Pros and Cons of math acceleration?

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

What he wants is to be on the Algebra in sixth grade track.  He wants that badge of honor of being in the top group. He wants to take Algebra in 6th and Geometry in 7th.  My concern is exactly what @wendyroo raises, that once he is on that path, it’s hard to get off, and he could easily end up in a place where staying on the track involves more work than he’s willing to put in.

Yeah, this plan would give me pause for the same reason. 

 

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I did speak to the principal of the private school.  She suggested just having him do PreA with the 7th graders or Algebra with the 8th graders, but then he’d miss whatever his class is doing then.  I am not sure that’s the answer.  She also didn’t say no to the idea of him doing a separate curriculum, just that she needs time to make a decision.

I wouldn't worry much about missing what the 6th graders are doing, but I don't love the idea of being with older kids at this age. 

Hmmm. This is a bit of a conundrum, I have to say. Could you talk to him more about how he's feeling about it all? Is this ONLY important because of the competition? Does he actually enjoy the math? Does he understand that it means he'll have to take MORE math in high school, or does that feel impossibly far away? How does that prospect make him feel? 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, EKS said:

Note there is no need to take multivariable calculus in high school even if you're ready for it.

I know everyone does it before, but I think it makes WAY more sense to take that after linear algebra... 

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, this plan would give me pause for the same reason. 

 

I wouldn't worry much about missing what the 6th graders are doing, but I don't love the idea of being with older kids at this age. 

Hmmm. This is a bit of a conundrum, I have to say. Could you talk to him more about how he's feeling about it all? Is this ONLY important because of the competition? Does he actually enjoy the math? Does he understand that it means he'll have to take MORE math in high school, or does that feel impossibly far away? How does that prospect make him feel? 

To be clear when I am saying he would be missing what the sixth graders are doing I mean English or another subject.  I am not comfortable with that for him.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

To be clear when I am saying he would be missing what the sixth graders are doing I mean English or another subject.  I am not comfortable with that for him.  

Oh, right. I guess the math isn't at the same time. I didn't think of that, sorry. Yeah, that sounds suboptimal. 

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I know everyone does it before, but I think it makes WAY more sense to take that after linear algebra... 

This is the kind of thing that’s a choice some places.  It’s unlikely that he would have a huge array of options. 

It’s hard to say exactly what his options would be because we have school choice here, and things could also change but it would be a couple options, not a ton.

[Drama Llama]

I think it’s likely that we will say that he needs to choose, that if he chooses private he needs to accept their curriculum.  

It’s also possible that the decision as to which school he attends will be made for non math reasons, like money, or covid.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

This is the kind of thing that’s a choice some places.  It’s unlikely that he would have a huge array of options. 

It’s hard to say exactly what his options would be because we have school choice here, and things could also change but it would be a couple options, not a ton.

I would think that stats and another class, whatever it may be, would be good math choices for the last few years, if that's how it goes. 

But I do worry about putting a kid who isn't super interested on a track you can't get off of. That's never how I like to accelerate kids... on the other hand he wants it... what to do... 

[Drama Llama]

So, I guess one question I have is, if he does calculus in 10th and then goes on to stats etc. . . What would freshman year in college be like if he hasn’t done calc for two years?  

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, I guess one question I have is, if he does calculus in 10th and then goes on to stats etc. . . What would freshman year in college be like if he hasn’t done calc for two years?  

Fine, as long as he can do algebra. But he'd need to be actually solid on algebra. And I'd probably want him to review algebra (not calculus) the summer before college whatever he happens to do in high school. A lot of the kids in my classes could have really used that review. 

[Clemsondana]

I wouldn't worry about mixed grades, necessarily - all of our co-op classes are mixed grades, and in a small school I could see everybody knowing everybody and it would be fine.  If he plays ball for the school, he'd probably be on a mixed-grade middle school team so he might know the kids.  Missing other classes could be OK, depending on what it is, or it could be a big problem - he could be missing PE or he could be missing English. 

I'll also add that, while you can't predict the future, don't underestimate the amount of time that sports take as a kid gets older.  My kid plays one sport on the public school team and they condition or practice 4-5 days/week, 1-2.5 hrs/day, all school year.  Kid also plays another sport on a homeschool team and they practice or play a couple of days/week.  There are days that kid spends 5 hrs on sports, with one straight after school and the other in the evening.  I only mention it because you talked about your kid being athletic - it's something to consider when looking at taking really challenging classes all 4 years of high school.  

I said earlier that I'd let your son try preA and see how it went, but as another option is there a chance that he'd consider competition math to be comparably challenging and high level?  If cousin was doing algebra and your kid was doing some other thing that cousin had never heard of, would they both think of themselves as doing hard stuff since the other doesn't know how to do what they're doing?  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Clemsondana said:

I said earlier that I'd let your son try preA and see how it went, but as another option is there a chance that he'd consider competition math to be comparably challenging and high level?  If cousin was doing algebra and your kid was doing some other thing that cousin had never heard of, would they both think of themselves as doing hard stuff since the other doesn't know how to do what they're doing?  

That's a good thought, assuming the cousin doesn't do contest math... 

[Drama Llama]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's a good thought, assuming the cousin doesn't do contest math... 

Then cousin’s parents would put cousin in contest math.  I can guarantee that would be the outcome.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Then cousin’s parents would put cousin in contest math.  I can guarantee that would be the outcome.  

Lol. Then maybe don't do that. The cousin sounds like she has enough pressure on her as is 😛 . 

Does she actually like math, out of curiosity? 

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Lol. Then maybe don't do that. The cousin sounds like she has enough pressure on her as is 😛 . 

Does she actually like math, out of curiosity? 

In my opinion, if they backed off she might find out.  

[Clemsondana]

That level of competitiveness is hard to deal with.  Eventually time becomes the limiting factor - your kid probably isn't going to want to come home from ball practice and do math competitions and also advanced classwork.  Their kid is going to come home and do homework and competition math practice and be done...I mean, you can only do so many things in a day and there are only so many hours after school, but it can take a lot of angst until it settles out exactly how the kids will want to spend that time.  It sounds like it would be healthier if they chose different things, but that doesn't redirect them from the math issue that you have in front of you right now.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

In my opinion, if they backed off she might find out.  

Hah. Well, how does she feel about it now? 😄 Like it's all too much? 

[Lori D.]

 

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

Maybe. But I think his private school only goes to 8th grade.

And if they can't accommodate a 6th grader taking either pre-algebra or algebra, then they probably also can't let a 7th grader take geometry. So if he gets frustrated with online learning mostly on his own during or after school, then his only other 7th grade options may be Math 7 or pre-algebra.

Same issue in 8th grade because it sounds like he will be two years out of synch with the school offerings (I can't even really fathom a school not even offering pre-algebra in 6th grade).

And then he will transfer to a high school and have to choose between repeating a class he has already taken or moving on to the next class whether he is completely ready or not.

 

51 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

... On the other hand, being an extroverted athletic ten year old on lockdown during a pandemic is no fun, and if this is something that he thinks he would enjoy then I hate to say no to it.  In addition, for the sake of diplomacy, having two kids who are the same age, very similar abilities and are together for much of the day, and forcing math on one and then not having the other do math could get awkward. 

Adding on to @wendyroo's helpful long-range view, and also adding thoughts on the wholistic view of decision making with this particular child...

Not that we want to hold back an accelerated student, BUT... I was absolutely thinking of the potential pain to older DS having much younger brother working at the same level of math. Over the years, I've seen a lot of threads with type of situation and is a real problem, even with the most gracious of children.

Also, I'm thinking of post-covid with this particularly extroverted high energy child -- if he has to do the Algebra 1 in a special after school way, is that still going to be his first choice once the pandemic lifts and he's able to do all those after school extracurriculars that he's been chafing to do for the past year?

Of course, you could make the decision to NOT go-ahead with Algebra 1 at that time, but there is a lot of extra stress on YOU the full-time working parents, to do the big push now for 8 months to get him up to speed through Pre-Algebra 

And, I'm thinking of what impact that the extra time/mental energy that would be needed for accelerating the math now to be ready for Algebra 1 later, might have on this family and their unique situation of being in the thick of dealing with grief for the loss of a beloved immediate family member just a few months ago. And that after more than a year of the physical / emotional stress on everyone of intensive home care and multiple hospital visits. And hopefully it will be years away, but what if the health situation of the beloved and close elderly (over 90yo) granddad's suddenly and unexpectedly changes? 

Again, I know we don't make decisions based on vague "what *might happens", but I do think these are some pretty big, specific extenuating circumstances that really do need to be at least considered in making a decision about accelerating this particular child in math, as these potential circumstances would have an impact on the whole family.

Wishing you all the BEST as you sort through your options and come to a decision. Warmly, Lori D.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Lori D.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Lori D. said:

Not that we want to hold back an accelerated student, BUT... I was absolutely thinking of the potential pain to older DS having much younger brother working at the same level of math. Over the years, I've seen a lot of threads with type of situation and is a real problem, even with the most gracious of children.

I would guess that holding this child back for this reason would lead to a whole lot of bitterness... I understand what you're saying, but that seems unfair. 

[wendyroo]

2 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Again, I know we don't make decisions based on vague "what *might happens", but I do think these are some pretty big, specific extenuating circumstances that really do need to be at least considered in making a decision about accelerating this particular child in math, as these potential circumstances would have an impact on the whole family.

Wishing you all the BEST as you sort through your options and come to a decision. Warmly, Lori D.

I agree. And I keep thinking about this kiddo starting an algebra class in the fall that is a stretch for him and requires consistent, dedicated effort to stay on top of, and then a couple months later having to navigate some very sad one year anniversaries. 

[EKS]

59 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

What would freshman year in college be like if he hasn’t done calc for two years?

My son is retaking Calc I and II in college and doing great.  Great decision to retake--I'm a firm believer in revisiting math you think you know periodically just to see if it looks any different.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

My son is retaking Calc I and II in college and doing great.  Great decision to retake--I'm a firm believer in revisiting math you think you know periodically just to see if it looks any different.  

Plus, college level calculus tends to be harder than high school level. Way more proof-y 😉 . 

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

My son is retaking Calc I and II in college and doing great.  Great decision to retake--I'm a firm believer in revisiting math you think you know periodically just to see if it looks any different.  

Yeah I think revisiting is great.  I just feel like if he’s probably going to start at Calc 1 in freshman year then I’m not sure what benefit he got from being on the calc in 10th vs 11th track. I get that taking calc in high school will make freshman year more manageable.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

Yeah I think revisiting is great.  I just feel like if he’s probably going to start at Calc 1 in freshman year then I’m not sure what benefit he got from being on the calc in 10th vs 11th track. I get that taking calc in high school will make freshman year more manageable.  

I think people have listed the benefits. You have access to more sciences. You can take more math. You have more time to solidify concepts. 

Basically, if he's actually ready and actually does well with this track, then this makes the STEM career path easier. But that's if he's actually ready and is actually interested and if he doesn't burn out. And of course, you can't know whether he's interested in a STEM career path right now. 

There aren't super easy answers here. There are both pros and cons. You don't need to think there are no pros to decide this isn't the right path. 

[Terabith]

52 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

 

 

Adding on to @wendyroo's helpful long-range view, and also adding thoughts on the wholistic view of decision making with this particular child...

Not that we want to hold back an accelerated student, BUT... I was absolutely thinking of the potential pain to older DS having much younger brother working at the same level of math. Over the years, I've seen a lot of threads with type of situation and is a real problem, even with the most gracious of children.

Also, I'm thinking of post-covid with this particularly extroverted high energy child -- if he has to do the Algebra 1 in a special after school way, is that still going to be his first choice once the pandemic lifts and he's able to do all those after school extracurriculars that he's been chafing to do for the past year?

Of course, you could make the decision to NOT go-ahead with Algebra 1 at that time, but there is a lot of extra stress on YOU the full-time working parents, to do the big push now for 8 months to get him up to speed through Pre-Algebra 

And, I'm thinking of what impact that the extra time/mental energy that would be needed for accelerating the math now to be ready for Algebra 1 later, might have on this family and their unique situation of being in the thick of dealing with grief for the loss of a beloved immediate family member just a few months ago. And that after more than a year of the physical / emotional stress on everyone of intensive home care and multiple hospital visits. And hopefully it will be years away, but what if the health situation of the beloved and close elderly (over 90yo) granddad's suddenly and unexpectedly changes? 

Again, I know we don't make decisions based on vague "what *might happens", but I do think these are some pretty big, specific extenuating circumstances that really do need to be at least considered in making a decision about accelerating this particular child in math, as these potential circumstances would have an impact on the whole family.

Wishing you all the BEST as you sort through your options and come to a decision. Warmly, Lori D.

I don't think there necessarily needs to be a huge big push to get him ready for algebra.  I mean, you buy the pre-algebra curriculum and I see it making sense for child to spend some time doing math while mom is working, just because, frankly, it's something quiet and focused to do for 30 minutes or whatever while he needs to be occupied, but whether or not he pushes himself to be ready for algebra in the fall is entirely up to child.  Taking pre-algebra versus algebra in sixth grade isn't a failure.  And in my experience, there are off ramps up through ninth grade, so if he needs to repeat algebra or geometry or algebra 2, that's all totally possible up through the first year in high school.  

I think allowing him to compete with cousin now, while they're in such close proximity, makes sense, IF HE WANTS TO, but I also can see the importance of that fading dramatically when kids go back to school and they aren't literally living on top of each other with each other as the other's only peer.  

[Sherry in OH]

6 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I guess that if the answer is that you wanted your kid to take Algebra in 6th, because they took Pre-Algebra in 5th, then I'd ask why they took Pre-Algebra in 5th?  

To be clear, I absolutely get that sometimes the answer is "because my kid really loves math".  Math was, quite possibly, my middle child's favorite thing in the world.  He did math because it brought him joy and was a powerful distractor for a kid who needed to be distracted from a really sucky life.  I did math with him, lots of math with him, because joining with someone you love who is doing something they love is an incredibly wonderful thing.  And the natural outcome of all that math was that he was far ahead.  I certainly don't regret that. 

I also understand, in families who intend to homeschool throughout, that it's easy to end up ahead with a bright kid, just because you schedule a certain amount of math in the day and they move through what they move through.  If my long term plan was to homeschool this kid, then I think we'd just put one foot in front of the other, and see where it leads us. If he gets in over his head, we'd just stop, and back up, or follow a rabbit trail. But we're not homeschoolers, we're crisis schoolers, and the plan is for him to go back.  So, I feel like I need to figure out what I think is best. 

My sister and brother in law, who I love and think are good parents, clearly think that being in Algebra in 6th is better than being in Algebra in 7th.  They are pushing hard to achieve that goal with my niece.   They've rearranged their schedules so that they can spend more time on math. They keeps pushing when she whines about the math.   They're also in the middle of a move and only looking at middle schools that would let her take Algebra in 6th.  It's a high priority for them, but when I asked them why they were kind of mystified by the question.  I think they think that it's so obvious that 6th is better than 7th that they can't articulate?  It's clear that they think that not only should I let him do this, I should make him do this.  

I feel like I have a pro and con list in my head.  The pro list, at this point, has one thing on it, which is that he wants it.  And maybe that's enough.  He's had a rough couple years.  All sorts of things he wants to do haven't been possible.  This is a chance to say yes to something, a thing that's actually covid safe, and within our budget, and can be accomplished while I'm working.  I just want to make sure I'm thinking through all the factors.  

Other than the fact that saying no to your kid in a pandemic is no fun, what do people see as pros?  

My son did pre-Algebra in 5th grade because I refused to teach it to a 4th grader.  He had completed MEP reception through 5.  I already knew from working with his older brother, that MEP 6 would be too much review.  It was time to move on.  This child had also done all of the Life of Fred Elementary books and read the Beast Academy guidebooks and every Murderous Math book he could get his hands on.  

If there was one thing I could change in hindsight it would have been not to send him to public school for 6th grade.   If he had stayed home one more year, he would have gotten a start on Algebra 1 using AOPS.   How far he got in the program would not have mattered since the charter school he now attends does not consider anyone else's Algebra I class to be on par with what it offers. The highest level math class an incoming 7th grader  (or 8th grader) can take is Algebra 1.  I think there is a definite benefit to two years of Algebra 1 using different programs.   

(Son's 6th grade math teacher was actually one of his most responsive teacher.  Teachers in other subjects taught the state's curriculum and if it was too easy, the suggested options were e-school or grade skipping.)

For me the largest pro for early Algebra is that for students who are ready to move on, another year or two or three of elementary math is pure drudgery.  They know that material and begin to view math as boring and meaningless.  Another pro is that it allows time to study tangential math.   Personally I prefer schools offering an advanced math track versus the recent push toward grade skipping.  

The main con in a school setting is that too often math placement is based more on which parents are most vocal than on the students' abilities.   If overwhelmed students are not allowed to drop back down to a more appropriate level, burn out can occur.  

If you and your husband feel that the best option for your son is a school that doesn't offer Algebra I in 6th grade, get your son to buy into why this is the best option. Acknowledge that yes, his cousin will take Algebra I in 6th grade and he will not.  But, at his school he will ...  

[Lori D.]

42 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would guess that holding this child back for this reason would lead to a whole lot of bitterness... I understand what you're saying, but that seems unfair. 

I don't see it as having to be holding back.

That's why I keep mentioning explorations sideways or in math topics of high interest to him. 😉

And since mom would be way-overextended overseeing that option, what about hiring the tutor who works with older brother already. Then the tutor could either move the 5th grade DS through Pre-Algebra in prep for Algebra in 6th grade, if that's really DS's heart's desire. Or the tutor could oversee the exploring sideways and going wide. Math could be totally taken off of mom's plate for the rest of the year, and de-stress the decision making for 6th grade. (Esp. since none of us knows what that's going to look like pandemic-wise and if returning to school will work for *this* family at that time.)

Or, if that's just not an option, prevent the awkwardness that OP mentioned by  "forcing math on one and then not having the other do math could get awkward. and have 5th grade DS do math that doesn't require heavy oversight, such as the Acellus or Khan Academy or Math Counts that a few posters mentioned way up-thread.

Yes, this is absolutely a tough choice. OP, I encourage you to be kind to yourself  and look ahead as to what YOU realistically can and can't do -- and what maintains physical/emotional/mental health for all of you -- what with what HAS to be on your plate right now. I know you really want to give this to 5th grade DS right now for many reasons, but it also wouldn't be the end of the world if accelerating math right now can't happen, or isn't the best choice for him -- or you -- or your family. 

Blessings in finding what works best. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I think allowing him to compete with cousin now, while they're in such close proximity, makes sense, IF HE WANTS TO, but I also can see the importance of that fading dramatically when kids go back to school and they aren't literally living on top of each other with each other as the other's only peer.  

That's kind of my take -- to do the work that would make this possible for now, but also not assume that competition with her will be his main motivating force forever. But that would definitely require making sure that there's an off ramp along the way. I wouldn't be comfortable putting him on a track he couldn't get off of. 

[EKS]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Plus, college level calculus tends to be harder than high school level. Way more proof-y 😉 . 

This too!

[JennyD]

I think that there is a difference between 'taking algebra in 6th grade' and 'choosing a school specifically because it offers algebra in 6h grade.'    And then, as others have mentioned, there's algebra class and there's algebra class.  I don't think the course title tells you very much other than I guess you can expect to be solving equations.  

Do you have a strong sense of what school would be the best fit for him/your family overall, minus the question of what they call their 6th grade math class?  My own inclination would be to start by narrowing down the choices in a more general way, and then ask more specific questions of your top choices about what 6th grade math actually covers to assess whether your son would be appropriately challenged.

As for his cousin, I agree with the PP who noted that the intensity of that competition is likely to fade significantly once everyone is back in school.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by JennyD

[Drama Llama]

3 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I agree. And I keep thinking about this kiddo starting an algebra class in the fall that is a stretch for him and requires consistent, dedicated effort to stay on top of, and then a couple months later having to navigate some very sad one year anniversaries. 

Yes, although some of why we're in this situation, with the math, is that his response to stress has been to need to be very busy, and very routine oriented.  During the first two months when DH, and DS13 and I were barely managing to do anything, he did soooo much math, and baking, and lego building, and other things.  So, it's possible that next year when we hit that string of anniversaries the math will be a blessing. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

I think that there is a difference between 'taking algebra in 6th grade' and 'choosing a school specifically because it offers algebra in 6h grade.'    And then, as others have mentioned, there's algebra class and there's algebra class.  I don't think the course title tells you very much other than I guess you can expect to be solving equations.  

Do you have a strong sense of what school would be the best fit for him/your family overall, minus the question of what they call their 6th grade math class?  My own inclination would be to start by narrowing down the choices in a more general way, and then ask more specific questions of your top choices about what 6th grade math actually covers to assess whether your son would be appropriately challenged.

As for his cousin, I agree with the PP who noted that the intensity of that competition is likely to fade significantly once everyone is back in school.  

I think covid is a big player here.  I think that he's ready for the challenges of our big public middle school, but I worry about the virus.  The little parish school would be far safer.  

We did decide today that we're going to try having him test into the middle school STEM magnet.  First you have to establish eligibility, and then it's a lottery, so the odds aren't great.  If he doesn't get in there, then it will be either our local public, or our parish school.  Unless things are bad enough that I decide to keep him home.  But in that case, we'd make a new plan and there wouldn't be a rush. 

I am not really worried about him in 6th grade Algebra.  I think he'd do fine.  I'm worried about high school.  

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I am not really worried about him in 6th grade Algebra.  I think he'd do fine.  I'm worried about high school.  

Because he’d run out of math? Or because he’s flounder somewhere along the way?

[daijobu]

I wish your student and his cousin were competing on their performance in MathCounts and AMC 8 rather than racing through PreA and Algebra.  

Can you remind me what math curriculum your student is studying?

I would rather see your student use AoPS Algebra when he has completed prealgebra to your satisfaction, along with practice and success in math contests. 

I personally would feel greater pride if my student made Distinguished Honor Roll than if he raced through Algebra in 6 months.   

[Drama Llama]

 

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Because he’d run out of math? Or because he’s flounder somewhere along the way?

Because he'd end up in pretty intense math classes, which might not be how he'd want to spend his time.  At that point he might be super interested in something else and want to focus his energy there.  

Because I have no idea if he'll be developmentally ready for calculus at 15, and if he isn't, then slowing down would be hard, because a break between Algebra 2 and precalc, or precalc and calc seems like not a great idea.

Because he's 10, and making decisions that impact what he high school he goes to, or what classes he takes in high school seems really early.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Because I have no idea if he'll be developmentally ready for calculus at 15, and if he isn't, then slowing down would be hard, because a break between Algebra 2 and precalc, or precalc and calc seems like not a great idea.

It’s not developmental readiness that messes you up for calculus. It just isn’t. I taught kids who were plenty old who didn’t get it and it was because they weren’t solid in earlier stuff. 

If he’s ready for algebra now, then I wouldn’t worry about “developmental readiness” for calculus. That’s just not a thing.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Because he'd end up in pretty intense math classes, which might not be how he'd want to spend his time.  At that point he might be super interested in something else and want to focus his energy there.  

Maybe? Stats isn’t an intense math class. Lots of possible filler classes aren’t that intense. They are just different.

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I wish your student and his cousin were competing on their performance in MathCounts and AMC 8 rather than racing through PreA and Algebra.  

I don't have a say in that.  The goal of Algebra is something that's important to my SIL and BIL, and he's decided that if she can do it, he can do it.  This isn't coming from me.  

2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

Can you remind me what math curriculum your student is studying?

Last year, he did Math in Focus 4, and Beast Academy 4.  This year he's mostly doing Beast Academy 5.  He's used some of the Math Mammoth materials when there's a concept he needed to see presented in a different way.  He's also worked a little with his brother's math tutor, who pulls from a variety of resources.  

2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I would rather see your student use AoPS Algebra when he has completed prealgebra to your satisfaction, along with practice and success in math contests. 

I don't think AoPS is a good fit for him.  He doesn't have any interest in math contests, and it's not something I see as being a good fit for him. 

2 minutes ago, daijobu said:

I personally would feel greater pride if my student made Distinguished Honor Roll than if he raced through Algebra in 6 months.   

My pride in my kids has nothing whatsoever to do with their academic performance.  He makes me proud in many other ways.  

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Because he's 10, and making decisions that impact what he high school he goes to, or what classes he takes in high school seems really early.  

But any decision you make impacts that. If you put him in algebra later, that’s a cap on the classes he can take. 

I understand the anxiety, but unfortunately, he’s old enough for the decisions to matter.

When I was in middle school, right after we immigrated, I decided to watch TV all day after school instead of doing my homework. Then my grades sucked, and it affected the high school I could go to. I was 11 when I didn’t do any work. It mattered. But it turned out OK 😉 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I don't think AoPS is a good fit for him.  He doesn't have any interest in math contests, and it's not something I see as being a good fit for him. 

Has he ever done math contest math? It does tend to be more fun.

Why not AoPS if he’s doing BA??

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Maybe? Stats isn’t an intense math class. Lots of possible filler classes aren’t that intense. They are just different.

There aren't lots of options available at the public or private high schools in our area, and we're in a pretty intense high pressure area.  After Algebra 2, which he'd take in 8th grade, there are a couple levels of precalc, a non-AP calc class, AP calc AB, AP calc BC, and AP stats.  There are some schools that also offer one of IB math HL, multivariable, and linear algebra.  

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

There aren't lots of options available at the public or private high schools in our area, and we're in a pretty intense high pressure area.  After Algebra 2, which he'd take in 8th grade, there are a couple levels of precalc, a non-AP calc class, AP calc AB, AP calc BC, and AP stats.  There are some schools that also offer one of IB math HL, multivariable, and linear algebra.  

I mean, honestly, I don’t know that it would be awful for him to take algebra again if he wasn’t into the idea of hard math. You would probably be able to have that conversation with him in 2-3 years.

[Drama Llama]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Has he ever done math contest math? It does tend to be more fun.

I don't think it's the right choice for him.  I don't think introducing more competition into this dynamic is helpful.

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Why not AoPS if he’s doing BA??

I don't think it's a fit. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I don't think it's the right choice for him.  I don't think introducing more competition into this dynamic is helpful.

You don’t have to do it competitively... it’s just more fun. More playful, if you will.

 

Quote

I don't think it's a fit. 

I’m just curious why not. It’s a standard suggestion for accelerated kids. It’s obviously not for everyone, but if he likes BA, it’s the obvious next thing.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, honestly, I don’t know that it would be awful for him to take algebra again if he wasn’t into the idea of hard math. You would probably be able to have that conversation with him in 2-3 years.

You'd have him spend 3 years of middle school going through Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and then retake the same exact courses in high school?  Or am I misunderstanding?  

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

You'd have him spend 3 years of middle school going through Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, and then retake the same exact courses in high school?  Or am I misunderstanding?  

Well, or start wherever he’d want to, if he doesn’t want to work super hard and take hard math! They wouldn’t be identical courses, and I’m sure he’d have an easier time with them since he’d seen the material. 

Why not?? Most people don’t fully learn things the first time. I know linear algebra really well mostly because I teach it all the time...

My point is that you aren’t really making a decision about high school now. There are easy off ramps.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, or start wherever he’d want to, if he doesn’t want to work super hard and take hard math! They wouldn’t be identical courses, and I’m sure he’d have an easier time with them since he’d seen the material. 

Why not?? Most people don’t fully learn things the first time. I know linear algebra really well mostly because I teach it all the time...

My point is that you aren’t really making a decision about high school now. There are easy off ramps.

I feel like this kind of ignores the reality of public school.  

If he failed a class, or came close, there would be off ramps, but I'd rather not put him through that.  Other than that, the off ramps wouldn't be easy.  

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I feel like this kind of ignores the reality of public school.  

If he failed a class, or came close, there would be off ramps, but I'd rather not put him through that.  Other than that, the off ramps wouldn't be easy.  

Is it really that weird to take a class again at the high school level that you took in middle school? Kids certainly “repeat” classes in college that they took in high school.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Is it really that weird to take a class again at the high school level that you took in middle school? Kids certainly “repeat” classes in high school and college.

It's not weird to repeat a class the following year, if you got a poor grade.  I think most kids would find it embarrassing or boring, but it's not uncommon. 

But to retake the same exact Algebra 1 class that you took 3 years ago, and got a decent grade in?  Yes, that would be really weird.  And while the high school grades, at least in our area, would erase the middle school grades, I think that most colleges who value kids challenging themselves would look askance at a transcript that went from Precalc to Algebra 1.  

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, BaseballandHockey said:

But to retake the same exact Algebra 1 class that you took 3 years ago, and got a decent grade in? 

Why would it necessarily be an identical class? If you do IB, say, it’s a different sequence. The school may have an advanced track. He could test out and do DO or AoPS then, if he only did algebra at school. There are options...

[Drama Llama]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Why would it necessarily be an identical class? If you do IB, say, it’s a different sequence. The school may have an advanced track. He could test out and do DO or AoPS then, if he only did algebra at school. There are options...

No that’s just not how it works.  There is one Algebra 1 class, with one set of worksheets and slide shows and tests that is taught to every kid taking Algebra 1 in a middle school or high school in our county, unless they are taking the half speed version for kids expected to need more than 4 years of high school, or the magnet middle school version, which would depend on him winning the magnet lottery.

For Geometry, and  Alg 2 the middle school only offers the honors version.  I guess he could take on level but the grade wouldn’t replace so colleges would see that.  Plus there would be no new content.

IB classes begin in 11th.  You can’t take them before 11th, and of dozen schools he could end up at 2 of them have IB.