Covid article

[Scarlett]

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-symptoms-supercomputer-theory-bradykinin-storm-2020-9?fbclid=IwAR3OspFFDfcCPTMRXtmpWloQcxD0YRGDKD-8gJuJxIvcar1SYnRffG7Joaw

 

Has anyone seen this?  Any thoughts on it?

[BeachGal]

It looks like bradykinin storm but they need to do some more studies to confirm it. Allen Kaplan researches Bradykinin storms. He's a good source of information.

Cytokines have shown to be low in a recent study so it might not be cytokine storm but it could also be bradykinin and also (in genetically susceptible people) cytokine storm! Very confusing but they're learning a lot.

[catz]

Like many early theories, more data needed.  But anything that might set some direction for treatments is potentially good news.  

[Scarlett]

Thanks. My non scientific mind can barely digest what they are saying...one thing that stood out to me is that it might be more of a vascular disease than a respiratory. That would explain a lot.  

 

[PrincessMommy]

Here's another article on the same subject.  I was just coming here to post it

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thanks. My non scientific mind can barely digest what they are saying...one thing that stood out to me is that it might be more of a vascular disease than a respiratory. That would explain a lot.  

 

Yes! See, for example, https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/09/evidence-slowly-building-for-long-term-heart-problems-post-covid-19/

[Pen]

I’m getting multiple “redirects” such that I can’t load those, but I was following Bradykinin discussion on DrBeen videos.  

I believe it is yet another reason to make sure Vitamin D is optimized. 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Pen

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

I’m getting multiple “redirects” such that I can’t load those, but I was following Bradykinin discussion on DrBeen videos.  

I believe it is yet another reason to make sure Vitamin D is optimized. 

 

That is weird.  My co-worker had the same issue loading it on his work computer....but on my work computer it was fine.

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thanks. My non scientific mind can barely digest what they are saying...one thing that stood out to me is that it might be more of a vascular disease than a respiratory. That would explain a lot.  

 

Yes, an ICU doctor months ago said that very thing - that it was a vascular disease primarily, which makes total sense. It explains both the lung issues (tiny hemmoraghes in the lungs), the heart problems, the kidney problems, the skin problems, the GI tract problems, the brain effects, etc etc. I think we lost a LOT of time and a lot of lives not realizing this earlier. We were treating it as a respiratory illnesses where if it got really bad other organs would be collateral damage from the low oxygen, when actually they were directly being damaged and a lot of people without severe respiratory symptoms were still very sick. We just didn't recognize it. 

[JennyD]

I've been following this theory and it is super interesting.  Here's another article that goes into some detail. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by JennyD

[Farrar]

In as much as I understand it, I think it seems plausible and promising. Anything that helps us understand this further at this point is at least somewhat promising. And this could potentially lead to some treatments down the line.

[BeachGal]

A bradykinin storm was not suspected earlier because some of the symptoms were what you’d see in a cytokine storm which is more likely to occur during a viral infection in genetically susceptible people. It’s possible that both a bradykinin and cytokine storm are occurring. There are also a few other wonky things they’re trying to figure out.

The biomarkers that point to a cytokine storm are also easier to measure than bradykinin.

http://www.angioedemacenter.com/2016/04/qotw-any-idea-as-to-when-a-test-for-bradykinin-may-be-available-to-help-finally-diagnose-hae-nl-c1-inh/

Quote

Dr R: Bradykinin is a difficult molecule to measure reliably as the levels can be greatly influenced by a number of factors: tissue trauma from the blood draw, the type of collection tubes used, temperature, processing variability, etc. It’s also a molecule that’s degraded very rapidly (within seconds) unless a cocktail of stabilizing inhibitors are used in the lab tubes for blood collection. All of these factors add up to a very challenging test that’s highly susceptible to error and variability. Due to these obstacles, researchers have continued to investigate other lab tests or biomarkers that would be more feasible and more accurate for use in the clinical settings when bradykinin-mediated angioedema is suspected but C1INH function is normal. These include looking “upstream” at things such as kallikrein activity and “downstream” at measurements of more stable metabolites or by-products of bradykinin production, all of which could identify excessive contact system activation and ultimately bradykinin production. None of these tests are ready for prime time yet as these assays need to be studied in relatively large groups of people with various subtypes of angioedema as well as people without angioedema so that we can be confident they accurately identify or classify a bradykinin-mediated swelling condition. This data is being collected at various research centers, including the Angioedema Center at UCSD, with the goal of having a useful lab test within the next year or two. However it’s hard to predict exactly how quickly this will happen until we have the study data in hand.

At this point, researchers are still trying to work out exactly what’s happening. They’re getting there but it will take time.

[BeachGal]

18 hours ago, Pen said:

I’m getting multiple “redirects” such that I can’t load those, but I was following Bradykinin discussion on DrBeen videos.  

I believe it is yet another reason to make sure Vitamin D is optimized. 

 

Yes, making sure vitamin D is in the healthy upper range is a good idea. It’s easy to do a finger prick test at home. Our family has used this one for years. It’s a grassroots effort run by MDs and researchers to study the effects of vitamin D.

https://daction.grassrootshealth.net/tests/

Or, if your state permits it, you could order a lab test online. Life Extension is selling them for about $35 now. Order online, print out your order, take it in to a nearby lab, get blood withdrawn, wait for results.

https://www.lifeextension.com/lab-testing/itemlc081950/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy-blood-test