I will probably regret posting this...

[Jenny in Florida]

:grouphug: Maybe because I am from Detroit where it seems like no one is nice to anyone ever, I think most people on here are pretty nice or at least civil. :D But my "niceness" scale is admittedly skewed. Unless someone comes out and directly calls me a name, unless it is an unmistakeable direct attack on me and not just a matter of a heated discussion on different opinions, I don't get too upset. But you need thick skin in this part of the world (to face the winters as well!).

 

Hey, I lived near and worked in NYC for several years, which most people consider one of the unfriendliest cities in the country. I, on the other hand, thought most people there were pretty nice.

 

And I do feel that I've been directly attacked here. So, that may be the difference.

[Hillary in KS]

I've only been hanging around here for a couple of years, but I've already seen this topic at least a half dozen times, maybe more. No one is going to feel happy and accepted all of the time. Carry on.

 

:D

[Jenny in Florida]

I've only been hanging around here for a couple of years, but I've already seen this topic at least a half dozen times, maybe more. No one is going to feel happy and accepted all of the time. Carry on.

 

Sure, but if the same problem keeps cropping up again and again, mightn't that just possibly mean something?

[Nestof3]

Been there. Done that. Walked away feeling more hurt and frustrated than if I had left it alone.

 

It's not that I think people are out to get me personally--at least not most of the time. It's just that nagging feeling that no one really "gets" me . . .

 

Trust me, I feel that way sometimes too. Hang around, keep posting, and we will get to know you better. I think we all want to be understood -- not necessarily agreed with, but understood.

[CAMom]

Jedi,

 

I feel like I'm living in a different universe.:)

 

You know why? I see all kinds of condemnation against Christians by folks here. I've seen one particular poster say things (literally) such as, "I have no respect for people who parent their children that way." Or, "I indict any parent who lets their child read that racist trash." These come from a clearly non-Christian (in fact, quite hostile towards Christianity) poster. Most of the time they are not deleted.

 

I have also seen plenty of posts by those speaking of their Christian principles be deleted by admin.

 

So?:confused: Personally, I've seen it all pretty well even out in the end. I definitely read more than post (I'm here every day) so maybe I see it more even because I'm not as invested in the conversations? I don't know.

 

I'm sensitive to the way Jenny's been feeling even though I'm not seeing it the same way. I'm really sorry that some of you are feeling this way. I see just as much uncharitable talk and snark coming equally from both sides.

 

:grouphug: to all of you feeling stepped on.

[newlifemom]

Before I came here I thought I was such an open, tolerant person. Sure I am a Christian that believes in one path to heaven, but I was still 'open' and 'tolerant' of others. That's what I thought. You ladies have taught me so much about myself. Stuff I am ashamed to know, iykwim.:o I am so sorry that people don't feel welcome here. I just love all of you. Jenny in Fl, Dawn, Rosie, Mommaduck, Bill, Peek you and all the rest of you here have made me so much more aware and open. I still have my beliefs political, religious, feminist etc., but I am not the same. If I were to be completely honest there are times I haven't felt welcome. I am a thread killer extrardonaire(sp?).:D Yet I keep coming back, b/c I want to hear what Audrey says or Remudamom. You guys have brought me through 2 miscarriages, a move across country and months w/no irl friends. Please know in my eyes you all are welcome. Well, except maybe G*n*t*lw*rts.:tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry such a long post. Wanted to add my .02

[mommaduck]

Before I came here I thought I was such an open, tolerant person. Sure I am a Christian that believes in one path to heaven, but I was still 'open' and 'tolerant' of others. That's what I thought. You ladies have taught me so much about myself. Stuff I am ashamed to know, iykwim.:o I am so sorry that people don't feel welcome here. I just love all of you. Jenny in Fl, Dawn, Rosie, Mommaduck, Bill, Peek you and all the rest of you here have made me so much more aware and open. I still have my beliefs political, religious, feminist etc., but I am not the same. If I were to be completely honest there are times I haven't felt welcome. I am a thread killer extrardonaire(sp?).:D Yet I keep coming back, b/c I want to hear what Audrey says or Remudamom. You guys have brought me through 2 miscarriages, a move across country and months w/no irl friends. Please know in my eyes you all are welcome. Well, except maybe G*n*t*lw*rts.:tongue_smilie:

 

Sorry such a long post. Wanted to add my .02

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Okay, I want World Peace :D

[asta]

Why do these types of questions (the OP) always appear to devolve into a series of Christian/non-Christian comments?

 

The OP didn't say squat about Christianity in regards to it being a source of discontent. She mentioned in a later post that she happened to be a Christian, but that was extraneous information.

 

People come from different backgrounds: geographic, social, religious - you name it - but, yeah, the ad hominem attacks are vicious. I'm not talking about posters using generalizations ("people" seem to be...." "why do people...") I'm referring to where the posts go from there. I do not understand how "people" turns into "hey, Joe, you suck" or, even worse, "Hey Joe, your religion (or something you perceive to be part of your religion) sucks". (there is no one here named Joe, right?).

 

How is a person supposed to ask a question that they honestly, truly want an answer to - in general terminology no less - and not be verbally attacked? What kind of example does that set for our children?

 

JMO, and I believe I've made this quite "general", but someone will take it as a personal attack, anyway.

 

 

asta

[Rosie_0801]

How is a person supposed to ask a question that they honestly, truly want an answer to - in general terminology no less - and not be verbally attacked?

 

A two paragraph disclaimer seems to help...

 

Rosie

[Ohdanigirl]

Go to your Control Panel.

 

From the box on the left-hand side of your screen, select "Edit Ignore List."

 

Enter the name of the person/people you wish to ignore.

 

Easy-peasy! :001_smile:

 

 

Thanks!

[newlifemom]

Why do these types of questions (the OP) always appear to devolve into a series of Christian/non-Christian comments?

 

The OP didn't say squat about Christianity in regards to it being a source of discontent. She mentioned in a later post that she happened to be a Christian, but that was extraneous information.

 

People come from different backgrounds: geographic, social, religious - you name it - but, yeah, the ad hominem attacks are vicious. I'm not talking about posters using generalizations ("people" seem to be...." "why do people...") I'm referring to where the posts go from there. I do not understand how "people" turns into "hey, Joe, you suck" or, even worse, "Hey Joe, your religion (or something you perceive to be part of your religion) sucks". (there is no one here named Joe, right?).

 

How is a person supposed to ask a question that they honestly, truly want an answer to - in general terminology no less - and not be verbally attacked? What kind of example does that set for our children?

 

JMO, and I believe I've made this quite "general", but someone will take it as a personal attack, anyway.

 

 

asta

 

I was using as an analogy that I have some set beliefs. I also have set politcal etc beliefs. Just an analogy, I am still new to these types of discussions and I am sorry if I said it wrong.

[asta]

A two paragraph disclaimer seems to help...

 

Rosie

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

 

asta

[asta]

I was using as an analogy that I have some set beliefs. I also have set politcal etc beliefs. Just an analogy, I am still new to these types of discussions and I am sorry if I said it wrong.

 

You didn't say anything wrong - that is my whole point. You have a valid concern. Other posters should not take it as an attack on their personal beliefs, as you were very general.

 

 

asta

[nmoira]

Go to your Control Panel.

 

From the box on the left-hand side of your screen, select "Edit Ignore List."

 

Enter the name of the person/people you wish to ignore.

 

Easy-peasy! :001_smile:

Or click on the person's name to access their profile page. There's a "User List" dropdown menu from which you can select "Ignore User."

 

"Ignore" is my favourite feature.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

So, what works for you guys? What would you like *me* to do next time we disagree? How could I better express my convictions while communicating respect when our viewpoints are mutually incompatible?

 

Eliana, you are IMO (and in print at least ;-)) the ultimate example on this board of loving mercy and walking humbly. You seek not only to be understood, but to understand. And for that I appreciate you publicly and privately, and I don't want you to change a thing.

 

And now I turn from addressing the Eliana "you" to addressing the rest of "you," with myself in the mix.

 

As for what we can do better? I don't want to be talked to even indirectly like I'm on an adversarial talk show. Or rather, that I'm being talked *about* on an adversarial talk show. I don't come here to be slammed because of my beliefs and opinions or sneered at ala Olberman or Limbaugh. I even shrivel up a little when people I care about attach an "I agree" to snarky, venom-dripping, dismissive posts directed at other groups. (And you know what? They don't even have to be my group.)

 

When we say things such as, "Well, that's a typical Jewish response," or "What do you expect from Christians, anyway?" or "The agnostic mind will of course indulge in that, because they are not accountable to anyone or anything but their own so-called "conscience" or "Anti-abortion folks like to save the fetus, but they don't do a thing for the children" or "I just can't stand liberals," we are not opening doors for dialog. We are not holding out a lifeline for the drowning and the lonely and the sad and the alienated -- we are stomping their fingers as they try to climb on the life boat.

 

We're saying, "Sorry. No understanding for you. You clearly have no well-reasoned foundation for believing as you do, and anyway, I don't want to hear about it because it might mess up my own tidy position and we could not have that. Wouldn't be prudent."

 

(That's my favorite Bush Sr-ism, and it was the perfect place to put it. Anyway. Ahem. Sorry.)

 

I'm guilty of indulging in snark on occasion. I'm guilty of being oversensitive. I'm guilty of being overinvested in this board and how we interact with one another. I realize that. And if I'm guilty of offending you, any of you, let me know publicly or privately. I will do what I can to make it right, publicly or privately.

 

Just know, please, that if you're seeking to turn me from my evil or misguided opinions, meekness and fear and reasoning as you give your answer will do more to woo me than snickering at my ignorant opinion and sneering sarcasm. Really. I'm not impressed by that. If you're seeking just to push me away, well, that's another matter. But why share, if you don't wish to be understood as well? Why hold the truth and not share it with grace and love past "us four and no more."

 

Two quotes, since Battlemaiden got me thinking about Churchill today:

 

Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others.

 

 

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

 

----

 

May we all be courageous. May we all freely give and receive kindness and grace. May we have the courage to rise and speak our truth in love, and may we have the courage to sit down and truly listen.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Guest tangleberry]

Why do these types of questions (the OP) always appear to devolve into a series of Christian/non-Christian comments?

 

The OP didn't say squat about Christianity in regards to it being a source of discontent. She mentioned in a later post that she happened to be a Christian, but that was extraneous information.

 

Human nature, people think in groups and labels. "Ideology and fanaticism seperate us, dreams and anguish bring us together."

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

It is the curse of the internet.

 

It is far easier to put something in an email or on the 'net because you can't quite imagine the other person/people as completely real. Yet they are. Just like email has removed the civility and politeness of the handwritten letter due to its impersonal nature, forums like message boards can do much the same. There is also much in being somewhat anonymous that give freedom to peoples voices. (Not that I am advocating people put themselves more personally on the net-I'm not sure that is wise or sensible-just referring to the liberty a perception of anonymity can give.)

 

I'm afraid before all of this can be fixed, civilization will have to adapt and view these electronic communications as far more personal than we do today.

 

Just my 2 cents on how this often starts.

[Rosie_0801]

1) When posters make a conscious effort to acknowledge the diversity here, and do not assume that we share any single viewpoint other than an interest in educating our children.

 

 

Readers need to do the same.

 

I wasn't joking about the two paragraph disclaimer. Dawn did just that on her current discipline thread and it seems to have worked so far.

 

Rosie

[Danestress]

I think some of us are more prone to feel put out and not accepted than others, and upon reflection, we sometimes have to admit that there is something in US that is part of the problem. We carry our issues with us where ever we go.

 

If you find your relationships in the rest of your life are easy - that you tend to make friends and have close relationships in which you can easily disagree on politics and religion and still have that close, sisterly feeling, then perhaps it is that this board attracts a certain kind of person with whom it's hard for you to bond.

 

But if you (or I, or anyone, not you personally Jenny) find that it's hard for you to make close friends or discuss difficult issues with family and friends, then perhaps we just expect too much of the board. Discussions about religion, raising children, and politics are often touchy and there is no reason a board like this would be different. I purposely avoid those types of discussions with my friends and my family. But I often find myself weighing in here on the board, and I shouldn't be surprised when those discussions cause hurt feelings here, as they would anywhere.

 

And relationships are hard in real life, but we work hard on them because they are important. I think it's unrealistic to expect to have relationships online when we guard our topics and speech less here than we would in real life.

[Karenciavo]

I think some of us are more prone to feel put out and not accepted than others, and upon reflection, we sometimes have to admit that there is something in US that is part of the problem. We carry our issues with us where ever we go.

 

:iagree:

Sometimes people post something generally speaking and whether it's about scantily clad little girls, unschoolers, the holocaust, young kids going to college or creationists they take it personally. Most of us don't have a real relationship with each other, therefore grace is often hard. Some of us have a chip on our shoulders about various issues, therefore we're easily offended at times. Some of us aren't gifted with internet tone and the ability to use smilies effectively. :hat: :001_huh: :D The tone of this board is like an ocean, sometimes it's as smooth as glass, sometimes it's choppy. If you tend to get sea sick you may not want to go sailing on a choppy day.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Sure, but if the same problem keeps cropping up again and again, mightn't that just possibly mean something?

 

Yeah. It means that this is a message board.

 

SWB