Large family that spends less vs. small family that spends more

[JennifersLost]

I was blogging about sustainable living and the homeschooling movement here, in particular about Christian homeschoolers with large families who live very frugally. (Only bringing up "Christian" because lots of large families are Christian).

 

I wonder if I'm off base here when I think larger families who consume few resources are just as "sustainable" as smaller families who spend/consume more, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

[Rosy]

I think that's a good point--it's consumption that's the problem more than sheer # of people. I don't do a lot of the things you mentioned in your blog--cloth diapers/napkins, baking my own bread, give homemade gifts...but I also haven't been on an airplane in 3 years.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[Momto5]

Very thought provoking. Thanks for posting. I look forward to hearing everyone's comment.

 

I also very much enjoyed your blog. I'm inspired.

[Murphy101]

I commented on your blog

This is something that most large families have argued for some time now.

I don't buy into the over-population myth.

1st world countries have the lowest birth rates and often have the highest rate of pollution.

3rd world countries can't afford to waste anything enough to pollute!

[phathui5]

It makes sense that a family that's very concious and careful would use up less resources than one who isn't, regardless of size. But wouldn't it make more sense to compare apples with apples? It seems you would need to compare families who are both using less or both using more.

[bettyandbob]

what about over generations? Read my example to see what I mean:

Given a family has 9 children (dh uncle's family), the children go on to create 8 more families (1 child died as a teen). Some of these families are large and some are small. It is true that in the children's generation those with smaller families seem to be larger consumers However, now you have 4 small families of large consumers and 4 large families which are small consumers. If the pattern continues there will still be more large consumers produced over time than from one family that chose to limit size to 1 or 2 children, who then go on to produce one or two children.

 

Me--being devil's advocate

[Murphy101]

what about over generations? Read my example to see what I mean:

Given a family has 9 children (dh uncle's family), the children go on to create 8 more families (1 child died as a teen). Some of these families are large and some are small. It is true that in the children's generation those with smaller families seem to be larger consumers However, now you have 4 small families of large consumers and 4 large families which are small consumers. If the pattern continues there will still be more large consumers produced over time than from one family that chose to limit size to 1 or 2 children, who then go on to produce one or two children.

 

Me--being devil's advocate

 

the reverse is just as possible:)

 

my dh's mother is the youngest of 5, none of which had more than 2 and she of which had only 1 - my beloved.

 

however my only child dh has had 9 children so far.

 

to me presuming future generation are a negative on the earth and thus to be avoided is just as useful as presuming future generations are going to trash the place anyhow and thus we shouldn't bother keeping things tidy now.

 

neither perspective is helpful or relivant to what we do NOW, imho.:)

[bettyandbob]

Now, that I think more it's not just a family size issue. Most large families consume less per person out of necessity--there's less money to fund consumption per person.

 

I think you need to teach consuming less as a choice not just a necessity. When it's always done as a necessity, then it's just an external force not an internal behavior. Which is how you get to the person who hated hand me downs and buys everything for her child new, even when it's a suit that will only be worn once. To that person used or new stuff is a symbol.

 

I'm not sure I'm being very clear, but you have to get beyond just doing with less to make it an internal thing.

Edited February 12, 2009 by betty

[mamato9]

I have a large family, 9 children so far. Just looking at the garbage cans on the street on garbage days, you'll see all the houses around have half twice as much garbage as we do.

 

Lora

[JennifersLost]

I do think you're right about the generations, Betty - of course that could get out of control. And obviously, not every large family is frugal, either.

 

I wouldn't mind the world's population evening out and even decreasing - I don't want to live in a world with the population spiraling out of control.

 

But I do think that we can buy ourselves some leeway if we're all more frugal.

[Momto5]

 

I think you need to teach consuming less as a choice not just a necessity. When it's always done as a necessity, then it's just an external force not an internal behavior.

 

I think this is a valid point. Many of the large families I know are frugal for for more than one reason. One reason is that there are more people to take care of. Another equally compelling reason for them is that they place a higher value on children and family than stuff. This is not at all to imply that people with small families value things more than children. I simply mean to point out that the large families I know don't tend to shop as much and usually have fewer toys as a whole (maybe because there's always someone to play with :) )

 

My unsupported, unscientific assumptions noted - Does anyone have any statistics on income and large families - i.e. are families with a larger number of children less affluent?

[Parrothead]

It makes sense that a family that's very concious and careful would use up less resources than one who isn't, regardless of size. But wouldn't it make more sense to compare apples with apples? It seems you would need to compare families who are both using less or both using more.

:iagree: We are a family of three with one and a half working vehicles, a mom that bakes our bread, dries clothes on the line, uses cloth napkins, gardens when I have space, shops for groceries with a list and lives in a house that has under 1000 sq ft.

 

I really think you'd have to compare small families to small families within the same income bracket. A small family with an income of $50, 000 has less money to consume than a small family with an income of $150,000.

 

Also I kind of was a bit insulted by the post. The way it sounded to me was that only large Christian families do the things you described. Which isn't true. I know families with only 1 or 2 kids that shop at thrift stores and spend/consume less than others. These families aren't all Christian either.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Parrothead

[dirty ethel rackham]

[quote=Parrothead;789687

Also I kind of was a bit insulted by the post. The way it sounded to me was that only large Christian families do the things you described. Which isn't true. I know families with only 1 or 2 kids that shop at thrift stores and spend/consume less than others. These families aren't all Christian either.

 

I didn't get that impression at all. I took it as a defense of those people with large families who may be criticized for using up too many of the world's resources, when, in actuality, they tend to use up less than many smaller families who claim to be "green". I didn't see it as a condemnation or exlusion of those of use who have smaller families and live similar lifestyles.

[JennifersLost]

Yeah, Dirty Ethel read my intentions right. I think we have to be careful about all generalizations and this is something I (as a "liberal" non-Christian) have learned from coming to this board and being exposed to so many who hold another viewpoint.

 

I understand completely people's concerns about world population, but I really don't like it when people sneer at other folks without looking at the whole picture. (Actually, I just don't like it when people sneer). I especially take umbrage with young twenty-something professional men who sneer at women who have large families.

 

My husband has a saying which goes something like, "It's not the superheroes who save the world, it's the men who quietly do the right thing." (He doesn't mean to be sexist - he just says it when I start complaining about men in high places). I think that holds true for women, too. There may be a bunch of young people running around trying to improve the world, but there are also tons of women/wives/mothers quietly raising their families in a frugal way and that's just as important.

[LaxMom]

Another lib, non-Christian "greenie", in total agreement. (Though I would point out that it's not just Christian homeschooling families that are "large" - apparently, we crossed into the "large" realm with 4... really?)

 

On the generational consideration, I think it's kind of interesting. My parents are each one of five. I am an only, have two cousins who are onlies, and only one uncle has more than two, and one aunt has none. Of my cousins, I have the largest family, with four. One of the other onlies has three. Of the others, eight have none (all in their 30s except one), three have one and the others have two. On my husband's side, his dad has one brother (no children), his mom is one of four. Her siblings had 4, 2 and none (one sister never married). Of his cousins, three have children, 2, 2, and 1. (And all of them are his age - 39 - or older) My sister-in-law and brother-in-law are not married (in their 30s) and neither has plans to have children. So, maybe it really balances out, with the exception of some very traditional families who tend to, culturally, have very large families, like the Amish.

 

I think it's just as easy to look at the homeschooling community as a whole, though, for looking at functional frugality and it's green extension. Whatever the religious persuasion, homeschooling families largely rely on one income and take the steps necessary to sustain that, many of which are green by their very nature (gardening to supply some or all of the family's produce, for instance, or using durable goods instead of disposable).

 

But yes, I think you said it well. :001_smile:

[JennifersLost]

Yep - that's a good point about homeschoolers getting along on one income most of the time and therefore being frugal.

[cathmom]

Since I have an aunt with no dc and my three sisters and deceased bil have/had no dc, I figure my dc are merely replacement level for them and my dh and me. But I also don't believe overpopulation is a concern, I just have this argument ready in case anyone ever gives me a hard time. Which no one has ever done. :D

[Holly IN]

I do not buy into the overpopulation myth at all. Now dh and I have 3 children (would love many more but God has other plans for us). Dh works and I work part time (soon will be full time later this year). We live in a 3,000 sq foot home with 3 acres of land.

 

The only paper product we use regualry is toilet paper. We do use paper towels but only to clean the toilets. I use cloth napkins and cloth towels for everything else. We use wash rags to wash our face (no beauty paper products such as cotton balls). We do use cotton balls but only for first aid.

 

We do go with less is more motto. We are slowly getting to that. I have pruned my closet. Dh has pruned his. We both wear our jeans for several days before throwing them in the laundry room. The kids do the same. We do not do this with shirts or underwares.

 

We burn wood for fuel and use propane (now we keep our furnace set on 68 in the winter ).

 

I do not bake our own bread (due to lack of time). I would love to. If I didn't have a job then yes I would bake my own bread.

 

We do buy organic milk due to 3 of us having sensitivity to other milks. We buy organic canned pasta. We buy Pert :D. We buy Tresemme conditioner. We buy Bath Body works bubble baths.

 

We do keep lights off when we are not in the room. We do however keep one computer on which is my main computer due to the wireless set up on that computer. I have to keep that one on. We do have 4 computers (soon will have 5) :D:D. The 3 we have is turned off when not going to be in use for more than an hour. The one we keep on at all times. TV is off when not in use.

 

Dh has a work vehicle which they pay for his gas and everything that goes along with it. I have my van that I take the kids to their classes and do shopping as well as go to work.

 

I consider us middle of the road. We are strict with what we buy. We wait until something dies before buying the next new thing.

 

For ex: Our last tv lasted 11 years. The flat screens came out about 5years ago, roughly. We didn't go out and buy it. We wanted to but decided to wait until the tv we had died. Well it just died last summer. We had a tv guy come out to look at it. He said that he can fix it but can't gaurantee it will work. He highly recommended us to pitch the tv and buy a new one. It was either spend $300 with no gaurantee that the tv will work or save the $300 and buy something that is gauranteed. So we opted to buy a flatscreen. (we had money in our savings and we felt that it is time to buy)

 

Same with the van. Our van is going on 8 years strong. It is very dependable. We need to get work done on it this year but we plan on keeping that thing going until it dies then we will buy a new vehicle.

 

We lived in our house for 14 years. We love it.

 

WE are more of the middle of the road type family. Frugal in some ways but not in others. We do not think in terms of our footprint being carbon. We believe our footprint is made by GOD.

 

I do believe we need to be responsible with our family and our resources.

 

Now on the flip side...My dh's brothers... both of them have 5 children each. One is more wasteful than we are. The other one is about the same as us.

 

So I really do not buy that large families are more resourceful than the small. I think it all depends on the mindset of each families. I know one family with 8 children. They are very resourceful and frugal. I also know of another family with 12 and they are the least resourceful family I know. So I really do not buy what the OP is saying. It is more of a mindset than anything else.

 

Lastly, dh and I have a savings account so we do not blow our money. My dh's brother do...they blow their money on stuff with every single paycheck. So they are living paycheck to paycheck where we are not doing that.

 

Again a mindset!!

Holly

[Caroline]

I really think it is not about how much money you spend. I think it is more about how you spend your money.

[Momto5]

I really think it is not about how much money you spend. I think it is more about how you spend your money.

 

I love this! Mind if I use it as my signature line?:)

[Holly IN]

I really think it is not about how much money you spend. I think it is more about how you spend your money.

 

I totally AGREE with this statement!!

 

Holly