Has Anyone Used SmithHand For Penmanship?

[Spy Car]

I just got off the phone with Bruce Smith of SmithHand, what a nice guy!

 

He had so many interesting things to say about learning to write. He made a lot of sense.

 

There isn't much in the way of "examples" on the SmithHand site (which prompted my call) but he's going to mail information to me.

 

I am curious if any of you have used his method with your children, and what your impressions are of SmithHand.

 

Thanks,

Bill

Edited January 30, 2009 by Spy Car

[ladydusk]

Listening here too ... I sent an email. The website is interesting!

[Spy Car]

Listening here too ... I sent an email. The website is interesting!

 

Since we're both interested, I'm responding to your post as opportunity to shamelessly bump the thread :D

 

Surely someone had used SmithHand?

 

Bill

[dorothy]

I have not used it but want to bump you again because:

 

A - I went to the site and thought it might be a good fit for my dd

B - I like your posts

C - I like your avatar

D - I KNOW what it is like to have a post go unnoticed

E - I am hoping someone will give us some info

[abbeyej]

I'm afraid I can't do much beyond give you a bump either. My oldest has used some of the Spencerian workbooks from Mott Media, and I like the idea a lot -- but I would have to actually do some work (blech!) to learn how to teach it truly properly. Ds does have really excellent handwriting compared to the other kids I know... But I can't wholeheartedly recommend the Spencerian books as being user-friendly in terms of learning the theory and proper techniques.

 

So if SmithHand does that better, I'm intrigued. My little one (dd) writes constantly, but her handwriting is pretty poor (by my standards anyway). I'm curious about SmithHand for her...

 

(Now, I've bumped you! Maybe someone who actually knows what they're talking about can respond!)

[Spy Car]

I have not used it but want to bump you again because:

 

A - I went to the site and thought it might be a good fit for my dd

B - I like your posts

C - I like your avatar

D - I KNOW what it is like to have a post go unnoticed

E - I am hoping someone will give us some info

 

Hey, thanks Dorothy :001_smile:

[Melissa B]

Surely someone had used SmithHand?

 

Bill

 

 

And there is the downside of requiring (or strongly requesting) that your products not be resold after use. A pet peeve of mine :) - I think they lose more in the lack of discussion and word of mouth than they do in lost sales.

 

My oldest dd uses the Spencerian books. I plan to use them for all of the children around grade five. I don't know how I feel about kids using the narrow little lines before that. It sounds like he uses the same small line technique. But, I've never seen a sample.

 

 

On a side note - Did he happen to mention why the payments are mailed to Ohio, but sales tax is only paid in Michigan? :tongue_smilie:

[PollyOR]

Okay, another bump. :)

 

I have looked at the website a few times in the past but do not remember having read any "we've used this and here's what we think" reviews. Hopefully someone here has at least seen the books.

 

My girls are using HWT's cursive because that is what I bought ages ago, yet they always revert back to printing. I'm interested in SmithHand in hopes that the girls will actually use their neat handwriting for something other than just handwriting practice. Of all the homeschoolers I've known, handwriting seems to have been their weakest subject.

 

Bill, please keep us up-to-date.

 

TIA

Polly

[Spy Car]

And there is the downside of requiring (or strongly requesting) that your products not be resold after use. A pet peeve of mine :) - I think they lose more in the lack of discussion and word of mouth than they do in lost sales.

 

My oldest dd uses the Spencerian books. I plan to use them for all of the children around grade five. I don't know how I feel about kids using the narrow little lines before that. It sounds like he uses the same small line technique. But, I've never seen a sample.

 

 

On a side note - Did he happen to mention why the payments are mailed to Ohio, but sales tax is only paid in Michigan? :tongue_smilie:

 

I believe this method uses a 1 centimeter line (so a .5 centimeter half-line). Forgive me, I don't know the proper nomenclature for lined paper.

 

Using this small line, and a small and narrow script is a departure from other programs I've seen. The author has his reasons for his method, including the idea that small hands should not be asked to make big figures. That their muscle control is better suited to small and compact figures.

 

Makes a certain amount of sense to me as an "argument", but I don't really know. And it's why I'm hoping for some real-world feed-back.

 

I didn't see anything about not selling the materials, but I didn't notice the thing about Michigan sales tax either (until you pointed it out). I'm glad someone reads carefully :D

 

Bill

[Melissa B]

I believe this method uses a 1 centimeter line (so a .5 centimeter half-line). Forgive me, I don't know the proper nomenclature for lined paper.

 

Using this small line, and a small and narrow script is a departure from other programs I've seen. The author has his reasons for his method, including the idea that small hands should not be asked to make big figures. That their muscle control is better suited to small and compact figures.

 

Makes a certain amount of sense to me as an "argument", but I don't really know. And it's why I'm hoping for some real-world feed-back.

 

I didn't see anything about not selling the materials, but I didn't notice the thing about Michigan sales tax either (until you pointed it out). I'm glad someone reads carefully :D

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

Yes, Spencerian uses a 1 cm. line. It seems very precise for a young child. But, I really don't know. I teach my kids to write using crayons and unlined paper until 2nd grade when we move up to dulled or thick lead pencils. :D

 

 

Here is the link where I read about not reselling. On that same page, there is a link to an interview with Bruce Smith.

 

http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/curricula/reviews/smithhand.php

[SonshineLearner]

Funny, this is another thread that makes me glad I'm trying to teach my son, cursive, first.

I hear that Spencerian is what they use to teach children in school, first. And boy, they had beautiful handwriting!

Carrie:-)

[Spy Car]

Yes, Spencerian uses a 1 cm. line. It seems very precise for a young child. But, I really don't know. I teach my kids to write using crayons and unlined paper until 2nd grade when we move up to dulled or thick lead pencils. :D

 

 

Here is the link where I read about not reselling. On that same page, there is a link to an interview with Bruce Smith.

 

http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/curricula/reviews/smithhand.php

 

I still don't see the part about re-selling, although that's your issue (not mine :D).

 

From our conversation, I know Dr Smith does not believe in rushing children, especially boys. He feels their fine motor skills need developing first. He suggested one of the best ways to aid this development was having a child use a good quality sharp colored pencil (not crayon) to do coloring books with fine detail, especially the Dover Edition coloring books (which have lots of themes to appeal to children with varying interests).

 

Dr Smith (Bruce) believes the small up and down motion children naturally use to color with colored pencil is the building block skill for handwriting.

 

He also advises against the "big" pencils that I, like many parents, purchased for my young son thinking it was best. Instead he really recommends either a Pentel "Sharp" or "Sharplet" mechanical pencil in size 0.9mm with HB hardness lead.

 

I bought a 2 pack of these to try out. I also picked up a 3 pack of Pilot Varsity "disposable" fountain pens that I saw referenced in a "fountain pen" thread here on WTM. These are not something recommended my Dr Smith, they are just really cool, and super-inexpensive (and fun).

 

And it seems like the great pen-hands of the past all learned with fountain pens (or even older ink pens) and not ball-points or gel-points, so i though I'd try them and work on my own depilated penmanship skills.

 

I digress.

 

Bill

[Alicia]

In a departure from my training as an OT I spend only 1 year on printing usally age 4/5 then move on to cursive. I find that my little ones do better with cursive once they can spell. I use the small pencils from Handwriting Without Tears. Small light pencils for small not so strong or coordinated hands. I also use smaller lined paper so they write more and draw less.

In the months before we begin pencil work they get to work on fine and gross motor coordination exercises for the hand including Spirograph, Playdoh, K'nex, Lincoln Logs, painting with paint brushes, geoboards, jigsaw puzzles,hand sewing, ect. Playing outside games like baseball and wheelbarrow races to develop shoulder/elbow strength and endurance is so important but often overlooked. When they are ready to write is when they are ready to do handle the smaller lines. If they need to "draw" on big lines to control the shape of letters then they are not ready yet and we continue with above activities.

It is easier to copy a word they can spell already and just focus on the formation of the word using the continuous line of cursive then the constant starting and stopping of printing. Both Cursive First and McRuffy (not Mcgruffy) start lowercase letters at the base line. Easier and more consistency for a your mind. The more distractable the child, regardless of age, the more mistakes in printing. Interrupting the flow of a word to watch a fly go by, sent a cue when writing in cursive that they dont seem to get when printing.

I'm taking the plunge and teaching my last one Cursive First at 4.5. She is more than willing since "that is the way grandma writes." Anything that grandma does has to be the best in her book.

 

I also use the colored fountain pens. Stick with cheap ones first, otherwise you will cry as much as the child the first time they split a nib. I got the multicolored pack and just let them choose their colors. The boys generally choose one or two colors. The girls have different colors for different purposes. We started out on paper towels making shapes and smiley faces to learn what happens when you push too hard. This is an especially good lesson for boys.

Who knew I had so much to say about penmanship!

 

Alicia in NZ Who has vowed to post more this year and not be such a selfish lurker.

[Melissa B]

Bill,

 

You'll have to post back on how the pencils are working. I just let my dd9 start using a mechanical pencil for math this year. It just seems that it would raise the frustration level of a younger child. The lead breaks so easily. And I can certainly see my kids constantly pushing the lead out and snapping it off. But that could certainly be sheer assumption on my part.

 

That is interesting about the coloring. Some of my children (as well as myself) are left-handed and we color slanting left, opposite the direction that we write words. I wonder if that would matter? The motion would be the same, only backwards.

 

Did he say what age range he thought best for his program? It seems everything I read was vague. Everything you have said makes sense to me, except at an older age than I was first picturing. I would think at least age 8 and up, maybe even 9 or 10.

 

(Fountain pens with quick-drying ink are wonderful things for lefties. They smear much, much less than a ball-point or pencil. But, we never share them. The tips form to one hand, so if more than one person uses them the ink doesn't flow as smoothly.)

 

 

If you buy the program, I would love to hear what you think. And even if you don't, an update on how his methods are working would be great! I am going to have to sit and watch my kids color this week so I can ponder the link between coloring and handwriting. I'm also going to see just how differently they color using crayons and colored pencils. This has simply never occurred to me before. And now it seems like such an obvious link! :)

Edited February 2, 2009 by Melissa B

[helena]

Is it just me or does it look a little tight? I wonder if when the child is learning, it loosens up a bit. I'm starting to wonder why I'm wasting my time teaching average looking cursive, when with a little effort I could expose my girls to a more sophisticated style. Spencerian cursive looks good as well.

[Melissa B]

Alicia,

 

When are your children able to comfortably go from writing words they already know how to spell in cursive to writing words they don't know? I have noticed in the past that when my children cannot spell a word they resort back to printing for just that word - even dd11. When we are going over rough drafts of papers, I can always easily see when she is struggling over the spelling of the word. I'm not sure if it is easier for her to visualize in print or easier for her to write slower so she can think more about it. She doesn't know why she does it. But I am seeing her younger sister do it now as well. I sometimes wonder if this is something I should address or just let it go and assume they will outgrow it.

[Spy Car]

Bill,

 

You'll have to post back on how the pencils are working. I just let my dd9 start using a mechanical pencil for math this year. It just seems that it would raise the frustration level of a younger child. The lead breaks so easily. And I can certainly see my kids constantly pushing the lead out and snapping it off. But that could certainly be sheer assumption on my part.

 

Look at my earlier post for the recommended size and hardness (never mind, I'll save you the trouble 0.9mm and HB hardness). In layman's terms this is a large diameter lead (by mechanical pencil standards) and it is a bit soft. Both factors combine to make a lead that's less liable to "snap".

 

Did he say what age range he thought best for his program? It seems everything I read was vague. Everything you have said makes sense to me, except at an older age than I was first picturing. I would think at least age 8 and up, maybe even 9 or 10.

 

He doesn't seem one to "push". He seems to think it's more skill dependent than age, and that boys tend to be behind (sometimes far behind) girls.

 

I mentioned my son is 4.5. Which he felt could be early for manuscript, but again depending on the child. He does oppose the "stick and ball" method we've been using with him thus far. So if we are join to teach him to write, he prefer we use his method.

 

Cursive, if memory serves, is in the 10 year old range (again child dependent).

 

(Fountain pens with quick-drying ink are wonderful things for lefties. They smear much, much less than a ball-point or pencil. But, we never share them. The tips form to one hand, so if more than one person uses them the ink doesn't flow as smoothly.)

 

If you've never heard of them check out the "Pilot Varsity". They are about $2 a piece. (Yes, two dollars American money). They are not refillable, but I've been to a "Fountain Pen forum" and seen posts where people compared them favorably to very (very) expensive pens.

 

If you buy the program, I would love to hear what you think. And even if you don't, an update on how his methods are working would be great!

 

I will.

 

I am going to have to sit and watch my kids color this week so I can ponder the link between coloring and handwriting. I'm also going to see just how differently they color using crayons and colored pencils. This has simply never occurred to me before. And now it seems like such an obvious link! :)

 

Look to see if, with the colored pencils, they make neat little "up and downs", maybe .5 cm movements? This is the small motion he's aiming for. And a coloring books with lots of fine detail so the children fine tune the motor skills. He also mentioned playing "pick-up sticks". Again fine motor skills.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Is it just me or does it look a little tight? I wonder if when the child is learning, it loosens up a bit. I'm starting to wonder why I'm wasting my time teaching average looking cursive, when with a little effort I could expose my girls to a more sophisticated style. Spencerian cursive looks good as well.

 

It is what I'd call a "condensed" style, but I don't think Dr Smith embraced the term when I used it. I was disappointed when visiting the site to see only a single example, and that it was manuscript only.

 

He is mailing me more samples.

 

It is his opinion that this small and narrow style is something small hands (especially boy's hands) can master. And that big loops set up kids for failure. Writing that way will never get you a fast and fluid hand.

 

His script borrows on some of the foundations of Spencerian handwriting, but is vastly more simplified that "true" Spencerian. I know his method is a reaction against the "Palmer" method of pushes-and-pulls which has influenced most modern penmanship teaching, but to be honest I don't fully understand the intricacies of how these systems differ. But I'm intrigued.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

In a departure from my training as an OT I spend only 1 year on printing usally age 4/5 then move on to cursive. I find that my little ones do better with cursive once they can spell. I use the small pencils from Handwriting Without Tears. Small light pencils for small not so strong or coordinated hands. I also use smaller lined paper so they write more and draw less.

In the months before we begin pencil work they get to work on fine and gross motor coordination exercises for the hand including Spirograph, Playdoh, K'nex, Lincoln Logs, painting with paint brushes, geoboards, jigsaw puzzles,hand sewing, ect. Playing outside games like baseball and wheelbarrow races to develop shoulder/elbow strength and endurance is so important but often overlooked. When they are ready to write is when they are ready to do handle the smaller lines. If they need to "draw" on big lines to control the shape of letters then they are not ready yet and we continue with above activities.

It is easier to copy a word they can spell already and just focus on the formation of the word using the continuous line of cursive then the constant starting and stopping of printing. Both Cursive First and McRuffy (not Mcgruffy) start lowercase letters at the base line. Easier and more consistency for a your mind. The more distractable the child, regardless of age, the more mistakes in printing. Interrupting the flow of a word to watch a fly go by, sent a cue when writing in cursive that they dont seem to get when printing.

I'm taking the plunge and teaching my last one Cursive First at 4.5. She is more than willing since "that is the way grandma writes." Anything that grandma does has to be the best in her book.

 

I also use the colored fountain pens. Stick with cheap ones first, otherwise you will cry as much as the child the first time they split a nib. I got the multicolored pack and just let them choose their colors. The boys generally choose one or two colors. The girls have different colors for different purposes. We started out on paper towels making shapes and smiley faces to learn what happens when you push too hard. This is an especially good lesson for boys.

Who knew I had so much to say about penmanship!

 

Alicia in NZ Who has vowed to post more this year and not be such a selfish lurker.

 

Great post Alicia!

 

Thanks for jumping in :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Alicia]

Melissa I note that they are able to to write with more fluency when they know what they are writing. We choose a moral from Aesop (we do one a week with the books from Royal Fireworks Press- excellent and cheap!) or an idiom of the week from the Core Knowledge Sequence as our model. McRuffy has sentences that coordinate with the spelling list of the week.

 

We choose something that is known already so that the focus during penmanship is on penmanship itself. The sentences/moral/idiom whatever are written a few times during the week, always in cursive. They know what is coming next and what it should look like. I always make sure that I have written out the text for them in the beginning in cursive. We use one piece of paper and each time just write on a new line. I use a fountain pen with colored ink myself and make a dot under the letter or place in their writing that needs work. I then remind them ( every single time!) to look at their last attempt so they dont make the same mistakes. That helps them improve and helps my sanity.

For a cursive test we have written sentences that they have not had written for them in cursive before. This requires much more thinking, not just the coordination of the actual writing.

I am a little hard core with this but once they have learned all of the lower case letters I start to require work done in cursive only or I won't look at it. Start with a fill in the blank subject/workbook like a grammar book or Explode the Code something along those lines where they are only writing one word answers.

If they are to build fluency and speed then they need to use the skill being taught, regardless of what it is. Just like telling time, once you know they have been taught you dont keep reading a clock to them but encourage them to try with your support.

So if they start cursive in 1st grade at the end of 1st grade all of their work is in cursive. I do know that their penmanship is much better then what I have seen from other kids in general and homeschoolers for their age group.

I will have to confess that I spent some formative years in Catholic school and I am an OT so sloppy handwriting makes me nuts, I just dont even want to look at the work. I feel very personally that it reflects on the content of what I teach my children if the presentation is poor. Of course I am no where as hard on a 7 yr old as a 12 year old.

After about 4/5th grade the kids switch over to calligraphy. I let them choose based on interest and cursive style. I have some that have italic, others the more formal Spencerian. They all use offset pens with dipped ink. I am a total waste at this point and just buy the stuff and try not to spill the ink. I have a new glass pen and ink set from Levengers for myself and hope to show some improvement before my last set of kids leave me in the dust, again:tongue_smilie: I will follow this thread but am off to bed now.

Teaching the boys, Lord help me, is a post for another day.

 

Alicia in NZ going to bed as it is 11pm Monday with a 5:30am wake up tomorrow.

[Alicia]

NT

[myfatherslily]

The author has his reasons for his method, including the idea that small hands should not be asked to make big figures. That their muscle control is better suited to small and compact figures.

 

 

This is true for my DD (4.5yo lefty). She does smaller letters and details more neatly than large letters. I had her do Kumon Uppercase Letters but found that it was pretty much useless for actual handwriting skills. The letters were far too big.

 

This whole thread is very interesting! I have some questions, but I'll start a spin-off thread. I know nothing about SmithHand!:)

[Spy Car]

This is true for my DD (4.5yo lefty). She does smaller letters and details more neatly than large letters. I had her do Kumon Uppercase Letters but found that it was pretty much useless for actual handwriting skills. The letters were far too big.

 

This whole thread is very interesting! I have some questions, but I'll start a spin-off thread. I know nothing about SmithHand!:)

 

The argument is that the big letters are really "drawing" rather than "writing".

 

I'm beginning to think no amount of shameless bumping is going to bring a SmithHand user out of the wood-work.

 

Bill (who holds out hope :tongue_smilie:)

[helena]

I found some interesting info, and an interview with Bruce Smith at homeschoolchristian.com. I think I'll buy this for next year, then eventually try Spencerian. I like SmithHands description of being elegant AND practical.

[Matryoshka]

I very nearly went with SmithHand, as I really liked what the site had to say about proper hand position and a true penmanship hand vs. a copy hand, then had a sudden change of heart and went with Getty-Dubay.

 

But I had talked it up enough to a friend that she did go with it. I'm not sure how good a test case her son was, though, as it ended up that he was seeing double and needed vision therapy, which she figured out because his handwriting was atrocious. She did end up switching him over to Getty-Dubay (not at my urging, just because the other stuff was not getting any more legible), but either it was too late or that kid is hopeless (his vision issues have been resolved so that shouldn't be an issue anymore). His handwriting still looks very SmithHand-y - it's very cramped and quite tilted - I'm not sure if my friend ended up followed through with the Getty-Dubay books or not. It might have been too different at that point.

 

Again, not sure what a good test case he is, but it has made it clear to me that the the small, tight, looped script doesn't leave a lot of room for error if a kid has any fine motor or vision issues. You really have to be precise to have it be legible.

[clwcain]

No experience with SmithHand, but I'll keep an ear out.

 

Bill, when you get the samples, would you mind posting your impressions here?

 

Thanks.

[Kareni]

Here's a post from someone who uses (used) SmithHand. Unfortunately, she hasn't posted since September!

 

Perhaps you could send a message.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Spy Car]

No experience with SmithHand, but I'll keep an ear out.

 

Bill, when you get the samples, would you mind posting your impressions here?

 

Thanks.

 

Chris, I'm still awaiting the samples, but I will post my impressions once I receive them. In the mean time (largely inspired by posts you made in another thread) I've been learning more about fountain pens than I ever could have imagined.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

 

ETA: Thanks for the idea Kareni :001_smile:

[Matryoshka]

I've been learning more about fountain pens than I ever could have imagined.

 

I somehow missed the thread on fountain pens, but thought I'd throw in a good word anyway. In Germany all kids only use fountain pens when learning to write. We got some when we were over there and I figured out why - the pens won't work if you don't hold them properly! My dd with the impossible pencil hold finally has something that makes her hold it properly. She still holds her pencil wrong (fountain pen for math isn't working here), but when she uses the pen (most other writing), it's being used correctly. If I'd had one of those from the start, maybe we could've nipped the bad hold in the bud.

 

This may have gotten mentioned in the other thread, but if you have a lefty, you should get a lefty pen - the nib is angled differently.

[HollyBee]

This may have gotten mentioned in the other thread, but if you have a lefty, you should get a lefty pen - the nib is angled differently.

 

Where do you get a lefty pen? I'm thinking of getting some of the Pilot Varsity pens--do they come in a left-handed version?

 

I am finding this all very interesting. My right-handed 8yo ds has a weird grip that I'm trying to correct, and my left-handed 10yo dd has an okay grip that she alternates with a lousy grip depending on what she's writing. Neither one has great handwriting, although the 8yo has beautiful manuscript when he slows down and tries hard. Otherwise it's sloppy.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Holly

[Matryoshka]

Where do you get a lefty pen?

 

Here's one. You can get it in a few different colors.

[Aurelia]

Now I'm interested. :001_smile: I like the smaller lines, Ariel complains the lines are too big on practically all the paper we have, and we have gone down to 2nd grade spacing - I may even have to rewrite the WWE workbook copywork on smaller-lined paper because I think she will find it too big. :glare: Maybe we will give SmithHand a try. I wish they had samples of the manuscript, though.

[SophiaH]

Aurelia,

 

I also had a hard time finding paper an appropriate size. All the pads I found at Walmart (even third grade) had line spacing that was too big, and then it went directly to wide-ruled--too small!

 

I finally found something I love at Staples. Roselle makes a no-nonsense third grade primary tablet that has 1/2" between base line and the top line, with 1/4" descender space. This has been perfect for the size of handwriting that my dd is currently using. She writes in the Getty-Dubay manner, but even though it says "D'Nealian rulings" on the cover, we haven't had any problems. Maybe something like this would fit what you're looking for?

[Aurelia]

Aurelia,

 

I also had a hard time finding paper an appropriate size. All the pads I found at Walmart (even third grade) had line spacing that was too big, and then it went directly to wide-ruled--too small!

 

I finally found something I love at Staples. Roselle makes a no-nonsense third grade primary tablet that has 1/2" between base line and the top line, with 1/4" descender space. This has been perfect for the size of handwriting that my dd is currently using. She writes in the Getty-Dubay manner, but even though it says "D'Nealian rulings" on the cover, we haven't had any problems. Maybe something like this would fit what you're looking for?

 

Ooh, I'll have to look into that. Thanks!

[yslek]

I somehow missed the thread on fountain pens, but thought I'd throw in a good word anyway. In Germany all kids only use fountain pens when learning to write. We got some when we were over there and I figured out why - the pens won't work if you don't hold them properly! My dd with the impossible pencil hold finally has something that makes her hold it properly. She still holds her pencil wrong (fountain pen for math isn't working here), but when she uses the pen (most other writing), it's being used correctly. If I'd had one of those from the start, maybe we could've nipped the bad hold in the bud.

 

I went to school in Germany through grade 4, and did learn to write with a fountain pen. I have mixed feelings about it, though, as I always seemed to get the ink all over myself (including my face :001_huh:) and smear it on my paper. I tried really hard not to, but it happened anyway. Looking back over some of my old schoolwork, there are many comments from my teacher urging me to do my work more neatly. Oh, and we used fountain pens for everything...including math!

Edited March 30, 2009 by yslek
spelling

[HollyBee]

All right, now you guys have me researching.

 

Has anyone seen this: http://www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US.Store.displayStore.36394./griffix

 

It looks interesting. With the 4-step process, I guess an older kid (2nd/3rd grade or so) could jump in with the ink writer or perhaps with the fountain pen itself. I wonder how it would compare to the Pelikano Junior for elementary kids. I can't find any user reviews online--only speculative ones ("this looks great" type stuff). I'm really interested in whether the grip really works to "force" a proper grip. Also, ds grips the pencil VERY tightly--and I suspect he's bearing down pretty hard as well--so I wonder if the fountain pen would help with both those as well.

 

I did run down to Staples and picked up a couple of packs of the Pilot Varsity pens, so we'll see how that goes today.

 

Thanks for listening!

Holly

[HollyBee]

Here's one. You can get it in a few different colors.

 

Matroyshka,

 

Are these the ones you bought in Germany for your kids?

 

Thanks!

Holly

[Matryoshka]

Matroyshka,

Are these the ones you bought in Germany for your kids?

 

 

I think they are, or at least very similar. My two righties have different colors of the "Pelikano Junior" - ours have more fancy patterned lids, but I'd guess they're pretty much the same. '

 

Looking at my lefty's pen, I realize hers is a Faber-Castell, but it's also a beginner's pen.

[prairiegirl40]

I used this program with my son about 8 or 9 years ago. He started out with A Beka, so learned cursive first off. I used Smithhand to teach him printing. He much prefers to print, but his handwriting now looks nothing like Smithhand! We moved on to their cursive for everyday practice and he does have pretty good handwriting for a teenage boy! He found the Smithhand "f" flowed much better when writing. Unfortunately, I never used it for my other children, they used HWOT. I sometime wonder how they would have done with Smithhand.

 

Jen

[yslek]

All right, now you guys have me researching.

 

Has anyone seen this: http://www.pelikan.com/pulse/Pulsar/en_US.Store.displayStore.36394./griffix

 

It looks interesting. With the 4-step process, I guess an older kid (2nd/3rd grade or so) could jump in with the ink writer or perhaps with the fountain pen itself. I wonder how it would compare to the Pelikano Junior for elementary kids. I can't find any user reviews online--only speculative ones ("this looks great" type stuff). I'm really interested in whether the grip really works to "force" a proper grip. Also, ds grips the pencil VERY tightly--and I suspect he's bearing down pretty hard as well--so I wonder if the fountain pen would help with both those as well.

 

I did run down to Staples and picked up a couple of packs of the Pilot Varsity pens, so we'll see how that goes today.

 

Thanks for listening!

Holly

 

Thanks for sharing this site. Any idea on how to actually order these? I'd love to try these with my kidlets. :)

[yslek]

So now I'm also intrigued by this program. I've been searching for reviews and found one here:

 

http://www.homeschoolreviews.com/reviews/curriculum/reviews.aspx?id=189

 

It's positive, but doesn't provide many details. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this.

[Spy Car]

There is a vendor I've seen highly recommended (but haven't used personally) if you want to get some of the more unusual items such as left-handed pens:

 

http://www.jetpens.com/index.php/cPath/214

 

I've also had several fountain pen experts recommend the "Pelikano" model over the "Pelikano Jr" and it comes in a left-handed version. But I've used neither.

 

I picked up my second 3-pack of Pilot Varsity pens the other day, after *I* lost a blue one at a meeting. I was in a mild-panic looking for it (as I've grown to treasure these) and I had to keep reminding myself it is only a $2 pen :D

 

Bill

[yslek]

There is a vendor I've seen highly recommended (but haven't used personally) if you want to get some of the more unusual items such as left-handed pens:

 

http://www.jetpens.com/index.php/cPath/214

 

I've also had several fountain pen experts recommend the "Pelikano" model over the "Pelikano Jr" and it comes in a left-handed version. But I've used neither.

 

I picked up my second 3-pack of Pilot Varsity pens the other day, after *I* lost a blue one at a meeting. I was in a mild-panic looking for it (as I've grown to treasure these) and I had to keep reminding myself it is only a $2 pen :D

 

Bill

 

Thank you. I was hoping to find a vendor who sells the Pelikan Griffix pens. I don't have lefties, so that's not a concern for me personally.

Edited March 31, 2009 by yslek
spelling

[yslek]

Thank you. I was hoping to find a vendor who sells the Pelikan Graffix pens.

 

I found one!

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=swisher&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=407985866&Count2=325126290&ProductID=3882&Target=products.asp&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase

 

Now I have to decide whether I really want to spend that much $$$$. :tongue_smilie:

[HollyBee]

I've also had several fountain pen experts recommend the "Pelikano" model over the "Pelikano Jr" and it comes in a left-handed version. But I've used neither.

 

Bill

 

Well, I ordered two of the Pelikano Jrs (one right-handed, one left-handed) right before you posted this! Oh well, it came down to that or the Griffix. I thought I'd give the Jr a go, since that's apparently what they've been using in Europe for some time. We'll see how those go. Oh, and I ordered from:

 

www.goldspot.com

 

They have the Pelikano, Pelikano Jr, and the Griffix. (Plus many other pens, of course.)

 

I also bought Penny Gardner's Italics, Beautiful Handwriting for Children. Hopefully we'll see some improvement here soon!

 

Holly

[yslek]

Well, I ordered two of the Pelikano Jrs (one right-handed, one left-handed) right before you posted this! Oh well, it came down to that or the Griffix. I thought I'd give the Jr a go, since that's apparently what they've been using in Europe for some time. We'll see how those go. Oh, and I ordered from:

 

www.goldspot.com

 

They have the Pelikano, Pelikano Jr, and the Griffix. (Plus many other pens, of course.)

 

 

Holly

 

Thank you for the link! I'd love to hear how the pens work out for you. :)

[Spy Car]

Well, I ordered two of the Pelikano Jrs (one right-handed, one left-handed) right before you posted this! Oh well, it came down to that or the Griffix. I thought I'd give the Jr a go, since that's apparently what they've been using in Europe for some time. We'll see how those go. Oh, and I ordered from:

 

www.goldspot.com

 

They have the Pelikano, Pelikano Jr, and the Griffix. (Plus many other pens, of course.)

 

I also bought Penny Gardner's Italics, Beautiful Handwriting for Children. Hopefully we'll see some improvement here soon!

 

Holly

 

I'm sure these will be fine. My son just loves his fountain pens, I hope your children do too!

 

Bill

[love2read]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but we have used SmithHand. Just turning the paper so that the left corner of the paper points to the belly button makes a big difference. The slanted lines help a great deal too. If the slope of your child's writing changes from slanted to straight up and down, this program will help.

 

After using it with one of my older children who had sloppy handwriting, I only used the paper with a few others to correct their slant. In general my children do better with traditional penmanship books that have the words to be traced and then copied from directly above the lines.

 

If anyone has specific questions that I might be able to answer, send me a pm so that I'll know to look back at the thread.

[HollyBee]

Bill (Spycar),

 

I never saw if you posted an update about SmithHand. Did you get the samples? What did you decide?

 

Holly

[mom2abcd]

From my files...

 

PattyNJ

I just bought both the manuscript and cursive sets on a whim, and I was very pleased with them. I really do think they should put up some more samples on their site though. I use it with my 1st (manuscript) and 4th (cursive) graders. The program is meant to be taught once, and they provide two pads of practice paper for each set. What I like about the paper, is that it has slanted guidelines on it so as to help children get just the right degree of a slant in their writing. The manuscript is also slanted, which is something that I wanted in preparation for cursive later on. I was never quite a fan of the straight, upright ball and stick letters, so this suited me just fine (although, my children usually start with that style...once they become comfortable with the letter formation, we move on to the slant). The real handwriting practice (i.e. after the few lessons taught with this method are mastered) comes in the copywork and/or other written work you assign.

 

Really, what I like most about this program is that the writing is attractive, although not difficult. There are only a few strokes to master, and then you don't have the hassle of buying new workbooks every year, which never made much sense to me anyway. You learn it once and go with it. The manual you receive is pretty basic in that it gives you an objective and samples, but you're pretty much on your own for what you choose for additional practice. This however isn't a problem, particularly if you already assign copywork, dictation, and written narrations. What I have done is to write some copywork selections directly onto the paper they provide, and have my children copy directly on the lines following the ones I have used.

 

It just made sense for us to go this route. I had used Getty Dubay Italic before this, which I thought was great for print, but my dd wasn't making a smooth transition to the cursive oddly enough. I thought it would be cake, but it wasn't so for her.

--

The developer of SmithHand intended for this program to work well with the natural form of the hand, so as to help with speed and legibility.

--

My older son has horrible handwriting. He did improve with SmithHand, but the results didn't last . I don't think it's the fault of the program though, he just doesn't take the time to write neatly.

 

The style is very basic, which is what I was looking for. There isn't much to the book though. It's very thin. I wish it had more examples and some passages to copy. If you want to try it, look for it used. I don't think it' worth the full price. I wouldn't pay for the tablets either.--

--

This is the best handwriting program I have found. My children no longer complain about handwriting lessons. There are no giant letters to write. I love the fact that the children write normal size letters from the beginning. It's rather inexpensive and it works. I love it and my kids love it.

--

http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/Reviews/Voices/SmithHandInterview.html

 

http://www.homeschoolchristian.com/Reviews/SmithHand.html

 

http://www.smithhand.com/faq.html

 

http://homeschoolreviews.com/reviews/curriculum/reviews.aspx?id=189

 

--

It's a beautiful hand, but in order to get the slant, the child must have the paper tilted to a point where he's actually just writing letters up and down, but the slant of the paper is what gives an even slant to the finished product. In theory, I think it's a logical thing to do, but in reality it was weird writing 'uphill' as opposed to straight across. Also the letters were 'skinny', and 7yo ds had a hard time with it.

 

Hard to describe. Not sure that all made sense, lol. Basically you have your child keep his hand in a natural position (such as HWT?) as if he was going to write with no slant....then as he draws lines or stripes, you keep turning the paper at an angle till his stipes match the slant lines on the Smithhand paper. Then you mark that position on the desk/table with masking tape so that all his papers will stay at that slant. As he writes, his letters are being formed upright (no slant), but because of the severe angle of the paper, his writing will be uniformly slanted. Like I said above, though, as he writes across the line, he isn't writing 'across' the page; he's actually writing 'up' the page because the paper is slanted at such a huge angle. It's almost like you write your letters going in a stairstep fashion up the line....

--

I'm not addressing if she's holding her pencil and pen incorrectly, but if she is just not forming the letters properly and neatly, please consider Smithhand handwriting. It's two books for all of manuscript and cursive and that's it and it can make a WORLD of difference.

I've seen several kids, including my own, just go from ehhhh to wonderful handwriting.

 

--