Question regarding college homeschool requirements: Syllabus for home created courses

[mlktwins]

Good morning all!  I have a couple of schools that are asking for a syllabus with topics covered and a reading list for each course, if appropriate.

If I state the topics covered and what was done in my course descriptions, should that be enough?  Some examples:

Intro to Photography included some video courses on how to use a DSLR, several books (one on the specific camera and one was Understanding Exposure), and going out and taking pictures.  I didn't lay out a syllabus for what was done each week of school.  It just got done and I have a list of dates/hours they watched, read, and took pictures.

Some of our literature was/is done at home, and I have included topics covered, work that was done, and a list of books read for each course in the course descriptions.  9th grade was LLftLOtR and the Oddysey and Iliad (with Great Courses).  10th was Windows to the World and also read (and discussed, wrote about, did a study guide for) 10+ world literature books).  11th was an Intro to to British Literature course with Lantern English and discussed, did some study guides from 7 Sisters, and papers on 10+ British literature works.  12th grade is all American literature reading, study guides, discussions, and papers.  The writing portion of our English 9-12 was outsourced for 10th and 11th, 9th was WWS2, and 12th is They Say/I Say at home. 

For economics, we used 3 Great Courses videos with notes and discussions, one book, and they did a research paper on an economics topic utilizing a Lantern English writing course.

Sorry that got long!  I should be good just submitting my course descriptions if they are detailed for my classes?  We outsourced a lot.

 

 

[Eos]

I don't think any of what I wrote was really to your question re actual syllabus.

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Eos
realized op asked about only home taught courses, added another that still isn't a syllabus

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You really need to ask the colleges how much they want. Last year Bard insisted they needed a full syllabus for each class.

For others, what you proposed would be enough. But unless you ask what they mean by syllabus, you're guessing. 

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

You really need to ask the colleges how much they want. Last year Bard insisted they needed a full syllabus for each class.

 

Wow, did you have to create one for each class? I have a schedule for each class but not necessarily what I have seen called a syllabus (e.g. learning objectives, etc.)

[kokotg]

3 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

You really need to ask the colleges how much they want. Last year Bard insisted they needed a full syllabus for each class.

For others, what you proposed would be enough. But unless you ask what they mean by syllabus, you're guessing. 

heh. maybe that's why they didn't admit my kid. Did you ask for clarification, and they said, "yes, a full syllabus"?  I had all the things they specified in my course descriptions ("name of class and instructor; goal of class; list of books read and indication of other experiences used to cover the curriculum; method of assessment"), so just submitted those. I can't imagine there are very many homeschoolers who actually write up a full syllabus for each course done at home, so submitting them on college applications would involve making them up after the fact. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by kokotg

[mlktwins]

19 minutes ago, kokotg said:

heh. maybe that's why they didn't admit my kid. Did you ask for clarification, and they said, "yes, a full syllabus"?  I had all the things they specified in my course descriptions ("name of class and instructor; goal of class; list of books read and indication of other experiences used to cover the curriculum; method of assessment"), so just submitted those. I can't imagine there are very many homeschoolers who actually write up a full syllabus for each course done at home, so submitting them on college applications would involve making them up after the fact. 

This is what I did.  My course descriptions cover this.  But...one school (DS1's first choice at the moment) wants information about my homeschool approach, including a thorough curriculum description.  The website goes on to say, "If you have created your own curriculum, please provide a syllabus with topics covered and a reading list for each course, if appropriate."  I would have to make these up as I didn't write up a full syllabus for each course.  I will contact the AC again tomorrow just to confirm.  I think another (safety) school wants them too, but they are just getting course descriptions unless I need to do them for the school I'm asking about.

[easypeasy]

We very literally dropped schools off the list when they had requirements like this. Ridiculous. There was no way I was going to sit down and reverse-create detailed syllabi for classes my kids had taken years ago when I had detailed course descriptions, book lists, and test scores to prove my kid was plenty smart.

Some schools even want writing samples from homeschoolers. On in particular wanted a graded essay.

Definitely confirm with them regarding how detailed they are talking. However, I bet, if you talk to three people, you'll get three different answers. lol

If there's a gray area, I would send in what you have. Have a solid "homeschool packet" put together with your homeschool philosophy, mechanics of how your school was organized, and your course descriptions and reading lists. Include ISBNs - the whole jazz to beef it up.

In our personal experience, when I would send in a well-organized homeschool packet, the schools asked zero additional questions (versus friends of ours who ignored some of the homeschool requests/requirements who had more issues with admissions).

[cintinative]

Wow, I wonder if the schedules I have saved with individual assignments would suffice in this case (in addition to the course descriptions). I don't even have ISBNs on my course descriptions anymore because people said on here they aren't necessary. 

[mlktwins]

55 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Wow, I wonder if the schedules I have saved with individual assignments would suffice in this case (in addition to the course descriptions). I don't even have ISBNs on my course descriptions anymore because people said on here they aren't necessary. 

I'm not putting ISBNs on mine.

[kokotg]

14 hours ago, mlktwins said:

This is what I did.  My course descriptions cover this.  But...one school (DS1's first choice at the moment) wants information about my homeschool approach, including a thorough curriculum description.  The website goes on to say, "If you have created your own curriculum, please provide a syllabus with topics covered and a reading list for each course, if appropriate."  I would have to make these up as I didn't write up a full syllabus for each course.  I will contact the AC again tomorrow just to confirm.  I think another (safety) school wants them too, but they are just getting course descriptions unless I need to do them for the school I'm asking about.

It's tough when it's their first choice! I've told this story before, but our school that wanted more than we had from homeschoolers was Emory; they required 3 subject tests, and my kid had 2, so they got 2 (and I asked to confirm that they wouldn't take AP scores instead). Obviously, they're not requiring this anymore. Anyway, he was initially waitlisted and then eventually offered admission off the waitlist at the Oxford campus, so it clearly wasn't really a requirement requirement, even though they insisted it was in advance. But it wasn't his first choice, so he was fine just submitting what he had and seeing what happened. I don't have a big problem with schools that require more than is typical from homeschoolers (I consider course descriptions pretty standard, and wanting to see examples of papers and other work a pain but a reasonable thing to ask for); but I get really annoyed with dumb extra requirements, like subject tests specifically from a kid with 5 AP scores and 11 DE classes/grades. Or a syllabus for a class you're doing at your dining room table with one student. Although I'll say just based on their description of what they want, they might just be asking for a course description when they say syllabus?

[Farrar]

I know what Bard says they want. I also know what Bard got and let in and I don't think they want what they said they want.

[mlktwins]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

I know what Bard says they want. I also know what Bard got and let in and I don't think they want what they said they want.

This whole process is crazy 😋!

[mlktwins]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:10 PM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

You really need to ask the colleges how much they want. Last year Bard insisted they needed a full syllabus for each class.

For others, what you proposed would be enough. But unless you ask what they mean by syllabus, you're guessing. 

Thank you!  I reached out the AC again and she was great.  I explained what I included in my course descriptions and asked if more was necessary.  She said it sounded like I had everything covered and that the school will reach out if they have any questions once they receive their application packets.

It's not a selective school so hopefully we are good.  I don't want to be the one to mess up my boys' chances though (my paperwork).

[threedogfarm]

We were just at Bard, and I liked the AC in charge of homeschoolers. He was very approachable and genuinely seemed to like homeschoolers.  That said, Bard wasn't a good fit for my kid for a lot of reasons. But what a beautiful location.  

Last year only one school asked for additional information for my oldest, for a chemistry class taken through the WTMA with the lab done independently.  Luckily we had used the Home Scientist's Chemistry Lab (Honors), and I just sent the TOC of the labs along with the intro chapter.  That satisfied the AC and was really easy for me to do.  The AC obviously had read my course descriptions because that was where I detailed this division.  This particular college also asked for a graded paper.    

As a total aside, I think that taking some WTMA classes was very helpful. First, it made getting teacher recommendations easy.  Second, my kids had grades outside of our homeschool classes. Third, my kids were accountable to someone else.  If they had a question about the syllabus or a specific question from class, they emailed the teacher or meet with the teacher. They'll have to do this in college and it is now second nature to them.  Finally, some courses are just better in a group setting like seminar-style literary analysis classes or creative writing.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:01 PM, cintinative said:

Wow, did you have to create one for each class? I have a schedule for each class but not necessarily what I have seen called a syllabus (e.g. learning objectives, etc.)

 

On 10/12/2022 at 6:38 PM, kokotg said:

heh. maybe that's why they didn't admit my kid. Did you ask for clarification, and they said, "yes, a full syllabus"?  I had all the things they specified in my course descriptions ("name of class and instructor; goal of class; list of books read and indication of other experiences used to cover the curriculum; method of assessment"), so just submitted those. I can't imagine there are very many homeschoolers who actually write up a full syllabus for each course done at home, so submitting them on college applications would involve making them up after the fact. 

 

A few years ago, when my youngest qas in high school, I started working as an Independent Educational Consultant. 

The Bard experience was one a colleague encountered with a client. She is a longtime homeschooler and experienced IEC. Bard was adamant that they wanted a full syllabus per course. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Sebastian (a lady)
Quoted twice.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Now that I'm working as an Independent Educational Consultant, I talk to a lot of college reps.

There is so much variation between colleges on admissions. Some highly value test scores. Others don't use at all. Some want lots of demonstrated interest. Others care about the student's context. Others just rank applicants based on grades.

For homeschoolers the most critical pieces seem to be explaining what the student did academically (transcript & course descriptions) and outside evaluations (outside grades, test scores, letters of recommendation). I've heard dual enrollment and letters of recommendation from non-family members mentioned frequently. 

If I had a current homeschooler, I'd make an effort to retain a little more sample work from outside courses. Had we been asked to produce a paper, we probably could have. But that's because they were returned via email. I worry that courses that use Canvas or similar portals are inaccessible after the course, so a student can't retrieve a course syllabus or graded assignments. 

But also, I'd like to tell my past self to enjoy the process more and worry a little less. There are so many colleges out there. Not dozens, but hundreds and hundreds of nice schools with a lot to offer. 

 

[mlktwins]

20 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

If I had a current homeschooler, I'd make an effort to retain a little more sample work from outside courses. Had we been asked to produce a paper, we probably could have. But that's because they were returned via email. I worry that courses that use Canvas or similar portals are inaccessible after the course, so a student can't retrieve a course syllabus or graded assignments. 

 

I remember the boys' 9th grade Biology teacher saying to make sure to have a copy of the graded big lab report they did that year. That college may require one from homeschoolers. It is hard in canvas to download a graded/annotated copy of an assignment from Canvas. I took screenshots to get it all -- LOL.  Wouldn't be pretty, but I can produce it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

10 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

I remember the boys' 9th grade Biology teacher saying to make sure to have a copy of the graded big lab report they did that year. That college may require one from homeschoolers. It is hard in canvas to download a graded/annotated copy of an assignment from Canvas. I took screenshots to get it all -- LOL.  Wouldn't be pretty, but I can produce it.

Screenshots may be the best you can get.

Though there is also an option in some computer operating systems to hit print and then select pdf instead of a local printer. You can then save the pdf.

[EKS]

I suspect that they are using the word "syllabus" when they really mean "course description."

Even the colleges themselves don't seem to have real syllabuses anymore.  And by syllabus, I mean a document that includes (among many other things) a list of all topics covered, assignments (including problem numbers), and due dates.  I think they never list these things because (1) they don't want to have to change them each semester and (2) they like to trickle out the assignments each week.

[lewelma]

6 hours ago, EKS said:

I suspect that they are using the word "syllabus" when they really mean "course description."

Even the colleges themselves don't seem to have real syllabuses anymore.  And by syllabus, I mean a document that includes (among many other things) a list of all topics covered, assignments (including problem numbers), and due dates.  I think they never list these things because (1) they don't want to have to change them each semester and (2) they like to trickle out the assignments each week.

We did have to supply one for a DE class to get the credit transferred. They required dates and topics, and specific pages covered by the textbook (with the edition listed). There was never a syllabus supplied, so we made one based on his homework.  We also had to supply the exam and a statement from the instructor that the exam was done under exam conditions with a proctor.  So, not exactly relevant to this thread, but keep your class content from DE classes just in case!

[cintinative]

8 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We did have to supply one for a DE class to get the credit transferred. They required dates and topics, and specific pages covered by the textbook (with the edition listed). There was never a syllabus supplied, so we made one based on his homework.  We also had to supply the exam and a statement from the instructor that the exam was done under exam conditions with a proctor.  So, not exactly relevant to this thread, but keep your class content from DE classes just in case!

Wow, this is good to know, and it would be tough for the class my son is currently in. The assignments are in more than one place in Canvas.

[lewelma]

21 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Wow, this is good to know, and it would be tough for the class my son is currently in. The assignments are in more than one place in Canvas.

Well, we actually created the syllabus, and put a footnote at the bottom saying because it was not provided, we created it based on the assignments given and what pages it linked to in the book. In fact, there were multiple books that you could choose to read, so we had to pick one and find the pages that the homework was based on, and list those pages on the syllabus we made.

[Bootsie]

9 hours ago, EKS said:

I suspect that they are using the word "syllabus" when they really mean "course description."

Even the colleges themselves don't seem to have real syllabuses anymore.  And by syllabus, I mean a document that includes (among many other things) a list of all topics covered, assignments (including problem numbers), and due dates.  I think they never list these things because (1) they don't want to have to change them each semester and (2) they like to trickle out the assignments each week.

At the college where I have taught, we are required to have  a syllabus.  They must be maintained by the department for accreditation.  However, I have never been required to list all assignments with problem numbers (often my assignments do not even come out of the textbook).  We are encouraged, but not required, to have due dates on the syllabus.  The bulk of what we are required to include in the syllabus is university administrative stuff, that is available in other places like the Student Handboonk, that is not unique to my class, and in my opinion, has not place in a class syllabus.

[EKS]

14 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

At the college where I have taught, we are required to have  a syllabus.  They must be maintained by the department for accreditation.  However, I have never been required to list all assignments with problem numbers (often my assignments do not even come out of the textbook).  We are encouraged, but not required, to have due dates on the syllabus.  The bulk of what we are required to include in the syllabus is university administrative stuff, that is available in other places like the Student Handboonk, that is not unique to my class, and in my opinion, has not place in a class syllabus.

Listing assignments, or making them available from day one, would be very much appreciated by...well...students like me.

In reference to the rest of your post, what is the point of a syllabus if it is all the same from one class to the next?

[ByGrace3]

It is blowing my mind what some schools are asking for. My dd's top choice is so far not asking for anything. I am mailing in the transcript today...that is it. That and DE transcripts which I had sent. It is stressing me out to no end that this is the only school she is applying to...I mean I don't think there is any chance she won't get in (small Christian college) and it is still early but . . . still super stressful for me!