Foreign language

[Swimmer1112]

What language are your kiddos learning in high school, for those that haven’t learned a second language prior? 

My son is entering high school so we need to think about 2-3 years of language learning. Learning a language is not something he’s ever thought about nor really has much interest at this point.  

I’m thinking of talking about the possibilities of Spanish, Latin, Sign Language. Which would you think is best of those 3. He’s a math, computer science kid right now. No idea what his future plans are. He homeschools so not sure where he’d take it.

[jplain]

If he has no preference, I’d go with Spanish.  ASL is not universally accepted for college entrance purposes.  Spanish is easier (grammatically) than Latin, and it is so easy to find help for Spanish online: YouTube has tons of short topical videos created by Spanish teachers.

[wendyroo]

5 minutes ago, jplain said:

If he has no preference, I’d go with Spanish.  ASL is not universally accepted for college entrance purposes.  Spanish is easier (grammatically) than Latin, and it is so easy to find help for Spanish online: YouTube has tons of short topical videos created by Spanish teachers.

I mostly agree.

OTOH, Spanish has a much larger conversational aspect than Latin. Latin is mostly memorization and logic, which might appeal to a "math, computer science kid".

I think Spanish and Latin would both be good choices, with lots of available resources; the student just needs to consider what aspects of language learning might appeal to him or be most difficult.

[Lori D.]

DS#1 = Spanish
DS#2 = ASL (American Sign Language)

Neither DS had any interest in learning foreign languages all the way through K-12, and were doing foreign language in high school for the "box checking." (DS#2 unexpectedly became so interested in ASL that after high school, he attended the community college and completed 2 years of the 3-year Associate's degree in Interpretation for the Deaf -- he then decided he wanted to do something else as a career.)

Both DSs did their foreign language as dual enrollment (DE) at the local community college, so it counted as both the required credits for admission to college AND as college credits toward Foreign Language towards a 4-year degree -- all knocked out in advance of college and at a much cheaper price, in smaller classes taught by actual instructors experienced in teaching (rather than grad students/teaching assistants). Both DSs did foreign language as DE with no prior foreign language exposure, and did great -- but the community college had some very good instructors for both Spanish and ASL.

Of the 3 languages you are choosing from, some ideas of pros and cons:

Spanish:
- probably the easiest to learn, with many similarities in roots for vocabulary, making word-learning easier 
- spelled phonetically
- actually useful for conversation
- universally accepted for admission to college
- offered at just about every community college and 4-year university, should your DS want or need to continue Foreign Language into college (i.e., if his future degree requires college-level foreign language credits) 

ASL:
- easier to learn for many students who struggle to learn traditional foreign languages
- accepted by many (but not all) colleges as fulfilling the foreign language credit
- actually useful for conversation
- a lot of overlap with English, which can make it easier to learn
- however, while many words overlap with English and mean the same thing, you have to learn each unique sign for each word (rather than as with Spanish, having some similarities in spelling due to shared roots)
- and ASL has its own unique grammar structure that is different from English
- includes some additional grammatical elements that are unique to being a visually "performed" language, such as eye gaze and placement of signing in relationship to the body

Latin:
- can be somewhat easy to learn as there is some overlap with English (many English words come from Latin)
- the root words of Latin can be helpful with future scientific and medical vocabulary, if going into one of those types of fields
- not used in conversation
- Latin has "cases" and "declensions" that are not part of English grammar, which can be hard for some students to grasp
- as far as I know, Latin is accepted by all colleges (except the US Air Force Academy) for admission requirements 
- if a college requires Modern Languages, and you do Latin as DE, the credits may not be accepted as fulfilling the degree requirements for foreign language

[stripe]

Depends what he wants to do with it or what appeals to him. If you feel strongly about Latin, go for it, but it’s more conceptual than practical. It also isn’t really much of a spoken language. That may or may not be appealing. Various of my kids have so far used Homeschool Spanish Academy, a local Chinese American weekend school, study with my husband of his heritage language (which is neither Spanish nor Chinese), and self-study for informal learning. I’ve seen heritage organizations for French and German in some areas of the country as well, so this may be an option for you.

Edited March 7, 2021 by stripe

[alisha]

I have a son entering high school next year, so I did some research and put together some information to help him choose. He has no idea what he wants to do with his life, and is not that interested in learning another language. 

Here's what I came up with from reading other posts on this forum, as well as doing lots of searches for help-keep in mind this was just a rough gathering of information that I thought would help MY son: 

How to Choose a Foreign Language:

1.      What are your Career Goals?
     a.      Spanish: widely spoken in US; Good for medicine or social work or others who want to assist people who can’t speak English.
     b.      French: Parts of Canada speak French, as well as the UN and many international companies, so business
     c.      German: Scientific and technology innovations, banking
     d.      Latin: Helps you if you need to work with French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or Romanian in the future.
     e.      Hebrew or Arabic or Greek: Bible related careers

2.      Do any of my hobbies relate to a Foreign Language?
     a.      Favorite type of food?
     b.      Cooking in general-French or Italian
     c.      Reading-If you study that in College, you could go with Spanish books, French books, or many others

3.      Where do I want to travel in the future?

4.      Which language SOUNDS nice? Search youtube for people talking in some languages

5.      Do I know anyone who speaks any other language? Would I want to choose their language in order to practice it with them?

6.      How similar do I want it to be to English?
     a.      Not similar-Mandarin, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Greek
     b.      Sort of similar-Spanish, French, German
     c.      Sort of similar but fewer spoken: Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, Irish
     d.      Very Similar-American Sign Language

7.      Do I want lots of opportunities to speak this language?
     a.      Yes: Spanish, ASL or French would be your best options
     b.      No: one of the others

8.      How much work are you willing to put in to it?
     a.      Lots: Then possibly consider something with a different alphabet (Asian or Russian, Greek or Hebrew)
     b.      Minimal: Then stick to the Roman alphabet (Spanish, French, German, Italian)

[stripe]

Your list of thought provoking questions is a great idea. I actually think many of them are in play than your list suggest. Many business careers involve Asia in some capacity, and many other international activities involve those other languages. I do not think learning Arabic is limited to Bible related careers, unless this means missionary activity towards Arab non-Christians (i.e. Muslims) or jobs in a church in an Arab country. (Mike Pence’s daughter and her husband both studied Arabic, and neither of them is a missionary.) Greek would be more useful for a career that involves studying the Bible. French is good for international careers.  I also don’t think a language has to be useful. Or things change. When I began studying a certain language in HS, everyone thought it was ridiculous and not at all useful because it wasn’t Spanish. No one thinks that anymore. 

[Swimmer1112]

1 hour ago, alisha said:

I have a son entering high school next year, so I did some research and put together some information to help him choose. He has no idea what he wants to do with his life, and is not that interested in learning another language. 

Here's what I came up with from reading other posts on this forum, as well as doing lots of searches for help-keep in mind this was just a rough gathering of information that I thought would help MY son: 

How to Choose a Foreign Language:

1.      What are your Career Goals?
     a.      Spanish: widely spoken in US; Good for medicine or social work or others who want to assist people who can’t speak English.
     b.      French: Parts of Canada speak French, as well as the UN and many international companies, so business
     c.      German: Scientific and technology innovations, banking
     d.      Latin: Helps you if you need to work with French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese or Romanian in the future.
     e.      Hebrew or Arabic or Greek: Bible related careers

2.      Do any of my hobbies relate to a Foreign Language?
     a.      Favorite type of food?
     b.      Cooking in general-French or Italian
     c.      Reading-If you study that in College, you could go with Spanish books, French books, or many others

3.      Where do I want to travel in the future?

4.      Which language SOUNDS nice? Search youtube for people talking in some languages

5.      Do I know anyone who speaks any other language? Would I want to choose their language in order to practice it with them?

6.      How similar do I want it to be to English?
     a.      Not similar-Mandarin, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Hindi, Greek
     b.      Sort of similar-Spanish, French, German
     c.      Sort of similar but fewer spoken: Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, Irish
     d.      Very Similar-American Sign Language

7.      Do I want lots of opportunities to speak this language?
     a.      Yes: Spanish, ASL or French would be your best options
     b.      No: one of the others

8.      How much work are you willing to put in to it?
     a.      Lots: Then possibly consider something with a different alphabet (Asian or Russian, Greek or Hebrew)
     b.      Minimal: Then stick to the Roman alphabet (Spanish, French, German, Italian)

Great idea, I will show this to my son, we are going to discuss this and he will choose.

[Loowit]

My oldest studied three years of Irish and a year of French.  She has an email pal in Ireland (relative) who she converses with still.

My middle studied Kione Greek, but he started that in elementary, so it was a continuation.  He also did a year and a half of German.

My youngest is studying Spanish. He also studied Kione Greek with his brother but stopped before he hit high school age..

I let them choose what they wanted to study.  I think the idea of asking questions to figure out what might be the best to study is a great idea.  I took French because it was the first time my high school offered something other than Spanish, and I thought it sounded fun.  Probably not the best reason to pick a language to study.  I remember very little of it, because I never kept up with it.

[Swimmer1112]

6 minutes ago, Loowit said:

I let them choose what they wanted to study.  I think the idea of asking questions to figure out what might be the best to study is a great idea.  I took French because it was the first time my high school offered something other than Spanish, and I thought it sounded fun.  Probably not the best reason to pick a language to study.  I remember very little of it, because I never kept up with it.

I took French because a friend was also taking it, but she ended up dropping it. It was not the best choice, I really didn’t like the language. So I just want my kid to choose a language for the right reason, since it will be a 2-3 year commitment.

[Roadrunner]

I see a ton of job ads that require Spanish in CA.

 

 

[Arcadia]

13 hours ago, Marie.Sd said:

 He’s a math, computer science kid right now.

Both of mine are thinking of majoring in computer science and they are taking dual enrollment Japanese. My DS16 chose Japanese because he can always learn Spanish by immersion later. He listens to Japanese songs and watch Japanese MTVs on YouTube. My husband who deals more with hardware than software uses Chinese as often as English for conference calls.

11 hours ago, stripe said:

Depends what he wants to do with it or what appeals to him. If you feel strongly about Latin, go for it, but it’s more conceptual than practical. It also isn’t really much of a spoken language. That may or may not be appealing. Various of my kids have so far used Homeschool Spanish Academy, a local Chinese American weekend school, study with my husband of his heritage language (which is neither Spanish nor Chinese), and self-study for informal learning. I’ve seen heritage organizations for French and German in some areas of the country as well, so this may be an option for you.

My kids did Chinese and German that way but as non-credit subjects. In our case, Chinese is our heritage language and German is what my husband and I took for foreign language studies. DS16 is also self studying Korean.

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I see a ton of job ads that require Spanish in CA.

My infusion nurses told me that their employer would pay for their Spanish lessons if they want to take up that offer.

[stripe]

About French, I would just like to say that within the US, I personally rarely run into either a person from France or a Québécois(e). Most French speaking people I run into are West Africans (who are usually multilingual), and then there are people like older Armenians who seem to speak six different languages where English is the weakest, so if you can speak Arabic, French, or whatever else they might speak, you may do better. Whereas most people imagine using French to order pastries at a cafe along the Seine. 

[Swimmer1112]

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My kids did Chinese and German that way but as non-credit subjects. In our case, Chinese is our heritage language and German is what my husband and I took for foreign language studies.

My son also knows some Chinese, it’s part of our heritage as well, my husband is Norwegian and ds knows a little Norwegian too. But I think one if the reason’s ds is not interested in learning a language is because of a speech issue. He has done speech therapy and still has issues with certain sounds. This one of the reasons I thought ASL or Latin would be easier for him. 🤷‍♀️

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Marie.Sd said:

My son also knows some Chinese, it’s part of our heritage as well, my husband is Norwegian and ds knows a little Norwegian too. But I think one if the reason’s ds is not interested in learning a language is because of a speech issue. He has done speech therapy and still has issues with certain sounds. This one of the reasons I thought ASL or Latin would be easier for him. 🤷‍♀️

He can have accommodations for speech issues if he would like to take up Spanish. My do not like to talk DS16 likes to learn the basic signs of ASL. He can sign even if the environment is too loud for me to hear him properly. He mostly sign about food 🤣 since he was a toddler. 
 

My engineering internship decades ago was with Det Norske Veritas ,a Norwegian MNC headquartered in Oslo. I had to translate Chinese tender documents about offshore oil rigs sent by a Taiwanese client into English. 

[theelfqueen]

Spanish is useful and there are a LOT of resources that are widely available and inexpensive. 

My kids studied Oldest - German (in the public high school)... Middle - Russian (because I felt able to teach it and he had some interest )...  youngest - Japanese in HS and 2 years of Koine in Middle school. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by theelfqueen