Christians, new earth and Sonlight

[Soph the vet]

I attend the state homeschool conference with a filter on my brain.:D And I am a YE creationist but I refuse to wear a denim jumper and white tennis shoes....at least not together:lol:!!

Seriously, does this need to be an issue? I don't use SL but I read a lot of the same books and have many friends, YE, OE, etc. who use SL without a problem.

This is just not a "hill to die on" IMO.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

I think their guidelines are a little discriminatory. I understand if they denied someone like Goddess Moon Circles Academy from attending, but this is SONlight. And their reasoning is on a very minuet point. It's not like they are claiming paganism and wanting to attend the conference.

 

 

Hey Hey Hey!...There is nothing wrong with Goddess Moon Circles Academy ....we just didn't use Goddess Moom Circles Academy because .....well ....they spent way to much time with religion.... We used Sonlight because it was far more adapable to mainstream paganism......then again ...thinking slowly..... maybe that's the original problem....:ohmy:

 

(take this post with all the snarky, cheeky, grinning fun it was meant to have) Anne

[Ellie]

They were blacklisted because they stirred up trouble. They decided that it was wrong for there to be Christian groups which only allowed Christians, that a statewide association shouldn't be Christian (he said this at a Christian statewide association convention), and wrote "Homeschool Burnout," in which he blasted The Teaching Home, Gregg Harris, Mary Pride, and others--not by name, but anyone who had been around hsing long enough at that time recognized his descriptions of how hsers burned themselves out by following TTH et al. There's more, but (1) I don't remember all the details any more:glare: (2) I no longer have some of the documentation I used to have, and (3) it no longer matters. But at any rate, he was not blacklisted over curriculum.

 

The person that was sharing with me what happened was very involved in CA state homeschool politics at the time had a totally different perspective, though the parties you mentioned were the ones that I understood to be invovled. But it does bring up an interesting point- how invovled and how controlling "should" we be, given clear convictions. Back when Gentle Spriit magazine was folding there were a lot of emails and phone calls flying around (we recieved one from CA when we lived in OH) and several of the also above mentioned people lost businesses and paid lots of money in lawsuits because of controlling behavior that amounted to what the courts saw as slander. It's a fine line.

I, too, was very involved with CA state homeschool politics at that time. I was at the CHEA Convention when Dr. Moore, who was the keynote speaker, made that comment. I also had copies of letters that had gone back and forth between Dr. Moore, Sue Welch, and Dr. Moore's publisher regarding his book. I know that there was a state leader conference shortly thereafter where a resolution was drafted...can't remember the exact verbage, but the gist of it was that Dr. Moore shouldn't be allowed to spread his opinions around (he wasn't named, but it was clear that he was the target). The CA state leaders refused to sign it, and were, in fact, surprised that other state leaders thought they (CA) should have told the others what Dr. Moore had said; CA figured it was their convention and didn't need to talk to anyone about it as Dr. Moore had the right to his opinion.

 

Sue Welch and the others were sued by Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff for violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. She won.

[juls]

I was reading the discussion about Sonlight being banned from the Christian Home Educators of Colorado because it isn't strict enough in its young earth teaching. Specifically because it carries Usborne books. That was previously discussed here.

 

But if you continue to follow John Holzmann's blog this week, you see he is reviewing two books, Origins (Haarsma) and Beyond the Firmament (Glover), both written by evangelicals who have taken a hard look at science and the Bible.

 

I have read both of these books and others on the subject and they have really opened my mind up to the possibility that I have been misunderstanding scripture and its relationship to science. As a Christian I am looking to teach my children sound doctrine and sound science. After a summer of reading through the arguments, I am drawn to now accepting the idea of Evolutionary Creationism- a position I never would have dreamed of a few years back.

 

Holzmann seems to be moving in a similar direction as you read through his blog posts this week. But as the co-owner of Sonlight, I have to wonder if how his company would be received by the Christian homeschooling community if it actually carried books (again written by evangelicals) that countered young earth creationism? If his company took a hit for carrying Usborne books, would it be inviting trouble by carrying books by Christian authors who consider the alternatives to the young earth position? But on the other hand, shouldn't Christian companies account for diversity in Christian views?

 

Thoughts?

[Twinmom]

I don't personally think I know enough about the Sonlight story to get up in arms about their specific circumstances. However, I do think it is wrong and actually foolhardy to ban other viewpoints on creationism than YE. I'm a YE creationist myself, yet I teach my 5, 7 and 9 year olds that there are other points of view. At their level, we debate and discuss the points of each and I then I tell them why I believe that YE is the way to go. I also tell them that, though I'm convinced myself about YE, there are thinking, sincere Christians who believe creation happened another way. Isn't that what education is supposed to be about? Personally, I think we should teach our children to defend their position through understanding WHY they believe what they believe...and that involves understanding the opposing points of view. Oh, and shouldn't educated Christian people be able to discuss and disagree without challenging each other's basic faith? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

As someone else said, YE is not a hill to die on. There are far more important hills to choose, more critical things to understand (can we talk Christ's divinity or the path to salvation here? ;)) than whether God took a literal 6 days or more to create this world. Isn't it more important to discuss the fact that He came to save it?

[Harriet Vane]

Just posted this response on another thread:

 

Christians get into a world of hurt and trouble when they start defining non-moral issues as moral issues.

 

Moral issues are defined clearly in the Bible. You know . . . murder, lying, not worshiping God.

 

The Bible says God created everything by the words of his mouth. Beyond that it's not real specific, and we are left to sort through the evidence at hand to learn about God and his ways. If belief in a young earth was a moral issue, God would have defined it that way in the Bible as He did so many other things.

 

As such, I think it is totally inappropriate for an organization to elevate this issue to the level that it has. Yes, the debate has implications for our understanding of God, but NO, it's not a moral issue. There is no explicit directive from God in the Bible about this topic. CHEC is way out of line.

[Peek a Boo]

Just posted this response on another thread:

 

Christians get into a world of hurt and trouble when they start defining non-moral issues as moral issues.

 

Moral issues are defined clearly in the Bible. You know . . . murder, lying, not worshiping God.

 

The Bible says God created everything by the words of his mouth. Beyond that it's not real specific, and we are left to sort through the evidence at hand to learn about God and his ways. If belief in a young earth was a moral issue, God would have defined it that way in the Bible as He did so many other things.

 

As such, I think it is totally inappropriate for an organization to elevate this issue to the level that it has. Yes, the debate has implications for our understanding of God, but NO, it's not a moral issue. There is no explicit directive from God in the Bible about this topic. CHEC is way out of line.

 

 

i tend to agree with you, but some christians look at it AS a moral issue: they believe it is a moral issue in believing literally what scripture says, and anything other than believing literally is opening yourself up to not believing God. again,not that i agree w/ their interpretation of what it takes to fully believe God, but there ya go. Same w/ extreme forms of 7th day worship, baptism, communion, long hair, skirts-only, facial hair, etc,etc,etc: it gets boiled down to you either believe what God says or you don't. and for them, i recommend they take two of these :chillpill: :chillpill: and i'll see them .....later ;)

[Lovedtodeath]

Dagnabbit, Parrothead, I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you. I don't super-check our stuff for theology points. I pick what I think will be best and we discuss differing points as they come up. I've had at least as many differing points with secular books as with Christian. Great opportunities for discussion!

 

We don't avoid evolution like the plague. We discuss it. It's out there, let's talk about it. Maybe laugh a little, too.

 

But I find that 'secular' doesn't not mean absent from sharing some form of belief. Everyone has an opinion and it's rare to find even a secular book that doesn't let a little that opinion shine through.

:iagree:

 

i tend to agree with you, but some christians look at it AS a moral issue: they believe it is a moral issue in believing literally what scripture says, and anything other than believing literally is opening yourself up to not believing God. again,not that i agree w/ their interpretation of what it takes to fully believe God, but there ya go. Same w/ extreme forms of 7th day worship, baptism, communion, long hair, skirts-only, facial hair, etc,etc,etc: it gets boiled down to you either believe what God says or you don't. and for them, i recommend they take two of these :chillpill: :chillpill: and i'll see them .....later ;)

The Bible uses so many terms figuratively. It uses the term "day" to mean the lifespan of kings and other men for example. It talks about great beasts with ten horns and angels that put marks on foreheads. If everything is literal then what do they think about this?

[chaik76]

 

I've used Sonlight, including their boards, for 8+ years and I wouldn't say the same. SL users really do run the gamut and it's not my impression that the majority are "young earth" believers.

I'm on the SL forums. Now, I don't know about the overall users, but of the members on the forums, the majority are young earth...as far as the polls and the numerous discussions on it are concerned (I'm not, though).

[dawn of ns]

i tend to agree with you, but some christians look at it AS a moral issue: they believe it is a moral issue in believing literally what scripture says, and anything other than believing literally is opening yourself up to not believing God. again,not that i agree w/ their interpretation of what it takes to fully believe God, but there ya go. Same w/ extreme forms of 7th day worship, baptism, communion, long hair, skirts-only, facial hair, etc,etc,etc: it gets boiled down to you either believe what God says or you don't. and for them, i recommend they take two of these :chillpill: :chillpill: and i'll see them .....later ;)

 

Beyond that, I really think it's a political issue in some churches. It's not the creationism that matters so much as following the leadership on issues like that. They don't ban talk of anything other then YE creationism because the Bible says so but more because they're concentrating their following to those most likely to follow without question. Creationism is just a convienient path to take to get to that goal because there's a lot of debate over it in religious circles.

[Peek a Boo]

The Bible uses so many terms figuratively. It uses the term "day" to mean the lifespan of kings and other men for example. It talks about great beasts with ten horns and angels that put marks on foreheads. If everything is literal then what do they think about this?

 

i know, i know..... but everyone tends to interpret different things as literal/figurative: rod. sword. day. baptism. Christ Himself. makes for interesting theological discussions ;)

[razorbackmama]

Honestly I think this has less to do with youth earth vs. old earth (though that is a part of it) and more to do with any company who doesn't subscribe to the particular beliefs of CHEC, which are increasingly legalistic. Last year the speakers and vendor hall were CHOCK FULL of Vision Forum folks, which is FINE, if you actually want to go to a homeschool conference to hear that stuff. But for people like me....:thumbdown:Last year and this it was Sonlight...who will be next and why?:banghead:

 

I'm torn. I don't want to support CHEC in any form or fashion (not specifically because of Sonlight, but it is the icing on the cake), but Diana Waring, Sally Clarkson, and Little Bear Wheeler are going to be there, and I always love listening to them.:(

[Peek a Boo]

I don't want to support CHEC in any form or fashion (not specifically because of Sonlight, but it is the icing on the cake), but Diana Waring, Sally Clarkson, and Little Bear Wheeler are going to be there, and I always love listening to them.:(

 

let those specific people know exactly what you think and why.

try to get others to do the same.

[razorbackmama]

let those specific people know exactly what you think and why.

try to get others to do the same.

Yes, I was thinking about doing this (in all my spare time...I have a midterm due this week and my hubby is out of town :ack2: ). What would you recommend saying? "I'm not going to attend and here is why, no matter how much I love you?" (Or something similar LOL.)

 

:confused:

[Peek a Boo]

Yes, I was thinking about doing this (in all my spare time...I have a midterm due this week and my hubby is out of town :ack2: ). What would you recommend saying? "I'm not going to attend and here is why, no matter how much I love you?" (Or something similar LOL.)

 

:confused:

 

ah yes... spare time.... lol!

 

and yeah... that's EXACTLY what I'd say. include a link to this thread --i bet you'd find other threads too.

 

good luck ;)