If you had a kid who wanted to study music in college, what did they do in high school?

[Drama Llama]

DS14 is asking to switch to a small private school next year, that doesn't have much in the way of music or extracurriculars.  This kind of came out of nowhere, and the reasons are complicated, but if he goes it means that he'll have way more out of school time than he would in public or other privates, but also that he'd need to do pretty much 100% of his music outside of school.

So, I'm trying to figure out what that looks like for a kid who says he wants to go to music school, and eventually be a teacher. 

We live in a big urban area, and there are lots of options for choirs, and classes (Jazz theory, music theory) and kinds of ensembles, and musical theater institutes.  I'm just trying to figure out what's important if he wants to keep this door open.  

So, if your kid wanted to do music, what did they do in high school?  Other thoughts?

[Dmmetler]

I went to a math/science magnet high school, was the Engish person on the academic competition team, and did Forensics and Drama, although I usually ended up playing pit orchestra for the Spring musicals. I also did band, Jazz band, AP music theory, a regional youth orchestra, took private lessons with a college professor, sang in a church choir and played handbells, and did summer music camps. The last two years, I taught middle school kids privately. 

 

I would say that I was probably right in the middle on prep when I went to music school at a State U, where some kids had been able to access performing arts high schools, and some had done marching and concert band, and never had private lessons before starting college. 

[Moonhawk]

I was accepted into music programs for college (for performance). I was in the school choir, did piano duos, did a lot of accompaniment and duets with other musicians as the pianist, was part of the college outreach choir, state choir, took private piano and private voice lessons, church choir, and ran the song portion of a few extra-curricular groups (think YWCA, etc).

DH was accepted to graduate and undergraduate music programs (for composition) after his BA (liberal arts, no music credits other than 1 theory class). Other than 1.5 years of piano when he was 13-15, he had no formal training and was completely self-taught (or, library-taught, more accurately). He was behind the drummers on reading complex rhythms, the singers on vocal range, the pianists on performance, but really he was basically middle of the pack on all these things, and was top of his class in his area. But when I say he lived and breathed music literally every minute of the day, I am not exaggerating. This to say: you don't NEED all of those things like extra curricular and private lessons, but you need to make up the gap in some way and it is not an easy way. 

I would probably reach out to specific colleges that he would like to consider (maybe when he's 15) and see what their admissions and audition expectations are. A lot of kids don't figure out that they like music until they are older and still get into music programs. The more competitive the program, though, the better it is to have the preparation.

[kokotg]

My son is applying to colleges as a clarinet performance major right now. He decided he wanted to major in music towards the end of 9th grade, after not starting clarinet until summer before 9th grade. And he's homeschooled, so everything has been outside of school. I think the two most important things he did/we did for him were getting him the best private teacher we could find and finding him groups he could perform with where the expectations and talent level were high (i.e. places where he wouldn't be the best clarinetist in the room and would be challenged). When I asked the same sort of question when we were first thinking this stuff through, a lot of people stressed the importance of summer programs as well. But thanks to covid he only did one camp, the year after he started playing, and I don't think it's hurt him (of course, most kids were in the same boat the past few years). 

Junior year he did sample lessons at colleges he was interested in to get an idea of what teachers he'd work well with, and right now we're nearly finished with audition season (phew!)...he's applied to 6 schools total, which is WAY fewer than my oldest, non-music kid applied to, because doing more auditions than that seemed overwhelming (and expensive...although a bunch of them were switched to virtual). So far he's been accepted at 2 and is waiting to hear from the rest. 

ETA more specific details about what the music part of his time looks like: right now he has a 1 hour private lesson every week, plays in a clarinet choir and a youth symphony on Sundays, in a youth wind ensemble on Mondays, and practices a couple of hours a day. He's auditioned for district honor band and All-state the past few years (and is actually getting to do all state in person this year!) but hasn't done any competitions otherwise. He took a music theory class through WTM Academy last year and also takes piano lessons. 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by kokotg

[Ethel Mertz]

DS is at a small college with an excellent fine arts program. He is a double major in music (performance) and drama. In high school he was in chorus, sang in chorale groups and church choirs  (often as a soloist- 1st as a boy soprano and then as a tenor), took private voice and jazz drum lessons from the age of 8 on), won the high school talent show with a self-composed jazz drumming solo, auditioned and got major parts in two high school musicals (the 1st one never made it to performance because Covid and the 2nd was streamed because Covid), and also took high school courses in music theory and theatre tech. He was homeschooled until 2nd semester of 10th grade.

[Eos]

All of the above: private lessons, youth ensembles all over the state and in Boston, summer programs, volunteer gigs for fund-raisers, paid gigs.  Lots of theory and sight-singing, lots of practice.  Performance degree admissions are based heavily on the audition but I believe that music education is not as audition-based, though he may still have to do an audition.  Agree with @Moonhawkwith researching and reaching out to colleges he's interested in sooner rather than later. If the audition is as important as it is for performance majors, he'll need to start studying with a private teacher that can get him to that level. It's great that you have access to classes, choirs and ensembles where you live.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Eos

[PronghornD]

My kid learned to play piano, violin, clarinet, bass clarinet, and guitar, took voice lessons, sang in two choirs, took two international choir trips, taught a church kids' choir, took lessons in music theory and music composition, and placed in a state-wide music composition contest. They are now a junior in college, studying music composition at a private college. They won a full tuition scholarship through a music composition contest at the college.

Edited February 18, 2022 by PronghornD

[Lecka]

Can you ask his current teachers?

I know the backgrounds of some music teachers.

For ones I am familiar with, there seem to be two kinds.

One kind was very gifted in performance and continues to play in professional music groups.  They also teach.

The other kind loves kids and teaching, but they are not huge performers, and to some extent you could picture them just working as a teacher or with kids in general.  
 

In schools my impression (including from when I was a student) there is a mix of teachers who are better at technical skills and (maybe) musicianship, and teachers who are good with kids and making programs happen, but they are not the ones who might work as much with gifted performers.  
 

Honestly if he might do high school band, I think experience with marching is something to think about.

 

It’s something where some students and maybe the more serious instrument students (though this is very general) might not care for marching, but it is something that is going to be part of a job (edit:  depending on the job) and something that some teachers do love.  
 

Anyway if there is any particular teacher that your son sees as a role model or that has made him think he would like this job, I think zero in on that.  
 

Because some are more on the “performance, I teach advanced students” side, and some are more on the side of “I enjoy kids, I enjoy seeing kids improve in their ability, I like all the teaching stuff.”  

Edited February 18, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I was friends with someone who was good enough to be a performance major and got kind-of warned away from it because he would not have wanted to consider music education.  He was not interested and would have been impatient and just not wanted to deal with students who were not serious, advanced students.  Maybe this is regional but locally at least there are just not many jobs available that are that way.  
 

He also probably wasn’t good enough for a career as a soloist or in the kind of professional orchestra where you don’t have another job.  
 

It can be different than someone who actually wants to go into music education.  
 

 

[vonfirmath]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

Honestly if he might do high school band, I think experience with marching is something to think about.

 

 

This. My husband was interested in teaching high school. But had difficulty getting into a teaching program due to never having attended high school himself (HE went directly into college in the high school years)

[Dmmetler]

I will also say-I hadn't planned on teaching kids-I had bought into the line that basically the best path for me was the PhD/DMA and to teach at the college level. But two things that I did while in high school axtuallg really set me up well for doing so.

 

#1 was that my school had a lot of donated student grade instruments, so I could, and did, check out instruments and learn to play them. Lots of them. Which comes in handy when you end up teaching beginning band to 5th and 6th graders. 

 

#2 was that my state, at the time, had a program which placed "at risk" kids as volunteers in non-profit orgs, and paid them minimum wage. So, I had a standing job from age 16 until age 22 (I didn't use it all year, but I was elgible ) with the United way funded child care program. I'd always been a good babysitter, and enjoyed it, but the result of that is that when my migraines and health issues made it pretty obvious that a performance career wasn't for me, it made it easier to pivot not just to teaching, but to narrow in on early childhood and elementary teaching.  I still got the academic degree before I realized where I really belonged (which has made it easy to jump to teachung at the college level at times), but because I HAD experience with different age groups. I knew I couldn't handle being a high school band director and dealing with marching band because I'm just too heat sensitive and fatigue too easily, but I can teach beginners all day,and am really, really good with ewrly beginners and kids who struggle due to learning disabilities and special needs. 

[PronghornD]

Most schools have auditions, so your kid should pick one instrument (or voice) to put extra time into. They should try to reach a state of excellence so that they can audition on that instrument.

 

[catz]

My oldest is double majoring in a performance based program that required a competitive audition at a major university.  His 2nd major is unrelated to music (though I can imagine ways he could pull both his majors together, I strongly suspect he will go to grad school doing something).  My youngest is a junior and is going to want to likely audition for some music programs next year.  Both homeschooled, though were/are/will be mostly dual enrolled their junior and senior years. 

On the performance route vs. the music education route.  I know many people in our metro who have performance degrees who are making a living doing music related things.  But for almost no one does that JUST mean performing.  For many of them that means working music/performance related non-profits, writing grants, arranging and composing music, teaching private and group lessons in the community, music direction, strong tech and people skills, etc.  And then I know people teaching at the college level too.  The people doing music education are the people most likely to want to teach in a school setting and want to work toward licensure.  If the programs are auditioned, they can still be super competitive.  Even at schools you don't hear about being amazing music programs.  

In high school my kids both took private lessons in multiple instruments/voice, did community ensemble work, all that stuff also required auditions.  Summer camps and programs.  My daughter has done volunteering/work with young musical theater programs, that can be a good thing to look at over the summer.  If your son sings, he might consider community choirs, community and youth musical theater programs.  Or volunteering to work with a music director.  If he is not taking piano lessons, at least taking a year or 2 of basic piano w/theory can be super helpful to ease (or possibly even test out) those introductory classes in a lot of programs.  Theory tends to be a weeder class in a lot of programs.  

We learned a lot about music audition programs these days both through my son's process and now my daughter this year started taking private lessons from someone who teaches in a major university.  Right now, my daughter is her only non-adult, non-university student at the moment.  I also know a couple people on faculty in a program that regularly makes music lists at a national level.  If you're looking at more competitive programs, the vast majority of students who are auditioning would probably be just fine in the program.  You're also auditioning against your local cohort.  Music programs want students from a variety of backgrounds, social economic levels, varying diversity etc.  These programs are just ever more competitive, especially if your primary "instrument" is popular.  So if you do community ensemble work and start seeing kids launch to programs locally, you'll get a sense of what their process is.  Having private teachers who've guided local students into college programs is a good idea.  I would not underestimate the value of doing summer programs at a university you're interested in or having a reference letter from someone from one of these programs. 

One thing I would recommend as you move toward applying is make sure you have at least one school on the list that is not auditioned and is a financial safety that you can afford but will still allow your child to pursue a program he wants.  Merit aid for music programs can be dicey if that is a concern, it just depends who they need in that program a particular year.  My kid had a couple college music teachers he met with one on one basically say "hey, we think you're great, but you're going to get much more affordable offers, we don't have budget for X this year.  Please consider us for grad school".  Very few teachers will be this frank, but you don't know all the reasons you maybe aren't getting an offer and someone else may be.  Actually, if a school IS affordable for you without merit, telling a music teacher that it is a top choice and hint it is affordable doesn't hurt any.   If a program is full up on talented clarinet players they may allow some in, but may not be able to offer merit.  But that Oboe player from the rural south might get a generous offer as a unique applicant in a needed instrument.  So yes the audition is very important, but seeing some inside recent track stuff I definitely have a different picture of the process than I did before my kid started applying to these programs.  

ETA - one quick thing that I saw when we started the process is teacher fit is SO important.  Much more important than anything else.  My kid ended up in a program we didn't at all initially imagine him in.  Because that is the program that rolled out the red carpet for him.  His teacher has been extremely flexible and accommodating with kind of a non-traditional music degree student.  Having that fit is THE BEST and I'm actually super glad he isn't at some of the other programs he auditioned for because I suspect it would have just led to him dropping the music degree all together when he really does like it and can see himself using it in some ways.  I don't want to put out a ton of identifying info on my kid but you're welcome to PM me especially later in the process.

Edited February 18, 2022 by catz

[Dmmetler]

I will also say-maybe not for your DS, bit for someone googling down the road. There actually are getting to be some decent CC music programs out there, and if your state has one, that can be a really good option to reduce costs, particularly if you are in a state with tuition free or very low cost CC. The one I am most familiar with does have housing, and has guaranteed transfer paths with the major state U's. In many cases, the kids coming from the CC on more common instruments have an easier path because they're the ones who would be more likely to get pushed to grad students and the lower tier bands/choirs for the first two years, while at the CC they are working with faculty and are often able to work at a higher level. There also is no marching band, so if you have a student for whom marching isn't a good fit,it lets them focus on concert band-and miss the "you have to march for 2 years" requirement that many big state U's have. 

 

I wouldn't suggest that path for the rarer instruments, because usually a CC will only have a small number of faculty, but if you're primarily a clarinet, flute, trumpet, trombone, piano, type player, there's a decent chance that a CC will have someone who is excellent. 

[PronghornD]

If your child plays an unusual instrument that schools don't have a lot of, that can be a route to scholarships. Also, many students ask for a trial lesson to get to know the professor they would be working with before deciding on schools.

[catz]

3 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

 

I wouldn't suggest that path for the rarer instruments, because usually a CC will only have a small number of faculty, but if you're primarily a clarinet, flute, trumpet, trombone, piano, type player, there's a decent chance that a CC will have someone who is excellent. 

And sometimes if a school/program is near a desirable metro with good musical opportunities, you might be surprised at the quality of the faculty you find at even a CC or offbeat school.  We were surprised at how amazing faculty was at some little heard of music programs that might also be performing regularly/doing other side gigs near some desirable to live in area and how some of the faculty at very well regarded schools that make all the lists were really not better qualified than some of teachers my kids have worked with as teens.  I actually didn't find music program rankings very meaningful at the end of the day.  Not that those that rank high are not good programs.  It does seem like the rankings are more about things like number of ensembles, performance opportunities, facilities, etc.

[lewelma]

I haven't read the previous posts, but here is a list of what my older son did throughout high school. My understanding is that it would have made him competitive to get in, but he chose physics!

Lessons: he took weekly private lessons with a well known and well respected musician

Teachers/recommendations: his teachers were all performing musicians who were in well respected local and national groups. These people wrote great recommendations (I read one)

Exams: he did ABRSM up to the Diploma level with top grades.

Groups: He played in a quartet and a string orchestra, with weekly half day lessons. Both led by musicians in the NZ symphony orchestra or the NZ string quartet.

Leadership: he led the small string orchestra for 2 of the 4 years.

Masterclasses: he attended 3 day weekend master classes each year.

Performances: his groups had two performances each year, and his private lessons had recitals at the retirement village 4 times per year.

Competitions: his quartet was in the NZ chamber music competition for 2 years, and did very well.

Music Resume: all this made for an impressive music resume

HTH

ETA: my younger did one thing my older didn't do, he volunteered to teach weekly, after-school lessons at a low decile school.

Edited February 18, 2022 by lewelma

[Ceilingfan]

I'd guess the key is finding him a performing group; if you're near a largish metro, there's usually a community youth band or orchestra (or several) and he should do all of these that he can manage.

What you learn in high school band, if you're a good enough player to be considering doing it in college, is really not the specifics of your instrument - that is all learned through private lessons anyway, which I assume he will continue to have. But there are some things you really cannot learn without playing with a group of other people, especially one with mixed instruments, and some things you cannot even learn unless the group is large enough to play standard concert band or orchestral literature.

The bonus is that he'll have a lot of time to focus on the instrument! I found it hard to carve out an hour a day outside of school for practice. But he'll also need the group experience.

[kokotg]

I'll also say that I think for my kid not being in school (and most of this would also apply to not being in a school with a big music program) has been a net positive. He's mostly played with selective, very talented ensembles, so he's used to playing music at a high level and also to knowing where he stands in relation to the best young musicians in the area. I think a lot of kids get used to being the best in their school ensembles, often without having to put in a ton of effort, and that can lead to complacency and bad practice habits and a rude awakening whenever they leave that bubble. There are some extracurriculars where not having school programs can be a huge disadvantage, but we haven't found music to be one of them. 

[kbutton]

18 hours ago, Eos said:

Performance degree admissions are based heavily on the audition but I believe that music education is not as audition-based, though he may still have to do an audition.  

My son is interested in music therapy, and we met with a local music educator to get some recommendations and opinion on whether it's a realistic plan for him. He said the same thing about education majors and music therapists. I know that at least one program we looked at online for music therapy even stated that the music therapy students are evaluated for competency, and competency was differentiated from performance. 

[catz]

19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

My son is interested in music therapy, and we met with a local music educator to get some recommendations and opinion on whether it's a realistic plan for him. He said the same thing about education majors and music therapists. I know that at least one program we looked at online for music therapy even stated that the music therapy students are evaluated for competency, and competency was differentiated from performance. 

That is super interesting to me because the admission rates on our closest music therapy program at a major university is just ridiculous competitive to get into.  I think admissions rates for that program are below 10%.  That doesn’t mean audition is the key to admittance to those programs of course.  I think it pays to do your homework though on the admission rates of the programs you are looking at.  Because this university doesn’t make any best music programs list, though the faculty and program is really good and send students to lots of good out comes and grad schools.  It’s a big 10 public university.  

Edited February 19, 2022 by catz

[Lecka]

I think some things must be so regional and also depend on desired places of residence.

We lived in a medium-small town (population around 150,000) and in nearby rural school districts they were looking for music teachers who could — say — teach band to 6th-12th grade but would need to be able to teach marching.

When I think about it I can think of more music careers, outside of performance, in the “suburb of a city” where we live now.  I thought that was a good point.

I do think in places where I have lived a lot of music teachers are strong players but not as gifted/advanced as what is being described here.  Or at least at the point they started college.  I do think they practiced hours a day in college!  
 

 

[Dmmetler]

45 minutes ago, catz said:

That is super interesting to me because the admission rates on our closest music therapy program at a major university is just ridiculous competitive to get into.  I think admissions rates for that program are below 10%.  That doesn’t mean audition is the key to admittance to those programs of course.  I think it pays to do your homework though on the admission rates of the programs you are looking at.  Because this university doesn’t make any best music programs list, though the faculty and program is really good and send students to lots of good out comes and grad schools.  It’s a big 10 public university.  

Music therapy is artificially rationed, so there is usually only one public (and maybe a second private) degree program per state.  That makes the ones that do exist highly competitive, but it also means that there are usually internship slots available (although usually not paid ones), and typically it’s possible to find jobs. The competition comes on the front end more than the back one. 

[catz]

14 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Music therapy is artificially rationed, so there is usually only one public (and maybe a second private) degree program per state.  That makes the ones that do exist highly competitive, but it also means that there are usually internship slots available (although usually not paid ones), and typically it’s possible to find jobs. The competition comes on the front end more than the back one. 

Oh for sure.  Good post grad placement out of this program is a given.  I just know people every year that has a kid apply to some music programs without really knowing this and then not getting into anything that will really work for them.  I think have a non auditioned financial safety fail safe is definitely a good plan for music applications.   I also knew kids that took gap years and prepared more.   

Edited February 19, 2022 by catz