Those of you with teens that wake up in the afternoon...

[ChocolateCake]

How do you manage your time and schedule your day?  My 13ds has recently started sleeping more.  I guess puberty is on the horizon.  I am up by 8 to take care of my 5dd.  I do her work with her after breakfast.  Late morning and sometimes early afternoon are reserved to work with my 11dd.  We are usually done by  1:00 when my ds13 wakes up.  We all eat together and I do read alouds and then he has to do his work.  I check in with him at 3:00 but he's not always done by then. Lately, he's taking longer to do his reading comprehension (literature guides) and sometimes isn't done with his work until after dinner.  Sometimes I walk in and he's just staring at the wall bouncing his basketball. I feel like my day is getting longer.  How do you parents manage this stage?

ETA: Telling me to just have him wake up earlier isn't helpful hence the title of my post.  TIA!

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by ChocolateCake

[8filltheheart]

Are you saying your 13 yr old sleeps until 1 and then isn't finished with his school work at 3 and it is going until dinner time?  

Is he in 7th or 8th grade?  I would anticipate his school day lasting about 6 hrs. If he isn't starting until 1, I wouldn't expect him to done until 7.

To answer your question as to how do I deal with it, I would never let my kids sleep until 1.  Never.  I expect my kids up and functioning in the morning.  It isn't even a debatable concept. (and I have been through the teenage yrs 6 times and have a 15 yr old right now.)   

But, that may not be the type of input you want to hear.  🙂 Maybe some night owls will offer insight. 

[Guest]

I would agree. Being time shifted isn't the end of the world (I have a DH who is on software teams with people in both the US and SIngapore. If he did a 9-5 schedule, he would never overlap half of the people he works with), but you won't be done at 3:00 if you start at 1:00 in middle school. In practice, we found that by the teen years, we had to be on a fairly regular daytime schedule because social stuff, extracurriculars, job oportunities for teens assumed they would be available after school, and if she slept in, she simply didn't have time to do both what needed done and what she wanted to do.

[rebcoola]

They just work until they are done.  They work into the evenings and around their activities.  They can do a good chunk of their work without me and don't have anything together anymore so it doesn'tess up the day for anyone else.  If that doesn't work than they have to get up earlier.  

Edited August 13, 2020 by rebcoola

[ChocolateCake]

OK.  We aren't worrying about extracurriculars currently so that's not an issue.  If we have an outing, I change his schedule for the day and make it lighter.  We school year-round so that's easy to do.  I don't expect him to finish in 2 hours but I do need to go over some work with him and there is also work that he does with me (it's actually faster that way). So, I'm trying to figure out which subjects to have him do and in what order.  Part of the time shift is that he's sleeping more and part is that his work is getting harder.  He will start 8th grade next month. We're doing summer school right now.  We're all night owls as it's the only way we get to spend time with my husband so I'm not willing to change that right now.

[ChocolateCake]

Just now, WendyAndMilo said:

You need to pretend like he's 5 and make him sit with you to do his schoolwork.  If he needs to do X and Y with you then you schedule those when *you* are available and you make him sit there and get it done.  And then he can work on Z and everything else until 7 or 8ish.

DS is doing the same thing and honestly, the day goes soooo much better when I'm there to work on stuff with him.  Especially with work getting harder and going through brain fog.

Would it be possible for him to wake up earlier and take a 1-2 hour nap mid afternoon?

I have three kids and can't nap and he doesn't even nap in the car so I don't think so, LOL!  Yes, the 3:00pm time is when I check in to go over things but he is taking longer and sometimes hasn't even finished answering comprehension questions by 3:00.  I don't know if I will need to make some subjects "night subjects" that I check the next day.  I may need to experiment a bit with that as I was hoping to ramp up his work load a little for 8th.  I could give him the option of doing work on the weekend which I know will motivate him to finish his work during the week.😉

[8filltheheart]

DOes he need to work in his room?  I personally don't allow my kids to work in their rooms unless they are mature enough to handle that responsibility.  (My sons were never there in 8th grade.)  If he can work at the kitchen table or in the main living space, I would keep him there so you can point out to him that he isn't staying on task.  Being alone in their bedrooms is way too much temptation to not stay on task.   

[ChocolateCake]

1 minute ago, WendyAndMilo said:

When you say check-in, is he sitting there with you or somewhere else?  I'm trying to get a picture here...

Also, checking work goes so much better when you do it right then because there is no guarantee that he will remember anything the next day 😉 

I am standing in his room while he is at his desk with his work.  I either go over answers or have him answer orally or sometimes I just wait for him to finish since it's a short subject and it would take more time to leave and come back.  

[ChocolateCake]

1 minute ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

DOes he need to work in his room?  I personally don't allow my kids to work in their rooms unless they are mature enough to handle that responsibility.  (My sons were never there in 8th grade.)  If he can work at the kitchen table or in the main living space, I would keep him there so you can point out to him that he isn't staying on task.  Being alone in their bedrooms is way too much temptation to not stay on task.   

He wouldn't get anything done in the living room because my girls are LOUD and my 5 y/o will bother him.  He's easily disturbed by noise so that's why his room is the best option for him.  That's why we got him a desk for his room and all his books are in there.😀

[8filltheheart]

1 minute ago, ChocolateCake said:

He wouldn't get anything done in the living room because my girls are LOUD and my 5 y/o will bother him.  He's easily disturbed by noise so that's why his room is the best option for him.  That's why we got him a desk for his room and all his books are in there.😀

I suspect if you got noise canceling headphones and prevented the 5 yr old from pestering him that he would get more done in the main living space than in his room.  

If his room is the only option, then it is going to be hard to keep him on task and focused bc you aren't there to observe and redirect him. It is a lot of responsibility to be self-directed at 13 and a lot of kids that age can't handle it.  

[ChocolateCake]

Just now, WendyAndMilo said:

Yeah, that's a problem.  Do you have noise-cancelling headphones?  He really does need to be right there with you or this is a battle you will be fighting every.single.day.

Can you get him to run around the block a few times?  Do jumping jacks or push-ups in the backyard?  You can separate every subject with physical activity for 5-10 minutes which helps a lot.

He can hear through the noise-cancelling headphones.  I can see about adding in some physical activity.

[Lori D.]

DS#2 has always struggled to fall asleep at night -- often he would go to bed at 9pm and still be awake at 2am. (He has also always had that "super sonic" hearing, and was bothered by the least little noise -- as a teen, he would play music on his iPod and listen via his earbuds, and that seemed to help block noise for him.)

And when he hit the teens, his body even more wanted to stay up into the wee hours and sleep very late. But, that just was not workable for the family, and frankly, it wasn't healthy for him. So we compromised.

He could sleep until about 9am, and we'd start school about 9:30am. Subjects that required the most brain power were saved for after lunch when he was more alert.

AND the biggest part of it was making sure he got daily strenuous physical activity or aerobic exercise to help tire him out. Swimming laps for 40 minutes worked the best, but it also was good when he was in tennis season playing for the local public high school team. That helped tire out his body so that it was a bit easier for him to actually fall asleep at night.

Side note: going into the teen years is when many young people kick into depression, and getting the sleep cycle turned backwards like this can be a sign of depression. Regular physical aerobic exercise can help throw off anxiety/depression and it releases endorphins and serotonin which help the body relax and sleep at night. But even if getting strenuous regular exercise for at least 30-45 min/session and getting that exercise at least 4-5x/week is not helping, I would look into causes and treatments of teen depression, and if possible, nip that before it can get a grip. (I've had life-long reoccurring bouts of depression that started when I was 13yo, and because I didn't get diagnosed until a good 20 years later, it has been a huge struggle in my life.)

And finally, NO screens after 9pm -- the light/screen-redraw cycle of screens fires brain cells and they can still keep triggering up to 2 hours after you have stopped looking at the screen, which keeps the brain revved up.

You might also look into black out curtains in his room, a white noise generator, and having him take melatonin, so that he is getting good, deep sleep at night. He may be not be sleeping well due to too much light in his room, or sounds disturbing his sleep cycle, especially if he's a light sleeper. If his sleep cycle is continually being disrupted, he might be feeling exhausted and like he needs to sleep late into the morning or after noon to try and make up for the "lost sleep".

Edited August 14, 2020 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

What about having the 5 yr old play in her room?  Not let the younger kids be loud? Play classical music/sound tracks (like LOTR) in headphones?

But, it doesn't sound like you want to change anything with your current routine, so having late nights yourself is probably your best option in order to fit everything in.

[ChocolateCake]

9 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

DS#2 has always struggled to fall asleep at night -- often he would go to bed at 9pm and still be awake at 2am. (He has also always had that "super sonic" hearing, and was bothered by the least little noise -- as a teen, he would play music on his iPod and listen via his earbuds, and that seemed to help block noise for him.)

And when he hit the teens, his body even more wanted to stay up into the wee hours and sleep very late. But, that just was not workable for the family, and frankly, it wasn't healthy for him. So we compromised.

He could sleep until about 9am, and we'd start school about 9:30am. Subjects that required the most brain power were saved for after lunch when he was more alert.

AND the biggest part of it was making sure he got daily strenuous physical activity or aerobic exercise to help tire him out. Swimming laps for 40 minutes worked the best, but it also was good when he was in tennis season playing for the local public high school team. That helped tire out his body so that it was a bit easier for him to actually fall asleep at night.

Side note: going into the teen years is when many young people kick into depression, and getting the sleep cycle turned backwards like this can be a sign of depression. Regular physical aerobic exercise can help throw off anxiety/depression and it releases endorphins and serotonin which help the body relax and sleep at night.

And finally, NO screens after 9pm -- the light/screen-redraw cycle of screens fires brain cells and they can still keep triggering up to 2 hours after you have stopped looking at the screen, which keeps the brain revved up.

You might also look into black out curtains in his room, a white noise generator, and having him take melatonin, so that he is getting good, deep sleep at night. He may be not be sleeping well due to too much light in his room, or sounds disturbing his sleep cycle, especially if he's a light sleeper. If his sleep cycle is continually being disrupted, he might be feeling exhausted and like he needs to sleep late into the morning or after noon to try and make up for the "lost sleep".

I don't think there's a sleeping problem.  He goes to bed late normally  (11:30-12:00) and is now sleeping 12-13 hours.  I used to have him wake up at 9:45 but he was hardly growing and we were concerned there was a problem (fortunately his medical test results were normal).  He has blackout curtains and exercises every day.  We limit screens and his wifi goes off at 9:00.  I could always increase his activity though since he is getting older and is finally taller than me. I'm tiny...hence the worry about his not growing.  I just figured somebody on here has probably BTDT with a teen boy like this.😀

[Lori D.]

31 minutes ago, ChocolateCake said:

I don't think there's a sleeping problem.  He goes to bed late normally  (11:30-12:00) and is now sleeping 12-13 hours.  I used to have him wake up at 9:45 but he was hardly growing and we were concerned there was a problem (fortunately his medical test results were normal).  He has blackout curtains and exercises every day.  We limit screens and his wifi goes off at 9:00.  I could always increase his activity though since he is getting older and is finally taller than me. I'm tiny...hence the worry about his not growing.  I just figured somebody on here has probably BTDT with a teen boy like this.😀

Yes, my DS#2 was exactly like that -- he would have slept past noon if I'd allowed it. 😉 We used black out curtains and a lot of regular strenuous/aerobic physical activity, plus limited screens after 8pm -- and DS#2 still struggled to fall asleep -- but at least those techniques helped somewhat. I wish I had known about the melatonin when he was a teen, as I think it might have been an additional help.

One last thought -- sleeping 12-13 hours doesn't mean it's the deep sleep/complete sleep cycle needed for *restful* or *restorative* sleep. Yes, hormones/growing teens DO need more sleep, and they DO naturally shift their sleep cycle to staying up later and sleeping later in the morning -- but sleeping past 10am, even if not going to bed by midnight, suggests he's not getting the right kind of sleep -- or, that he is waking up too late in the day, so waking up in the wrong part of his sleep cycle. There may be an issue with sleep apnea or asthma, or even a circadian rhythm sleep disorder that could be treated to improve his sleep to help with his overall well-being and ability to function within family and outside-family normal hours.

A number of things to possibly look into... Just a few more thoughts, and wishing you and DS all the BEST. Warmest regards, Lori D. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Lori D.

[kiwik]

What does he say? Does he feel rested when he wakes up?  I would go back to waking him up.  Even if he could start school at 12 it would help.  

[Sneezyone]

I grin and bear it. DS gets up early (6-7a) and does some chores (trash, unloading the dishwasher, laundry), gets a workout/shower in, and maybe some homework but then crashes by 11a and won't wake until 2p. He does the bulk of his work then. It's fine. As long as his work is getting done (with lots of reminders), I'm OK with it. He needs the rest and he functions better when he's well rested. Growing requires a lot of energy. The blessing of homeschool is being able to work with/around these biological/physiological needs. DS always goes to bed NLT 10p w/o reminders so he's not staying up late.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Wheres Toto]

On 8/13/2020 at 7:35 PM, ChocolateCake said:

OK.  We aren't worrying about extracurriculars currently so that's not an issue.  If we have an outing, I change his schedule for the day and make it lighter.  We school year-round so that's easy to do.  I don't expect him to finish in 2 hours but I do need to go over some work with him and there is also work that he does with me (it's actually faster that way). So, I'm trying to figure out which subjects to have him do and in what order.  Part of the time shift is that he's sleeping more and part is that his work is getting harder.  He will start 8th grade next month. We're doing summer school right now.  We're all night owls as it's the only way we get to spend time with my husband so I'm not willing to change that right now.

 

My newly 15 year old is on a stay-up-late and sleep half the day schedule right now.  Part of it's that it's summer and it will change naturally once our classes and other stuff start up again.  But it sounds like you don't want to change it necessarily since you say the night owl schedule works for you.

If there's stuff you need to go over but not necessarily WITH him, just grading or checking answers, I'd do it whenever it's convenient for you, and write comments or notes.  I do this with my son's math.  Anything he gets wrong, he needs to go over it and try again.  If he gets a lot wrong, I assign extra videos to watch or additional resources to go over the concept again (my son hates having me teach him math, he likes figuring it out for himself), then have him do the problems again.     

If there was something like literature answers, I'd give him the option of getting up earlier so we could do it orally/discussion at a time that is convenient to me, or he would have to write/type out his answers FULLY and send/give it to me to go over when it's convenient to me.  

Maybe choose one or two days a week where he gets up earlier to do the stuff he absolutely has to do sitting with you but use other methods the other days.  

[City Mouse]

If you are gong to let hm sleep that late, then you are going to have to be willing for him to do his school work into the evenings and/or on the weekends, but it can be done. When my DS was that age, I worked full time so most of his schoolwork was done 4:00-9:00pm. 
 

[catz]

My teen was sleeping in until noon all summer.  I have always enforced a wake up time.  This fall for my 16 year old it is 9 to 9:30.  Especially if your teen is needing direction to stay on track, I don't think it's the end of the world to require a kid to get up earlier. It's not like getting them up at 6 am 2 hours before school to catch the bus and their sleep schedule will adjust accordingly.  The first 2-3 weeks are always an adjustment.  For my sanity, the vast majority of the time I want to be off duty as school enforcer by about 3 pm.  And I certainly wouldn't be willing to do it from 8 am until after dinner.  

ETA - I just caught the OP's edit.  If you want him to sleep in, then you just need to enforce.  We've shifted to a later schedule at times when my kids have had theater production with late tech rehearsals or shows.  But I know I personally am not doing the best keeping them on track.  I think homeschooling has to work for both parties for it to work well.  I've also never had my kids working in their own rooms regularly or away.  We've always schooled in the main area of the house.  So if he's in his room getting distracted having a work space more central may be helpful.

Edited September 16, 2020 by FuzzyCatz