Anyone want to talk about Falwell opening Liberty University back up?

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, GGardner said:

 

You are misreading me.  I am not saying what should or should not happen from a moral perspective.  I am saying it is highly unlikely that any LU board member will face legal consequences for what happened at LU.  I am saying that boards of directors or trustees of very large organizations often don't have the oversight capabilities that we might like them to have, and  vanishingly rarely face legal consequences for the misdeeds of the organizations they represent.  Jerry Fallwell Jr's brother was on the LU board for his entire tenure, and no one thought that was a conflict of interest.

You nailed it. This is an excerpt from a politico article:

If you teach or work at Liberty, you must get approval from Falwell’s office before you speak to the media. Talk to reporters without his approval—or publicly criticize him, even obliquely—and you could lose your job. If you’re a board member and do the same, you could get forced out, even if you have unimpeachable credentials in the Christian conservative movement.

[HS Mom in NC]

2 hours ago, GGardner said:

 

You are misreading me.  I am not saying what should or should not happen from a moral perspective.  I am saying it is highly unlikely that any LU board member will face legal consequences for what happened at LU.  I am saying that boards of directors or trustees of very large organizations often don't have the oversight capabilities that we might like them to have, and  vanishingly rarely face legal consequences for the misdeeds of the organizations they represent.  Jerry Fallwell Jr's brother was on the LU board for his entire tenure, and no one thought that was a conflict of interest.

I apologize for not being more careful about reading your response and falsely assuming you were another Falwell apologist. Please forgive me.  I was wrong.

1 minute ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I apologize for not being more careful about reading your response and falsely assuming you were another Falwell apologist. Please forgive me.  I was wrong.

 

No worries.  Tone is hard to convey in text, and I'm frequently no good at it.

So here's an open question:  How should the trustees of a place like LU be chosen?  I believe that, de facto, board members were chosen by the Falwells.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

Yup, I read that and other articles bashing this man's hypocrisy and did not post the links here because of reference to Falwell's politics and his LGBTQ stance in all of those articles (because, no politics on this forum ... )

 

My understanding is that discussion of public figures and their personal lives and/or hypocritical ways has always been tolerated, or even political topics from an academic perspective.  Judgment about such views that is likely to delve into personal attacks is what isn't tolerated.   And it's shut down when it turns into personal attacks.

[HS Mom in NC]

14 hours ago, GGardner said:

No worries.  Tone is hard to convey in text, and I'm frequently no good at it.

So here's an open question:  How should the trustees of a place like LU be chosen?  I believe that, de facto, board members were chosen by the Falwells.

Definitely not by the chancellor.  That's whose power they're keeping in check.  I don't know what the structure of LU is like, so I can only speak to general principles and goals for decision making.

Since LU is a university, a business, and place for training future spiritual leaders, there's going to have to be a mix of board members that all meet the biblical criteria for church leadership, while having at least a few with experience in each of those areas.  They need to hire people who understand the importance of accountability and transparency and have experience operating that way. They need to hire truly independent auditing services on a regular basis. Hiring from the outside so that there's no ambivalence about firing people for cause is important. Hiring people who agree that criminal behavior should be reported to the legal authorities. All salaries should be set to hit the intersection of modest living with reasonable benefits and cost of living in the area. Likewise the campus housing, amenities, and required books should be modest to keep costs as low as possible for students.  Codes of conduct should apply universally to all staff and students. Hiring relatives shouldn't be allowed.

There are churches that operate that way with multiple elders and committees of people who have to reach consensus to before actions can be taken.  They also have the power to bring problems before the congregation. Church discipline policies apply to everyone, including leadership. That way nothing is being done in secret or by a single person. Is it going to avoid every potential problem?  No.  But it does dramatically decrease problems festering for lack of daylight. I've attended churches where when it came to voting, family members were not allowed to vote on issues directly related to staff members. My FIL was church administrator so my family sat out quite a few votes. We weren't allowed in the room during the discussion or the voting either, so people felt freer to speak if they took issue with something.

And for the record, I practice what I preach.  When my FIL broke confidence in front of me and others about someone's personal counseling and prayer requests of struggling with sin (not sins that were criminal) I notified the elders about what was said and who was present when it was said to let them deal with it. They fired him from his unpaid position. I've been to churches where staff members caught in adultery (not with each other) were immediately fired:music minister and secretary. I've seen under the table financial transactions by elders brought to light to the congregation by another elder and the resulting lack of repentance ended in 80% of the congregation (and 2 of the 4 elders) finding other churches where everyone has to play by the same rules and no one is exempt or special. I've been to a church where business meetings require people to first show in scripture where the church is commanded to spend funds on any proposal.  That church had a huge ministry to people classified as widows: any single woman with any type of financial need.

[mathnerd]

My understanding is that LU is a not-for-profit educational institution. Which means that they should be held to very high standards when it comes to eliminating financial irregularities. There have been statements by LU officials who have said that they are taking student's money and operating a Real Estate Hedge Fund for the benefit of Falwell's friends and family instead of an educational institution. If this is the culture that they were putting up with, then, the entire board and trustees should be replaced and there should be a probe into financial irregularities.

54 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

My understanding is that LU is a not-for-profit educational institution....

If this is the culture that they were putting up with, then, the entire board and trustees should be replaced and there should be a probe into financial irregularities.

 

I agree that the whole board of trustees should be replaced, so who should do the choosing of these new board members?  I suspect when LU was founded as a small college, Jerry Fallwell Sr as the founder hand-selected the board (how else would you do it), but then that tradition just continued to this day.

My hypothetical question was -- "how should the board of trustees be chosen for such an organization"?  For a corporation (public or private), the stockholders vote for the board.  For small churches I'm familiar with, it is the vote of all the enrolled members. For public colleges, the state government picks the board.  Is it crazy to suggest that the LU alumni vote for the board?  I've never heard of this kind of governance.

Oh, and thank you all for taking me down this interesting rabbit-hole.  When I teach civics, I've only covered government (mainly federal, but some state and local too).  I now realize that "civics" should also cover this kind of civic-engagement with private institutions as well.  I don't suppose anyone has curriculum recommendations?

[Sneezyone]

18 minutes ago, GGardner said:

Oh, and thank you all for taking me down this interesting rabbit-hole.  When I teach civics, I've only covered government (mainly federal, but some state and local too).  I now realize that "civics" should also cover this kind of civic-engagement with private institutions as well.  I don't suppose anyone has curriculum recommendations?

 

Not a curric. but Management Cases by Drucker is a classic. Get an early version, not a new revised one. Also Greenleaf's Servant Leadership books: https://www.amazon.com/Servant-Leadership-Legitimate-Greatness-Anniversary/dp/0809105543/ref=sr_1_2?crid=ZVXKYY1NQOK1&dchild=1&keywords=servant+leadership+robert+greenleaf&qid=1598545977&s=books&sprefix=servant+lead%2Cstripbooks%2C256&sr=1-2. Public and non-profit leadership/management was my area of undergrad/graduate study. It's a perfect fit for an AP Gov class (which, frankly, tends to be kind of weak/easy). Even in MS discussions, I incorporate with DS the idea of leadership and we assess both what his idea of a good leader is (by looking at case studies and historical record) and whether current leaders possess those characteristics or the capacity to develop them.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Not a curric. but Management Cases by Drucker is a classic. Get an early version, not a new revised one. Also Greenleaf's Servant Leadership books: https://www.amazon.com/Servant-Leadership-Legitimate-Greatness-Anniversary/dp/0809105543/ref=sr_1_2?crid=ZVXKYY1NQOK1&dchild=1&keywords=servant+leadership+robert+greenleaf&qid=1598545977&s=books&sprefix=servant+lead%2Cstripbooks%2C256&sr=1-2. Public and non-profit leadership/management was my area of undergrad/graduate study. It's a perfect fit for an AP Gov class (which, frankly, tends to be kind of weak/easy). Even in MS discussions, I incorporate with DS the idea of leadership and we assess both what his idea of a good leader is (by looking at case studies and historical record) and whether current leaders possess those characteristics or the capacity to develop them.

 

Whoa...Hive Mind.

Bill

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Not a curric. but Management Cases by Drucker is a classic. Get an early version, not a new revised one. Also Greenleaf's Servant Leadership books: https://www.amazon.com/Servant-Leadership-Legitimate-Greatness-Anniversary/dp/0809105543/ref=sr_1_2?crid=ZVXKYY1NQOK1&dchild=1&keywords=servant+leadership+robert+greenleaf&qid=1598545977&s=books&sprefix=servant+lead%2Cstripbooks%2C256&sr=1-2. Public and non-profit leadership/management was my area of undergrad/graduate study. It's a perfect fit for an AP Gov class (which, frankly, tends to be kind of weak/easy). Even in MS discussions, I incorporate with DS the idea of leadership and we assess both what his idea of a good leader is (by looking at case studies and historical record) and whether current leaders possess those characteristics or the capacity to develop them.

 

Thanks for the recommendations, and I've got questions for you.  Because I'm still going down this rabbit-hole, I learned that the LU articles of incorporation require that the board itself selects replacements for board members who leave for whatever reason.  So, I guess there's no way to replace the whole board at once. While maybe this  setup makes sense for the small neighborhood non-profit, how common is this for a multi-billion dollar operation, even a non-profit one?

Edited August 27, 2020 by GGardner

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, GGardner said:

 

Thanks for the recommendations, and I've got questions for you.  Because I'm still going down this rabbit-hole, I learned that the LU articles of incorporation require that the board itself selects replacements for board members who leave for whatever reason.  So, I guess there's no way to replace the whole board at once. While maybe this  setup makes sense for the small neighborhood non-profit, how common is this for a multi-billion dollar operation, even a non-profit one?

 

That's fairly common. The initial board is chosen during incorporation and it becomes self-perpetuating. A search subcommittee is usually formed to identify/vet prospective candidates. In theory, this allows greater continuity for the organization. It preserves institutional memory. In practice, it can perpetuate some bad habits and prevent infusions of new thought and/or effective oversight. People become too close/insular. Anyone should be able to recommend or nominate a prospective board member (depending on the bylaws) but in practice, there's often a limited, self-perpetuating pool of local, regional, or national mucky-mucks that gets picked over/recommended by all non-profits.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[KungFuPanda]

Welp, my library has that Unlikely Disciple book, so now I've got to pick that up.  This will be my first foray into curbside pickup.  Until now it's been all ebooks for months. 

30 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 in practice, there's often a limited, self-perpetuating pool of local, regional, or national mucky-mucks that gets picked over/recommended by all non-profits.

 

Thanks!  I think this reinforces my feeling that frequently (not always, but frequently) boards just aren't structurally set up to provide a huge amount of oversight, or say "no".  Consider that LU's board has many of the country's most prominent SBC pastors on it, many of whom run huge churches, sit on several other boards, and have all kinds of other commitments.

If you'll indulge me another question, how many hours is an outside board member expected to work per year on the organization's business, when the organization is a huge, billion dollar business?  LU's board only met formally twice a year.

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, GGardner said:

 

Thanks!  I think this reinforces my feeling that frequently (not always, but frequently) boards just aren't structurally set up to provide a huge amount of oversight, or say "no".  Consider that LU's board has many of the country's most prominent SBC pastors on it, many of whom run huge churches, sit on several other boards, and have all kinds of other commitments.

If you'll indulge me another question, how many hours is an outside board member expected to work per year on the organization's business, when the organization is a huge, billion dollar business?  LU's board only met formally twice a year.

 

It depends. For mid-size to large orgs there are staff who put together board presentations, packets of financial docs, and reading material which go out before/between board meetings. Whether these are read or just glanced at, I don't know. Based on the presentations I've given over the years, and some of the rudimentary questions that were asked by board members, I'm doubtful that they pay too much attention in the absence of complaints that bubble up. The level of work boards do varies CONSIDERABLY depending on the size of the organization and its overall culture. Some board members do a lot and are very active. One small non-profit I worked at in Zion, IL had a very involved board by necessity. Many of them also had adult children or siblings who were clients of the agency. Most boards I've seen do very little. It's a glorified fundraising gig and networking/resume-padder for a lot of people.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[HS Mom in NC]

On board governance and Christian non-profits from Christianity Today. I read the text of the highlights in the article, I didn't listen to the podcast. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/august-web-only/jerry-becki-falwell-resigns-board-governance.html

[fairfarmhand]

“Liberty’s true social code, the one they don’t put in a forty-six-page manual, has everything to do with being a social and religious conservative and not a whole lot to do with acting in any traditionally virtuous way.“

an apt quote from the book “the unlikely disciple” by Kevin roose 

On 8/28/2020 at 8:26 PM, fairfarmhand said:

“Liberty’s true social code, the one they don’t put in a forty-six-page manual, has everything to do with being a social and religious conservative and not a whole lot to do with acting in any traditionally virtuous way.“

 

Go on....

I assume there's one code for the students, which is enforced, and another for those in charge?

[HS Mom in NC]

Aaaand now LU has hired a forensic firm to look into finances. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-investigation/index.html

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Aaaand now LU has hired a forensic firm to look into finances. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-investigation/index.html

Shocking.  Not. 

[El...]

4 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Aaaand now LU has hired a forensic firm to look into finances. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-investigation/index.html

It occurs to me that LU will save a lot of money in contract payout if they can find that Falwell's being removed for fraud, in addition to perviness.

[Pam in CT]

7 hours ago, elroisees said:

It occurs to me that LU will save a lot of money in contract payout if they can find that Falwell's being removed for fraud, in addition to perviness.

Indeed. His $10.5 million cash payout just for starters. (There may also be post-severance health care/pension/other benefits; given the lifestyle he's led and his apparent conflation between the university and himself it would not shock me if there were provisions in his contract for ongoing living expense / access to university resources including the private plans and services of Freedom Aviation, the charter plane/refueling business he brought into the university's assets and took a particular personal interest in.)  As well, several of the accounts of the investment in the pool boy's business and other unusual real estate deals have included accounts of sizable "loans" from university assets to the businesses which Falwell helped establish/support; establishing his personal fraud could, conceivably, help the university dig out from those. 

[HS Mom in NC]

7 hours ago, elroisees said:

It occurs to me that LU will save a lot of money in contract payout if they can find that Falwell's being removed for fraud, in addition to perviness.

Yep. 

Seems like this story isn't going to end any time soon --

The newly appointed, interim president had to tell Liberty employees to stop answering Jerry Fallwell's phone calls during work hours:

https://www.newsweek.com/jerry-falwell-jr-allegedly-made-uncomfortable-calls-liberty-university-staff-1529914. 

Also, his older son and his brother are still on the board, with the son holding the position of Vice President of University Support Services.  This position "works directly with the COO and president to identify and execute opportunities for growth, improved productivity, and organizational effectiveness", which seems like a sinecure to me.

Furthermore, both of his sons, and both of their wives, are on still on the payroll of the University.  I guess if your Dad founded the place, it is hard to think of it as anything but the family business.

[Pam in CT]

Reuters also did a good dive a few days ago into the financial complexities the university is looking to untangle, including some of the ties with his kids:

How Jerry Falwell Jr Mixed His Personal Finances with His University's

Quote

...Falwell, who took over as president of Liberty in 2007 after years as a lawyer handling its real estate interests, intertwined his personal finances with those of the evangelical Christian university founded by his father.

He put his two sons - and their wives as well - on the university’s payroll. He arranged the transfer of a multi-acre Liberty facility to his personal trainer. He enlisted a friend’s construction company to manage an ambitious campus expansion costing hundreds of millions of dollars.

And before becoming school president, Falwell set up two companies that enabled him to cut property deals with one of the many nonprofit entities affiliated with the university, Reuters found. In each of the deals, Falwell played multiple roles with potentially conflicting interests: He was an officer of the university, a board member for the nonprofit selling the land, and a private developer who could profit from the transactions...

...In 2001, property records show, Falwell set up a private company while he was a lawyer for Liberty, used it to buy an undeveloped tract of land from the school, and then developed a strip mall on the plot. The company sold the property five years later at a significant premium.

In 2005, property records show, Falwell again acted as a private businessman when a university nonprofit affiliate and a company he operated joined together to sell land to a third company - controlled by Falwell’s real estate partner.

And in 2012, in a project Falwell launched as Liberty’s president, the university spent more than $2 million to build a tunnel that links the campus to another shopping plaza near campus. Falwell is a part owner of that shopping plaza...

...Falwell said in interviews that Liberty will pay him $10.5 million as part of a severance and retirement package. Liberty declined to comment on the terms or the amount.

Liberty’s board of trustees subsequently announced it was hiring “one of the leading forensic firms in the world to conduct a thorough investigation” that will examine the school’s operations under Falwell, including financial and real estate matters. It declined to name the firm...

...[Falwell] warned Reuters not to question his two adult sons, both of whom still have jobs at Liberty. “Trust me,” Falwell said during the call, “you do not want to mess with me, OK?”

Liberty employed a private firm - JF Management - formed by Jerry “Trey” Falwell III, Falwell’s elder son, to manage university properties. The company received more than $58,000 in compensation in 2017, according to the school’s most recent public filing of tax form 990 with the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. Trey Falwell also serves as a Liberty vice president, with total compensation from the university of $189,000 a year, according to the tax filings.

Falwell’s other son, Wesley, drew compensation in 2017 from Liberty of $54,744, the filings show. Laura Falwell, Wesley’s wife, earned $57,751 that year from Liberty, and Sarah Falwell, Trey’s wife, earned $63,315.

 

[KungFuPanda]

I got the book!  Reading it now.  Fascinating!  It reads a LOT like some of the FLDS books I've read.  I grew up in a fundamentalist church in the 80s and I'd forgotten about some of the religious trends/vocabulary at the time.  Liberty University definitely has that church camp vibe.  I'm only a few chapters in, but I'm feeling for this kid from Brown trying to fit in and control his face.

Another good article about LU from the Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/articles/after-jerry-falwell-jr-a-reckoning-for-liberty-university-11599384600

This confirms what I has guessed earlier -- LU's board was completely hands-off.  They only met twice a year, each for three hours.  Several board members resigned years ago when they saw that they were given responsibility but no authority, and were replaced by those would be quiet.

I wonder how many other large institutions operate this way?