Great article on reasons for the rising cost of college

[readwithem]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122844276224181879.html

 

Some excerpts:

 

The soup-to-nuts cost (tuition, room and board, extras) of one year at a private college is already in the region of $50,000, bringing the cost of a bachelor's degree to close to a quarter of a million dollars. As one wag has observed, that's like buying a new BMW every year and driving it off a cliff.

 

Then there's the cost of college life itself. I've been wide-eyed on some of my visits, struck by the extent to which being a student today resembles living at Versailles, where Louis XIV's every whim was so thoroughly accommodated that there was even a Superintendent of the King's Furniture. One college tour guide proudly informed us that upon arrival every freshman is issued a brand-new laptop. Even if the students already have one? Why, yes, the guide replied.

 

On every tour we took, guides proudly boasted about the wide selection of clubs at their respective institutions -- a number that almost everywhere runs into the hundreds. And they reassured us that if, after surveying these abundant offerings, a student finds some lack, he can start his own organization and the college will subsidize it -- no questions asked.

 

Of course, it isn't really the college subsidizing it. It's us, the parents. Until I started these tours, I used to assume that college kids tilted left politically because they were young and impressionable. Maybe, but it's also because they get introduced to the welfare state at a tender age and become addicted. The government (college) offers cradle-to-grave (matriculation-to-graduation) care and feeding, levying higher taxes (tuition) on the populace (parents) whenever the spirit moves them -- which is every year. Not even the actual government is that brazen.

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks for posting this. Interesting read.

[Jane in NC]

Yes, that was interesting.

 

My brother in law is a professor at a top LAC. Over Thanksgiving dinner he mused over the promise that his college has made to have students graduate debt-free and wonders how his school will fund this, given the Wall Street collapse.

 

Things are out of whack but parents seem to play into the need for their children to have the full treatment on campus. In my day, students went off to college with the family's cast offs, not designer linens, every electronic widget imaginable, etc. I keep wondering how colleges can keep up with safety issues in old dorms--they certainly were not wired originally for every room to have television sets, computers, etc.

 

Jane (the old fogey)

[Gwen in VA]

Fascinating article.

 

The luxury depicted in the article has certainly been our experience. We have visited science centers with plusher interiors than one of the top law firms in Boston. We have even seen brickwork outside dorms that would make Versailles jealous! For many college kids, even the gym phycilities are far nicer than what they will probably ever have access to again in their lives, even if they join a super-premium health club.

 

I am amazed that some college offer their profs sebatcles every five years, not just every seven. Wow!

 

Certainly the days of the starving student and the bare-bones physical environment are long gone.

 

If this economic crisis causes colleges to think more about what their real mission is and how they can cut costs without hurting that mission, that will be a (very very small) silver lining in this economic crunch.

[inashoe]

Is this happening in public and private colleges ?

 

Certainly the private colleges I have seen are incredible, they look beautiful, landscaped gardens complete with water fountain, wonderful facilities, art theatre to compete with any around the world, etc.

 

Our local public college, looks like a dump compared to the private colleges - and I really don't think there is anything wrong with our local public college, it is just more bare bones, barren halls, small patches of grass, between crammed buildings.

 

Just wondering if this type of OTT treatment is in public as well as private colleges ?

[Melanie]

I have attended eight public colleges (we're military) and none of them have struck me dumb with amazement in the aesthetics department. The prettiest and best equipped school I attended was University of Alaska, Anchorage, but it was also the cheapest - go figure!

[4wildberrys]

Hmmmm---and then add this--- http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/content/our_fading_heritage_11-20-08.pdf

 

So the kids are living in the lap of luxury, buying and driving those BMWs off the cliff every year---while NOT learning American History---and if they do, they learn the Howard Zinn "victimology" theory, learning to be ashamed to be American..........or some psycho goes on a shooting rampage. uurrgghh--I watch too much news! BUT---the ridiculously high cost of college is a real worry for this country. Add to that this outrageously extended period of "adolescence" today's kids are enjoying.............Man. My freshman dorm was 4 brick walls, a cheap iron bed, and linoleum flooring. WE had to take care of the decorations. The last time I visited my college---those old dorms had been razed for the new "luxury" dorms today's kids (and I guess parents) are demanding! :confused::confused:

[PamJH]

Some of you might be interested in a book I'm reading called "The Dumbest Generation." It discusses the topics you're speaking of, but especially addresses the "gotta have it or I'll die" attitude and the lack of learning that actually goes on in high schools and on college campuses.

 

As the poster who talked about American history, you're right on the button according to this book. According to the author, kids today have unprecedented educational opportunities but they don't take advantage of them. Nor do their parents and teachers push them to do it. The kids don't read much and they don't see any reason to read.

 

I work in a newsroom, however, and none of my young colleagues are like the kids described in the book. But then again, journalism tends to attract people who like to read about a wide variety of topics, who are politically active, etc.

 

I know I'm rambling, but I encourage you to see if your library has a copy of this book. It's fascinating reading.

[Beth in SW WA]

while NOT learning American History---and if they do, they learn the Howard Zinn "victimology" theory, learning to be ashamed to be American..........

 

I know this is off topic but I just have to say...

 

Preach it! :iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Have you seen Schweikarts Patriot's History of the US or his new 48 Liberal Lies About American History? They are a breath of fresh air!

 

I'm just sayin'...:)

[Beth in SW WA]

Some of you might be interested in a book I'm reading called "The Dumbest Generation."

 

I know I'm rambling, but I encourage you to see if your library has a copy of this book. It's fascinating reading.

 

Thanks for the reminder about this book. I've been wanting to read it.

 

My kids are the odd-balls since they don't have cell phones, Myspace, and an easy schoolwork load (as compared to their friends). I'm the meany.

 

I don't want DUMB kids!

 

But we are like fish going upstream.

 

Thankfully I found SWB and this forum.

[PamJH]

I'm not sure I'd characterize Howard Zinn's work as victimology. Most American history textbooks (and I've examined a number of them) either don't mention, gloss over or simply give a line or two to some terrible things that happened in our country. Why ignore them? I'm talking about child labor, deadly labor strikes, unimaginable poverty, 14-hour mandatory work days, lynchings, etc.

 

What's needed is balance. We have plenty to be proud of in this nation. I believe we are a democratic experiment, that despite some very serious problems along the way, that has succeeded beyond the Founding Fathers' wildest dreams. But we also need to know and understand the problems.

 

For American and world history, we use Zinn, Page Smith, Spielvogel, and a variety of other sources. I don't see any value in studying only one side of our great American story.

[Laura in VA]

I know this is off topic but I just have to say...

 

Preach it! :iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Have you seen Schweikarts Patriot's History of the US or his new 48 Liberal Lies About American History? They are a breath of fresh air!

 

I'm just sayin'...:)

 

 

Yes, great post 4wildberrys. :iagree:

[Beth in SW WA]

I'm not sure I'd characterize Howard Zinn's work as victimology.

Its people like him who perpetuate class envy and the victim mentality in this country.

 

For American and world history, we use Zinn, Page Smith, Spielvogel, and a variety of other sources. I don't see any value in studying only one side of our great American story.

 

We will read Spielvogel, a bit of Tindall -- but not Zinn.

 

 

A quote from Zinn in A People's History, page 679:

 

"It seemed that the United States was reacting to the horrors perpetuated by terrorists against innocent people in New York by killing other innocent people in Afghanistan."

 

And page 684 in his Afterword:

 

"For instance, there is the issue of class. It is pretended that, as in the Preamble to the Constitution, it is "we the people" who wrote that document, rather than fifty-five privileged white males whose class interest required a strong central government. That use of government for class purposes, to serve the needs of the wealthy and powerful, has continued throughout American history, down to the present day."

My kids won't be reading this liberal bias as part of their history ed. Too many wonderful resources are available that align more with my worldview. Bennett & Schweikart are my U.S. history faves.

[RebeccaC]

A quote from Zinn in A People's History, page 679:

 

"It seemed that the United States was reacting to the horrors perpetuated by terrorists against innocent people in New York by killing other innocent people in Afghanistan."

 

And page 684 in his Afterword:

 

"For instance, there is the issue of class. It is pretended that, as in the Preamble to the Constitution, it is "we the people" who wrote that document, rather than fifty-five privileged white males whose class interest required a strong central government. That use of government for class purposes, to serve the needs of the wealthy and powerful, has continued throughout American history, down to the present day."

My kids won't be reading this liberal bias as part of their history ed. Too many wonderful resources are available that align more with my worldview. Bennett & Schweikart are my U.S. history faves.

 

 

:blink: I cannot believe I just read these quotes! Un.Be.lievable!!!!! That is not balance that is blatant bias......:glare: Can any one say revisionist history...... No way no how are my kids reading Zinn especially the Afghanistan quote :cursing: Was there a mention that we did not purposely target innocent but the terrorists did purposefully target innocents? There is a huge difference when civilians/innocents are purposefully targeted and when they are not. We did not purposefully target innocents. I would like this so call historian to find one war any where where there were no innocents killed. That is one reason why war is so horrible and should not be entered into lightly. However writing like this is nothing but blatant bias, it alludes that we went and purposefully targeted civilians just like the terrorists targeted the Twin Towers...... Un.Be.lieveable! This is a smack in the face to every man and woman who severed in our military over there.

 

As a veteran of the Gulf War, I am majorly offended by that first quote! What a naive and ignorant point of view! No way are my boys reading that kind of cr*p......

 

What a bunch of crock the last quote was..... Talk about a socialist bias..... No way is this balance it is a one sided very liberal view :rant: I don't mind my boys reading the liberal point of view as long as the book or article is balanced these quotes show No balance at all nor do they show any basis in fact. Both quotes are, in my opinion, a demented twisting of of fact devoid of reality..... a mutaltion fact, spin to the enth degree......

Edited December 6, 2008 by RebeccaC

[PamJH]

Well, that's what's great about America. We can agree to disagree.

[RebeccaC]

Well, that's what's great about America. We can agree to disagree.

 

Yes, it is nice that what makes America great is we can agree to disagree. However, someone has to the pay the price so that we can enjoy that greatness and Zinn's writing is a slap in the face of those who have paid that price. I did not got to Saudi so that some ivory tower idiot, who takes lightly the freedom and greatness he or she enjoys, could rewrite what I did and I sure don't think that the men and women who went to Afghanistan would appreciate their sacrifice being so belittled. They did not go there with orders to target civilians. The mission of the terrorists tho was to kill as many civilians as they could. I don't want my kids thinking that because America defended herself we are the same as the terrorists and that quote alludes that.....

 

I want my kids to see and know that what happened on 9/11 deserved a military response. When they are old enough I want them to see folks jumping from the towers so not to be burned alive, because evil terrorists purposefully targeted civilians. My dh lost friends and co-workers on 9/11. Our country did not harbor and train terrorist, the civilians of Afghanistan tho lived in a country whose leaders aided and abetted the attack on civilians in our country. In my opinion any death of the Afghanistan civilians is the fault of the Taliban. Not one word did Zinn give about the misogyny or even the misanthropy views of the oppressive Taliban. Nope just blather about innocent folks dying, what a cowardly crock of......

 

I really do respect your right to let your kids read Zinn and this rant is tho aimed at Zinn...... My previous rant was a response to Beth and the quotes she posted.

Edited December 6, 2008 by RebeccaC

[JWSJ]

My kids won't be reading this liberal bias as part of their history ed. Too many wonderful resources are available that align more with my worldview. Bennett & Schweikart are my U.S. history faves.

 

Oh, I'd highlight that bias (and others) for when my kids are older. To show them how easy it is to go astray with similar thoughts. They will encounter similar opinions when they hit college (I did). This (and other) bias are taught in public high schools - at least they were when I graduated in the early 1990's.

 

Putting history (and anything) in it's correct context has an enlightening effect.

[Michelle in MO]

well-established, and I never lived on campus. I do remember the dorm rooms (just visiting them) being pretty barren, though. I also remember my bare minimum apartments, and many meals of oatmeal, canned or fresh veggies, or a hamburger, or hamburger helper (compliments of my roommate!). I had a bookcase which I scrounged for $10.00 from a used furniture store, a hand-me down couch, and my roommate got a 10-inch black & white TV with antennae. My college papers were typed, mind you, not done on word processors!

 

The article was very good; things certainly have changed. I have no problem with colleges upgrading security: that seems to be almost necessary in this day and age. But, it seems that part of the learning experience in college should be students learning to live within a limited budget. I knew a guy in college who bought all of his clothes from a second-hand clothing store---a lower-end second-hand clothing store. He managed to graduate just fine.

[inashoe]

Oh, I'd highlight that bias (and others) for when my kids are older. To show them how easy it is to go astray with similar thoughts. They will encounter similar opinions when they hit college (I did). This (and other) bias are taught in public high schools - at least they were when I graduated in the early 1990's.

 

Putting history (and anything) in it's correct context has an enlightening effect.

 

My 10 yo already is aware of opposing opinions. He has only been homeschooled, mixes with fellow homeschoolers, mainly Christians. Yet he asked me yesterday, how can people say they support the troops but not the war. Even the youngest ones are aware that there are conflicting opinions out there.

[4wildberrys]

 

My kids are the odd-balls since they don't have cell phones, Myspace, and an easy schoolwork load (as compared to their friends). I'm the meany.

 

I don't want DUMB kids!

 

But we are like fish going upstream.

 

Thankfully I found SWB and this forum.

 

:iagree: My kids are oddballs too----school "5" days a week instead of the 4 the kids here have! They work until our schedule for the day is done----so that could be any time of day---including evenings :tongue_smilie:And they read---a LOT (we use Sonlight among lots of other things). But never will they be brainwashed with Zinn or any other class-war, white-male-European-descent bashing,liberally-biased, anti-necessary-military-action, anti-military, America=terrorist/oppressor etc. drivel that will make them any less proud to be Americans :001_smile:

 

In fact, the extremely scary thing in my mind is that recently I had a public school teacher friend RECOMMEND Zinn's book---and then comment that they are using it in colleges all across the country!!! My poor dh's father is a Zinn groupie---and guess what? After reading this book----he thinks America is a terrible place! :001_huh:

[Beth in SW WA]

Oh, I'd highlight that bias (and others) for when my kids are older. To show them how easy it is to go astray with similar thoughts.

They will encounter similar opinions when they hit college (I did). This (and other) bias are taught in public high schools - at least they were when I graduated in the early 1990's.

 

Putting history (and anything) in it's correct context has an enlightening effect.

 

:iagree:

 

My dc already have a clear understanding of the opposing sides in politics, due to the recent election. They watched every debate. Every news conference. From both sides.

 

They are keenly aware that many Americans hate their country. They will not go to college w/ rose colored glasses. Cynical glasses, perhaps. But not rosy.

 

In science, they will know evolution upside down & backwards before they hit their college bio class, even though we don't believe in it.

 

If anything, we will use excerpts from Zinn, Loewen & others to show what they are up against in the culture war.

[lovemyboys]

I'm not sure I'd characterize Howard Zinn's work as victimology. Most American history textbooks (and I've examined a number of them) either don't mention, gloss over or simply give a line or two to some terrible things that happened in our country. Why ignore them? I'm talking about child labor, deadly labor strikes, unimaginable poverty, 14-hour mandatory work days, lynchings, etc.

 

What's needed is balance. We have plenty to be proud of in this nation. I believe we are a democratic experiment, that despite some very serious problems along the way, that has succeeded beyond the Founding Fathers' wildest dreams. But we also need to know and understand the problems.

 

I'm paying attention to threads like this these days, before I know it, I'll have to line up resources and curriculum for this age.

 

The problem with this kind of resource is that it presents one view and MANY of the kids who use it do NO other reading, either assigned or on their own. As one of those kids who read voraciously through highschool and college, I would have been able to balance a particular viewpoint just from all the reading I did. Most kids don't do that.

 

I agree that awful things happened in our country's past, but to view them from a narcissistic perspective is a discredit and inaccurate. These issues and events are not unique in any way in this world, then or now.

 

What IS unique is that we discuss our history, we examine our failings, we exhort each other to do better, we speak out and change laws, we (try to) elect leaders who will keep America strong and free. Most every country on earth has a storied past, some good, some very ugly, but many of those countries and people either don't or can't talk about it in public/as a society as we're able to do here.

 

I've said it here before, even though the current style is to say that the world hates the US, there is a reason that so many people see hope and opportunity here and try so hard to come live here.

 

Anyway, back to the schools -- I'm seeing this trend creep to the high schools as well. Have you (all)? Espresso/coffee bars, ice cream machines, etc. The cool back-to-school ads in the summer with the completely designer-decorated rooms from Target and Walmart were amazing -- and that didn't even cover the electronic "support" that each student has to have.

 

:confused:

[lovemyboys]

But, it seems that part of the learning experience in college should be students learning to live within a limited budget.

 

I know I did and it's helped me through my whole life.

 

My mom was just apologizing over Thanksgiving that she didn't realize how tight things were for me in college.

 

We were all in college at once, being close in age, so my parents paid room and board, we kids had 2 summer jobs each to save for the school year, then jobs while at school to cover more expenses. But semester ends got tight.

 

I told her it was the best thing possible for my maturing. ;)

[mcconnellboys]

I agree. This book helps to confirm the fears postulated in an earlier work: Losing our Language.

 

Have y'all seen the news report about the government study pulling together numerous other studies from years past on all forms of media usage by kids? As little as 8 hours weekly of ANY type of usage, including Ipods, cell phones, TV, video, gaming devices, etc. begins to result in various adverse affects.... Average usage was something like 45 hours per week....

[mcconnellboys]

We always balanced our studies of American history, too. We studied the Indian removals in depth. We read at length about the trials and tribulations associated with manifest destiny. We read widely about labor problems throughout the age of industrialization (and worldwide). We've studied the civil rights movement in depth - worldwide - not just US. But I believe the key to such reading is balance from a variety of authors.

 

Thankfully, my son already had a good base in American history when he was required to read Zinn this past summer for an upcoming AP American history class. He came to me with comments on practically every chapter and heard me rant about the slant of the book all summer. Setting forth facts is one thing; leaving out other facts so that the ones presented seem to suggest a story different than would otherwise be seen, is quite another. Both my son and I were struck by what seemed a very biased form of writing to us. I would have to say that "victimology" does seem an appropriate characterization of this book to me.

 

It's not just the facts he sets forth; it's his tone and the coinciding facts that he leaves out which I feel present a real prejudice for those kids who are studying American history for perhaps the first time, in depth, and who do not have a broader factual base than the one presented in this book. I absolutely agree with you that we do need to recognize the problems with our country's history, but I believe those need to be fully understood from a broad and complete accounting of the facts in as unbiased a way as possible. I do not believe that Zinn presents a good first reading of history for high school or college level kids who might not have already studied history with some depth.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, I used the required reading of Zinn to highlight how his telling of our history varied so often from the many, many other sources we've read over the years. In cases where he did include accurate information, he often left out some parts of the story that would have moderated views of the overall affair. And his many blatantly biased statements (such as those quoted by Beth) only served to emphasize his twisted retelling of the American story. It was a good exercise in recognizing propaganda, however, and in preparation for college....

[LisaKinVA]

Part of our homeschool philosophy (for high school) is to have our children read/study some books which are blatantly biased, and/or against our beliefs -- as part of building their ability to compare and contrast what they are reading against other viewpoints and the Bible. I want to help them learn to pick out bias -- to read between the lines (what is being inferred, what is being glossed over, or just plain left out).

 

To me, this is critically important college preparation, whether one attends a "conservative" school, or a "liberal" school. Bias abounds on either side, and we need to be able to ferret it out.

 

Not just for academics, but also for religious reasons.

 

Why do cults and legalism take hold in a person's life? Because people do not search the scriptures and compare what they are being taught as the Bereans did... Too many people have a "well, if he said it, it must be true" philosophy in church. Or, simply not daring to challenge the thought process.

 

I want my children to be like the Bereans in all facets of their life and education -- and that takes a lot more than reading only the things with which I agree.