You can not homeschool if you can not get your children to mind you...

[home4school]

you really can't even be a decent mother.

 

That's all.

[Macrina]

I'm not sure where you were hoping this thread would go...but I secretly think the birth of unschooling came from families that wanted to homeschool but the kids would never cooperate. ;)

 

ETA: I wasn't trying to be snarly- I was trying to make the point that even on bad days our kids can learn :)

Edited January 28, 2009 by Macrina

[springmama]

Are you having a bad day? Me too. I can't homeschool my teenager. She cusses and throws things. I'm in the process of emptying her room while she's at school so she will come home to an empty room, save for he bed and clothing. After that, she's going to clean the basement until it's time for her stepdad to help her with Algebra homework and then she's going to bed.

 

Yes, our morning was that bad. Probably worse than you can imagine. I'm praying your morning was nowhere near as horrible as mine has been so far.

[CookieMonster]

 

Having a bad day, Love?

[CalicoKat]

I'm not sure where you were hoping this thread would go...but I secretly think the birth of unschooling came from families that wanted to homeschool but the kids would never cooperate. ;)

:iagree:

 

I was just commenting to dh the other day about this. Until the oldest child being homeschooled is cooperative, able to work independently, and generally on their way to being a good role model for the youngers homeschooling is next to impossible.

 

For us it was 4th grade, or 9 yrs old that we finally reached this "zone."

 

For the first time ever we're doing more than slogging through the 3r's.

We're getting that done + Science, History, Art, Latin, and Extra Curricular.

 

BUT it's because my oldest can and does do her "homework," the 3r's that didn't get done before we started the "together subjects."

 

SOTW really was a powerful tool during those early years when I didn't have a ton of time and her attention was less than required to concentrate to read independently. The CD's & Activity pages she thought were just for fun and she woudl do that independently.

 

The academic aspect of ur homeschool finally has hit 3rd gear. I'm excited and thrilled. Waiting and wondering about the next speed bump in the teen years.

 

Will your kids listen while you read for 5 minutes? Building their listening muscle by increasing that time sloooowly up to 30 minutes. Read Read Read them historica, nature, science stories. They'll learn way more than you realize.

Edited January 28, 2009 by CalicoKat

[CherylG]

Our oldest was an independent hard worker from the beginning...our second followed him and thank God they are both graduated from our highschool homeschool and from college- UCLA '07 and SBCC nursing school '08. Both are employed in their fields and independent. But, it the 14 year old and the 11 year old that I need to refocus on.

 

I have spent so much time getting the "big kids" through to the next level. Not that I had to do any of their work for them or deal with applications but just seeing where and how they were turning out, was exhausting.

 

It's kind of like I held my breath for 4 years and now that it's over and they are fine, I can breath and have to go back to hsing the "little ones."

 

We used to be unschoolers with the older ones, they didn't like it. The younger ones do like it, though.

God bless!

[Mandy in TN]

you really can't even be a decent mother.

 

That's all.

 

You know I used to feel so smug when I had my first child. He was so easy. I told him to do something and he did it. He was empathetic to other people and his surroundings. He just knew how to act and what to do. I would look at other mothers and wonder why in the world they couldn't get their children under control. Then...

 

I had my second ds. :ohmy: Now I get it.

 

You know children, even very small ones, have minds of their own.

Mandy

[Desert Rat]

When we decided to have children I always said that I wanted little people not babies. Well, I got 'em! And little people have big opinions and big attitudes too.

Hope your day gets better!

[nutmeg]

You can not homeschool if you can not get your children to mind you...you really can't even be a decent mother.

 

This might be from another angle:

 

I've had parents tell me there was no way they could ever homeschool since their kids won't obey them.

 

To my way of thinking, then they have a bigger problem than simply being not able to homeschool.

[Once]

:iagree:

 

 

For us it was 4th grade, or 9 yrs old that we finally reached this "zone."

 

For the first time ever we're doing more than slogging through the 3r's.

We're getting that done + Science, History, Art, Latin, and Extra Curricular.

 

BUT it's because my oldest can and does do her "homework," the 3r's that didn't get done before we started the "together subjects."

 

This has been our experience. Fourth grade is a big step up in acedemics and I think there is a reason for that. Fourth graders seem to be a bit more settled

 

However, if you are talking about an annoyance with other peoples' children, may I suggest that simply because a parent *cannot* control their child enough to teach them does not mean that they are not trying and do not *want* to lead their kids. Some kids come wired with more challenges and these things take time and patience. If this is your child, my prayers are with you. Take heart, the teachers at school would have the same issues, so, hold your head high and do what you know is right for your kids. That is, if you are so inclined.

[Jackie in NE]

:blink:buttons for me.....

 

Yes, I'm having a hard day.

 

My oldest is the typical 1st child. Obedient, dedicated, and here's an extra blessing.... she's smart. She has been so easy and such a joy to teach.

 

Enter "the cluster". My 3 youngers all within 2 1/2 years. I am at my wits end with them. Every day I fantasize about putting one or more of them into school. But then I think, "I can hardly keep them on task here at home.... how will an overworked teacher with 23 kids in the room be able to handle them?" I'm afraid they'll fall through the cracks. I'm also afraid they'll try to lable 1 of them as special needs. This has happened before with this child.

 

My stomach hurts, and the top of my head feels like it's going to come right off if I can't get rid of my current headache.

 

I keep slogging along. Yes, I can get them to mind (with threats or rewards). Yes, I think they are learning "something". But it's such a battle every day. Add to this the tendency of these 3 to have this very extreme love/hate thing going on. They are so mean to each other sometimes. It makes me crazy. Our daily devotions seem to be like water off a duck. Our daily Bible readings seem to give them more ideas on how to be rebellious (just kidding, but it certainly doesn't seem to be helping their behavior).

 

It was all so fun and exciting with the first child. Now it is just plain. hard. work.

 

Usually I don't feel this bad until April. :blink:

 

Thanks for listening.

[home4school]

...may I suggest that simply because a parent *cannot* control their child enough to teach them does not mean that they are not trying and do not *want* to lead their kids. Some kids come wired with more challenges and these things take time and patience. If this is your child, my prayers are with you. Take heart, the teachers at school would have the same issues.

 

Yes, this is my child and I will gladly take the prayers! :)

 

This might be from another angle:

 

I've had parents tell me there was no way they could ever homeschool since their kids won't obey them.

 

To my way of thinking, then they have a bigger problem than simply being not able to homeschool.

 

That's why I said you can't even be a decent mother.:(

 

But then I think, "I can hardly keep them on task here at home.... how will an overworked teacher with 23 kids in the room be able to handle them?" I'm afraid they'll fall through the cracks.

 

Those are my thoughts almost daily.

 

Springmama, you will be in my prayers, and you too, Jackie.

[CherylG]

This might be from another angle:

 

I've had parents tell me there was no way they could ever homeschool since their kids won't obey them.

 

To my way of thinking, then they have a bigger problem than simply being not able to homeschool.

 

:iagree:

[Peek a Boo]

I would suggest letting the homeschooling DROP and just work on the relationship issues. If you are in a state that requires reporting, then i'd translate a whole lotta fun stuff into legalese. In the meantime, I'd do ONLY stuff that builds relationships: hiking, board games, baking together, go watch some sports, field trips to museums, spend extra time tracking down and visiting mentors/ suppliers/ participants of whatever their hobbies are.

 

unworkable relationships carry alot more scars than lagging academics.

 

time for twenty questions so we can turn you over to The Hive :D

 

how old?

B/G?

siblings?

state?

rural area/ city?

involved in a group/ co-op?

scouts? 4-H?

sports? hobbies?

religious/ secular?

what has your homeschool day/ curriculum been looking like so far?

essay: [20 points]:feel free to share in less than 500 words what their/your interests are, and a few specific problems [describe a situation where y'all had a meltdown]

 

{{{mom}}}

[Jenn in Mo]

*hugs*

 

A good mother is one who cares and wants what's best for her family. You obviously care and are aware and are working to fix things. Girl, you're a good mom. Perfect mom? Well, I hope not because then no one will want to play with you anymore. :tongue_smilie:

[whitestavern]

I have a DD8 and a DS6. We took a week "off" this week because we've had difficulties since starting back up after Christmas vacation. We are focusing on manners, taking care of ourselves (hygiene, health/safety, nutrition) and working on one "value", respect. We do activities every day, including lots of role play. The best thing is that we can all really focus on these things (both during school hours and after) since we're not "doing school". Usually my head is too busy to focus on these other types of things in any consistent manner. This week I've been able to give lots of positive feedback and praise to the kids when they're doing things right and have the patience to correct them or have them correct themselves if they do something wrong because it's my only focus. It's been a GREAT week and the kids are really into it. I'm hoping this will "break the cycle" and give us a good starting point next week when we go back to our academics. Good luck to you!

[jamnkats]

:iagree:

 

I was just commenting to dh the other day about this. Until the oldest child being homeschooled is cooperative, able to work independently, and generally on their way to being a good role model for the youngers homeschooling is next to impossible.

 

For us it was 4th grade, or 9 yrs old that we finally reached this "zone."

 

For the first time ever we're doing more than slogging through the 3r's.

We're getting that done + Science, History, Art, Latin, and Extra Curricular.

 

BUT it's because my oldest can and does do her "homework," the 3r's that didn't get done before we started the "together subjects."

 

SOTW really was a powerful tool during those early years when I didn't have a ton of time and her attention was less than required to concentrate to read independently. The CD's & Activity pages she thought were just for fun and she woudl do that independently.

 

The academic aspect of ur homeschool finally has hit 3rd gear. I'm excited and thrilled. Waiting and wondering about the next speed bump in the teen years.

 

Will your kids listen while you read for 5 minutes? Building their listening muscle by increasing that time sloooowly up to 30 minutes. Read Read Read them historica, nature, science stories. They'll learn way more than you realize.

 

You know, I really disagree with this. I have a 14yo who is not even a little bit interested in homeschooling. I am comfortable letting him find his way - we've talked at length many times on academia and I think he'll eventually figure his way out. So he does no academia. He is still learning though. My 12yo is very easy to homeschool. He likes structure and knowing what is happening 'next'. Just that kind of kid. So we do a very structured (for us) lesson plan of Math, Writer's Almanac (poetry ad historical poetry and writers), Dictation, History (Susan's Ancient History), Living History (right now doing hte Epic of Gilgamesh and Mara Daughter of the Nile), Spanish (Spanish for Children), World Culture (right now India), reading assigned by me (Snow Treasure right now), Independent reading (his choice) all daily. Then there is addtional work 1-2 times a week (Art, Sociology, etc.). I do not coerce him in this work.

 

The 9yo needs a bit more encouragement but she is generally happy enough to do Singapore Math and reading (Headsprout) daily but she needs to do this first thing in the morning or she will be lost to play for the day. The 7yo LOVES Math and Headsprout and rarely needs any encouragement but needs to be able to pick the time of day she is going to do her studies or she balks.

[swellmomma]

:grouphug: I hear you. I have more of those days then good ones. Yesterday was a good one for the first time in almost 3 weeks, today was another war zone. I not only fantasize about sending my kids to public school, but to boarding school far far away where they can not be near each other. While the not minding me drives me insane, I could deal with that. It's how mean they are to each other. This morning was a morning of bloodshed, fist fights, I now have 3 children with bumps, bruises, and cuts and all ticked off at each other. The baby managed to get hurt on a foil pie tin, because I went to deal with the group of olders, and I have a splitting headache AGAIN. I have dealt with almost daily head aches for 2 years now due to the stress of these kids.

 

The problem for me though is I have sent them to school, they DID fall through the cracks, this IS absolutely without a doubt the best place for them to be, I jsut don't know how I am going to survive it and get them to graduation. In my case there is other issues at play, their special needs, absentee dad (issues with this still flair up even though it has been 8 years), intolerances to certain foods which trigger issues. And the list goes on. I know that before kids though I swore I would parent a certian way, my kids would act a certain way etc and All I have done since then is eat crow. The only one who minds me very well is the baby, go figure, she does what she is told everytime. The older 2 even as wee little ones never did, and the 5 yr old was the "perfect" child until 1 month before his 4th birthday and since then he has wanted to be jsut like big brother, which is not someone anyone should strive to be like kwim.

 

Okay that got very long, but it sure felt good to get it out. Right now the baby is napping, dd is playing in her room and the boys are watching magic school bus, I am praying that this silence keeps up for at least an hour so I can regain my wits and be ready to face a busy afternoon/evening.

 

The best thing I can suggest is to make time to get away. Honestly, tonight for example I am having coffee with some other homeschoolers from my support group. My folks cancelled their plans to watch all 4 kids because I really really need the break before I lose my mind completely.

 

I am no where near the kind of mother I dreamed of being, I basically go through the motions of getting through each day without having a total breakdown. I think If I had been given the advice that was shared on this thread years ago, I would have saved myself years of stress and heartache. I think at this point half the time I make the situation worse because I get so fed up I do not respond in the calm and cool manner I used to.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm not sure where you were hoping this thread would go...but I secretly think the birth of unschooling came from families that wanted to homeschool but the kids would never cooperate. ;)

 

QUOTE]

 

I heartily disagree. I am an unschooler at heart, but do not have the energy to do it well. My first exposure to homeschooling was from the John Holt side and I started out with a more delight-driven schooling. It was the addition of a 3rd child that forced me to move to a more structured way of doing things - just didn't have the energy to just switch gears whenever they expressed an interest or to go so many places. I have to say that my kids do learn a lot when left to their own devices. I am concerned that our structure (meaning curriculum) has dampened their natural curiosity and desire to learn.

 

I think you are confusing unschooling with unparenting. Most of the people I know who lean toward unschooling do have high standards of behavior. I do know several who practice unparenting.

[lionfamily1999]

So which is more or less decent? Sending them off to not mind someone else for most of the day, or keeping them home to ignore you?

 

Sometimes............ arg........... kids.:glare:

[lovemytea]

BTDT! I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

[home4school]

So which is more or less decent? Sending them off to not mind someone else for most of the day, or keeping them home to ignore you?

 

Sometimes............ arg........... kids.:glare:

 

 

That's the kicker. Every teacher they've ever had (co-op, etc) right up to this day say they are both the most well-mannered, well-behaved, kindest, thoughtful, etc etc!

 

I'm the only one they do this way, I guess bc they know they can. I'm just worn down.

 

And to reply to Peek, they are two ds, ages 10 & 12. The oldest is a headstrong handful who has SOMETHING to say no matter what you tell him or ask him. He has no desire for school. He had rather be jumping off the roof or trying to figure out how much faster, how much higher, etc. They take a gym class once a wk and baseball is about to begin.

 

For school I have (not necessarily that we get it done)

Bible: BSGFAA

Math: Singapore (gets done daily)

Spelling: Apples and Megawords (also gets done daily)

Grammar: Winston (thought the cards would be fun. We do it 2-3x wk)

Writing: Do notebook pages for history and IEW Writing Trails thru History (behind)

History: The free Los Banos American History (we keep getting stuck-have only made it thru the colonies)

Science: Apologia Astronomy (only to Chpt 4)

Logic: Mindbenders (have done it maybe 6x all year)

Latin: LL (didn't pick it up after Christmas. They liked it, just too much printing. I kept dropping the ball on that. Thinking about LfC. I need something open and go)

Spanish: Speedy Spanish (Dropped it after the first month. They hated it and weren't retaining anything)

 

The only consistent things that get done are math and spelling. We are making slow progress with everything else. Our days drag on so we don't ever get to the fun stuff.

 

I wanted to flip our schedules and do everything BUT math and spelling first, so we could actually get to some of those things and they could work on math and spelling in the evenings if needed. But my youngest is always up first and starts his stuff on his own, then when I can manage to get the 12yo up, he wants to get caught up with brother.

 

Spelling is the only subject we have close to being independent and its really not all the time. I wish I had more open and go things. They think if a workbook isn't laying there, there's nothing else to do.

 

My goal when we started was to give them a good Christian education thru reading, playing games, just making learning fun. It has become anything but that. Certainly the Christian part is shot with some of the words they've heard come out of MY mouth lately.:(

 

I look at programs like TOG, WP, MFW, but I can't imagine actually spending that much money bc I know we would never finish it. There are soooo many days that get blown out of the water with goofing off, attitudes, bickering, dawdling, etc. So I try to pull together my own, but if there's no WORKBOOK, they think there's no work.

 

I just don't know. And if any of you were to pull up past threads by me, you would see this has been going on far too long. I don't know why I can't get a handle on this. I love my boys and I really want this to work, but I just don't think it ever will.

 

Thanks to everyone....

[lionfamily1999]

If you're 'behind' move on. You're only behind the schedule you made for yourself. Stop calling yourself behind, you're not behind, you are RIGHT ON SCHEDULE. That should reduce some stress.

 

If it's extra, and it's not working (Spanish), drop it and then move on. Forget about it. It's over. There's a little less stress.

 

Now, they have to have:

English

Math

Science

History

 

Maybe, it's time to go back to the roots. Drop the extras, ALL the extras. Want to play some hoops? Aw jeez, sorry, you were dropped from the team... see, you have to have honor roll... wow, that really stinks...

 

Once the boys have all their subjects back, Latin, Logic, etc., then give them the extras. You might not be p.s., but you CAN use their tricks.

 

:grouphug:

[Macrina]

I'm not sure where you were hoping this thread would go...but I secretly think the birth of unschooling came from families that wanted to homeschool but the kids would never cooperate. ;)

 

QUOTE]

 

I heartily disagree. I am an unschooler at heart, but do not have the energy to do it well. My first exposure to homeschooling was from the John Holt side and I started out with a more delight-driven schooling. It was the addition of a 3rd child that forced me to move to a more structured way of doing things - just didn't have the energy to just switch gears whenever they expressed an interest or to go so many places. I have to say that my kids do learn a lot when left to their own devices. I am concerned that our structure (meaning curriculum) has dampened their natural curiosity and desire to learn.

 

I think you are confusing unschooling with unparenting. Most of the people I know who lean toward unschooling do have high standards of behavior. I do know several who practice unparenting.

 

:001_smile: My unfounded opinion is just of those that I have come across in the majority (and being AP I get my fill.) I have always said that proper unschooling would be harderer then traditional school at home-ing. The unschoolers that I have come across disagree with me :glare: I feel that unschooling is getting a bad rap because people abuse it the name. As I understand the concept originally it has wonderful potential. But slack unschoolers and now the "radical unschoolers" are changing things. They also defend their method to the max as a "lifestyle philosophy" and not an educational method. Anyway- I need to get off my soapbox. I am way to OT.

[Peek a Boo]

That's the kicker. Every teacher they've ever had (co-op, etc) right up to this day say they are both the most well-mannered, well-behaved, kindest, thoughtful, etc etc!

 

I'm the only one they do this way, I guess bc they know they can. I'm just worn down.

 

And to reply to Peek, they are two ds, ages 10 & 12. The oldest ...has no desire for school. He had rather be jumping off the roof or trying to figure out how much faster, how much higher, etc. They take a gym class once a wk and baseball is about to begin.

 

For school I have (not necessarily that we get it done)

 

Math: Singapore (gets done daily)

Spelling: Apples and Megawords (also gets done daily)

Grammar: Winston (thought the cards would be fun. We do it 2-3x wk)

 

History: The free Los Banos American History (we keep getting stuck-have only made it thru the colonies)

Logic: Mindbenders (have done it maybe 6x all year)

Latin: LL (didn't pick it up after Christmas. They liked it, just too much printing. I....

The only consistent things that get done are math and spelling. We are making slow progress with everything else. Our days drag on so we don't ever get to the fun stuff.

 

They think if a workbook isn't laying there, there's nothing else to do.

 

My goal when we started was to give them a good Christian education thru reading, playing games, just making learning fun. It has become anything but that. Certainly the Christian part is shot with some of the words they've heard come out of MY mouth lately.:(

 

.... There are soooo many days that get blown out of the water with goofing off, attitudes, bickering, dawdling, etc.

 

ok, here's the REAL kicker... are you ready?? :D

 

 

If your kids are well-mannered everywhere else,

 

then you HAVE been doing a great job parenting!

 

It just hasn't been easy ;)

 

 

besides agreeing w/ lionfamily, I'll add that my oldest gets lots of compliments from outside family too....

but I've certainly seen attitude at home :glare:.

I keep telling myself that if he's capable of pretending to be well behaved elsewhere, then he's capable of pretending to be well-behaved HERE too. :lol:

 

And ya know what? if you say exactly that --pretend-- and insert a bit of a humorous psycho look, it might sink in a bit before bouncing off. My oldest has responded to overly-dramatic parenting w/ a great tongue-in-cheek approach. It takes a lot of the stress part out [sometimes].

 

 

I instituted a rule about 7 years ago: if you come home after doing X [w/ friends, at class, sports, whatever], and you bring a bad attitude home w/ you, then I will without question or excuses tie the time spent = attitude at home. So if you bring a bad attitude home, you won't get to repeat whatever that activity was. If you bring a good attitude home, we'll see about continuing that activity.

 

and yes-- attendance at outside activities is tied to completion of basic schoolwork. Your oldest is old enough to be able to follow a checklist. Print one out [just the basics] and put it on a clipboard.

 

I would talk to his baseball coach and bring him in on character training issues: let him know upfront that if a bad attitude at home prevails, it will jeopardize the team. He might want risk it and help work w/ ds, or he might want to say --sorry ds, I can't afford to have team mates grounded because they were a jerk to their moms or can't keep up w/ basic schoolwork. See me next season. Bring it up w/ his PE teacher too.

 

would you consider a Scout Troop? if you can find a good one, they can keep him pretty busy w/ stuff and help you work on character issues. It will also give you another place to get support for raising BOYS!

 

For Christian education, Do a quick Bible Reading session each morning: Just sit down together, pick about a 12-verse passage, and have everyone read two verses at a tinme, taking turns. open and close w/ a QUICK prayer, and then move on. focus on reining in your own heart for now: there's a book called Shepherding a Child's Heart that some find helpful. You might want to read thru some online devotionals, or articles like characterjournal.com for your own studying and patience building, and learning how to de-stress.

As you progress, it will spill over. Trickle down faith ;)

 

 

do YOU get a chance to get away at all? on a regular basis? to get time in to do something for YOU?

 

I think you could drop writing, history, and science for now and do Latin and Logic instead. Since they like the Latin, but felt it was too much printing, drop the extra writing that they DIDN't like and maybe just do read alouds for history.

 

 

when you say:

He has no desire for school. He had rather be jumping off the roof or trying to figure out how much faster, how much higher, etc.

 

does that mean that he would NOT do the schoolwork if he was at school? would you still be fighting w/ him to get his homework done? If so, then i absolutely would NOT bother adding the extra stresses of a school w/ the battle you already have getting less schoolwork done-- and they WILL assign a lot of homework [which ends up being busywork for a lot of kids].

 

and tell us more about how he'd "rather be jumping off the roof or trying to figure out how much faster, how much higher, etc" --as in, seriously? he likes to leap from high places? that sounds like a Boy, and I would work it into schooling in a heartbeat!! maybe not from the roof, but having him make experiment w/ making paratroopers from various types of materials/ sizes and measuring which ones fall fastest/ most accurately. can you give some more specific examples of those things he likes to do? would getting a book like "the art of the catapult" be something he'd like? trying to make catapults and slipping in a bit of history along the way? They don't have to know they did anything educational --as long as YOU know, that's all that matters! They can continue thinking they are just doing fun stuff...heh heh heh....

 

You didn't say anything about his dad...? is this where we assume that hasn't been a positive or helpful rolemodel in this issue?

 

ok, now that I left you w/ more questions, here's a "good luck" for tomorrow :D

[Lovedtodeath]

Child with Behavioral issues? I really encourage you to check this out. Pamela has given me some great advice.

 

Also look at Joanne's GOYB parenting website and my social group. DD has gotten so much better.