Would you make a child do latin if he detested it?

[Jeana]

It has taken us 2 yrs to complete Latina Christian 1 and he hates latin. He feels like it is of no use to him. However, he wants to be a scientist. I keep telling him that he will be glad he did it in the future. He still can't stand it! Would you keep doing it?

[Hillary in KS]

How old is your son?

 

For us, Latin is simply part of school. I tell him that not every subject has to be fun in order to be worthwhile.

 

In our school Latin is studied. Daily. Like it or not, it is what we do.

 

He has other subjects that he likes more, and others that he likes less. But everything balances out.

[In The Great White North]

Does he hate Latin or just Latina Christiana?

 

We made dd continue, but changed curriculum.

 

Does he like computers? Try

 

http://www.cambridgescp.com/page.php?p=clc^oa_book1^intro

 

Or Lingua Latina. Or Galore Park. Or Lively Latin.

 

Frankly, there are lots of choices and I think Latina Christiana is about the most boring unless the teacher livens it up quite a bit.

[Jeana]

Hillary,

 

Point taken. I agree and that is what I have done and that is my philosophy not everything has to be fun. Maybe it is the curriculum. However, I like that it has an instructor and I have already bought the second one. So, I might just continue in my and others idea of not all school has to be fun. I might also just peak at the other choices. Thanks guys. Jeana

[TXMomof4]

In 7th grade life science I had to memorize all of the latin roots for our science vocab. It was the most useful thing I learned all year. Maybe if you could show him how it will be applicable later?

 

Of course, I haven't started Latin yet, so take my $.02 for what its worth.

[SonshineLearner]

Hi There,

The answer is "yes", and I do have my children do it. Of course, for me it's like Math or History, it's just a "necessary" part of school. It's a "Logic" course...and one of the best things that I have for my (step) daughter that is still in school. They've just moved far enough in Unit 3 of Henle, that it's really going to start being more fun. Of course, being able to do it in a group is part of the reason it's worked. BUT, either way, they'd still have to do it. Are you doing it with him? My mom does it with my girls, and this year I've tried to be really consistent with them studying well. I plan to start taking LCI any day.(I have the dvds just waiting.) I think that if I can master those, I'll jump into Henle, as I've heard that you can do it.

Especially with him wanting to go into Science, it's great to have Latin as a base. Can you take him to talk with a few scientists? Maybe at a University? If you can get him to a Classical College to talk with some Profs, that would be very good!

Carrie

[Jeana]

Great idea Carrie! I will try and do that while I am in the states. Thanks, Jeana

[Mary in WA]

My children are grown now, but yes, I chose the subjects they needed to learn. They all were accepted and even given scholarships to great colleges (two, Naval Academy), and I believe it was because I knew what they needed to study. The good news is that later on, they will ask you for their Latin books as a review, and they will tell you they are glad you made them do it! "Do not grow weary in doing good!"

[frogpond1]

You may be going at too slow of a pace. LCI in two years seems really drawn out. For us Latin is like math- non-negotiable, but I do try to choose curriculums that fit my children. I think it makes a difference that I am learning it too with my children. If I didn't have such a strong desire to read it myself I think we would have stopped years ago. If you feel strongly that it is the way you want to go- don't stop! But, do make sure your curriculum and pace are age appropriate. These kids learn more quickly than adults.

[Jeana]

Oh, I should clarify. Because of his aborhance of the subject I have stopped started it. This year I have gone full on with the no option approach. No if's, an's, but's about it! So, that is why the 2 yrs. Also, I must say he is struggling abit understanding the meaning of some it. Memorizing chants, words, and word meanings are a cinch! However, the reason for the different declensions, tenses, etc. has taken a bit to get used to. Thank you Christine.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I would try a different approach to teaching it, but yes, we'd keep on. After three years I'd start a third language, but keep it light. After five years, if he still hated it, I'd switch our focus to the third language and do Latin gently.

[Laura Corin]

Laura

Edited April 7, 2009 by Laura Corin
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[Laura Corin]

Laura

Edited April 7, 2009 by Laura Corin
Duplicate

[Laura Corin]

Calvin went in waves: he enjoyed Latin at the beginning, then started to dislike it (when it got hard) now he likes it again, as he can see the fruits of his labours. I agree with the other suggestions: make sure that you are moving forward fast enough for him to see progress and look into other programmes that might be more interesting.

 

Latin is Calvin's third language (in order of importance and time spent): we have done it slowly, but making sure that we make enough progress for him to have a sense of achievement. We also do two modern foreign languages.

 

Best wishes

[PeterPan]

How old is he? Is he too young and just not developmentally ready? LC is so terribly bare-bones, you really have to flesh it out. Maybe you're not bringing the grammar to life very well? I'm not trying to be hard, just honest. Sometimes you really have to work at it to make grammar pop. ;)

 

Have you seen the new First Form latin from Memoria Press? It's for LC flunkies like you and me. We did LC1 with a co-op and half of LC2. LC doesn't contain nearly all the practice, pizzaz, or anything else you need to make latin come alive. Either you, the teacher, bring it, or it doesn't happen. But FF apparently has EVERYTHING right there. Check it out. It really might be a curriculum problem.

 

Also, my dd is going through the "why do I have to do this?" thing too. It's a stage, the start of their why/dialectic thinking, so it doesn't bug me. Just means you have to have a good REASON, haha. It can even be just because, but you have to have a reason you can justify to yourself. It was okay to start and stop. We stopped for a season, because I was prego and didn't have a good reason to push forward then. But now, with FF coming out, I think we're going to get back on the bandwagon. It should resolve our teacher issues I think. And as for his reason to do it, well that's simple: scientists need to learn to think logically. But I go back to the question of what grammar he has done. (Did I ask that?) The latin is applying what he should be covering in english grammar, and if he has holes in his understanding there, it's no wonder it's appearing in the latin time. Latin should be FUN, logical, and formulaic if he has nailed basic english grammar. If he hasn't, even going through the introductory lessons and memorizing the defs from FLL1/2 would be enough foundation to sail through LC1.

[yslek]

This has been a helpful thread to me, as B really dislikes Latin. I've thought about dropping it, but just couldn't quite do it.

 

We did switch methods, though. He did fine with the first couple levels of Latin's Not So Tough, but got totally stuck on Level 3 last year, so we finally ditched Latin for the rest of the school year, with the understanding that we'd be starting up again with Latin this year. :) (I also had him learn the Greek alphabet w/ Hey Andrew! just so he was doing something relating to a classical language.)

 

This year I started our Latin studies with B and T using Latin For Children Primer A. T has been thriving, but B got totally lost around chapter 6 or 7. Around this time I heard about Getting Started With Latin. I found it inexpensively used, so ordered it to evaluate it. It looked like the perfect program for B. He likes having an audio component (the author has free mp3 files that go with each lesson) and needs clear explanations. GSWL progresses one little step at a time, and allows plenty of practice for each new concept learned. I think B was just so overwhelmed with all of the information presented at a time in LFC, that he gave up.

 

He still doesn't love Latin, but at least he's able to do it now. The GSWL lessons don't take a lot of time, which is another plus for this boy. That said, my goal for him is to complete GSWL and Linney's first year Latin lessons (author's continuing lessons, available online), after which I'll give him the option of switching to Greek. T will most likely continue Latin while adding in Elementary Greek, but I think it may be pushing too hard to get B to do both at one time.

[Mommy22alyns]

As others have suggested, maybe it's the curriculum and not the subject? If he wants to be a scientist, Latin is pretty foundational.

[Jeana]

Thank you ladies! OhElizabeth, thank you too. No feelings hurt here. I have to admit that I have had NOTHING to do with the latin.:001_wub: This is terrible to admit, I know. Also, he isn't having trouble with nouns, verbs, and basic grammar. However, I think that he is understanding a bit better. It is mainly the declinson and conjegation part. After your gently reprimand I will go and try and do it myself so that I might be able to explain it more. After all of your post I have told him again about reasons why and he seems to understand a bit more. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Jeana]

Thank you ladies! OhElizabeth, thank you too. No feelings hurt here. I have to admit that I have had NOTHING to do with the latin.:001_wub: This is terrible to admit, I know. Also, he isn't having trouble with nouns, verbs, and basic grammar. It is mainly the declinson and conjegation part. However, I think that he is understanding a bit better.After your gently reprimand I will go and try and do it myself so that I might be able to explain it more. After all of your post I have told him again about reasons why and he seems to understand a bit more. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

I inserted the However sentence in the wrong place in the reply above, lol.

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Well I think you may have found your problem. Latin isn't really the sort of thing a dc does independently, at least not with LC. LC does not have a lot of explanation and assumes a teacher is there explaining things and providing a lot more practice, promoting a lot more thought and deeper understanding. If you aren't working with him, that's the problem. You might need some latin bootcamp yourself if you really want to make this happen. ;)

 

A curriculum change could solve this problem. As I said, First Form sounds like it's going to be a lot more complete. It will even have dvd's. For an older student, you could do Henle. There are even online courses you can do through VP where he would have a live teacher, an accountability partner, someone to answer his questions. But throwing LC at him won't quite cut it, not if you want him to actually understand the grammar and be able to move forward. It's no wonder he was confused, poor thing! I get confused, and I have the tm in front of me! :)

[Jeana]

:crying: OhElizabeth, I feel so terrible. I did the dvd's and looked in the TM when he needed help so I didn't just throw it at him and say here do it. However, I didn't REALLY look at it to gain an understanding so I could adequatelly teach it. I will apologize to him and do better with First Form and the dvd's or I might even look at VP's online course. Thanks so much for your constructive criticism. I needed that.

[Jeana]

Just thought I would give a little update. I just decided to sit down and go over EVERYTHING with him just to see how much he "didn't understand". He was able to not only give me the latin and english translations but the the conjegations and declensions as well. I think he is just more looking for some attention in this area and assurance. He was able to explain everything to me and why you do this or that. So, I feel he has an understanding he just needs more of "me". I will make more of an effort here. Thanks again to everyone for your loving suggestions.

[PeterPan]

Oh Jeana, don't feel terrible! We all mess things up and look back to go oops. Sounds like it's all going to work out fine! Hope it goes better for you in the future. :)

[Di3kids]

now I feel really terrible. After reading all of your posts, you ALL continued with Latin, but I stopped last year when my oldest was in 7th grade and we began Rosetta Stone Spanish. Not being a complainer by nature, I listened to him when he kept making remarks about not liking Latin. What was I thinking? Latin seemed like just one more subject in our crazy day, so perhaps it was easy to say "no more Latin." But, I really wanted us to learn it in our homeschool.

 

Curriculum suggestions to get us back on the bandwagon? BTW, my son DOES want to be a scientist.

 

He'll be in 9th. DDs will be in 4th and 7th. Per WTM suggestion, we had been doing Martha Wilson's Latin Primer for several years.

 

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

Di, you should ask on the high school board what they recommend for your 9th grader. I personally wouldn't force a high schooler to do a subject they truly didn't want to do like that. Life is short and there are plenty of things to pursue in high school. He's done several years and doesn't like it. I'd move on to something he DOES like. But that's just my opinion. I think high school is the start of the student pursuing things that interest them, not just having things shoved down their throats that we want them to. There are many good paths to pursue, and they don't have to include latin. What language does he WANT to do? He has to do one, but any language, done well and with heart, will do. If he's had several years of latin, he's had enough to know if he wants to continue or not.

[Di3kids]

I feel much better about my son. Your words about high school are so wise. I may resurrect the Latin with my younger two, however. Thanks bunches!

 

Diane

[abbeyej]

Jeana, I think you're absolutely on the right track. He does need "more" of you. Latin is *hard*, and it can be terribly lonely to have to struggle through all on your own.

 

I would also absolutely consider switching curricula. At least for the next school year. When a student has grown to hate a subject, sometimes the fresh start of new books and a new approach can go a long way. LC is a good intro, but it's not colorful or humorous, it doesn't have interesting translation passages. I think one can make it an enjoyable class, but all on it's own? It's just very dry. And a hard subject, done alone, with no color and no humor? I think there are few young students who would come to enjoy that.

 

There are so many good options, depending on his age. I would urge you to continue to work on this *with* him, or find him a class with an engaging teacher and enthusiastic other students. And find him a textbook that can draw him in and show him some of the puzzle of Latin grammar, the excitement of Roman history and myth, and maybe even a little of the absurdity one encounters when tackling a subject like this...

[Alphabetika]

A few thoughts:

 

Switch programs.

 

Wait until he's older (like high school age) and have him take Latin online. This has made all the difference for us! After slogging through a few years of LCI and LCII, my dd knew she liked Latin but she didn't like this program, and I felt inadequate to meet her needs. She now takes Latin online and LOVES it! And she is going towards an arts career. I would think for your son it would be very important to prepare him for his career.

 

Just a thought!

[Di3kids]

what online Latin does your daughter LOVE?

[Jeana]

Thanks again guys. I am planning on spending the summer getting on top of a lot of things with the kids school. I am hoping to do some crash courses in latin, science, and math. The rest I understand but with my oldest starting 7th grade I have lots to catch up on to be a *good* teacher. In Him, Jeana

[Broccoli]

I am probably one of the few people who would not press Latin. I studied Latin in school for 5 years and went on to study engineering. It was of minimal help only. My husband, my sister and many people we know and associate with went on to get their PhDs, some teaching at universities and none of them studied Latin and never wished they had. All of them in scientific fields incl. Biology.

 

It really only takes a fraction of the time to study word roots which is really the most helpful in my opinion.

 

Just thought I'd throw that in here to give a different opinion ;). I wish I had studied French like my sister.

[Jeana]

That is very interesting Broccoli. Sorry, but I can't help but laugh as I address you as Broccoli! I have a friend that is a scientist so I think I will ask him his opinion. Thank you for that insight. Jeana

[frogpond1]

and there is a learning curve to it too. I think those things start to fall into place over time and usage here. It is really exciting when they start reading longer stories. If you can keep that in mind as you trudge ahead it helps.

[Alphabetika]

Di3kids,

 

My dd takes Latin through Lukeion.org. She just finished her 1st year, is signed up for next year, and plans to take a third year, too, which is what they offer at the moment. They specialize in Ancient history and languages, so they offer many ancient history, literature, language courses as well as shorter workshops, which my dd has also enjoyed. I'd be happy to answer any more questions - I think so highly of Lukeion! (which is really a couple, Regan and Amy Barr). Check out their website!

[Storm Bay]

If Latin were the only subject my child hated, yes, I'd continue it, although I might switch programs. You've already bought the next one, but another program that has it on DVD is Latin Primer. It's not so popular here (I think it was in the first edition of WTM), but it worksl for us, and the grammar portion seems to be helping a lot, but there's no DVD for that, just the primers. If it was a child who hated all school subjects and who was extremely strong-willed, then I'd have to choose my battles. My eldest plans to major in science, so has decided to do some Latin through high school. She might never read the Illiad in Latin, but perhaps she will.

 

I wouldn't worry about the speed as much as continuing on. I have a dd with whom I chose my battles, because there were so many. She didn't detest Latin, but by the time other things were done, there wasn't much time for Latin. It took her 4 years to get through the first level. However, she is bound and determined to take the National Latin Exam next year in high school and I'm sure she'll buckle down and get it done once the pressure is on next fall. (she'll homeschool high school, but we're hoping to have her take Latin at the ps).