If you had a dc who was pretty advanced in math at a young age (5 or 6)

[HappyGrace]

can you please share what your sequence looked like, including curriculum you used?

 

My younger ds is proving to be much more advanced than older dd, so I'm interested to see what others have done with an early advanced math student since this is my first time dealing with it. I have some pretty good ideas of what I might do, which I'll be happy to share, but I'd love it if you could please mention what the first five years or so of math instruction looked like for your dc in this situation! And I realize kids are all over the map with this stuff and they all differ widely-just interested in seeing generally what others have done. Thanks so much!

[Oakblossoms]

I would try and not let them burn out on Math.

 

I would probably combine two programs. I really like MUS and it works well with Singapore. I thought TWTM actually talks about combining two programs, but I can't remember?

[abbeyej]

More or less what we did (without really planning it all out ahead of time)

 

age 5 --> Horizons 1 and 2

6 --> Horizons 3 and Singapore 2b/3a/3b

7 --> Horizons 4 and Singapore 4

8 --> Horizons 5 and Singapore 5a

9 -- > Horizons 6 and Singapore 5b/6, Keys to Percents/ Fractions/ Algebra

 

We've also used a bunch of supplements along the way, like

Primary Grade Challenge Math (Zaccaro)

Challenge Math (Zaccaro)

Singapore supplements (Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems)

Penrose the Mathematical Cat

Number Devil (book and cd-rom game)

Math Olympiad (our little club meets weekly and works through sample problems from the Math Olympiad books when it isn't a contest week -- this could easily be done at home without a group)

other little math puzzles, etc, from MindWare and things like that...

 

Now, if you ask me my plan for *next* year... Eeek...

[EKS]

I have two students here who are/are becoming accelerated math students.

 

I started homeschooling my 12 yo when he was in 2nd grade. He tested into Saxon 2 (one question away from placing into 3). He did Saxon Math 2 and 3 that year and Saxon 5/4 and 6/5 in 3rd grade. I added Singapore 4AB + CWP in 3rd grade. Then he did MUS Beta-Zeta in 4th grade. He started Jacobs Algebra in 5th and did half of it. Then he started Jacobs Algebra again in 6th and finished in the fall of 7th. He just recently began Jacobs Geometry.

 

The above is probably an example of what *not* to do. It has turned out ok, but I wouldn't want to repeat it.

 

Now this is what I'm doing with my just turned 7yo, who is in 1st grade. He did Singapore 1A in preschool, then RightStart B during the first part of K. He did Singapore 2A during the second semester of K. Then he did the first 90 lessons of Saxon Math 3, which drove him crazy. We recently switched to Singapore 2B+IP+CWP and he is doing *wonderfully* with it. At this point I intend to stick with Singapore (possibly including NEM) until he is ready for Jacobs Algebra.

 

Now if I had this to do over again, I would have the child do RightStart A and B and then switch to Singapore 2A and do Singapore with the Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems books all the way through. I would (and will with my younger boy) supplement with things like Challenge Math.

[Sahamamama]

I started homeschooling my 12 yo when he was in 2nd grade. He tested into Saxon 2 (one question away from placing into 3). He did Saxon Math 2 and 3 that year and Saxon 5/4 and 6/5 in 3rd grade. I added Singapore 4AB + CWP in 3rd grade. Then he did MUS Beta-Zeta in 4th grade. He started Jacobs Algebra in 5th and did half of it. Then he started Jacobs Algebra again in 6th and finished in the fall of 7th. He just recently began Jacobs Geometry.

 

The above is probably an example of what *not* to do. It has turned out ok, but I wouldn't want to repeat it.

 

Do you mind if I ask, "Why not?" :bigear: What were the pitfalls to be avoided? TIA!

[Mandy in TN]

Like Kai I’ll first give you and example of what not to do.

In 2nd grade at 7/8yo ds did Saxon 3 in a traditional classroom.

Then he came home.

8/9yo Saxon 54; Singapore 3

9/10yo Saxon 65; Singapore 4

10/11yo Saxon 76; Singapore 5

11/12yo Saxon 87; Singapore 6

12/13yo MUS Alg1; MUS Geometry

13/14yo MUS Alg2 (here hit puberty and his brains began to leak out his ear.)

14/15yo LoF and other Geometry review/ TT Alg2

I messed up. I switched him to MUS, because that is where my oldest needed to be. I should have left him in a Saxon-NEM combo. I switched for ease. Also, I was concerned about teaching NEM. Now he has lost so much ground he is almost back to grade level.:confused:

My little guy is a K’er. We did a bunch of stuff. At first they are moving so fast and want to do math all day and night that it’s just hard to keep it in the house. He played with Cuisenaire rods, Wedgits, Duplos, dominoes, dice, cards, calculators, and 100’s charts. He did the first Miquon book, MUS Alpha, Singapore PM 1 and 2, and Kumon math workbooks. He has been doing Kumon math at the center since 4 1/2 yo. He is now doing Saxon 54. I am committed to leaving him in Saxon through 87. I am also committed to leaning him in Kumon. I will begin supplementing with Singapore CWP in the fall. I don’t know how that will work out. I am not sure what we will do after Saxon 87. I may use CD or I may stick with Saxon.

Mandy

[Alessandra]

I have a math-y boy, but have tried not to accelerate math too much. But we often approach other subjects via math. For example, when we studied oceans, ds made graphs & charts of relative sizes and depths of oceans (while dd read about cute ocean mammals). We also do math related subjects - chess and snap circuits would be two examples.

[patchfire]

Dd is very strong in math. I don't remember exactly what we started when, but we're halfway through her third grade year (age 8) and by May, she will have finished:

 

all Miquon books

Developmental Math Levels One through Twelve

part of Developmental Math Level Thirteen

some of the Keys to... Series

and very likely, Life of Fred Fractions

 

I'm currently trying to figure out what to do for all next year, because she can already do a significant portion of 'pre-algebra' and will easily master the rest of it by this time next year. At the same time, I don't want a 9 yo 4th grader (she's an August birthday, so it's not even like she's an "older" 4th grader) doing algebra!

[Dayle in Guatemala]

My dd12 has always been quite advanced in math. We used Miquon combined with Singapore when she was younger and started with Saxon 54 when she was about 8 years old. She's now doing Algebra 1 and flying through it without any help from me!

 

I also want to give a thumbs up for the Key To... series. We've used them a lot to reinforce or introduce new concepts or as a little more practice on some more challenging concepts.

[Closeacademy]

If I had it to do over again, I would not push math and speed though the workbooks.

 

I would do living math, play lots of games and have fun with it until they were a solid age 8 when I would start working through the Singapore math workbooks at their pace having levels 1 through 4 on hand.

 

What I did:

 

preK--Singapore Math Earlybird books, Primary Math 1a

K--Primary Math 1a/2a/2b

1st--Rightstart Math B & C

2nd--Singapore Math 2a/b

3rd--Singapore Math 3a/b

 

I think that she would have enjoyed math more if we had just played games, read math books, explored fun math projects, etc. And then started the workbooks later on and let her run through them. I runied her by pushing the math workbooks.

 

Just a cautionary tale.:001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

We were a mess...

 

DD:

before 7: a couple levels of Abeka; Miquon Math

the 3 months she turned 7 within: EPGY 3rd-6th

7-8 yrs old: Dolciani Algebra

Sometime: The college's Beg, Int, and Adv Algebras

As a teenager: Lial's through college algebra; LOF Geo, Adv Alg, Trig and part of Calc

This year (15-16): College for PreCalc-Calc II and Stats

 

(btw, I SOOOOOOOOOOO do not suggest such a craziness. It just worked out that way, MOSTLY because dd was so asynchronous as well as her being so young at times)

 

DS:

I honestly cannot remember! I know he used a couple levels of Abeka

Lial's BCM in what we called 5th (but there was no 6th grade)

Dolciani for preAlgebra

Dolciani for Algebra I

Systemath.com's program for gaps and Algebra I and next year Algebra II

(not really advanced because though he's REALLY good at math generally, he has issues with gaps and regressions. So just on the good side of Normal--finishing Algebra II in 9th).

 

If I had it to do over again....

 

I very likely would pick ONE program based on the individual child and despite a second program and fillers, would use ONE program throughout. Picks would be Singapore, Horizon's, possibly Abeka, Miquon.

[abbeyej]

I'm interested that so many people say they "regret" what they did with their kids. No regrets here yet. That isn't to say I've done everything perfectly by any means! But I tried to meet ds where he was at each point, and always provide material that had him working consistently at a level that was "a little bit hard". And I tried to work on breadth and depth -- both a wide range of problems, and going deep with the problems we did.

 

I've thought of more supplements we've done as well:

Right Start math games (never used their curriculum, though I kept thinking I would at least do their geometry program at some point. Maybe I still will...)

Muggins Math (lots of fun -- one of my very favorite math games)

others mentioned chess and Snap Circuits -- ds has enjoyed those as well (and a chess club is a great place to meet other kids who enjoy math and logic puzzles)

First Lego League isn't really "math" (though there's some of that), but ds joined a team when he was 7 (the recommended minimum is 9, but they only enforce the maximum age limit, so if you can find a team where your child fits --or start one -- they can join at a younger age)... And the robotics programming and problem solving with FLL has been a great supplement as well...

 

Oh, and I didn't mention this above, but we did math drills as well. Basic operations drill. It absolutely made all the fun, conceptual math more delightful *not* to have to stop and figure out the simple arithmetic bits of it all the time. Yes, drills can seem a bit like drudgery, but our experience was that five minutes of intensive drill a day (math vitamins!), sped up all the rest of math and freed ds to focus on the more interesting conceptual bits the rest of the time.

 

I really don't feel that I "pushed" or hurt ds' enjoyment of math. As I said in my first post, I didn't plan exactly what I wanted him to do at each stage. I did occasionally run "what if" scenarios in my head ("what if he finishes X and Y this year -- what will we do next?"), but when it came to daily work, I just tried to keep us going and make sure he understood what we'd been doing all along.

 

My daughter is not yet showing any particular aptitude for math. I don't think that means she will never be mathy -- she's just not accelerated at an early age like ds was. (She's also always been more cautious about doing things she isn't already good at. He read fluently at three, she was still sounding out simple phonetic words at nearly six -- but in the year she's been six, she has read all the Ramona books, all of the American Girl books, half the Harry Potter books, Laura books, and a jillion other things on her own, with relish and understanding. They're just different kids with different approaches...) So I try to keep the same philosophy with her: keep her working consistently at a level that's "just a little bit hard". Keep her moving forward, make sure she understands what we've done before... And try to keep it interesting with games and explorations beyond what is done in her workbooks.

 

The philosophy is the same, but what she does each day looks quite different than what he did at her age. If I tried to make *her* do what he was doing at her age, *that* would be inappropriate pushing. But consistently working at a level that's "just a little bit hard" (and sometimes that means not moving forward in a given book -- sometimes it means working sideways for a while, if that same level is still "just a little bit hard) seems to work for both of them.

[HappyGrace]

I really want to avoid the pitfalls.

 

patchfire-a suggestion for you I read on the High School board that I think someone did-they had I believe a 4th grader ready for Pre-Algebra but didn't want to push it, so they did Teaching Textbooks Algebra I and then II, which was a nicer pace, and has less content than typical Alg courses so it's a good way to hit some algebra but not kill them with it. Plus it's self-paced. I guess the TT Alg I and II is not recommended as rigorous enough for High School, but would be perfect in your case. I think if you search, it was recommended to someone by Jann in TX, if I recall correctly.

 

Ds 5 (6 next month) did all of RS A in about 3 wks and it was much too easy. I do want him to do one core math program and supplement that. Dd does CLE and I love it, but it will move too incrementally for him. I'm thinking maybe Horizons. I've already gone through RS B with dd, so I could cherry pick what I like from there. I also like the conceptual things in MEP math, and that's free online (http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm), so I could just do bits of that too because it has some nice algebraic thinking. I have other supplements that he would love like Noble Knights of Knowledge, Penrose, Mathematicians are People Too, and some other Living Math stuff. I've researched and have things lined up like Hands-On Equations and Zaccaro for when we need them.

 

So I'm thinking Horizons, with the "fun stuff" on the side as needed/desired. I'm really glad I already taught these levels of math once because I'm not mathy and had to research a lot to find what would work for my older dd, so I feel more prepared to teach this one! These posts have had good info-thank you!

 

This post has really helped me because it told me my gut was right-to go with depth at each level rather than pushing forward quickly.

[Mandy in TN]

I really want to avoid the pitfalls.

 

This post has really helped me because it told me my gut was right-to go with depth at each level rather than pushing forward quickly.

 

I would never suggest "pushing" a child. Sometimes they demand more and push themselves.

 

Night before last my little ds was demanding an Alg1 book. His 15yo brother has out an Alg2 book and he felt very strongly that he should have the Alg1. I don't know what to call it except a temper tantrum. I told him that he had not mastered the 4 operations with decimals and fractions and therefore would not be able to do Alg1. He was at the point of tears begging for the stupid book, so I pulled it down. I opened it to the middle of the book and read a lesson. He laughed and said I was right, but it took him trying to do a lesson from the middle. I didn't show him the beginning, because I was concerned that he would be able to do enough of it to demand that it be left down.

 

I know he is not ready, but some of it is how to hold him back. This is one of the reasons he is doing Kumon. Then there is another teacher patiently showing him all the math he needs to learn before he can move on to higher math.

 

Mandy

[kalanamak]

I have a math-y boy, but have tried not to accelerate math too much.

:iagree:

 

Kiddo brings math into so many things, I just run with it.

 

Kiddo enjoys Singapore, and at this young age, I am spending more time on his weaknesses and other loves, and being content to simply make mathematical thinking appreciated, noticed, rewarded and promoted.

 

Is this the right way? Who knows, but I am reasonably sure I'm not harming him. I backed off math when I found I was getting too much of a thrill from his leaps. I am suspicious of "cheap thrills", particularly vicarious ones.

[EKS]

I think Saxon, in general, is a poor choice for accelerated math students. The repetition can drive them crazy, and as I recently found with my younger son, it can be mind numbing to the point of making them extremely error prone. Also, all that repetition (for my younger son again, my older son didn't have the repetition, see below) seemed to deemphasize place value (even though *I* was constantly emphasizing it) and seemed to make him respond by rote and when that didn't work he would guess wildly (he would *never* think his way through a problem) and when *that* didn't work he would give up and start sobbing. Since we switched back to Singapore, this has never happened again.

 

Back to my older son's math sequence: In order to adapt Saxon to my older son's needs I had to eliminate problems. He needed to go faster (when we slowed down he got extremely cranky) but because of some LDs he is also *very* slow when it comes to actually working the problems. So he would do 10 problems from each lesson (hand picked to target what he needed to practice) and he did two lessons per day.

 

By the time he was in 7/6 (4th grade) I discovered that he didn't really understand place value. I gave him the MUS placement test and he placed into Beta because for the subtraction problems requiring borrowing, he subtracted backwards. So we started with Beta and went through Zeta that year to remediate the conceptual issues caused by the Saxon approach.

 

Then I figured he was ready for the material in the first half of Jacobs Algebra (5th grade). It is basically prealgebra in the first 6 chapters or so. We went through it really slowly and he got 90+% on the tests but he needed me beside him and he had major issues writing things down. He understood the concepts, had no issues with the abstractness of it, but he was too young to deal with doing the problem sets independently and he was too immature to write out the steps for his work (even when it would obviously benefit him). There is more to being mature enough for algebra than just being ready for abstract concepts. Somewhere in this period he also did the review of arithmetic course from ALEKS.

 

Because of his maturity issues with algebra, we took a break from the Jacobs book and he did about 60 lessons of Saxon 8/7 (beginning of 6th grade). He did *all* the problems. I have to say that I liked the 8/7 book. I think the time he spent on it was valuable. After a brief, disasterous stint with VideoText, we went back to the beginning of Jacobs Algebra, and this time he did the problem sets independently and we went at normal speed. He wrote out his work without complaint and he ended up with a 98% average in the course. Actually, after he passed the halfway mark in the book, the point where it was no longer review, his scores and understanding actually got better and better. It was amazing to watch.

 

What I didn't mention in the above explanation is that I also supplemented on and off with Singapore. He always liked the Singapore better and always did well with it. In fact several times he told me with glee that he loved the challenging word problems book. This should have given me a clue, but apparently I was totally dense.

 

I think that Singapore is the way to go for accelerated math students for several reasons. The workbook format is used throughout the program, which benefits younger students using the more advanced materials. It has more thought provoking problems even in its regular materials and for extra challenge you can use the Intensive Practice and Challenging Word Problems books. The problems in these books are just what gifted math students need. Not only do they need to go faster, but they also should be getting deeper and more challenging work.

 

If I had it to do over again with my older son, I probably would still have started with the Saxon Math 2 book as he was coming out of a bad school situation with unremediated LDs at that time. But once I got the clue that he was actually good at math, I should have switched to Singapore and supplemented with the IP and CWP books.

 

So there is my long winded answer! Yikes!

[kalanamak]

He was at the point of tears begging for the stupid book, so I pulled it down. I opened it to the middle of the book and read a lesson. He laughed and said I was right, but it took him trying to do a lesson from the middle. I didn't show him the beginning, because I was concerned that he would be able to do enough of it to demand that it be left down.

 

Good move!

 

But remember children sometimes have an amazing capacity to be dedicated to a cause. I was plinking along in 52 First Grade Drills on the piano when I heard a Bach Invention. I hummed it for my teacher who told me the name, but that it was too hard for me. I told my mother the name, and, unasked, she got me the book and I labored for months on it, without the aid of any teacher. When I came in and played it for her, she put aside all other books and we spent the next few years learning everything from Bach and Bach alone. I was not a prodigy, but I loved Bach and the teacher had enough sense to realize I would practise and do better with something tough that I loved.

 

I try to do that with math. When kiddo "invented" negative numbers and multiplication, I immediately started using them in every day examples. However, I nixed doing extra math or skipping the games and reinforcements just because I was getting too excited over "what kiddo can take on next". YMMV, of course.

[HappyGrace]

I'm very familiar with advanced/gifted dc-my older dd is one (except in math!) I totally get it that "they" are often the ones pushing the envelope and wanting more, and then you have to give it to them. I just want to make sure that with ds I am giving him what he needs with math. I wanted to start this post because my dd's areas of giftedness are more content areas rather than skill areas like math, so I wondered what others did in a skill area like math to keep moving forward, but make sure there's a firm foundation to build on too. I think my (and others' here) idea of digging deep at each level allows for healthy exploration and advancement, and helps to avoid some of the pitfalls it seems others may have fallen into. I am so grateful for everyone's insight and experience on this-thank you!

[AnnetteB]

I'll just give you the math trail for one of the dc. This boy knew how to divide before he started formal math. We worked through ABeka K through 5 then switched to Saxon 65 and went through Algebra 2 all at his own pace. We also used Key to Fractions and Key to Decimals. He took to chess easily and enjoyed Snap Circuits. He just earned his college degree in Computer Science and did very well in all his math courses. One term he borrowed our Saxon Algebra 2 text to brush up on something. Some of the other children have doubled up on math texts to slow them down a bit and let the concepts sink in, but he didn't need that double-dose. I don't have any regrets about using Saxon or ABeka and continue to use them. Ds, 20, is about to complete Advanced Mathematics on his own time:001_smile:

[nmoira]

We do math about 15-20 minutes a day, compacting where necessary.

 

4/5 -- Right Start B

5 -- Right Start C (quit not quite halfway through), Singapore 2A

She's just turned 7 and nearing the end of 4A

 

Supplements have included Primary Grade Challenge Math, Mindbenders and similar puzzle books, Murderous Maths (they're just around, she reads them at will), and currently Polydron projects. Typically, we use supplements one day per week.

 

We use the Singapore Intensive Practice book instead of workbooks, and CWP. Her pace has slowed simply because there is a greater volume of work at the higher levels. Since we're in no rush, I haven't increased daily math time. Besides, DD is all about science now, so any extra time goes there.

 

After Singapore 6B, I'm considering doing Mathematics 6 (Russian Math) before moving to algebra. Alternately, I might just give her the Life of Fred pre-algebra books and let her work ahead on her own.

[KristenS]

My son is in first grade, and ahead in math. We're just working through Horizons a year ahead. (So he's in the second grade books.)

 

This is working well for him. It's letting him take the time for fine motor skills to catch up. It's 'easy' for him most of the time, so he has fun with it. But there are challenges (he's perfectly capable of doing three digit subtraction with borrowing, but doesn't like to take the time to do more than one problem!) that he's got to master before he can move on.

 

There are things we probably need to drill before he moves up a level ... mastery of multiplication would be good ... but so far I'm liking this choice.

 

I hear a lot of folks go from Horizons to Teaching Textbooks. It looks interesting to me, but someone above posted that it's not very rigorous. Is that true? I know dh will want him to do rigorous math in high school.