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Omicron anecdata?

Not_a_Number

By Not_a_Number,
in The Chat Board

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kbutton

kbutton

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KSera said:

I haven’t seen this! I’m still getting through it, but I’m geeking out over the findings—super useful! Thanks for sharing!

I thought it was very timely for it to show up in my feed since it’s been discussed here. You are most welcome! 

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I thought it was very timely for it to show up in my feed since it’s been discussed here. You are most welcome! 

Super timely. I’ve had to set it aside for now, but I’ll probably come back and share a couple findings from it that I found particularly helpful and relevant. 

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Harriet Vane

Harriet Vane

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KSera said:

Super timely. I’ve had to set it aside for now, but I’ll probably come back and share a couple findings from it that I found particularly helpful and relevant. 

I would appreciate hearing your take whenever you're able. I was an English and writing major, so I rely on my more sciencey friends to help parse out this stuff. 

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Spryte

Spryte

Posted
Posted

Anyone else who ordered the Hooga wrap light — have you received your order?

I placed an order on Sep 1, and it’s still showing as “unfulfilled.” 

We have a smaller, handheld light that we ordered from Amazon a few years ago, and I’m really looking forward to the wrap.

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, kbutton said:

Seems to be really long, so I haven’t read it, but this was posted on a Covid group I follow. It’s about testing.

https://doi.org/10.1128/cmr.00072-23

I will share the things I found interesting while reading this. I'll quote some parts and then give a TL;DR for each part:

Quote
Early in the pandemic, multiple studies analyzed Ct values in upper respiratory tract (URT) swab samples collected longitudinally from symptomatic patients to assess viral kinetics relative to symptom onset and observed that SARS-CoV-2 VLs appeared to peak at symptom onset and decline steadily thereafter (1–4). This observation helped inform practice guidelines for testing and contact tracing, with individuals in close contact to a COVID-19 case within the 2 days preceding symptom onset considered at risk for transmission (5).
In contrast, studies conducted later in the pandemic (6–8) have indicated that peak VL is now delayed relative to symptom onset, occurring 3–4 days after the onset of COVID-19 symptoms. In a recent study of 348 newly diagnosed, SARS-CoV-2 PCR-positive symptomatic adults, 91% of whom were vaccinated and/or previously infected, median VLs as interpreted by both Ct value and nucleocapsid (NC) antigen (Ag) concentration measurements rose from the day of symptom onset and peaked around the fourth day of symptoms (6).

TL;DR: Early in the pandemic, peak viral load was at symptom onset and then declined. Now, peak viral load is delayed occuring about 4 days after symptom onset.

My own interpretation of good news about this: it's easier to tell when someone may be contagious! Not as much pre-symptomatic transmission.

My own bad news about this (paper mentions this as well): the new very short isolation guidance means people are heading back out into public when they are at or near peak viral shedding 😥

Quote
Studies using ultrasensitive, quantitative assays demonstrated that Ag concentrations and Ct values were tightly correlated in nasopharyngeal (NP) swab samples collected early in the pandemic from adults and children (17, 18). This suggested both a reproducible relationship between RNA and protein levels and that the kinetics of RNA and protein clearance from infected tissues were likely to be similar. The recent study by Frediani et al. (6) directly measured Ag concentrations (using Single Molecule Array) in samples tested by PCR and found that Ag concentration trends very closely mirrored Ct value trends, suggesting that there remains a close correlation between Ct value and Ag concentration with recent variants, as was observed early in the pandemic (17). However, the exact quantitative relationship between Ct value and Ag concentrations may have changed over time; a recent study compared RNA and Ag concentrations in samples from Omicron- versus Delta-infected patients and concluded that Omicron samples contained less Ag per RNA molecule than Delta samples (19).

TL;DR: Infectiousness has been closely correlated with having a positive antigen test throughout the pandemic, but it appears that with omicron, someone may be more likely to have enough virus to be contagious without having enough antigen to trip a positive test. IOW, Someone might be contagious even with a negative test.

Quote

Over time, a Ct value of approximately 30 in a URT swab specimen came to be seen as a reasonable proxy for that sample being “infectious” (culture positive) in vitro and in turn a proxy for the swabbed individual being able to transmit the virus to others [e.g., references (10, 21)]. Notably, however, a recent, single study observed that specimens containing the Omicron variant were culture positive at higher Ct values (only E-gene results reported) compared to samples containing the Delta variant (22), suggesting that a Ct value >30 (or a negative Ag test) may provide less reassurance of limited infectiousness now than earlier in the pandemic.

Same TL; DR as above--negative rapid test now might not be as good for indicating not infectious

Quote

Sample types suitable for SARS-CoV-2 testing

I won't quote this whole section, but the findings were that for self collection, a combined throat swab with lower nasal swab was most accurate.

I'll skip the section on the various lab based assays available.

Oh wow, I'm seeing now that I'm still way at the beginning of this paper. I probably won't be able to do the whole thing, but I will keep coming back to it and sharing interesting things as I do.

 

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Corraleno

Corraleno

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Spryte said:

Anyone else who ordered the Hooga wrap light — have you received your order?

I placed an order on Sep 1, and it’s still showing as “unfulfilled.” 

We have a smaller, handheld light that we ordered from Amazon a few years ago, and I’m really looking forward to the wrap.

I got mine a few days ago, which I think was 5 days after placing the order? If it's been 8 days now, I'd contact customer service.

ETA: Bummer, I just looked on the website and it says it's sold out, now available for preorder only. I'd call them and see when they expect to have them back in stock.

Edited by Corraleno
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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

ETA: Bummer, I just looked on the website and it says it's sold out, now available for preorder only. I'd call them and see when they expect to have them back in stock.

I think we created a run on them 🤣 

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Spryte

Spryte

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

I got mine a few days ago, which I think was 5 days after placing the order? If it's been 8 days now, I'd contact customer service.

ETA: Bummer, I just looked on the website and it says it's sold out, now available for preorder only. I'd call them and see when they expect to have them back in stock.

I wrote to them today. They said their third party vendor was out of stock and hopefully it will ship tomorrow. I ordered on Sep 1. They must have had a WTM run!

We actually have a handheld version (also hooga, I think) but using it is awkward, so hoping it will arrive soon.

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bookbard

bookbard

Posted
Posted

Just finished reading Other Rivers by Peter Hessler who was teaching in China when Covid broke out. The book wasn't just about Covid, but about his experiences there teaching and sending his kids to a public school there. It only covers 2020, as he had to leave after that, but it really brought me back to that time. He actually went to Wuhan and checked the place out. Definitely made me rethink a lot of things about China.

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Great, long Covid causes pain.

https://local12.com/health/health-updates/the-most-common-long-covid-symptom-just-as-new-variable-starts-making-people-sick?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0BMAABHTTDpiZxMc6QrEqtinTLMc0YZ6W9klZfzW6leYEFk_8T5RloxVwGYk2bHA_aem_Z785nsnuXcbkPlTS3tg21g

I wonder what they are treating it with 

“Doctors can treat the pain with medication but they don't have a lot of other therapies to treat the source of the pain which is long COVID.”

Edited by KSera
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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Did they say what type of pain? Joint pain, muscular, something else? I have read it twice, and don’t see what type of pain they mean, but I could be missing it.

Also wanting to know how they treat it.

(From another summary):

“Pain, including headache, joint pain and stomach pain, was the most common symptom, reported by 26.5% of participants.”

I think that’s a weird way to lump such different sources of pain all together personally. 

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mommyoffive

mommyoffive

Posted
Posted
On 9/7/2024 at 3:13 PM, BeachGal said:

Ack. Sorry. I just saw your question.

Besides avoiding spaces, wearing masks, etc., another thing I do is follow Covid in wastewater and when it starts to rise, I take NAC, NOW brand, 600-1200 mg until the levels start to fall.

Another is making sure my omega-3 index is in an optimal range. Omega 3 fatty acids tend to be too low in Western diets which means cell and mitochondria membranes, which use structural lipids as building blocks, have to use omega 6 instead and that creates a wonky membrane. I think maintaining mitochondrial health is probably very important when treating Covid before and after. That's what red/near infrared light impacts -- mitochondria.

Lots of good tips, thanks.  Can kids take NAC?

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/vaccines-may-have-eliminated-the?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1183526&post_id=148687038&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

I hope the autoimmune finding holds up, but it’s confusing for me because it’s in contrast to what I see in people with long covid. Many have new autoimmune diseases as part of their post COVID sequelae. Not sure what to make of that one. 

22 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Lots of good tips, thanks.  Can kids take NAC?

NAC has been used in many trials of treatment for BFRB in kids. 

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mommyoffive

mommyoffive

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KSera said:

I hope the autoimmune finding holds up, but it’s confusing for me because it’s in contrast to what I see in people with long covid. Many have new autoimmune diseases as part of their post COVID sequelae. Not sure what to make of that one. 

NAC has been used in many trials of treatment for BFRB in kids. 

Do you know the dosage?

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Spryte

Spryte

Posted
Posted (edited)

We were told to start with 600 once a day. I don’t know if we will move up to twice daily, but imagine we might when we see the doc soon. 
 

ETA: this is for the 13 yr old. I don’t remember what dose we used for DS when he was 8.

Edited by Spryte
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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m going to double check this, I’m pretty sure we started with 600 mg and went up to 1200, but some studies go up to 2400

Looked it up and this is a pretty common regimen. Saw specifics in a study of NAC for OCD in 8-17 year olds and they titrated up to 2700mg. Your youngest is older than 7, right?

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a gummy version of NAC?   I am looking at the pill size and my youngest could not swallow that and the next one it would be hard too.  The gummy ones on Amazon look sketchy so I am not sure a good brand that would work for my younger ones.

I was in that situation when one of mine started taking many years ago, and we had to do the powdered version. My understanding is it’s not super stable so I’m not certain I would trust the gummy version

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Spryte

Spryte

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Does anyone have a good recommendation for a gummy version of NAC?   I am looking at the pill size and my youngest could not swallow that and the next one it would be hard too.  The gummy ones on Amazon look sketchy so I am not sure a good brand that would work for my younger ones.

I don’t know if they still make it, but many years ago when we had a younger kid taking it, it was in a squeeze tube — I can’t remember if we mixed it with liquid or how it was consumed, but there might be an option like that.

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Faith-manor

Faith-manor

Posted
Posted
On 9/13/2024 at 4:28 PM, mommyoffive said:

https://www.okdoomer.io/does-this-stuff-even-work-yeah-looks-like-it-does/?ref=ok-doomer-newsletter

Thanks so much. I copied the article and am saving it.

Now that summer is waning and light levels are getting low, I am getting the family started again on Vitamin D drops. I figure that is the first one of defense, keep the D up. But I think we will also do some other things like Echinacea as natural defense, and then stock some of these others. I always cook with turmeric, but I don't think it is enough to really hit a virus so I should get a bunch and fill some gelatin caps so folks can get the larger dose easily.

I feel like it should be noted that Elderberry in raw form is toxic, and for children, can be quite dangerous. It should not be taken by anyone in raw form, cooking is necessary (no stems and leaves) and to a certain heat level for a certain time but I cannot remember the specifics. So please use reputable manufacturers of commercial elderberry supplements. Sambucol is a brand name that is safe and reliable. For children, only use supplemental elderberry in forms made specifically for children and do not exceed the dosing protocol on the bottle. My sister in law dosed my niece with it in raw form from berries she picked herself, and nearly killed her. It was so scary! In its properly detoxed form, the stuff seems pretty great as an immune booster. Poor kid. It should be noted that elder berries in raw form taste pretty bad. Her mother was running them through the blender and forcing her to drink it. Most medicinal food versions have sweeteners to make it palatable. Sometimes honey and ginger root are added.

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

https://longcovidweekly.substack.com/p/long-covid-weekly-108-lc-affecting?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=999185&post_id=148987494&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=q2z70&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff this week. @Spryte and other people with Lyme histories, one of the articles is regarding teasing out what is chronic Lyme and what is PASC (long COVID). So much symptom overlap. 

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kbutton

kbutton

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

feel like it should be noted that Elderberry in raw form is toxic, and for children, can be quite dangerous. It should not be taken by anyone in raw form, cooking is necessary (no stems and leaves) and to a certain heat level for a certain time but I cannot remember the specifics.

I don’t see this warning often enough, and I think you can buy dried elderberries pretty easily, IIRC.

It would be interesting to know if elderberry jam is strong enough to have helpful properties. My late grandpa and his partner used to make it. 

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mommyoffive

mommyoffive

Posted
Posted

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/16/health/covid-19-flu-rsv-vaccines/index.html

“You have the most protection in the first few weeks to months after vaccination, and after that, antibodies tend to wane,” Dr. Sandra Fryhofer, the American Medical Association’s liaison to the CDC’s independent vaccine advisory committee and a member of its COVID-19 vaccine workgroup, said on a recent podcast.

CDC data from last season suggests that protection drops sharply about four months after someone receives a vaccine. 

 

I mean this makes no sense that we are only getting the vaccine one time a  year.  Seems like everyone should be getting it (or at least offered it) 3 times a year. 

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Amoret

Amoret

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I am not on Twitter, so I can’t chase down where the poster got this data,

It's from here:  Our greatest asset: The final report of the IPPR Commission on Health and Prosperity. I'm not on Twitter either, but you can read his post on Thread Reader.

In other news,

“Half of Americans think they’ll never get COVID again”

 

 

Edited by Amoret
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