringing. He had an 8th grade education.

 

My father and fil had decent paying white collar jobs based on their training in the military. 12th grade education (plus military.)

 

My husband has a master's degree and the pay is completely in the middle. Not a lot, not a little. He can support us and we're doing ok, but we don't have a bunch of crazy extras. He has 19 years of education.

 

It's crazy how much education you need nowadays to get a regular job that can support a family. I am hoping that my kids will let me advise them to choose to pursue a career that can actually give them a living salary--and to carefully pick college classes to further that (maybe with a few fun classes as well.)