Moving overseas (Stuttgart, Germany) questions & wwyd

[Laurie in VA]

I am a wreck right now (when am I not - seems to be the only time I post :001_huh: ). DH works for the gov't - DOD - and we will find out within the next week or so if we will be moving to Stuttgart, Germany. We would fall under the SOFA and will be able to homeschool with no problem, thank goodness.

 

I have so many concerns, one being living in a country with a different language. I realize that many Germans speak English, but it would obviously be in our best interest to learn the language. Is German hard to learn as an adult? Are the people friendly towards Americans?

 

Will it be difficult to obtain homeschool materials in a country that doesn't allow homeschooling? I guess I should make sure the companies we use will send to military addresses overseas?

 

And also, we have a fairly large house that we *just* refinanced last year. We live in a tiny mill town where comparable houses have been on the market for well over a year. The mill just announced that it will shut down next month for 2-3 weeks. Not sure much of anything will sell now.

 

DH and I differ on what to do with the house. I think we should go ahead and sell most everything we can in the house, keeping only sentimental things to either move to Germany or keep in long-term storage. Take all of that money and pay off debt. Empty the house and put it on the market - thankfully we don't have to sell immediately and can wait for the market to come back. We're not 100% sure until we try it, but the "plan" is to live in Germany for 4-6 years, then move to another country - probably Japan. We're not sure that we'll come back to the US for some time, as the idea of raising the girls in several countries is appealing to us.

 

DH -who never wants to sell anything :tongue_smilie: - wants to keep the house, and maybe rent it to a military family or let our church have it for the intern pastors that we get for 2-3 years at a time. That way, says he, we can leave things like the lawn mower, appliances, etc. here at the house and not have to buy them again upon our return.

 

With the plan to not return for at least 4-6 years - maybe longer - does this actually make sense? If it does, please tell me so I won't start a war with DH over this, LOL!

 

Whew! Lots to think about. I know I rarely post, but I so appreciate all of the good advice when I do. Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions!

[Sasharowan]

To me, it makes no sense. In 4-6 years or more, the wear and tear on the appliances alone will mean you'll have to replace them when you get back anyway. Also you may decide to live elsewhere by then and not want to move back into the house. Although you don't really need to sell the large appliances separately, you can include them in the house when you sell that.

[mazakaal]

I think it really just depends on whether or not you like the house and the area. If you do, and you would want to return there, then I'd recommend keeping the house, not for the sake of the appliances, but just because you have no idea what the economy will do and whether you'll be able to buy another house on your return.

 

When we moved here, we sold our home, and though I know it was the right choice because we have no immediate plans of returning to the same area, it does bother me a bit that whenever we do choose to return, we will have an extremely difficult time ever buying a house.

 

If you plan on living overseas for 20 years, or if you'd really rather not return to the same place, then by all means put the house on the market. Otherwise, I'd hold onto it.

[KJB]

I have so many concerns, one being living in a country with a different language. I realize that many Germans speak English, but it would obviously be in our best interest to learn the language. Is German hard to learn as an adult? Are the people friendly towards Americans?

 

People speak English. Really. In US military base/post areas the local businesses make a lot of money by dealing with Americans. They have good incentive to speak English and most speak English incredibly well. The business incentive tends to make them pretty friendly, as well. :D Our family is learning German. It's not easy but it's doable. Immersion, of course, helps. Our lessons are reinforced all the time by visits to local businesses and visits with friends. In fact, it's frustrating sometimes because they'd rather just speak English and get the conversation moving as we fumble around with poor German. If we get another assignment here, I will be putting my younger children in German schools.

 

Will it be difficult to obtain homeschool materials in a country that doesn't allow homeschooling? I guess I should make sure the companies we use will send to military addresses overseas?

 

Yes! There's little for sale here in the way of materials. You can find art supplies and that sort of thing but that's about it. You can ship whatever you need. If you have an APO address, shipping won't cost an arm and a leg but it will be slow so plan ahead.

 

DH -who never wants to sell anything - wants to keep the house....With the plan to not return for at least 4-6 years - maybe longer - does this actually make sense? If it does, please tell me so I won't start a war with DH over this, LOL!

 

My DH and your DH agree on this issue. I chose not to start the war. We'll be getting rid of outdated stuff when we return. I'll let my DH know that when he needs to know.:lol::lol: We have a couple of rental houses we've previously lived in. That has gone very well, actually.

 

We're going to try to stay overseas as long as possible. It's been a tremendous experience.

 

I wanted to add: Germans take English in school. Most younger Germans speak at least some English.

Edited March 3, 2009 by KJB

[Tracey in TX]

I think many Germans speak better English than our own American students. Our second exchange student was from Gerlingen, a suburb of Stuttgart. His family came to visit and only one of the nine didn't speak perfect English.

I would move there in a New York minute. Outta here, baby! Can we tag along, just for grins? ;)

Like you, I'd prefer to get rid of the household items. A GF and her DH left the US indefinitely, traveling and settling twice over a decade. They kept their stuff in storage. It's hysterical that items which look circa 1985 are in pristine condition and work beautifully. She said it saved them tens of thousands of dollars to do it this way. They didn't have the replacement cost, which was almost double what was initially paid due to inflation.

 

If you do relo, I'll try to connect you with Johnny's family if interested. It's always good to know someone when you begin a new journey.

[lionfamily1999]

My dh will never sell the house we live in. Even if we were to move, we'll keep the house. He loves this house and he sees it as security. We own it, it's paid for. He sees this as a possible last refuge if things go wrong somewhere else. It's his root, his haven, etc.

 

If it were us, we'd go with letting the church use it while we're gone. Assuming you trust the leadership to use care, you should find your home in reasonably good condition when/if you return. Besides, with the market the way it is right now, there's not much point in putting it for sale. This way, you don't have to worry about the house sitting empty, acting as a magnet for people looking to remove copper or vandals looking for something to do.

[In The Great White North]

Have you checked what storage DOD will pay for? I don't know how much will apply to a DOD civilian (as opposed to military) but when we were assigned overseas, they paid for stateside storage so you could rent your house unfurnished. They would not ship your entire household goods to Germany. They had a stash of furniture and appliances you could sign out for the duration of your tour.

 

Regardless, you will not get anywhere near replacement value if you sell your appliances, lawnmowers, furniture etc before you leave and you will definitely have to buy them when you return. Most of this stuff has a longer expected life than four years. Unless your renters really trash everything, you would be better off keeping it. You may have to replace, but then again, you might not. I think it's worth the gamble. Store anything personal or that you really like.

 

If the market is that bad right now, you may be better off renting it out even if you don't want to return.

 

As for homeschooling materials, they do have the usual run of bookstore after-schooling type stuff, all in German of course, but that's it. It's fine for math and German (look for Deutsche als Fremdsprache stuff). You'll want to bring anything else with you.

[Laurie in VA]

TY for the great answers! I'll keep reading, and once we know for sure that he has the job (and we are 99% sure he does) we'll know more about what can be shipped / will be stored.

[KidsHappen]

 

I didn't know Bitburg was still open. I thought I had heard it closed quiet awhile ago. I lived there from 87-90 and loved it. You are so lucky!

[KidsHappen]

Congratulations! I lived overseas for 6 years and absolutely loved it, although we lived in Japan for three years and then Germany.

 

Germans are very friendly towards Americans, at least there were when I lived there. All Germans learn English in school and most speak at least some, even in the middle of nowhere. I had to ask for directions once and between their English and my German, we were able to figure it out. English is a Germanic language with a similar structure and some of the words are very close to the same. I found it the first two years of college German pretty easy to learn, although I found myself frequently saying Langsam Bitte (slowly, please).

 

If you have an APO address, it will not be any harder to get school materials than it is here, although as someone else mentioned, it will take a lot longer. An APO address is an American address, usually NYC for Germany, and then the military/DOD ships it from there to you in Germany. So if a company mails to NYC, you should be able to get your stuff. I have seen companies say that they don't mail to APO addresses but I have no idea why not. If all else fails, you can order and send to someone in America and then have them mail on to you in Germany. Also stock up before you go.

 

The house does present some issues. First of all, if you intend to keep the house, you need to hire a management company to manage it ot someone you absolutely trust. It is very hard to take care of a house from overseas. Even if it is rented or otherwise occupied, you want to make sure that it is being maintained and taken care of. What if there is some sort of problem, bathtub overflows and ruins floor, plumbing has issue, heater quits working, etc. Who is going to take care of these problems?

 

On the otherhand, I believe that there will be a greater market for rentals coming up because less people will be buying houses. If you keep in then you will still have your investment and a place to stay when you get home.

 

There are a lot of issues with your dh's plan. First of all, the DOD has a weight limit on what they will allow you to move with you and it is not very high. I don't know exactly how it works in the DOD but in the military it depended on your rank. They provided furniture and appliances with your housing so that they did not have to move your furniture. Now the furniture they provided was from 1960 and not the best looking but it was functional and the same as everyone else had. No keeping up with the Jones'.

 

When you look at storing the items you can't take with you. The cost of storing them for that long is greater than the cost of replacing them when you get back. As someone else said, the wear and tear of using them would mean that they need to be replaced when you get home anyhow. Germany uses a different electric current than we do so our elctronic don't work over there. Most people I knew only took kitchen supplies, linens, books, clothing, etc. and they usually used up their weight allowence with just those items.

 

That's all I can think of right now. If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to ask. You are so lucky. I would love another opportunity to live overseas and my children would give everything they own to do it.

[KJB]

The two bases will become one by 2012-2015?? I think. They still have minimal housing, part of the med clinic, the high school (along with an elementary and middle school), the bigger commissary, and the BX plaza here.

 

The flight line is already closed. All the planes are at Spang.

 

My DH works between both bases but we live on Bitburg.

 

And yes, we are very very lucky! We love it here. Were you stationed here?

Edited March 3, 2009 by KJB

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think you will find living in Germany fairly easy. Especially if you have access to the bases as well. It is pretty easy to find food and such without speaking the language but I am a believer in learning a few words and numbers in the language I need to use. You can always print a cheat sheet for food names to use in the store.

 

APO addresses use only the postal service so you have to make sure that shippers know not to use UPS etc. Time is slower but you can get almost anything through the mail.

 

As for the house-I was once advised not to rent a home with a clothes washer and dryer. Something about being liable for any damage to the renter's property if the washer were to flood, have a hose break etc. I was told that can be very common.

 

I wouldn't store items that won't last in that environment. Do you really want an old mattress back after that long? Keep any good pieces you like and would like back and sell what you don't need. You can use your US lamps in Europe, just buy plug adapters on the base and put in 220 bulbs. US appliances that require timers such as toasters and microwaves don't work as well on a transformer in my experience.

 

I think you will have a great time!

[KidsHappen]

The two bases will become one by 2012-2015?? I think. They still have minimal housing, part of the med clinic, the high school (along with an elementary and middle school), the bigger commissary, and the BX plaza here.

 

The flight line is already closed. All the planes are at Spang.

 

My DH works between both bases but we live on Bitburg.

 

And yes, we are very very lucky! We love it here. Were you stationed here?

 

Yes, we were stationed at Bitburg and our bfs were stationed at Spang. When we first moved there we lived in a German house half way between the two bases. I was there when the Army and new commisary came. The new BX was not built yet. We then moved to one of the refurbished apartments with the new bathroom add ons and the new kitchens. My ds went to K there. I worked as the cash manager at the O and NCO clubs. We traveled a lot. I miss it.

[asta]

Store absolutely everything that you don't immediately need.

 

There is a severe housing shortage in Stuttgart, due to the influx of Africom. If you are lucky enough to be given on-post housing, a family of 3 is eligible for stairwell apartment housing, which ranges from just shy of 1000 sq ft (including halls, bathrooms and laundry) to just shy of 1500 sq ft. (unless sponsor has a command position, at which point they are eligible for, but will not necessarily receive, an actual "house").

 

Houses/Apts off post are similar in size, and you can expect to pay 1st rent, last rent, plus deposit equalling up to $8000 just to get into the place. COLA has gone through the floor, so you cannot depend on it for "extras" (some people rented "more than housing allowance" assuming they could make it up with their COLA $$. Only now that money is gone.

 

Heating oil is horrifically expensive, and most houses, apts use it.

 

If you have a dog, you have to insure it with a special policy available only in Germany, as dog owners are responsible not just for bites, but for any accident (if Fido runs into traffic or trips an old lady, the owner pays damages). Areas to take dogs are also severely limited. Animals get viruses all of the time due to too many dogs in too confined a space.

 

Mail is easy. There is even a company called APObox.com (or something) that will accept your UPS/Fed Ex packages in NJ, charge you a fee, and forward them to the APO.

 

Healthcare in Stuttgart is at a premium. The community has grown too fast for available resources. There are no longer "same day" appointments for doctors. One must really consider "is it an emergency?" as sudden problems have to go to the nurse advice line (which actually transfers the call to the US - go figure) to gauge severity. Being "sent to ER" is a common thing. And it is a German ER. Almost every specialty appointment (psychiatry, neurology, cardiology, optometry, etc.) is with a German doctor off post (not bad - they're quite good, just be prepared).

 

Childcare for non-working people is extremely difficult. Stuttgart is a very rank-heavy environment, which means there are fewer spouses willing to work at CDC and other non-white collar jobs. Consequently, it is very difficult to get a slot.

 

Finally, though people under the SOFA agreement are technically allowed to hs their children, if said people are not living in military housing, they risk being confronted by German authorities. This has happened within the past year.

 

 

asta

(who has a lot of experience w/ Germany)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think that you'll have a great time in Germany. Never made it to Stuttgart, but Berlin rocked. On the base, you will have all sorts of services available in English (unlike me, who had to learn to tell a hairdresser what I wanted in German). There will be a base library. There will be all sorts of youth sports through MWR or the base services. There will be school libraries, which you are entitled to use. There will be a commissary (no attempting to explain bread crumbs in German). Whether you live on base or off, you won't be without a net.

 

Plus Germany is really cool. There are all sorts of historical threads that criss cross the country, from Romans to middle ages to reformation to the modern era. There was one six week period when we visited a different castle or cathedral every weekend.

 

I wouldn't worry about not being able to find lots of homeschooling materials in town in Germany - becauase they'd be in German if they were available. Amazon will cheerfully ship to an APO address, as will most if not all of the homeschool companies. I didn't find there to much of a time lag (certainly better than Hawaii was, both in timeliness and cost) except when I ordered a really big order from Amazon and it was kept waiting for one or two missing items.

 

Friendliness, it depends. I don't think that the average person in a shop was rude. Berlin was a big city and many people were very busy. We did make some very good friends. A couple of them came to visit us in the US. Most people were cordial, even if we stayed on a last name basis.

 

Most Americans around the bases don't speak German, so the expectation is that you can't. You might not pick up enough to do a speech, but you can certainly learn enough to get around a restaurant or a grocery store. Your kids can certainly learn German. We had only German on the television, used Rosetta Stone, bought lots of books in German (stacks of Donald Duck comics from flea markets) and attended a German church.

 

I don't know what to say about the house. We rented ours out and were actually able to pay it off. But we knew other people who were stretched thin by having had no renters for several months. A lot depends on how much it would hurt to not have it rented (although you'd have a similar liability if it goes unsold for a long time). And a lot depends on the rental market in your area. Our house is in a place with a large rental market. Other areas might not have much demand.

[Christine]

We're not 100% sure until we try it, but the "plan" is to live in Germany for 4-6 years, then move to another country - probably Japan. We're not sure that we'll come back to the US for some time, as the idea of raising the girls in several countries is appealing to us.

 

DH -who never wants to sell anything :tongue_smilie: - wants to keep the house, and maybe rent it to a military family or let our church have it for the intern pastors that we get for 2-3 years at a time. That way, says he, we can leave things like the lawn mower, appliances, etc. here at the house and not have to buy them again upon our return.

 

If the "plan" is to be out of country so long, I would get rid of stuff, including the house. We rented out our house for 7 years, but it started to become troublesome (even with the management company that was fabulous), as things started breaking down, etc.

 

Also, generally, if you rent out, you have to essentially be bare of "stuff". (Not the kitchen "heavy" appliances, but other stuff.) The big problem is, if you leave it there, then generally you have to replace it. Worse, if a renter moves out, after being there awhile, they may "forget" what was theirs and what was yours -- even if it's written on the rental contract.

 

I am a wreck right now (when am I not - seems to be the only time I post :001_huh: ). DH works for the gov't - DOD - and we will find out within the next week or so if we will be moving to Stuttgart, Germany.

 

BTDT!

 

It was our last duty station.

 

The kids and I did NOT like it. In fact, we were supposed to be there a min. of 5 years with the option to extend, and we left after 3.

 

That just gave you the warm fuzzies, didn't it?

 

There were a great number of circumstances that caused us to not like Stuttgart -- not all of them necessarily related to the place.

 

I don't recall the ages of your kids, but I did want to say this, as it is very specific to homeschooling (the big "S" word). My two older children, in their tweens / early teens, found it very difficult to meet / make friends there. Off post we lived on a street that had a number of teens, but due to school schedules, extra activities, and a more. . . "relaxed" parenting style, we never saw them. On post, there just weren't many, and those are / were divided amongst 4 posts -- I believe RB housing is closed for reno right now, so it would only be 3 posts. ("Top heavy post" of young officers = generally younger kids.)

[Laura Corin]

 

Also, generally, if you rent out, you have to essentially be bare of "stuff". (Not the kitchen "heavy" appliances, but other stuff.) The big problem is, if you leave it there, then generally you have to replace it.

 

We only left the appliances and built-ins. We've had to replace the washer once, but otherwise the management company hasn't had much to do. We are glad that we held onto the house - in that area, even in the current climate, house prices have maintained fairly well. It really depends how you feel the housing market will go in your town....

 

Laura

[Laurie in VA]

TY all so much for the great info!

 

DH is a former Marine (13+ yrs), and has worked for the DOD for 8 yrs. now, so we are used to the way the military works, thankfully. We would have access to everything on the base, which is comforting. The job is a pay-rate which we hope rates us for a house instead of apartment on base. Not sure on that one. We'd rather live on the economy, but are unsure yet if we would get some sort of assistance with the whole 5-month's-rent-up-front thing. We sure can't come up with that!

 

As for the house, we are still talking about renting it out vs selling. We're also contemplating DH going over 1st (it will likely be the 1st of May) and the girls and I going a month or two later. I can't imagine movers coming in just 4 wks or so!

 

Of course this all is counting chickens as he hasn't actually been selected :-) but we are fairly confident that he will be. And if the move is to happen as quickly as he suspects, it's probably wise to start thinking about it all now. At the worst my house will be much less cluttered!

 

Thanks again for the helpful posts!

[asta]

The houses are only for O-6 and above (full Colonel +), Ambassadors, and SES level with certain, key jobs. GS employees/Contractors don't even rate. Sorry.

 

The stairwells are only for active military duty.

 

There are a lot of teens there now, though. And a very active Christian homeschooling group.

 

 

asta

[Laurie in VA]

The houses are only for O-6 and above (full Colonel +), Ambassadors, and SES level with certain, key jobs. GS employees/Contractors don't even rate...

 

There (is) a very active Christian homeschooling group.

 

Well, I guess that settles that. We'll have to live in town. Hope it works out so that we can do it! I am glad to hear about the hs group. We are in a wonderful Christian co-op now and just love it!

[missplacedalaskan]

KJB...You live at Bitburg?! I am so jealous. We lived at Prum from 84-89 and I went to high school at Bitburg. I met and dated my Dh there. So many wonderful memories! We have been trying for 20 years to get back to Germany but the Lord hasn't opened that door for us.

[KJB]

We're just hoping we get to stay for our entire assignment. DH recently got word we may get moved. :confused:

 

We came here from Alaska, by the way. We fell in love with that place, too!

 

They will end up closing Bitburg High school eventually because of the base merger. Bitburg will go back to the Germans. Apparently, they will tear down the entire facility, including the housing. It is kind of sad and it seems so wasteful.

[Liz CA]

I have so many concerns, one being living in a country with a different language. I realize that many Germans speak English, but it would obviously be in our best interest to learn the language. Is German hard to learn as an adult? Are the people friendly towards Americans?

 

DH and I differ on what to do with the house. I think we should go ahead and sell most everything we can in the house, keeping only sentimental things to either move to Germany or keep in long-term storage. Take all of that money and pay off debt. Empty the house and put it on the market - thankfully we don't have to sell immediately and can wait for the market to come back. We're not 100% sure until we try it, but the "plan" is to live in Germany for 4-6 years, then move to another country - probably Japan. We're not sure that we'll come back to the US for some time, as the idea of raising the girls in several countries is appealing to us.

 

With the plan to not return for at least 4-6 years - maybe longer - does this actually make sense? If it does, please tell me so I won't start a war with DH over this, LOL!

 

 

...and at that time Americans were treated politely (for the most part). People in their thirties and younger will likely have English skills varying from basic to very good.

German is rather difficult to learn not just because of pronounciation but grammar is more complex than English, however it's really different for everybody. If you are good with languages, you may really enjoy it. My niece who had never lived outside the U.S. learned it fairly well and actually spent a semester at the university in Berlin and got around just fine. The kids will probably pick it up quickly if they have a chance playing and interacting with German kids.

 

As far as the house goes, I would think it depends if you are planning on coming back to this area and living there again. If so, I would try to rent it out. Also with the economy the way it is now, renting it out until things perk up a bit may be a good thing even if you want to sell later. You may get a better price then.

If you know that you won't want to come back to the same area, I would see if it can be sold for an acceptable price (whatever is acceptable to you), if so, fine, if not I'd rent it out. Do you have relatives/good friends in the area who could keep an eye on your property? Otherwise you may have to arrange for someone to take care of things for which renters are not responsible.

 

PS: When you are in Stuttgart and need help with some translation, I'd be glad to help you! I need all the practice I can get to keep myself fluent.

 

:)

[momofkhm]

We have friends who went into the mission field for a year and as such did not sell their house - it was only 1 year that they would be gone. They wanted the house to be used in a ministry way and so "rented" it to a recently single mom with 3 daughters for about $300 a month. (The house could rent for around $1000, I'm sure.) They were surprised at the way something as simple as the cookie sheets looked after a year.

 

What I'm saying is that if you leave a furnished house, I would not expect to come home and have things in great shape. You will have to replace things that you wouldn't expect. As others have said you will have the wear and tear of the appliances to deal with so you may have to replace those as well.

 

I do know of someone military who left a house to rent while they left the area. The story I heard is that they forgot about the house until it was paid off. I don't know why they didn't see too much of the rent money. Anyway, once it was paid for and he retired, they moved back to the area. Not here, I think it's up where you are - I know it was a hop, skip and jump from Langley Air Force Base.