Big Buckin' Longhorn Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Some background, my Mom has a looooooooooong history of mental illness complete with several extended stays in psychiatric hospitals. A few years ago she was diagnosed with schizo-affective disorder, but she can't seem to get on a good course of treatment going because if a physician gives her any medication/diagnosis/treatment that she feels (!) is inappropriate, she simply stops going to that doctor. My Dad apparently has been managing/hiding her mental illness for all of our lives, he recently admitted that she had been institutionalized when she was 16 and pregnant with me, and has been getting progressively worse over the years. About a year or so ago they got divorced and he has since stepped away from the situation. We were a 25 year military family and he just won't discuss it so I can't get hm to sit down and give me all of the names of all of the hospitals she has been in so that I can compile her medical records. Since my parents' divorce, my mom has been living alone and without my Dad there to filter the behavior, I am seeing first hand how sick she really is. She's very sick. I have been so worried about her that I have not been sleeping or eating and she has been very heavy on my mind. Finally over the weekend, I had a talk with her and convinced her to accompany me to a nice private mental health facility (thank goodness she has AWESOME insurance) for an evaluation. She agreed but said she definitely wasn't going to stay. I said fine. When we got there and spent a few hours discussing her issues/delusions/manifestations with the medical staff, they refused to let her leave and they admitted her for a standard 72 hour hold. She's not happy. I'm relieved that she will be in a safe place, but not happy either. I've been visiting her during her scheduled visitation times, but every time I go there, there is no doctor - just nurses. I've tried to ask the nurses what her course of treatment will be etc . . . but they say I need to speak with a doctor. I can't seem to get pinned down what time the doctor comes in for rounds, etc . . . Well, Mom called me this morning and says a doctor came in and said she will probably be going home tomorrow. YIKES!!! She is not well. She is very very good at pretending to be well. She has had several high paying jobs, making around 75K a year (and that's a LOT of money here in Central Texas, she has no high school diploma, nor a college degree . . . she's a smooth talker and has gotten any and every job she has ever interviewed for). I can't seem to get the medical staff at this facility to give me any information. I assume we're dealing with HIPPA laws and such. SOOOOOO all of that brings me to this question: How do I go about getting some sort of Power of Attorney or something? I need to be able to speak with her medical staff and make sure they understand how to get to the nitty gritty of her illness, and she doesn't need to be sent home yet. 3 days is not enough time to level out her meds and stabilize her condition. I'm the only one really trying to step up. My dad has emotionally checked out and I'm the oldest of the only two children she has. My little sister is too preoccupied being the little sister. HELP! Oh, and of course, all prayers, well wishes, and positive energy are welcome. If you've made it this far, thanks. Even if no one has any help to offer, I really needed to get that out. Edited March 2, 2009 by TejasMamacita typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I don't know anything to help you but I wanted to give you this :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 My mother was always very good at keeping up appearances, but our homelife was violent and chaotic, and she changed jobs a lot. Now in her old age, she has multi-infarct dementia and it seemingly has made all of her old problems go into full bloom behind closed doors. And she's caring for my father who has very serious medical problems himself. To those who don't know her well, she is just a charming, slightly feeble old lady. Meanwhile... First you need to see if your Mom will sign off on you to contact her doctors. Medical privacy being what it is, this is the first step. You need to find out if she has any kind power of attorney around. Then either way, you need to find a lawyer with a speciality in mental illness and/or eldercare to see what's involved here. Most will give you a free initial consultation or do a phone consulation. I'll warn you that the ones I've talked to about my mom's situation were not encouraging. Basically the law allows for a wide range of "normal," and you need a lot of proof to take over in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kiddies Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 No advice just know you are in my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aly9712 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 My mother also has schizo affective disorder....and was diagnosed in her early twenties. Thankfully she's taking her meds now, but trust me, I know the battles and stress when she goes off. We've had her green warranted, forceably placed in institutions on numerous occassions. She does eventually get herself stabilized. We basically had to PROVE she was an immediate danger to herself. We was having delusions around evil spirits in the house, said they were possessing dad and tried to electicute him. Now to the power of attorney- it's very costly. It may be easier to gain financial power of attorney over her first (if you can show where she's been neglectful in paying debts, etc.) It's extremely difficult to get total power of someone. Your best chance to do it while hospitalized. When they let my mother out once, against the advice of the county mental health department- they basically said for us to do nothing, wait for her to have another lapse (becuase she too is a master actress), then have the power of attorney "stuff" already lined up. It's a sad way to think of it- I wish you best of luck. Start documenting all the times she's been hospitalized, medications, any things that she's let go (say finances, anytime social services may have been called when you guys were young, if she looses jobs constantly, lack of relationships, episodes of mania/depressions, etc.) lastly, FYI- the last time she was let out of the hospital (last year) the deal was that our local county mental health dept. would come of 3X per week to personally give her the meds. Someone else had to administer it the other 4 days (kids, spouse,etc.). Check to see if they have a similar program....needing such intense services would also serve in your court as far as needing to get power of attorney. Many prayers, Aly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 First off- (((((hugs)))))) this is tough. My bil has full blown schizophrenia and it is SO hard to deal with. He had a recent hospitalization and our hospital experience sounds just like yours. We couldn't talk to anyone, docs wouldn't talk to us, he was released WAY too early and the whole thing was pointless. What we have been told is that if we want any control over his medical care, we would have to get a lawyer and go to court to get him declared incompetant. So far, nobody has taken the initiative (read- money) to make that happen. Dh's parents are divorced so there is a constant passing of the buck. I really don't know what we can do about it all. It's so sad. I've known bil since he was 14 and I've watched the full progression of the disease. At this point he's self medicating with pot and booze, and we're at a loss as to what to do next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Your mother sounds a lot like mine. My father also covered for her as much as he could. He passed away and my mother is mostly my sister's responsibility, as I am too far away and my middle sister is too self-absorbed to help. My mother was also fooling the doctors (she can put on very well), so my sister made herself an appointment with my mother's doctor. He listened, understood, and told my mother that he would not prescribe her medicine unless my sister gave it to her. It has been a pain for my sister to have to do this every day, but seems the only option. My mother only lives around the block from her, but she has her own life, job, grandkids, etc. If she gives my mother more than one day of meds at a time, she takes them all or throws them away, depending on her state of mind at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 While my mom doesn't have the same problem, we're entrenched in that battle as well. She refuses to help herself and is an RN so the doctors just give her whatever because she's great at tricking them to get what she wants. It's sad and at this point it is all OUR fault. No blame on her behalf. It just stinks and I'm sorry you're going through this touch situation. As for Power of Attorney. I would consult a lawyer. I believe she can sign it over to you. If she refuses you'll need to get her declared incompetent. That's a drag. Right now, as far as HIPPA is concerned, she can fill out the paper work that includes the doctors being able to discuss her condition(s) with you. If she filled out the forms without you or before this all escalated you can ask the office for a new set of paperwork. Either way, a consultation with an attorney would probably be warranted anyway. HTH and my thoughts are with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Aw shoot this is tough. You need an attorney to explain the commitment /conservatorship(financial)/guardianship(the person) process in your state. She should have a social worker at the facility if so that is also a great resource for a referal. Call your state /county bar association and ask for assistance in locating someone who does family law and or disability as they will /should be familiar with your options. I has to go through 2 commital hearings in my immediate family one for a clearly alzheimer afflicted grandparent and the other for substance abuse. They really are emotionally wrenching and I am an attorney so I knew exactly what to expect. I wish you were here in Iowa as I know who to suggest . You are not so I will try to help with suggesting a call to the local bar association by county or state and urging you to seek support for yourself-this is a long haul . http://www.nami.org/ I have lost 2 immediate family members to depression culminating in suicide so I have some idea what you are facing with regard to denial and manipulation by the person with the disease. BTW I have a younger sister who loves being the baby...yes she is just tons of help when the proverbial ....hits the fan. I hope to have helped and if you need help finding an attorney send me a message and I will do what I can to help locate one in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Buckin' Longhorn Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Thanks everyone for your kind words and great advice. I've got an appointment tomorrow to meet with Mom's social worker who can give me a rundown of how things are looking right now and can get me a sit-down appointment with the doctor for a more thorough explanation of her planned medical course of action. I'm armed with a whole list of questions to ask, thanks to you wise ladies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Oh how sad/awful/painful. I think my mom is mentally ill. I don't know where she is - haven't for years, so I understand some of those feelings. Best wishes and prayers to you (and for your mom). I hope she gets the help she needs and I hope you have peace about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 but she can't seem to get on a good course of treatment going because if a physician gives her any medication/diagnosis/treatment that she feels (!) is inappropriate, she simply stops going to that doctor. **This is extremely common. I've been visiting her during her scheduled visitation times, but every time I go there, there is no doctor - just nurses. I've tried to ask the nurses what her course of treatment will be etc . . . but they say I need to speak with a doctor. I can't seem to get pinned down what time the doctor comes in for rounds, etc . . . **Get the attending's name and send him a letter, leave a letter for her file and if possible email him as well. The doc can't tell you things without a release, but you can tell him/her things. SOOOOOO all of that brings me to this question: How do I go about getting some sort of Power of Attorney or something? **1) this doesn't happen quickly unless the person has life or limb threatening illness and can't express and understanding of risk and benefit of treatments. Then they usually appoint an ad litem. If the situation remains long-term, the family can apply. It is not cheap. 2) Someone, in my state at least, has to be pretty starkers to lose their right to decide things for themselves. I need to be able to speak with her medical staff and make sure they understand how to get to the nitty gritty of her illness, and she doesn't need to be sent home yet. 3 days is not enough time to level out her meds and stabilize her condition. **What you think is stable enough to be released and what the law thinks is two different things. In my state, the doc can petition to change the 72 hr into a 14 day and then that into a 90 day, but if the patient presents themselves well, the judge will let them walk UNLESS there are glaring and well-documented and well-argued problems with this person's level of functioning. The law leans towards civil rights, not a long and happy life. I don't know how to interpolate, so my answers have ** in front. All my answers have to do with MY state's law. I assume most states are somewhere along those lines. Try to find out who is going to do the follow up and the prescribing for her as an out patient and if your state has a county or cachement person assigned (often a social worker). Communicate with that person. Keep in mind, and I know this sounds harsh, that these people are often operating with 20 pounds of potatoes in a 10 pound bag: overworked. AND have been burned over and over by the (as we call it) acorn doesn't fall far from the oak problem. Some families are great, many are nowhere to be found, but some are either a bit mentally ill themselves or are so angry by the whole incurable aspect of this they hate the people who are trying to help. I particularly love getting shouted out by a family member I call for permission to do a chest Xray, but who needs to vent over how a check got lost, the patient's new expensive coat the staff urged family not to leave got stolen, or how bad the food is and their roommate steals their snacks....i.e. things I have no control over. I would quietly document things: photos of rotting food, photos showing how much weigh mum has lost, contentious speeding tickets where mum spat on the cop, evictions, confrontations with neighbors, police calls, pill bottles found all full and saved up, statements about "better off dead", etc. Keep a brief journal to remind you, not to turn over in full to anyone but a mental health team that 1) obviously cares and 2) has the legal juridiction to hold your mother more than three days. Is there a NAMI group near you? Learn the laws in your state so you won't be shocked or angry about what a hospital does with your mother. And keep in mind we do err on the side of civil liberties and people have to get pretty low down and bad before they get a 90 court commit, at least in my state. :grouphug: And PM me if you need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Occasionally the system does work. Different circumstances, but it can work. I got word today that my father's primary basically blocked the hospital from discharging him back into my mother's care, and has declared both of them mentally incapable of making good decisions about his care. He will go to the local nursing home where they have already reserved a bed for him (this is a decent place thankfully). I don't have the details about how this happened, but my brother got a call at work that the deed was already in process. I am so happy because I have suspected for several years that she was abusing him along with all of her other mental firestorms, and he was extremely underweight we he was admitted (I don't think she fed him much). Now we have to figure out what to do with my mother!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Buckin' Longhorn Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Occasionally the system does work. Different circumstances, but it can work. I got word today that my father's primary basically blocked the hospital from discharging him back into my mother's care, and has declared both of them mentally incapable of making good decisions about his care. He will go to the local nursing home where they have already reserved a bed for him (this is a decent place thankfully). I don't have the details about how this happened, but my brother got a call at work that the deed was already in process. I am so happy because I have suspected for several years that she was abusing him along with all of her other mental firestorms, and he was extremely underweight we he was admitted (I don't think she fed him much). Now we have to figure out what to do with my mother!?! Hurray for you! Baby steps, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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