thanks for the help!

[matrips]

Could it be covid-bubble related and not typical cliquish stuff?  Maybe they all know and are comfortable with their covid risks and don’t want to open up to an outside during the middle of the pandemic?

[hs03842]

1 hour ago, importswim said:

Gently, you've said this has plagued you your whole life.

The thing that has plagued me has been the lack of awareness of typical female cattiness--usually I don't notice it until way, waaaay later when I think, "Hmm...whoa!  These chicks didn't really like me!  Wow.  They wasted their time doing stuff 'to me' that I didn't even notice until now." [Does anyone else know the feeling?  Please tell me I'm not alone!] That's why I said it has "plagued me but also been kind of great."  It has spared me a lot of hurt feelings where, looking back, I always seem to be drawn in to groups of women who aren't in to gossip or cattiness because we seem to be the type who speak plainly.  Women who I perceived as unfriendly or "tough nuts" ended up over time being the dramatic sort who were looking for gossip buddies or something like that. I credit it to growing up with several brothers and no sisters.  Brothers speak plainly.  I didn't have a sister around to pull passive aggressive stuff at me and make me expect that sort of behavior from other women. Even my cousins were mainly male--the nearest female cousin is 10 years younger than me. My closest friends are basically without exception women who grew up with only brothers or a large (8+ year) age gap with a sister.  One day I took inventory of that, and it struck me that we must all just communicate in a way that works really well for each other.  After my mom remarried and we gained a few step sisters the difference in how a girl house and (mainly) guy house communicate came into sharp focus.  Most of us were adult children at the time. My mom, who herself grew up with two sisters (and it shows--it is so easy to hurt her feelings), had a really, really hard time learning to be a family with these other women and, truth be told, they all still just can NOT handle it, and it has been a looooong time. I am simply not equipped for this stuff and don't want to turn into that type of woman.  No offense to anyone.  

So with that in mind, it's easy for me to have not noticed if these people hadn't really wanted me around all along and were just being polite.  I tend to go in to groups of women expecting that everyone is being themselves, wants to make friends, and is trying to create the sort of inclusive and friendly environment that I am hoping to create. It takes a lot of aggression in a single event or of time for a series of smaller weird interactions for me to even take notice of something like this event as rude or a potential slight.  It's not out of the realm of possibility for me to have missed something here or there for several months and to have only noticed it now when something more concrete occurred!  😅  Thinking of it this way has made this entire thing feel much more familiar.  The difference here is that my kids normally aren't involved in these interactions at all, but for this they could get their feelings hurt.  It's a new twist.  Anyways, I feel much better about it now and am very thankful that I was able to talk about it on here and get feedback from other with other neighbor experiences.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by JoyKM

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, JoyKM said:

The thing that has plagued me has been the lack of awareness of typical female cattiness--usually I don't notice it until way, waaaay later when I think, "Hmm...whoa!  These chicks didn't really like me!  Wow.  They wasted their time doing stuff 'to me' that I didn't even notice until now." [Does anyone else know the feeling?  Please tell me I'm not alone!] That's why I said it has "plagued me but also been kind of great."  It has spared me a lot of hurt feelings where, looking back, I always seem to be drawn in to groups of women who aren't in to gossip or cattiness because we seem to be the type who speak plainly.  Women who I perceived as unfriendly or "tough nuts" ended up over time being the dramatic sort who were looking for gossip buddies or something like that. I credit it to growing up with several brothers and no sisters.  Brothers speak plainly.  I didn't have a sister around to pull passive aggressive stuff at me and make me expect that sort of behavior from other women. Even my cousins were mainly male--the nearest female cousin is 10 years younger than me. My closest friends are basically without exception women who grew up with only brothers or a large (8+ year) age gap with a sister.  One day I took inventory of that, and it struck me that we must all just communicate in a way that works really well for each other.  After my mom remarried and we gained a few step sisters the difference in how a girl house and (mainly) guy house communicate came into sharp focus.  Most of us were adult children at the time. My mom, who herself grew up with two sisters (and it shows--it is so easy to hurt her feelings), had a really, really hard time learning to be a family with these other women and, truth be told, they all still just can NOT handle it, and it has been a looooong time. I am simply not equipped for this stuff and don't want to turn into that type of woman.  No offense to anyone.  

So with that in mind, it's easy for me to have not noticed if these people hadn't really wanted me around all along and were just being polite.  I tend to go in to groups of women expecting that everyone is being themselves, wants to make friends, and is trying to create the sort of inclusive and friendly environment that I am hoping to create. It takes a lot of aggression in a single event or of time for a series of smaller weird interactions for me to even take notice of something like this event as rude or a potential slight.  It's not out of the realm of possibility for me to have missed something here or there for several months and to have only noticed it now when something more concrete occurred!  😅  Thinking of it this way has made this entire thing feel much more familiar.  The difference here is that my kids normally aren't involved in these interactions at all, but for this they could get their feelings hurt.  It's a new twist.  Anyways, I feel much better about it now and am very thankful that I was able to talk about it on here and get feedback from other with other neighbor experiences.  

Wow.  Congrats on being the cool girl.  

[katilac]

12 hours ago, JoyKM said:

 And you should see how we dress...😂).  

 

Duggar frumpers or Las Vegas showgirl? Inquiring minds want to know 😄

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, JoyKM said:

The thing that has plagued me has been the lack of awareness of typical female cattiness--usually I don't notice it until way, waaaay later when I think, "Hmm...whoa!  These chicks didn't really like me!  Wow.  They wasted their time doing stuff 'to me' that I didn't even notice until now." [Does anyone else know the feeling?  Please tell me I'm not alone!] That's why I said it has "plagued me but also been kind of great."  It has spared me a lot of hurt feelings where, looking back, I always seem to be drawn in to groups of women who aren't in to gossip or cattiness because we seem to be the type who speak plainly.  Women who I perceived as unfriendly or "tough nuts" ended up over time being the dramatic sort who were looking for gossip buddies or something like that. I credit it to growing up with several brothers and no sisters.  Brothers speak plainly.  I didn't have a sister around to pull passive aggressive stuff at me and make me expect that sort of behavior from other women. Even my cousins were mainly male--the nearest female cousin is 10 years younger than me. My closest friends are basically without exception women who grew up with only brothers or a large (8+ year) age gap with a sister.  One day I took inventory of that, and it struck me that we must all just communicate in a way that works really well for each other.  After my mom remarried and we gained a few step sisters the difference in how a girl house and (mainly) guy house communicate came into sharp focus.  Most of us were adult children at the time. My mom, who herself grew up with two sisters (and it shows--it is so easy to hurt her feelings), had a really, really hard time learning to be a family with these other women and, truth be told, they all still just can NOT handle it, and it has been a looooong time. I am simply not equipped for this stuff and don't want to turn into that type of woman.  No offense to anyone.  

So with that in mind, it's easy for me to have not noticed if these people hadn't really wanted me around all along and were just being polite.  I tend to go in to groups of women expecting that everyone is being themselves, wants to make friends, and is trying to create the sort of inclusive and friendly environment that I am hoping to create. It takes a lot of aggression in a single event or of time for a series of smaller weird interactions for me to even take notice of something like this event as rude or a potential slight.  It's not out of the realm of possibility for me to have missed something here or there for several months and to have only noticed it now when something more concrete occurred!  😅  Thinking of it this way has made this entire thing feel much more familiar.  The difference here is that my kids normally aren't involved in these interactions at all, but for this they could get their feelings hurt.  It's a new twist.  Anyways, I feel much better about it now and am very thankful that I was able to talk about it on here and get feedback from other with other neighbor experiences.  

The misogyny in his post is alarming.  I'm not sure where to start, but if you really feel this way about half the population and you chalk up bad behavior to gender, this could be the root of some relationship difficulties.  Some people do come by social skills more naturally than others, but I'm convinced it's a skill and not a talent, so people CAN learn if they apply themselves.  If you routinely feel you're missing social cues or you truly believe women act 'this' way and men act 'that' way then it might help to focus on improving communication and unpacking gender bias. 

Additionally, most people (where I live anyway) are not behaving 'normally' during this Pandemic.  It's just not the best time to broaden your social circle. If you're new to the neighborhood, they don't KNOW what sort of exposure risks you are comfortable taking.  I do feel really bad for you because you're in a new place without a social support system.  That truly does suck, but I'm not sure what the answer is with quarantine and winter happening.  Zoom is just NOT the same and it's hard not having people right now.  I miss EVERYBODY and I didn't even move, so I do feel for you.  I hope you find a local person very soon.

[importswim]

10 hours ago, JoyKM said:

The thing that has plagued me has been the lack of awareness of typical female cattiness--usually I don't notice it until way, waaaay later when I think, "Hmm...whoa!  These chicks didn't really like me!  Wow.  They wasted their time doing stuff 'to me' that I didn't even notice until now." [Does anyone else know the feeling?  Please tell me I'm not alone!] That's why I said it has "plagued me but also been kind of great."  It has spared me a lot of hurt feelings where, looking back, I always seem to be drawn in to groups of women who aren't in to gossip or cattiness because we seem to be the type who speak plainly.  Women who I perceived as unfriendly or "tough nuts" ended up over time being the dramatic sort who were looking for gossip buddies or something like that. I credit it to growing up with several brothers and no sisters.  Brothers speak plainly.  I didn't have a sister around to pull passive aggressive stuff at me and make me expect that sort of behavior from other women. Even my cousins were mainly male--the nearest female cousin is 10 years younger than me. My closest friends are basically without exception women who grew up with only brothers or a large (8+ year) age gap with a sister.  One day I took inventory of that, and it struck me that we must all just communicate in a way that works really well for each other.  After my mom remarried and we gained a few step sisters the difference in how a girl house and (mainly) guy house communicate came into sharp focus.  Most of us were adult children at the time. My mom, who herself grew up with two sisters (and it shows--it is so easy to hurt her feelings), had a really, really hard time learning to be a family with these other women and, truth be told, they all still just can NOT handle it, and it has been a looooong time. I am simply not equipped for this stuff and don't want to turn into that type of woman.  No offense to anyone.  

So with that in mind, it's easy for me to have not noticed if these people hadn't really wanted me around all along and were just being polite.  I tend to go in to groups of women expecting that everyone is being themselves, wants to make friends, and is trying to create the sort of inclusive and friendly environment that I am hoping to create. It takes a lot of aggression in a single event or of time for a series of smaller weird interactions for me to even take notice of something like this event as rude or a potential slight.  It's not out of the realm of possibility for me to have missed something here or there for several months and to have only noticed it now when something more concrete occurred!  😅  Thinking of it this way has made this entire thing feel much more familiar.  The difference here is that my kids normally aren't involved in these interactions at all, but for this they could get their feelings hurt.  It's a new twist.  Anyways, I feel much better about it now and am very thankful that I was able to talk about it on here and get feedback from other with other neighbor experiences.  

I'm so sorry that you haven't yet found a group of women who have shown you that female friendships can be treasured. 

I have been called blunt before (which I took as a compliment after my passive aggressive upbringing), but I like speaking plainly as well (and much prefer this turn of phrase!) 

I find it interesting that out of my whole response this was the only part your responded to, maybe you missed my bolded comments in your original quoted paragraph. I do understand explaining the part that I questioned, and expected that, but really my whole point in posting was to suggest that you're overthinking the situation. From what you've presented here there wasn't anything to be offended by and you are choosing to be offended. You CAN choose to not be. What would happen if you chose this?

From this response it seems as though you have some preconceived notions about how women work and respond to each other. Have you been in the homes of these women, or had more than a passing conversation with them? Any deep conversations at all? My objection to your original post is that you're throwing possible relationships out of the window based on one event that you weren't invited to (you weren't even home, you don't know if they knocked on your door or not!) and a perceived slight the next day. Is there more to the story? If not then the fact that it's this easy for you to go there suggests to me that you have some insecurities when it comes to friendships (most of us do!) and female relationships (maybe stemming back to your step-sisters?) 

My advice would be to not go scorched earth on the neighborhood friendships, but press in and try even harder. Some people take longer to warm up. Don't discount the pandemic and people being weird. Don't discount the fact that they have known each other longer and it may be more comfortable and easy for them to talk with each other. That doesn't mean they don't want to be friends with you, it just means that you don't know them yet. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by importswim

[HS Mom in NC]

12 hours ago, JoyKM said:

 typical female cattiness--

I didn't have a sister around to pull passive aggressive stuff at me and make me expect that sort of behavior from other women.

the difference in how a girl house and (mainly) guy house communicate came into sharp focus.  

My mom, who herself grew up with two sisters (and it shows--it is so easy to hurt her feelings),

I am simply not equipped for this stuff and don't want to turn into that type of woman.  No offense to anyone. 

For someone looking for sympathy at a website full of almost entirely women, your approach is counterproductive.  The better strategy here is a "just the facts, ma'am" description of the situation and a description of your feelings and concerns. You don't need to interpret the situation for posters.

For someone who claims to be anti-drama, your posts are consistently very dramatic. From reading into motives, not making room for exceptional circumstances,  your knee jerk reaction to write everyone in the neighborhood off as potential friends,  your refusal to answer practical questions asked about how you think they should've done it correctly,  your general characterizations of women, your above it all characterization of yourself compared to other women, and which parts of posts you choose to respond to vs. which you choose to leave unaddressed, this woman raised with 3 older brothers and no sisters from a very blunt, plain-spoken family feels obligated to warn you that here at the Well Trained Mind Boards, you will get what you say you want: very direct responses.

If you truly believe what you say in your posts about women, I think it might be coloring your interactions with and reactions to them. It sounds like your expectations of social interactions during a pandemic are unrealistic. It appears to me you are prone to sweeping generalizations and assuming the worst in others. That's a mindset that can change if you decide to change it, consistently practice it,  and teach it to your children.

[Carol in Cal.]

I’d ignore and rise above the Santa thing, but also would consider myself to be on notice that something might be up.  I would not ask about it or refer to it in any way.  I would just keep going as before, and also try to broaden my scope of acquaintances.

Also, just in general, I think that in the last couple of years a lot of people have shifted back away from inclusivity to wanting to only associate with people like them, and that goes double for their young children.  I’ve heard some pretty startling (to me) expressions of this wrt national politics—someone saying he stopped talking to a neighbor completely once he realized that he must have voted for the current president—and this in the context of a beloved and longstanding neighborhood party where both were in attendance, that celebrated a local annual event in a fairly personal way, and where there was probably a pretty even mix of political parties.  And the guy who said this was not a blowhard fanatic type, just a normal, kind of quiet guy, so this ‘feeling’ has migrated deep into populations where I would not have expected it.

That event was in Sept. of last year, and now with COVID any tendency to isolate/pull back is enhanced by public service messages encouraging it.  So I think it’s become a trend, and I don’t see it likely to change.

[73349]

I wouldn't make anything of not being invited to an event that was outdoors that would in any other year be indoors and out of my sight, and especially not one that wasn't of interest to us anyway.

I'm not friends with my neighbors, but if I were looking to be, I would not expect it to happen until the pandemic has died down in my area. It's hard enough to maintain existing friendships. Hopefully next fall. 🍀

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

What I think I’m hearing is that you struggle to recognize social cues and understand social interactions, especially with women(or you may just notice it more there). I have a lifelong inability to completely miss when someone doesn’t like me. I take people at face value and if someone is nice to my face I assume they like me.  This has actually caused some diagnosed PTSD, because when it turns out someone is talking bad about me I get really hurt—or, in one particular disastrous case, it was a boss who actually massively disliked me when I thought we were on good terms and I loved the job. Had I realized, I would have found another job before everything blew up.  I don’t catch the subtle social cues at all and I repeatedly get hurt because I think I’m friends with someone when it turns out we’re not.

Gently, I think you need to lower some expectations.  It sounds as if you had some preconceived notions and are struggling to adapt to a reality that is different than expected.  That can actually be very difficult.  Do you have access to tele-therapy? You’re dealing with a lot during a pandemic.  I think talking to an objective therapist might help you reframe some of these events and feelings.