Autism or something

[SandraDumas]

...advice...

 

I have a friend. We'll call her Mom. We'll call her dd Suzie.

 

Suzie did not speak until she was 4.5 old. She then only began to speak. Oddly, she began reading almost the same time she began speaking. Her mom had been doing phonics with her using ETC.

 

Between the ages of 2 and 4 several people had conversations with Mom. They explained to her the idea of autism or other language delay situations. Mom did nothing. Meanwhile we also note that Suzie literally spent the first years of her life watching more than 6 hours of movies per day, with little interpersonal interaction. Mom was a work at home mom with a very demanding job and would lock the door while she was on a call, and Suzie basically wandered around the very baby-proofed house and watched movies. Their movie collection was astounding. In addition to all the TV children's programs, Suzie owned just about every Dora, Disney, Blue Clues, ...

 

Now I knnow this is not hearsay because Mom admitted all of this to us. When she stopped working and "came home" she confessed all of this in great detail. Also we have a friend that lives nearby and would often stop over to find Mom working in the room, and Suzie on her own watching TV. Any hour of the day, every day any time of the week the TV was never ever off when she stopped over.

 

Finally at age four they enrolled Suzie in a public school language delay class. Suzie still was not speaking well at all and making little eye contact and no social or play skills with other kids.

 

She did well in the class- well enough almost to mainstream her which is what the teacher wanted. But MOm chose to homeschool and the rest of this story is since then, 3 years.

 

Now suzie is 7. Her mom is convinced she's HIGHLY gifted. So she took her to a public school CHild Find gifted testing thing, and the guy came out and said, that not only is Suzie not gifted, but she's socially slow and there's something very wrong.

 

Mom said that Suzie must have clammed up and paid for her own test. This lady says that Suzie's IQ is in the 140 range!!!

 

Here's my problem. Suzie is not right. She doesn't get social cues, and doesn't make up her own strings of language. If you ask her, how was the cabin? She will parrot back things her mom just said ten minutes ago.

 

If you ask, what are your favorite shoes, She will say, "We got a great deal on shoes at payless!" (because she heard her Mom say that at some point)

 

She speaks well enough to get her point across when she wants something. And, she is able to take charge of her younger siblings (who are pretty normal)...

 

They are planning on putting Suzie in public school this year, and getting her into the gifted program. Aside from my concern about Suzie's salvation and my belief that Christian parents should try to keep young children in a Christian situation, I am concerned. I fear Suzie is going to be totally out of place with the other kids.

 

Would you finally sit down and say something? Or would you think, well obviously they didn't want to hear it from the first guy that tested her, they're not going to hear it from me either. I don't even have a pHD in children's psychology like he did!

 

??

[Chris in VA]

Personally, I think public school could be the vehicle God uses to save this child from neglect.

[Beth in Central TX]

I wouldn't say anything to "Mom" unless she specifically asked for my advice about her situation. She's already gotten the opinion she wanted, which helped her make the decision she wanted to make.

 

I think once Suzie gets into a ps environment, her problems will become more apparent. Mom will probably go into denial again, and more than likely, move Suzie to a different school or private school, if that's an option.

 

I don't think it will take a person with a PhD to convince her. Until Mom "sees" what's really going on and actually hears & accepts the truth, there's not much you can do except be there for her as a friend and give guidance when asked. Your best course of action right now is prayer.

 

What about Mom's husband? What does he say in all of this? Could your husband talk with him to find out his views?

[Cindyg]

It is entirely possible to be both autistic and gifted. Haven't you seen Rainman? Totally autistic and not able to function in society, but totally brilliant.

 

I can't say this is what's going on with this girl, of course; but it's possible.

 

I think you're right to be concerned, but what are you going to do? You don't want to convince the mom her child is autistic. When she goes to school, it's likely that someone will force the parents to deal with this in some way. Possibly not. Kids do fall through the cracks. Some schools are better than others at addressing problems. Hopefully they won't assume she's like this because she was homeschooled. :(

 

While watching TV all day long alone for your entire childhood is NOT GOOD, it can't cause autism either; so comfort your mind with that. If she's just behind because of poor parenting, she can probably come back around.

 

It's a sad situation all the way around. :(

[chiguirre]

IMHO, there's not much you can say to Mom. If Suzie is on the spectrum (and she may well be) ps is the best place for her unless her parents can access and afford private therapy. Gifted and on the spectrum is not as uncommon as you'd think. There are even non-verbal autistics who have IQs of 140 and up. They seem completely incapacitated until they start typing.

 

A gifted program combined with social skills help and, hopefully, a compassionate teacher could be this girl's key to a bright future.

 

Finally, as the mom of 2 autistic kids, I'd ask you to cut this Mom some slack. If her other kids are "normal" she's probably a reasonably competent parent. It's not easy having a child that's just different, and the hardest part of it is having other parents think you're a terrible parent. Those "looks" are probably the worst part of having an autistic child, worse than the tantrums, the destructiveness and the worry about their future.

[SandraDumas]

in fact she's going in the completely opposite direction. She takes even the 2 year old to private ballet lessons, all 3 are taking private ballet lessons and the Suzie in question is taking private ballet, group piano, sports, and also they are doing lots of reading and trying to keep up with some basic homeschool.

 

I think you ladies have really helped me continue to see that I just need to be there for and love my friend and her dds. I wish she weren't in denial, but the public schools, come to think of it, will probably notice the problems and address them. Hopefully the Mom won't move her to a different school and continue in denial.

 

As far as being autistic and gifted, it's hard to tell unless you see a specific thing with these kids, or spend a lot of time with them. She definitely read far above her grade level when she was younger, now she's about one or two grades ahead which is not shocking to me, or particularly stand out. She is 7.5 and she can add three numbers in her head. Her mom thinks that's amazing but I don't really know becuase I don't remember being 7 very well and my son isn't 7 yet. ...so you know what I mean? I'm really not saying she's not gifted, and I've seen a few things that made me think she might be.

 

I just hope someone addresses her communication issues, because it's becoming sadly apparent. Even younger kids at church sometimes have a hard time playing with her.

 

I really love this little girl. She's cool in a lot of ways. I will continue to pray hard.

[Jennefer@SSA]

I would sit the mom down and lovingly talk to her. I would be prepared for her to be angry with me and still in denial but that doesn't change the fact that we are to "speak the truth in love". I think too often we shy away from saying the hard thing because we fear others' reactions. You cannot control your friend's feelings or her reaction to what you say but you can speak love, grace, wisdom and truth into this situation. Who knows she may be more willing to listen to you than the professional. You know her child and have a history there. You love her child. That man only spent 1 hour with her.

 

Ask yourself, if the shoe were on the other foot would you want someone you love to sit you down and talk to you? I know without a doubt, I would. I would hate the what my friend had to say - it's heartbreaking to realize something is wrong with your child (I know this from personal experience. My own son has severe ADHD and mild autism.) but if it came from a heart of love and true concern I would at least listen.

 

That's my .02. I realize that what I just typed is going to be unpopular with many but I stand by it. I was a public school teacher for 7 years. I have a degree in Special Education and I myself am raising a special needs child. That doesn't make my an expert by any account but it does give me a little different slant (at least in my own warped mind. Lol!).

 

Blessings,

[mcconnellboys]

Well, it sounds like maybe she does have Aspberger's and maybe auditory processing problems. The school will pick up on that and mom will have to get help for her at some point, I would hope..... No, I don't really think you can help out here, especially if she's already dismissed a single contact with a professional. I am hopeful that once professionals are dealing with Suzie every day, then perhaps mom will be more willing to listen to what they have to say.... Mom may be Aspberger's, too, you know......

 

Regena

[chiguirre]

I think we didn't pick up/address that this girl has already been in a public school special needs preschool. She probably already has a diagnosis that the parents haven't chosen to share with their friends. Even if she only has a language delay label at this point, the public school should be aware of her special needs and the possibility of an ASD.

[Guest Lorna]

I have a close friend whose child is autistic and very gifted in maths, art and being generally wonderful. I don't know this child but I would be wary of presuming Suzie is autistic. I know my friend's daughter is a lot of work and she certainly couldn't get away with putting her in front of the tv all day (although she loves films and can quote her favourites word for word).

Perhaps her speech delay has more to do with all the tv she watched. I know this has been common in several children I know who watch a great deal of television (and they often grow out of it as they get older).

It is very difficult to know about a child's needs from outside. however. I know many people criticised my friend for any unusual behaviour her autistic child displayed when she was younger (including psychologists and the school). I also know her so well, I was one of the few who knew how amazing my friend was with her daughter. She is adored, appreciated and treated as an individual and not just a diagnosis. I have come to the conclusion that nearly always the mother knows best and one shouldn't interfere or make assumptions.

[cbollin]

I have a kid with the autism label. Maybe you could get your friend of copy of the Heads Up Now catalog and share it with her. Or buy her a copy of the workshop that company has called When Socialization IS an issue. They carry several books that are about homeschooling with these kinds of things. It might be a resource she doesn't know exist.

 

I know I was in an odd position a few years ago in co-op. I already knew my kid's diagnosis and easily recognized Asperger's in another child in the co-op. I approached the mom. At first she was a little defensive and thought I was just like the others who was trying to tell her something was wrong with her kid and blah blah blah.... But I handed her a catalog and said May I help you find some resources?

 

-crystal

[8filltheheart]

I agree with you. If she has been through a sn program and has been evaluated by a psy with IQ testing, the parents have more info than they are sharing.

 

I have a child that is obviously not "normal." The older he gets (he is now a teenager), the more obvious the behavior becomes. I only discuss his behavior with our very closest friends (2 families) and on the internet where no one knows him. Quite honestly, if someone tried to approach me about him, I would very politely dismiss them or very briefly discuss the testing he has had done.

 

She is with the child all the time, she has other children, she is homeschooling (??) the other children, and has made the decision to send this child to school. I would suspect the child's issues are behind the enrollment. Whether she cares to share "labels" with others or divulge all pertinent info is a very personal decision. THis is her baby. She may simply not want others labelling her dd as well. (especially if it is a new diagnosis. It is a painful process to accept that your child has special needs.)

 

As far as on the spectrum and highly intelligent, yes, it is not uncommon. My ds didn't talk until 3, didn't even know his letters or write his name until 6. By the end of 1st grade, he was reading Charlotte's Web and by the end of 2nd read the Hobbitt in just a few hours. Now that he is in hormonal rages, he appears to have the mental capacity of a 2 yr old! No matter what the issues, you just need to love them for who they are. Perhaps that is what she wants from her friends....to love and accept them for all for who/what they are and not worry about things that those outside the family have no real role in controlling.

[RebeccaC]

It is quite possible that this mom knows her dd is on the spectrum. She paid for private IQ testing and you can bet they talked with her about spectrum issues. The example you have given of her language is called delayed echolia which is an autism trait.

 

It may be that this mom is not in denial but just does not want to discuss it with you. She maybe hoping that her dd pulls out of most of her autistic behavior around 9 and does not want her dd labeled by well meaning friends. I know kids who were mute at 4 who at age 15 you would not know they had been on the spectrum and I know kids who were mute at 4 who are still low functioning at 15.

 

I know kids with nonverbal IQs from the 135 up who are on the spectrum. I know kids on the spectrum with verbal IQs of 135 and with nonverbal IQ above that, my niece is one such kid. I know kids with normal IQs on the spectrum. Some times the kids with high IQs are able to develop compensation skills and blend in quite well when they are older. This might be one of the hopes this mom clings too. Some moms of kids on the spectrum should not hs for many reasons and if there is conflict between mother and child the child well do better in ps.

 

My oldest son was low functioning at age 4 and mute but due to medical treatment is now off the spectrum. At 15 he is a patrol leader in his very large BSA troop and Chaplain's assistant. His troop has no idea that he was ever on the spectrum. He attends two youth groups and one has no idea that he was ever on the spectrum and he has plenty of neighborhood friends who call here every day. We were lucky in that our son had something called Landau-Kleffner variant that produced autism like behavior, brain deafness and delayed echolia and he responded very well to aggressive medical treatment. However at age 4 and 5 it was obvious that he was on the spectrum.

 

We had all kinds of well meaning friends with no experience with autism or LKS give all kinds of advice and most of it was not welcome. Why because unless you walk where I walk you have no idea. We had family members who made comments when our ds was 2.5 that he was off because we did not play with him. I cure them of that by leaving him with them for an afternoon and letting them find out that they could try and play all day but it made no difference. Right now he is the coolest kid on the block due to his Lego creations and his nonverbal IQ at age 6 was in the precocious range but to the average laymen he did not look precocious.

 

In the summer I have an average of 6 neighborhood boys here, and I did not invite any of them, playing ball, game cube, Legos, ect... with both my sons. So just maybe she is holding on to hope that her dd will be among the few that pull out and as adults are maybe a bit odd but do fine or among those who are just fine as adults. No matter what it is denial or hope or just not wanting friends to label it is her choice. Medical history is a private matter and that privacy should be respected. Educational choices are also a private matter and again that privacy should be respected. If you value your friendship with her I would just love her for who she is and not judge her very difficult choices.

[Tammyla]

I agree with Momof7.

 

Unless she asks for your help, don't bud in. You just don't know. I'm sure you mean well, but it could potentially hurt deeply. If and when she asks, then you help. Until then, just be her friend.

 

There have been many times in my life, I've thought I knew better or had the whole picture only to later see the light. Wanting to help isn't wrong, but it isn't always helpful. And there are many ways to help her out by being a loving supportive friend.

[Jennefer@SSA]

that this mom is aware that something is going on with her dd and that she is possibly choosing to keep it to herself. I may be reading it differently but it seems from the original post that mom is in fact unaware completely of any problem other than a speech delay. She does not seem to be a particularly private person if she was willing to share at length with the original poster about those first few years of this child's life - very private information. That or the op is a very close friend. Either way, it seems that Sandra would know if this mom was aware of her child's issues.

 

If she is in fact aware and choosing not to discuss then I am great with that, but on the other hand, if the original poster is a close friend and believes the mom is oblivious then I still think she should say something. I am not at all suggesting she sit mom down and tell her that her dd is autistic but just very gently share a few simple observations - lack of eye contact, repeating phrases....Let mom make her own decision from there. She will either inquire more or shut down. If she shuts down or changes the subject that would be the end of it for me. I would not push. But who knows maybe it will open her eyes to something she has seen but just hasn't wanted to admit.

 

I have btdt big time with others butting in who do not know my child, our family or our situation. They think they know the answer to our problems and they try and tell me how to fix my child - allergies, better parenting, this new miracle vitamin, more discipline... Those people I immediately dismiss and don't think another thing (or at least try not to!).

 

On the other hand, if a friend whom I love and loves my kid talks to me with that's another story. We all need someone to watch our back. We all have blind spots and I am so very thankful for friends in my life who help me with mine.

 

The earlier that intervention is sought and obtained the better off the child will be if in fact there is a problem. I would value the long-term well being of the child over the short-term feelings of the mom.

 

I realize that I am so far in the minority here and I honestly am a little nervous about putting this out there. That being said, I still believe that saying something with care and very gently to a good friend can show great love. Not the opposite.

 

Blessings

[RebeccaC]

The only person who can give and IQ test is a licensed psychologist or a psychiatrist and it is the same person who can give a dx of autism. They look for all the things you listed, lack of eye contact, repeating phrases.... when making such a dx and when administering an IQ test. Do you really think that a trained psychologist or psychiatrist would miss those things? Especially with the epidemic of autism that is taking place in this country? First clue would have been the scores on the verbal portions of the IQ test. IQ tests are given in a one on one setting eye contact is always noted as well as any stims, obsessive compulsive behavior, or attending problems the child might have. It is standard procedure. At the age this child is they are not pen and paper tests either. There is a ton of interaction going on between the tester and the child.

 

If the mom had not done any private testing I think you are on to something but with private testing having been done it is a well meaning friend second guessing the assessment of a trained professional who knows quite a bit more about autism than anyone posting with the exception of a parent who has lived through it. I know this sound a bit terse but I have set through IQ testing 4 times over an 8 year period with both psychologists and with a psychiatrist and I know what they look for. Part of the parent appointment after IQ testing is to go over the scores, for the professional to make their recommendations on what would be best for that child, and any other observations. Unless the mom had an incompetent professional she knows. I know that you not aware of what happens when a child gets an assessment but how many well meaning friends do you think you could stomach telling you what you paid a large amount of money to get from a trained professional. How many times do you think you could stomach hearing your dd has autism, PPD, or whatever new label they are using for the spectrum?

 

Blessings,

Rebecca