Quick COVID question: would getting the vax ping a positive test result?

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And many places are not doing contact tracing at all. 

I mean, you can't contact trace your way out of this sea of cases, lol. Some ridiculous number of Americans have had COVID. 

I actually think my forum data is as reliable as anything out there. It's not a random sample, but it's at least not self-selected by symptoms -- it's self-selected by belonging to this forum, which was picked in advance. So these are high quality case studies 😄 . And then seeing the range of possibilities is very illuminating. The plural of anecdote really IS data 😉. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Right, but we are saying a 7 day quarantine - that is cut in half, with testing. But still, a quarantine - with good reason. No, people are not going around (usually) feeling fine for 2 weeks and spreading it (although how would we know?), but they might go around feeling totally fine for say 6 days, spreading it on that 6th day, and then start feeling a bit snotty on the 7th, assume it is allergies, and not test until the 8th. And the number of tests is meaningless if most of them are before 5 days post exposure - they don't work really until a certain amount of time has passed. 

And it is a hardship for you and your boss - but if we say anyone with a job doesn't have to quarantine, what is the point? 

I’m not saying anyone with a job doesn’t have to quarantine; I’m saying the flippant way being off work is treated by some rubs me wrong. There is a line in which the risk of infection is dropping down to equal to where it has been all along, and at that point (if we can decide where that point lies) more days quarantining are not meaningfully helpful. So my feeling is, if the medical personnel at the testing facility were so lackadaisical that they merely suggested staying home for at least seven days was recommended when I directly asked, then the scientific truth is likely around there.   

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

I’m not saying anyone with a job doesn’t have to quarantine; I’m saying the flippant way being off work is treated by some rubs me wrong. There is a line in which the risk of infection is dropping down to equal to where it has been all along, and at that point (if we can decide where that point lies) more days quarantining are not meaningfully helpful. So my feeling is, if the medical personnel at the testing facility were so lackadaisical that they merely suggested staying home for at least seven days was recommended when I directly asked, then the scientific truth is likely around there.   

I think your plan to stay home until Wednesday is a very reasonable one, as long as you genuinely have NO symptoms. I'd treat any symptoms at all as a giant red flag, and that includes stomach aches and headaches (if you aren't prone to them normally.) 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I’m not saying anyone with a job doesn’t have to quarantine; I’m saying the flippant way being off work is treated by some rubs me wrong. There is a line in which the risk of infection is dropping down to equal to where it has been all along, and at that point (if we can decide where that point lies) more days quarantining are not meaningfully helpful. So my feeling is, if the medical personnel at the testing facility were so lackadaisical that they merely suggested staying home for at least seven days was recommended when I directly asked, then the scientific truth is likely around there.   

The CDC addressed this a few months ago.  We had a thread about it.  They said the science hadn't changed but since compliance was SO LOW they hoped shortening the quarantine to 7 days would force more people to comply.  And since many are obviously sick at 3-5 days, 7 days does lower the spread a bit, if not as well as 10 or 14 days.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think your plan to stay home until Wednesday is a very reasonable one, as long as you genuinely have NO symptoms. I'd treat any symptoms at all as a giant red flag, and that includes stomach aches and headaches (if you aren't prone to them normally.) 

Well, sure, but that is also complicated by the fact that I just got Moderna and those symptoms are frequent side-effects. I did have a headache for part of the day today, but it went away with Tylenol. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Katy said:

The CDC addressed this a few months ago.  We had a thread about it.  They said the science hadn't changed but since compliance was SO LOW they hoped shortening the quarantine to 7 days would force more people to comply.  And since many are obviously sick at 3-5 days, 7 days does lower the spread a bit, if not as well as 10 or 14 days.

I think there's actually data that people only spread it for some small number of days at the beginning. Practically no one spread it past day 8 or 9, I don't remember exactly. 

I forget where that countdown started -- I think at the exposure, but I'm not totally sure. But it's not just about compliance, if I remember correctly. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, Quill said:

I’m not saying anyone with a job doesn’t have to quarantine; I’m saying the flippant way being off work is treated by some rubs me wrong. There is a line in which the risk of infection is dropping down to equal to where it has been all along, and at that point (if we can decide where that point lies) more days quarantining are not meaningfully helpful. So my feeling is, if the medical personnel at the testing facility were so lackadaisical that they merely suggested staying home for at least seven days was recommended when I directly asked, then the scientific truth is likely around there.   

I'd agree that there is a point where the risk drops down, but I'd trust the CDC and health department guidelines on that, before random medical worker. I mean, hell, we know some medical people including doctors don't even believe in masking. 

The 7 day quarantine, with testing at day 5 or later, reduces transmission risk to about 5% or lower. They did the research on this, and that is what they found. Waiting until 10 days reduced it to 1%. 

Saying those guidelines should be followed, and your boss, like every boss, is going to have to have a plan to handle an employee following them isn't being flippant. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Quill said:

Well, sure, but that is also complicated by the fact that I just got Moderna and those symptoms are frequent side-effects. I did have a headache for part of the day today, but it went away with Tylenol. 

AAAAH!!! OK, that's just confusing and does make me wonder how in the world you're planning to know whether you have symptoms or not?? Because I've heard of vaccine reactions for a whole week after the vaccine, having followed the thread on here. 

[ktgrok]

This breaks it down into how likely you are to transmit the virus to others based on days of quarantine, and divides it between no test, PCR test, and rapid test (with the test having been within 48 hours of that day)

This is ONLY for people with no symptoms who are monitoring via a symptom checklist daily, and it still cautions to continue self monitoring for symptoms for the full 14 days, and masking around anyone during that time. 

Personally, I would not be comfortable being around someone only 7 days out, not sure if it is just your boss you have contact with at the office. 

This is from the CDC 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by ktgrok

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

AAAAH!!! OK, that's just confusing and does make me wonder how in the world you're planning to know whether you have symptoms or not?? Because I've heard of vaccine reactions for a whole week after the vaccine, having followed the thread on here. 

Seriously, Not A Number, you are making too much of it. If I feel like total shit, I probably have COVID. If I have a headache one-two days after a shot, it’s probably a vaccine side effect. That’s how I’m going to “know.” The point is, I’m not going to freakin perfectly know! IOW, exactly how it has been for the past 13 months. 

When I came home from Europe, all the flowers and trees were blooming. My throat was scratchy. My nose ran. My head and eyes hurt. Is it COVID? Is it COVID? Is it COVID? I didn’t totally know, and we didn’t have any bloody test then, either. You had to have a ventilator sticking out of your throat before they would test. But it does not appear that I had COVID. AFAIK, I never did. 

I see this the same way. I can’t be 100% totally certain I don’t have COVID, even if I quarantined for a month and test every weekend. But that’s life in a pandemic. You do the best you can and accept the margin that you can’t help. 

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

This breaks it down into how likely you are to transmit the virus to others based on days of quarantine, and divides it between no test, PCR test, and rapid test (with the test having been within 48 hours of that day)

This is from the CDC 

 

Do you know if this is the older strains or includes the new ones?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Quill said:

Seriously, Not A Number, you are making too much of it. If I feel like total shit, I probably have COVID. If I have a headache one-two days after a shot, it’s probably a vaccine side effect. That’s how I’m going to “know.” The point is, I’m not going to freakin perfectly know! IOW, exactly how it has been for the past 13 months. 

That'd be a reasonable conclusion if you weren't living with a COVID-positive person, lol. I'd be pretty freaked out if I had a headache this weekend, frankly, and I wouldn't know what to make of it. But I can see you don't agree. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Do you know if this is the older strains or includes the new ones?

It was published in December, so likely not taking into account the new strains - we didn't know enough yet about them. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

That'd be a reasonable conclusion if you weren't living with a COVID-positive person, lol. I'd be pretty freaked out if I had a headache this weekend, frankly, and I wouldn't know what to make of it. But I can see you don't agree. 

Yeah, I mean, we can't know for sure, but we can know that the odds of us potentially carrying Covid are higher if we had known unmasked exposure vs not. I mean, that's just how germs work. 

Likely, you won't get it. It is just that the consequences are so high, that "probably fine" isn't good enough from a public health standpoint. And as part of the public, we all have opinions on public health. Which sucks when it collides with your private life. I do feel horribly for you in this situation, and everyone in it. 

[Guest]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

That'd be a reasonable conclusion if you weren't living with a COVID-positive person, lol. I'd be pretty freaked out if I had a headache this weekend, frankly, and I wouldn't know what to make of it. But I can see you don't agree. 

It’s a known side-effect, especially with Moderna. And I have tested negative now on a rapid and a PCR. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Like, even if I *wanted* to freak out, what does that do for me? Of what benefit even is it? 

I mean, don’t get me wrong; I’d like to get a do-over in which dh does not go fishing. But I have misplaced my Delorean so...

”Don’t look back; you’re not going that way.” 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, it's more than possible. It's likely. Most people don't spread COVID at all -- that's the whole "dispersion factor" thing people were talking about. The median number of people someone spreads it to is 0. 

If you know this then I don’t really understand the angst I get from your other posts. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

If you know this then I don’t really understand the angst I get from your other posts. 

Because although MOST people don't spread it, the ones that do spread it are enough to have killed half a million people in the past year. Thank GOODNESS most don't, but enough do to make it incredibly dangerous, and you don't know if you are one of the ones that do, or one of the ones that doesn't. Your husband caught it from someone - they may have thought they were one of the ones that doesn't spread it to anyone. they were wrong. 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by ktgrok

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Because although MOST people don't spread it, the ones that do spread it are enough to have killed half a million people in the past year. Thank GOODNESS most don't, but enough do to make it incredibly dangerous, and you don't know if you are one of the ones that do, or one of the ones that doesn't. Your husband caught it from someone - they may have thought they were one of the ones that doesn't spread it to anyone. they were wrong. 

 

Well, so far, two out of three people in our household have not gotten it. Also, the buddy who went fishing with dh tested negative today. So, while I could be wrong and I do hope I’m not, it does not look like dh is one of the outlying super-spreaders. 

Also, let’s factor in people who don’t mask, because that is the most likely way he got infected. I mean, isn’t that the whole reason some of us were so serious about masking? Because it can take a potential spread to 3 people to a spread to zero, if only they routinely mask. 

Anyway...that’s all the fun I have time for tonight. Im going to go to bed and hope I don’t wake up for an ER trip anytime soon. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, Quill said:

If you know this then I don’t really understand the angst I get from your other posts. 

Because if your chance of currently having COVID is "only" 1/20, it's still much higher than it was before your hubby had COVID. Then it was probably something less than 1/1000. You've probably gone up two orders of magnitude in risk, and since I'm a probabilist, I think people who are relatively likely to be exposed should stay home. Not because each of them is actually likely to spread it, but because in aggregate they are, and that's how the disease spreads. 

[Shoeless]

56 minutes ago, Quill said:

About the holier-than-thou: I do get a vibe in some cases from people who do not have outside-the-home jobs. It smacks of a type of privilege. It’s as though some feel that duty to one’s job is of no importance and screw whatever mayhem it does to my attorney’s practice. That does rub me the wrong way. My attorney’s practice is not some disposable nuisance that can simply be ignored for two weeks while I sit at home perfectly well, symptom-free, and with four negative tests on my record. That is just...not right. 

Possibly, I feel that more strongly because my husband has run a small business all these years, so I understand how disruptive it is when someone cannot do their job in that setting. 

I never said your boss's practice is disposable. I asked what his plan was for when an emergency comes up with the staff.  Not having a plan to keep business running sans mayhem is dumb, especially a year into the pandemic.  There's a whole bunch of stuff he could have done to keep mayhem to a minimum, but he didn't do any of that apparently? No back up plan to work from home if someone got sick or had to quarantine?    

You seem pretty determined to go in to work no matter what anyone says.  I really hope you don't have Covid, because your "karma" will take a bigger dent from spreading Covid around than it would from fibbing to your boss about the test result. 

[wathe]

I missed almost a week of work in the fall for the world's most trivial, tiny cough.  It felt absolutely ridiculous.  Colleagues had to scramble to cover my shifts.  I don't get paid if I don't work.  My work culture is that people don't call in sick unless they are really sick.  I had to wait a day to organize a test, then wait 2-3 days for a test negative result, then wait for symptoms to be improving for 24 hours, then I could return to work as per protocol.  I felt so very ridiculous and foolish, and it was a socially/professionally very difficult decision - even though it was correct as per public health protocol.

I couldn't know that the very tiny cough I had wasn't covid.  And if it had turned out to be covid, I would have exposed other people.  And risked ending in the news like this poor guy (minus the racism angle for me).

I get it.

Your fellow boardies know you to be a caring, conscientious and thoughtful person.  I can imagine that you are probably feeling super stressed.  Your posts in this thread, to me, feel out of character.  Following current CDC quarantine guidelines for close contacts is the right thing to do.  It sucks, it's disruptive, and it feels silly to miss work when you feel perfectly fine; I get it, I really do.

Quill, this post is supposed to be supportive.  I'm having trouble with the words, forgive me.

 

[SKL]

I would just add that if I were you, Quill, I'd be working toward virtual work options.  I think it's ridiculous if your boss does not allow this, at least when someone has an actual health issue.  Yes, I know you said this is why the previous person left.  But I don't care.  Every employer needs a plan for employees' sick and family leave.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I would just add that if I were you, Quill, I'd be working toward virtual work options.  I think it's ridiculous if your boss does not allow this, at least when someone has an actual health issue.  Yes, I know you said this is why the previous person left.  But I don't care.  Every employer needs a plan for employees' sick and family leave.

I’m not saying he won’t allow it; I’m saying it is not the nature of the work I do and, as he is not a very forward-thinking technologist, he has not moved a lot of things from the old-school, paper-file way to the digital-driven way. The firm where my dd works is thoroughly digital; when the weather was inclement, she worked for days and days from home. But her boss is younger and much more savvy. 

One thing I was scheduled to do yesterday, for instance, was notarize legal documents, with the law clerk as a witness. Well, AFAIK, there is no way to notarize virtually. If there is, it’s not a system I know about or have used. The entire point of sealing a notary seal on a document is to affirm that the person “personally appeared” before me with proof of identity. 

I have a notion of going in tommorow and scooping up some (physical) files so I can at least follow up on some calls and comb medical records for a personal injury case. 

 

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, wathe said:

I missed almost a week of work in the fall for the world's most trivial, tiny cough.  It felt absolutely ridiculous.  Colleagues had to scramble to cover my shifts.  I don't get paid if I don't work.  My work culture is that people don't call in sick unless they are really sick.  I had to wait a day to organize a test, then wait 2-3 days for a test negative result, then wait for symptoms to be improving for 24 hours, then I could return to work as per protocol.  I felt so very ridiculous and foolish, and it was a socially/professionally very difficult decision - even though it was correct as per public health protocol.

I couldn't know that the very tiny cough I had wasn't covid.  And if it had turned out to be covid, I would have exposed other people.  And risked ending in the news like this poor guy (minus the racism angle for me).

I get it.

Your fellow boardies know you to be a caring, conscientious and thoughtful person.  I can imagine that you are probably feeling super stressed.  Your posts in this thread, to me, feel out of character.  Following current CDC quarantine guidelines for close contacts is the right thing to do.  It sucks, it's disruptive, and it feels silly to miss work when you feel perfectly fine; I get it, I really do.

Quill, this post is supposed to be supportive.  I'm having trouble with the words, forgive me.

 

If it were a public health edict,  I would quarantine for however long the edict said I must. It’s not, though. So we’re left with our own best judgment. 

The procedure you describe - 1 day to set up a test, 2-3 days to await a result, 1 day to ensure the tiny cough was clearing up, so 4-5 days - is less than what I am planning to do. If the last time I had any interaction with dh without masks was Wed morning, and then I got tested yesterday, have not interacted with him or anyone for Thur and Friday, do not interact with anyone for Sat and Sun, stay home Monday, retest, stay home until I get back the PCR from Mondays test, and all this time, I have no symptoms of COVID, then that is 5-6 days of quarantine. 

I feel somewhat hurt that you think my posts are out of character. 

Now I’m rather sorry I said anything. I agree with what teachingmom4 said upthread. I should not have even posted about dh. 

[Scarlett]

Good grief.  I went to bed with people piling on Quill and woke up to the same.  Sometimes y’all’s too smart for your own good.  Even if Quill is not doing it PERFECTLY accordingly to some standard she is absolutely doing it Much Better than most of this country.  She has been all along.  
 

@Quill how is your husband this morning?

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I feel somewhat hurt that you think my posts are out of character. 

Now I’m rather sorry I said anything. I agree with what teachingmom4 said upthread. I should not have even posted about dh. 

I have to say, this is why I thought stepping back and letting you think about this wasn’t a bad idea — because piling onto people only produces defensiveness, anyway, and is profoundly unhelpful except in making people feel self-righteous (which is a morally dubious feeling.)

I think you should do what you think is right. As I said, if I were you, I’d map out the relatively likely outcomes and how they’d make you feel, because I think people don’t do this enough. But again, that’s something you should do yourself, not because people are yelling at you.

If you need help from the Hive in evaluating risks, I’m sure we’ll be here. But if all that we’re doing is making you feel defensive and bad, then I don’t see the point of the thread.

I hope your DH feels better today. Please keep us updated on him.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good grief.  I went to bed with people piling on Quill and woke up to the same.  Sometimes y’all’s too smart for your own good.  Even if Quill is not doing it PERFECTLY accordingly to some standard she is absolutely doing it Much Better than most of this country.  She has been all along.  
 

@Quill how is your husband this morning?

Thanks, Scarlett. 

He feels poorly, but it’s manageable. He wanted his guitar for something to do, which I think is a pretty good sign. 

Ds and my PCR tests were negative. So I’m happy about that. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Thanks, Scarlett. 

He feels poorly, but it’s manageable. He wanted his guitar for something to do, which I think is a pretty good sign.
 

I’m glad he’s not feeling too bad!

 

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Ds and my PCR tests were negative. So I’m happy about that. 

That’s definitely good news.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I have to say, this is why I thought stepping back and letting you think about this wasn’t a bad idea — because piling onto people only produces defensiveness, anyway, and is profoundly unhelpful except in making people feel self-righteous (which is a morally dubious feeling.)

I think you should do what you think is right. As I said, if I were you, I’d map out the relatively likely outcomes and how they’d make you feel, because I think people don’t do this enough. But again, that’s something you should do yourself, not because people are yelling at you.

If you need help from the Hive in evaluating risks, I’m sure we’ll be here. But if all that we’re doing is making you feel defensive and bad, then I don’t see the point of the thread.

I hope your DH feels better today. Please keep us updated on him.

See, the bolded is what I don’t understand, though. What impression have I given that I’m *not* thinking through possible scenarios and how I will feel about those outcomes? I did this starting at 6:30 yesterday morning when I told my boss and coworker what was going down. In retrospect, I wish I had not said I suspected he got it from a bar on the fishing trip because that has already been pointed out as a point of blame, both by my boss and by people in this thread, ie., “I would be furious with dh for going to a bar!” I wish I had just said I have no idea; could have been a plumbing job. 🤷🏻‍♀️ (Which is actually true. Just seems like the bar in Trump-land is the more likely culprit.) 

You may be right that the thread has lived past its usefulness. I considered deleting all my posts; I just generally try not to do that because it feels petty and leaves an incoherent collection of posts that serve no helpful purpose for anyone. Maybe if I leave it up, people will be warned to just say nothing when they have a COVID + person in their lives, haha. 

[Not_a_Number]

28 minutes ago, Quill said:

See, the bolded is what I don’t understand, though. What impression have I given that I’m *not* thinking through possible scenarios and how I will feel about those outcomes? I did this starting at 6:30 yesterday morning when I told my boss and coworker what was going down. In retrospect, I wish I had not said I suspected he got it from a bar on the fishing trip because that has already been pointed out as a point of blame, both by my boss and by people in this thread, ie., “I would be furious with dh for going to a bar!” I wish I had just said I have no idea; could have been a plumbing job. 🤷🏻‍♀️ (Which is actually true. Just seems like the bar in Trump-land is the more likely culprit.) 

You seem overwhelmed and defensive. I would be, too, if I just discovered my DH had COVID and my boss was more frantic about me missing work than about getting COVID. So, in your situation I’d probably have been too stressed out to consider things dispassionately and would need processing time. My hunch is you do, too, and I’d really recommend taking a day away from the Hive and thinking things through. I’m not sayin you’ll “see the light” at the end of that or something — I’m saying it’s just a good idea IN GENERAL when you life gives you these kinds of lemons 🍋.

And you may very well realize that you’re totally comfortable with what you’ve decided and that you’re impervious to self-righteous people who want to tell you how to behave. Or maybe you’ll discover that there’s a piece of data that would help here. I have no idea — the whole point of taking a day or two would be to calm down and see what happens... 

 

Quote

You may be right that the thread has lived past its usefulness. I considered deleting all my posts; I just generally try not to do that because it feels petty and leaves an incoherent collection of posts that serve no helpful purpose for anyone. Maybe if I leave it up, people will be warned to just say nothing when they have a COVID + person in their lives, haha. 

I’ve certainly done that before when I’ve felt piled on, although honestly, when something has touched a nerve, it tends to reverberate in my head anyway. When people feel comfortable in their decisions, they are less likely to be bothered by the responses.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Katy]

20 minutes ago, Quill said:

 What impression have I given that I’m *not* thinking through possible scenarios and how I will feel about those outcomes? 

I think it was the idea that it feels ridiculous to quarantine for a week when you’re not feeling sick that set people off.  Yes, it’s a different ethos than the hard working are used to. It’s also a different disease. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I think it was the idea that it feels ridiculous to quarantine for a week when you’re not feeling sick that set people off.  Yes, it’s a different ethos than the hard working are used to. It’s also a different disease. 

I mean, she’s heard people say that 100 times on this thread and she feels differently. There’s NO POINT repeating the same thing and hoping to get a different outcome. I think we should give her some space to make her own decisions. At the end of the day, we all think for ourselves. 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, she’s heard people say that 100 times on this thread and she feels differently. There’s NO POINT repeating the same thing and hoping to get a different outcome. I think we should give her some space to make her own decisions. At the end of the day, we all think for ourselves. 

Yes, but I figured from the way she made her DD quarantine just from traveling she may not have even been aware she said it was ridiculous to not work.  It was clearly perceived boss pressure, not her own ethics.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

It was clearly perceived boss pressure, not her own ethics.  

Well, for what it’s worth, I do think that pressure and the feeling she’d be letting people down is coloring things, but again, that’s hers to disentangle! And I can see how ridiculous it would feel to miss 2 weeks, feel like you’ve abandoned the firm and let people down, and never even get COVID. So I totally understand where she’s coming from.

[Not_a_Number]

34 minutes ago, Quill said:

I wish I had not said I suspected he got it from a bar on the fishing trip because that has already been pointed out as a point of blame, both by my boss and by people in this thread, ie., “I would be furious with dh for going to a bar!”

For what it’s worth, I don’t blame you for that at all. You’ve posted about your DH’s attitudes before, and I know you have no way at all to control them. It really sucks that he caught it and I have nothing but sympathy for you. And I really hope he doesn’t get really sick.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Yes, but I figured from the way she made her DD quarantine just from traveling she may not have even been aware she said it was ridiculous to not work.  It was clearly perceived boss pressure, not her own ethics.  

My daughter had no job, no obligations. There was nothing to compel her to leave her bedroom. She had zero obligations. 

I also quarantined when I got home from Europe, though not as stringently. But I had no job. The only things I was cancelling were birthday parties, coffee dates and book club. 

I am aware that I said it feels ridiculous to not work if I am still fine by Monday or Tuesday of next week. I still think that. By then, the likelihood that I am actually sick and don’t know it and will then get my boss, the law clerk, and several clients sick does feel completely absurd. I perceive the risk of that as equal to the risk I have accepted in my « risk budget » to this point, for example, when ds and his gf come home from college and have dinner here. There’s a small risk they are positive and don’t know it. But the only way to eliminate that risk is to lock myself in my bedroom for a year. 

 

 

[ktgrok]

 

2 hours ago, Quill said:

If it were a public health edict,  I would quarantine for however long the edict said I must. It’s not, though. So we’re left with our own best judgment. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this? The CDC has clear guidelines of who can quarantine. That doesn't count ? Maryland health department does say to quarantine and limit contact with people for the 7-10 days. No, you won't go to jail if you don't. But you keep implying that those guidelines are not realistic, or based in science, or really needed - and to hear someone who has been very much pro science and limiting spread as much as possible say the quarantine guidelines are not really needed is a bit shocking, honestly. Especially since you clarified that your boss wasn't pressuring you to come in. 

And you keep talking about getting a negative test already, but depending on when you were exposed it is likely too soon for them to be accurate. I REALLY hope you don't get it. It is very likely you won't. But to hear you say you will determine your own quarantine period rather than rely on the guidelines from the CDC and experts is concerning. That just leads to MORE people out of work. 

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think it was the idea that it feels ridiculous to quarantine for a week when you’re not feeling sick that set people off.  Yes, it’s a different ethos than the hard working are used to. It’s also a different disease. 

Yup. It really makes it hard and it is why we don't have a handle on this thing yet. 

[Not_a_Number]

Y’all aren’t helping. You really aren’t. This is how people dig in and stop thinking entirely. We’ve now proceeded to tell a careful person that “people like her” is why things spread. That’s NOT going to make her behave differently, lol. It’ll just make her mad. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

 

I am aware that I said it feels ridiculous to not work if I am still fine by Monday or Tuesday of next week. I still think that. By then, the likelihood that I am actually sick and don’t know it and will then get my boss, the law clerk, and several clients sick does feel completely absurd. I perceive the risk of that as equal to the risk I have accepted in my « risk budget » to this point, for example, when ds and his gf come home from college and have dinner here. There’s a small risk they are positive and don’t know it. But the only way to eliminate that risk is to lock myself in my bedroom for a year. 

 

 

You may percieve it that way, but that's not what the science says.

Put it this way, would you still be okay with DS and his gf coming over for dinner if you KNEW they had close contact, unmasked, with someone who was positive less a week of arriving? Would that change your feelings on how safe it was to have them over? 

No one is saying lock yourself in a room for a year or get risk down to zero. But there is actual science and guidelines on what the risk is various days after exposure. And the risk difference is significant. 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, for what it’s worth, I do think that pressure and the feeling she’d be letting people down is coloring things, but again, that’s hers to disentangle! And I can see how ridiculous it would feel to miss 2 weeks, feel like you’ve abandoned the firm and let people down, and never even get COVID. So I totally understand where she’s coming from.

She did say it was “bat sh!t crazy” to not go into work for one week, despite known exposure. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Katy said:

She did say it was “bat sh!t crazy” to not go into work for one week, despite known exposure. 

Right. Because she feels stressed out and angry about the situation and like she’s letting her boss down!!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Y’all aren’t helping. You really aren’t. This is how people dig in and stop thinking entirely. We’ve now proceeded to tell a careful person that “people like her” is why things spread. That’s NOT going to make her behave differently, lol. It’ll just make her mad. 

I know she is a careful person.

But I Think it is important to repeat that even busy, careful people should follow the science on this. 

At this point, she seems to be saying she will be quarantining for 7ish days, having a negative test, etc. That lowers the risk of spreading it a lot. That's mostly following the guidelines. So I don't know why she's insistent the rest of us want her to stay home for 2 weeks or whatever. We just want her to stay home the 7 day minimum established by the infection experts, and not advocate for setting your own timeline based on how you feel or whatever. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Right. Because she feels stressed out and angry about the situation and like she’s letting her boss down!!

Well, hopefully anyone reading this that ends up in a similar situation is hearing that the majority say it is more important to follow health guidelines than worry about her boss, given the pandemic. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Good grief.  I went to bed with people piling on Quill and woke up to the same.  Sometimes y’all’s too smart for your own good.  Even if Quill is not doing it PERFECTLY accordingly to some standard she is absolutely doing it Much Better than most of this country.  She has been all along.  
 

@Quill how is your husband this morning?

Amen

[TexasProud]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Well, hopefully anyone reading this that ends up in a similar situation is hearing that the majority say it is more important to follow health guidelines than worry about her boss, given the pandemic. 

This board is MUCH more conservative than the rest of the world. What Quill is doing is MUCH more conservative than the rest of the world. This board is not the ultimate authority.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

I know she is a careful person.

But I Think it is important to repeat that even busy, careful people should follow the science on this. 

At this point, she seems to be saying she will be quarantining for 7ish days, having a negative test, etc. That lowers the risk of spreading it a lot. That's mostly following the guidelines. So I don't know why she's insistent the rest of us want her to stay home for 2 weeks or whatever. We just want her to stay home the 7 day minimum established by the infection experts, and not advocate for setting your own timeline based on how you feel or whatever. 

What, do you think I disagree with you? I agree with you. But it’s not our life and we can’t make her, plus the social pressures are on her and not on us. This is a new job for her. It probably feels at least a bit precarious. She’s invested in doing a great job, given how long she’s been out of the work force. I get the emotions here. I really do.

[TexasProud]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Y’all aren’t helping. You really aren’t. This is how people dig in and stop thinking entirely. We’ve now proceeded to tell a careful person that “people like her” is why things spread. That’s NOT going to make her behave differently, lol. It’ll just make her mad. 

Yep. Totally agree.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this? The CDC has clear guidelines of who can quarantine. That doesn't count ? Maryland health department does say to quarantine and limit contact with people for the 7-10 days. No, you won't go to jail if you don't. But you keep implying that those guidelines are not realistic, or based in science, or really needed - and to hear someone who has been very much pro science and limiting spread as much as possible say the quarantine guidelines are not really needed is a bit shocking, honestly. Especially since you clarified that your boss wasn't pressuring you to come in. 

And you keep talking about getting a negative test already, but depending on when you were exposed it is likely too soon for them to be accurate. I REALLY hope you don't get it. It is very likely you won't. But to hear you say you will determine your own quarantine period rather than rely on the guidelines from the CDC and experts is concerning. That just leads to MORE people out of work. 

Yup. It really makes it hard and it is why we don't have a handle on this thing yet. 

The poster I was replying to is Canadian. I don’t purport to know a ton about the culture there, but I’m confident they don’t have the same, “But, my rights!” people affecting mandates like legal requirement to quarantine for 10 days, or 14 days, or whatever. So, I *think*, in Canada, they have a real and true health dept. MANDATE to quarantine if someone close to you is positive. We do not have that here. There are suggestions, but they are vague and not even stridently discussed. 

It’s like how I said early on that I’m glad I live in a state where the governor mandated masking, because, even while we have out buttheads who quibble with the legality of a mask mandate, in practice, 99.9% of the people I encounter in every public indoor setting are masked. Everyone wears a mask around here, especially in the “liberal” counties. 

So what I’m saying is, if it were a MANDATE - someone tested positive in your household, you are required by law to all stay entirely at home until 10 days (or 14, whatever) is up, then I would abide by that. Just like the mask law, I would have an “out” with my boss where I could say, “I’m sorry, it sucks and I feel ridiculous, but this is the mandate so I can’t break the law...” But we don’t have that, so I’m doing the next-best thing. It’s only because of his wife, who is in a medical field of work, that I got this much graciousness. Without her, he would be saying, “You tested negative on both tests and feel fine; what’s the issue?” 

[Spryte]

Quill, I popped in just to see if there’s an update on your DH - glad to see he was looking for something to do.  That has to be a good sign!  I hope he feels better soon.

I know you are a careful person, and juggling living and working with people with different attitudes.  I really laughed at what you said about (paraphrasing) white guys with guns yelling about “muh rights!  Don’t tread on me!” (And waving that flag to boot).  I live there, too.  It’s like walking a tightrope. 

I thought you had a plan that worked?  I was surprised to see this thread still going. Testing again on Sunday and going back to work after those results come back negative?  Wouldn’t that be long enough anyway?  Am I dreaming that up?

Ten members of my extended family were recently exposed (one person’s coworker’s wife was positive) at a family gathering.  (Sigh.  I know.) 4 were positive, but the 6 who were not had their quarantine period significantly shortened based on negative testing on certain dates from exposure.  So I thought your plan to test again and go back after that seemed pretty solid.

Then again, I’ve been ill, and my reading of this thread has been sporadic and maybe I’m misremembering something.

Mostly, I just wanted to say I hope your DH is doing well today.  You will be in my thoughts the next few days, and hopefully no symptoms.  I’m still feeling kind of flabbergasted that this all happened the day after your first shot.  That really sucks.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, hopefully anyone reading this that ends up in a similar situation is hearing that the majority say it is more important to follow health guidelines than worry about her boss, given the pandemic. 

Or maybe anyone reading this will make sure to not post on this board, since they can tell they’ll be piled on. I’ve definitely avoided posting about things I know I’m in the minority on.