hsingscrapper Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 How do you motivate a reluctant writer? I know the school did a writing assignment every week or so complete with pre-planning and rough draft and a typed finished product. He hated every minute of it because it was never good enough for the teacher. I've seen and heard him make up tons of stories off the top of his head for his little brother. Is there a way or a program to help him pin some things down on paper? I've culled all of the free spots on the internet for a writing program but I'm at a loss. What does everyone else use? Or what ideas do you have to motivate my ds9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 :lurk5: anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Just a thought....Bravewriter? You might want to grab a cup of coffee and take some time to read through the site. But there is a link for helping the reluctant writer: http://www.bravewriter.com/getting-started/tracks/reluctant-writer/ HTH or gives you a jumping off point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Just a thought....Bravewriter? You might want to grab a cup of coffee and take some time to read through the site. But there is a link for helping the reluctant writer: http://www.bravewriter.com/getting-started/tracks/reluctant-writer/ HTH or gives you a jumping off point... It sounds good but it's a bit out of my price range atm. I'm hoping for a solution that's preferably $20 or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria/ME Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I haven't bought any of the Bravewriter stuff. (Well, okay we're going to use The Arrow every other month or so...that's 9.95 a month) But I have used the Bravewriter Lifestyle as a springboard for our writing. This page seems to be for reluctant writers, too. Not trying to push Bravewriter but it's the only thing I can come up with! I'm sure others may have so me good ideas, too! Another thought is this. When my daughter was 8/9 she really liked to make her own comic books. She would illustrate and write them. From there the idea of writing story's took off. From reading fiction she would start to pick up on literary ideas used. Like foreshadowing, alliteration and so on. Would picking out these aspect of others' writings inspire him? What inspires him? You mentioned he likes to tell story's to his brother...could he be induced to write them down as a gift to his brother? As a scrapbook of story's? What is it about writing he doesn't like? Is it the act of writing, the actual penmenship? Or is it that he feels overwhelmed at the blank page? Maybe figuring that out would give you a starting point as to where he is coming from in his reluctance? Just some thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 My dd started Jump In recently. It is designed for middle schoolers, but you might could read it with him and adjust it for his level. It is specifically written for reluctant writers. My dd has really excelled since starting it. We LOVE it. It would be over $20 for the student book and teacher book. You might could find a set used and just have him answer on his own paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 He's just 9??? I cannot imagine *myself* doing writing projects like that when *I* was 9. I was at least 12 before I had writing assignments of any depth, and rough drafts and all that were *not* required; I was a junior in high school before that was even touched on. Writing Strands, Level 3. Simple, step by step, deceptively comprehensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 How do you motivate a reluctant writer? I know the school did a writing assignment every week or so complete with pre-planning and rough draft and a typed finished product. He hated every minute of it because it was never good enough for the teacher. I've seen and heard him make up tons of stories off the top of his head for his little brother. Is there a way or a program to help him pin some things down on paper? I've culled all of the free spots on the internet for a writing program but I'm at a loss. What does everyone else use? Or what ideas do you have to motivate my ds9? Writing With Ease! http://www.peacehillpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=111 Go to this page for WWE, scroll about halfway down, and read the sample chapters 3 and 4. It'll address the concerns you expressed, help you understand your son's reluctance, and give you an overall vision for the writing process. And the book covers 4 years of instruction. Much cheaper than other programs out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Wordsmith Apprentice. A 9 yr old can do it. Its lots of fun! Great for a reluctant writer and in your price range. Its a great way to get him started putting thoughts on paper. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'll have to do some serious saving in order to afford WWE at this point. It sounds like it would be a perfect fit, though. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deece in MN Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Here is a web-site that has a nice introduction to sentence and paragraph writing. It might be a good place to start. http://www.tustin.k12.ca.us/cyberseminar/paragraph.htm Also, I wouldn't expect my dc to do this on his/her own. I would go through it with them in small chunks and then practice until it is easy/natural. This will take some time so don't rush through it or expect his sentences to be wonderful right away. Just continue to practice and help him by modeling good sentences and eventually paragraphs. At your ds age, this would be plenty. And it is free! :) ETA: I just wanted to add that you should keep this fun. One problem with writing programs is that they dictate to the child what to write about and many times the topics are of no interest to the child. This web-site is nice because it gives the basic process and leaves the topics up to you (yes, it gives some example topics you can use, but you can ignore them and come up with your own). I would use topics that are of an interest to your ds as this will help ease some of the "pain" of writing. :) Edited February 13, 2009 by Deece in MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeinfl Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) You can backtrack and start up from week one. http://smallworldathome.blogspot.com...ful-words.html HTH, Dee sorry that it didn't work...try http://www.smallworldathome.blogspot.com Edited February 14, 2009 by deeinfl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 You can backtrack and start up from week one. http://smallworldathome.blogspot.com...ful-words.html HTH, Dee The link didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 These are free: http://ywp.nanowrimo.org/workbooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Heidi, this should work. http://smallworldathome.blogspot.com/2009/01/introducing-smallworlds-wordsmithery.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) I'll have to do some serious saving in order to afford WWE at this point. It sounds like it would be a perfect fit, though. *sigh* All you really *need* to get started with WWE is the book - the workbooks aren't essential. I don't know if you were thinking they were...also, you can find WWE on amazon.com probably, for a little less, or maybe you can find it used somewhere for even cheaper. It's four years' worth of instruction all wrapped up in one little book. And you can use *interesting* library books for the writing exercises in it. It's a really good deal and excellent instruction. You also could do what's in WWE, by yourself. It was only published last year, but many people have done the skills in it for years before it was published. Basically, it's narration training, and copywork/dictation training. So for example, for narration with your son, you could read him a selection from a history/science/literature book - maybe 5-10 paragraphs. Then go back through, ask him some questions about the passage (who, what, where, when, how, why type of questions that he will be able to find the answers for), and have him answer in complete sentences. If he doesn't, turn his answers into complete sentences, and have him repeat what you say. If he doesn't know the answer, reread the part of the passage where the answer is found, or let him look at it. When you've done this, go back again and ask him questions about the major points of the passage and again have him answer in complete sentences, helping him if he needs it. Finally, ask him to tell you the most important parts of the passage in one or two sentences, and write it down for him. This will be his narration. Basically, you'll have gone over the passage with him 2 times and he'll have processed the info. verbally with you and should have an easier time then putting his thoughts into words. On a different day you work on putting words to paper via copywork/dictation. Copywork helps kids copy mechanics of writing (periods, commas, quotation marks, etc.) and dictation helps them with this, after much copywork practice, but adds the element of having to remember what you read to them and remember where to put periods, etc. So you have to make sure copywork has been practiced enough before doing dictation. Copywork: pick a nicely written sentence from history/science/literature books, that includes mechanics you want him to practice. Start with short sentences, work your way up to longer. Write it for him, and have him copy it, the way you wrote it, underneath yours. Correct as he goes along, explaining (or asking, if you think he might know) why the period is there or why the sentence begins with capital letter. Dictation: After practicing copywork for awhile - take a short copywork sentence from the day before, and dictate it to him, about 3 times, making sure you pause at commas and stop at periods, so he can hear where to put the marks. Then let him write it down and you correct him as he goes. It's tough for kids at first, but if you keep doing it, they will eventually get the routine and learn to listen closely and picture the sentence in their mind. Later in the week, you can go through the narration process again, and at the same time, use one of the sentences for dictation practice. WWE explains all the progression much better, but that's the gist of it. Practice narration, gradually lengthening the passages and difficulty, and the amount of sentences in the narration. Along with a couple of narrations a week, practice copywork, gradually lengthening the sentences. When comfy with copywork, merge into dictation and keep practicing and lengthening that, while keeping on going with narrations. Eventually, you are going to bring narration and dictation together, so that the child is narrating a longer passage, and writing down, from his own dictation, his own 3 or 4 sentences. Then he can keep practicing this, and when comfortable with this process, use these short paragraphs to improve on paragraphs with some kind of paragraph instruction (we use R&S - and we only started this working on paragraph stuff in grade 5). I hope this explanation helps some, since you mentioned needing to save up for WWE and thinking it would be perfect. I'd greatly encourage you to try to find a cheap copy of WWE, or even get it from your library for a few weeks so you can see how this all works. Good luck!:) Edited February 14, 2009 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Heidi, this should work. http://smallworldathome.blogspot.com/2009/01/introducing-smallworlds-wordsmithery.html Thanks, Polly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 All you really *need* to get started with WWE is the book - the workbooks aren't essential. I don't know if you were thinking they were...also, you can find WWE on amazon.com probably, for a little less, or maybe you can find it used somewhere for even cheaper. It's four years' worth of instruction all wrapped up in one little book. And you can use *interesting* library books for the writing exercises in it. It's a really good deal and excellent instruction. You also could do what's in WWE, by yourself. It was only published last year, but many people have done the skills in it for years before it was published. Basically, it's narration training, and copywork/dictation training. So for example, for narration with your son, you could read him a selection from a history/science/literature book - maybe 5-10 paragraphs. Then go back through, ask him some questions about the passage (who, what, where, when, how, why type of questions that he will be able to find the answers for), and have him answer in complete sentences. If he doesn't, turn his answers into complete sentences, and have him repeat what you say. If he doesn't know the answer, reread the part of the passage where the answer is found, or let him look at it. When you've done this, go back again and ask him questions about the major points of the passage and again have him answer in complete sentences, helping him if he needs it. Finally, ask him to tell you the most important parts of the passage in one or two sentences, and write it down for him. This will be his narration. Basically, you'll have gone over the passage with him 2 times and he'll have processed the info. verbally with you and should have an easier time then putting his thoughts into words. On a different day you work on putting words to paper via copywork/dictation. Copywork helps kids copy mechanics of writing (periods, commas, quotation marks, etc.) and dictation helps them with this, after much copywork practice, but adds the element of having to remember what you read to them and remember where to put periods, etc. So you have to make sure copywork has been practiced enough before doing dictation. Copywork: pick a nicely written sentence from history/science/literature books, that includes mechanics you want him to practice. Start with short sentences, work your way up to longer. Write it for him, and have him copy it, the way you wrote it, underneath yours. Correct as he goes along, explaining (or asking, if you think he might know) why the period is there or why the sentence begins with capital letter. Dictation: After practicing copywork for awhile - take a short copywork sentence from the day before, and dictate it to him, about 3 times, making sure you pause at commas and stop at periods, so he can hear where to put the marks. Then let him write it down and you correct him as he goes. It's tough for kids at first, but if you keep doing it, they will eventually get the routine and learn to listen closely and picture the sentence in their mind. Later in the week, you can go through the narration process again, and at the same time, use one of the sentences for dictation practice. WWE explains all the progression much better, but that's the gist of it. Practice narration, gradually lengthening the passages and difficulty, and the amount of sentences in the narration. Along with a couple of narrations a week, practice copywork, gradually lengthening the sentences. When comfy with copywork, merge into dictation and keep practicing and lengthening that, while keeping on going with narrations. Eventually, you are going to bring narration and dictation together, so that the child is narrating a longer passage, and writing down, from his own dictation, his own 3 or 4 sentences. Then he can keep practicing this, and when comfortable with this process, use these short paragraphs to improve on paragraphs with some kind of paragraph instruction (we use R&S - and we only started this working on paragraph stuff in grade 5). I hope this explanation helps some, since you mentioned needing to save up for WWE and thinking it would be perfect. I'd greatly encourage you to try to find a cheap copy of WWE, or even get it from your library for a few weeks so you can see how this all works. Good luck!:) So, in a nutshell, I could do this: 1.) Use the questions from SotW AG as writing prompts and try to push the envelope ever further every week? Like one sentence this week and two sentences next week and so on? and 2.) Use the copywork suggestions from Ambleside Online while tying in the corresponding book for reading practice? Then work in dictation when the copywork becomes too easy, right? Would that cover it or am I still missing something vital? I'm not looking for a 30 page essay from the boy but I'm tired of staring at one-word answers to just about everything. It becomes disheartening for me as a teacher. :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I have a reluctant writer- now aged 13. At 9, a couple of lines a day was all he could manage. I would: eliminate creative writing for the most part, for now- unless you want to try freewriting, which was good for my son. (its on the Bravewriter website- you dont need to buy the program). Back up and work on copywork, dictation, and narration. Do daily writing, but keep it minimal. Cover other work orally. We have kept him up to date in all areas by covering a LOT orally. Dont expect him to enjoy it, just have him to the minimum- daily. My son STILL gets an aching hand from handwriting. He did a one paragraph dictation yesterday, after 7 weeks of summer holidays, and he had to stop 3 times for me to massage his hand. It relaly hurt him. Teach him to type- it solves a lot of problems- but keep him handwriting as well, so that he builds those muscles. I highly recommed Writing Without Fear- a lecture by SWB available through Peacehill Press. It is excellent. At 9, I would still have to write up my son's narrations at times. Slowly slowly he learned to do part, then all of it himself. Give LOTS of encouragement, be firm but gentle. It is still my son's weakest area. He was diagnosed dyslexic a year ago, which helped give me even more compassion for his difficulties. My aim is progress, not comparing him to other students or his age level- he jsut needs to keep improving, slowly, and he is. Me getting frustrated that he is not where I tihnk he should be, doesnt help. I have tried several of the programs others have mentioned, and they havent worked for us. Right now, IEW History writing lessons (Medieval) is working well. Classical Writing Aesop was very successful- imitative writing helped my son a lot. Having to think of what to write was so hard for him when teh physical act of writing was difficult. Now however he loves his weekly freewrite because I dont help him "fix it"- I jsut encourage him to let it flow. Its a journey, and I havent found a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 (edited) So, in a nutshell, I could do this: 1.) Use the questions from SotW AG as writing prompts and try to push the envelope ever further every week? Like one sentence this week and two sentences next week and so on? and 2.) Use the copywork suggestions from Ambleside Online while tying in the corresponding book for reading practice? Then work in dictation when the copywork becomes too easy, right? Would that cover it or am I still missing something vital? I'm not looking for a 30 page essay from the boy but I'm tired of staring at one-word answers to just about everything. It becomes disheartening for me as a teacher. :crying: I think you've got the basic idea. I don't know what the questions are in the SOTW AG, but I assume they are comprehension questions. And since SWB wrote them (she wrote WWE), I assume they are sets of questions for each ch. or section of SOTW. So, I'd not really use them as writing prompts, but I'd go through them all FIRST, before having him (or you) writing anything. Then, ask for a 1 or 2 sentence narration, AFTER having talked about the passage using the questions. That way, he is getting the bigger picture, the main ideas of the passage, not just one answer to one question. You want to talk him through being able to grasp the big picture, and then write down a couple of sentences in summary. In WWE, it takes 3-4 years to work from one or two sentence narrations to 3 or 4 (or 5?) sentence summaries by the end of level 4. It's not like you change the amount of sentences each week. You practice the thinking over and over, and *gradually* increasing the amount of sentences (along with amount of passage read), as they master the previous skill. You want him to succeed in thinking it through, not get frustrated by increasing too quickly. Maybe someone else who has the AG and WWE will chime in. It's hard for me to explain, but if you could get hold of WWE and read through it, you'd see the pattern clearly. About the AO copywork...I haven't seen those either, but it it's plain old copying sentences, then sure!:) You can copy anything you are reading. And yes, start dictation when copywork is comfortable. Those one word answers will disappear if you do narration. :) And he will probably get a whole lot more confident with putting his thoughts into words - not just for narration, but for life.:D EDIT: I like a lot of what Peela wrote. She has also helped me through a lot of "how to teach writing" questions. Also, the writing CD info. is contained in the WWE sample chapters. Edited February 14, 2009 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingscrapper Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thank you all for your suggestions! :D I'll be trying this next week with him as we are done for this week. I'll keep you all posted on how things are going. I honestly thought maybe he was too old for me to be writing his narrations for him. Would having him copy his narrations be a good thing for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookmomma Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I know I'm just jumping in on this thread, but I understand your frustration and wanted to share my ideas. If he still needs you to write the narrations, then write them and have him copy it. OR you can write down his narration on your own scratch paper, and dictate it to him--word by word, including punctuation marks and spelling if necessary. I even sound out the words to help my son realize that he *does* know how to spell the words. Then when he's finished, have him read it back to you. Easy as that. He doesn't need to write research papers at this age. Let him get used to getting organized thoughts onto the paper. Let him feel some success before moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 You could have him copy *part* of his narrations - maybe one paragraph? Since he does such great stories for his brother, maybe he could record one of these stories and illustrate it if he likes drawing, so it would be sort of an illustrated book-on-tape? If he doesn't like drawing, he could just record it and it might help encourage him in his storytelling ability. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I honestly thought maybe he was too old for me to be writing his narrations for him. Would having him copy his narrations be a good thing for him? I thought that, too, about my ds. I struggled for his grades 1 to 4 with how to conduct writing (I used suggestions from WTM, but WWE made the suggestions so much clearer - but it just got published), so I pushed harder than I needed to, I guess. Anyway, like the other posters said, I think copying parts of his narrations would be good. I'd also keep him copying from other writers, though, so he gets a chance to expand on his skills. If he only narrates simple sentences, he wouldn't get a chance to copy more complicated sentences, with all their structures and varied punctuation. So still have him copy from good writers, and vary what you have him copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara R Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I honestly thought maybe he was too old for me to be writing his narrations for him. Would having him copy his narrations be a good thing for him? I've got a 5th grade daughter that I've recently pulled out of school part-day to work on skills, including writing. She uses some crazy grammar when communicating orally, making it difficult for those around her to understand what she means. So I thought that narration would be terrific for her. I got Writing with Ease and read through it. I'm using the general vision at this point, not the specific plan. If you want the general vision, you can get that from reading some of the sample chapters online or from the $5 "Writing without Fear" workshop CD. With my daughter, first we do the narration. First I let her talk about what she wants to write. She spills a lot of details that don't always make sense, but I let her get it out. Then we start narrowing things down. If it's a story that she's summarizing, I ask her to narrow it down to four complete sentences. What is the main idea? Or, if it's a story, what happened first? She tells a sentence. If it doesn't make sense, I revise it, and she repeats it. Once she has the sentence I have her record it into a digital recorder. (This is a very handy device to have around for older reluctant writers.) I have her record her narration in this form, one sentence at a time, until she has 4 or 5 sentences. Then she takes dictation from the recorder. She listens to each sentence once or twice, repeats it, and then writes. I make sure that she has the whole sentence in her head before she starts writing. After writing each sentence, she plays the sentence again to make sure she didn't skip any words (which is a mistake she tends to make). Then we go over it and correct any spelling or other mistakes. So far we've used this method to help her write her school science fair conclusion paragraph, summaries of The Boxcar Children chapters (her choice), and a creative story that she wants to write. I suppose I ought to start interspersing dictation from other authors as well, but for now we are following her interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Heidi, I hope you find this encouraging. My oldest at home cried when asked to write a few lines about a trip she and her dad took. My normally compliant kid almost had an anxiety attack. She cried over two sentences. I thought I had failed her. About 9 months later, she announced that she was going to write a book. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Less than a year later, she participated in National Novel Writing Month by writing over 20,000 words during November alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hihoboneo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 For something fun, you could have him tell you his story and you write it down, or type it for him. Then you could go over it together and work on grammar, etc. Also, having him record his story on a tape recorder. Bonnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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