Uni in UK or Ireland...experiences?

[MEmama]

DS is seriously thinking about attending university in either the UK or in Ireland. We are doing our research, reading everything we can find on college confidential and so on, but I thought I’d ask here for insight, advice, etc. 

We are planning a trip this spring. He wants to visit UCI in London, University of Edinburgh, UCD (Dublin) and Trinity, and possibly Galway if we can fit it in. He’s already secured several campus tours for international prospects. In addition to the more common questions, are there UK/Irish specific questions we might overlook? Any major differences we might not know to ask about vs American universities? 

One of his concerns, of course, is future prospects of staying and working in post Brexit UK, which has dampened his enthusiasm for London (previously a Big Goal). We hope but don’t know if Scotland will be more welcoming in several more years, assuming it succeeds in becoming independent. Ireland, it appears, is booming and will gain from London's losses. Certainly Dublin has a large CS industry, only likely to continue growing.

I'd love to hear any “boots on the ground” experiences or insights. There is so much to navigate and we all have various concerns and considerations between him staying in the US or gaining international experience. 

[Laura Corin]

I work for a British university, if that helps. The thing that I hear mentioned by US students is that there is a higher expectation of independent study, with almost no pop quizzes, multichoices, etc. My son, for example, has one essay and one exam per module, with no extra points for class participation, etc.

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

I work for a British university, if that helps. The thing that I hear mentioned by US students is that there is a higher expectation of independent study, with almost no pop quizzes, multichoices, etc. My son, for example, has one essay and one exam per module, with no extra points for class participation, etc.

I’ve heard about this and will admit it makes me nervous. 
The small private schools in our area (New England) tend to offer a LOT of support, something DS still needs. The larger state universities don’t to the same degree, but even then I suspect there’s more than in the British system. 

[TCB]

I would say that your analysis of Brexit is one opinion of what's going to happen but there are certainly more. Also, I think the chances of Scotland becoming an independent country and being able to survive as such is not necessarily considered a sure thing by some.

ETA - Brexit may end up opening up more opportunities for American citizens than were available in Britain as part of the EU.

Edited February 10, 2020 by TCB

[TCB]

As far as universities go - I'm sure you are aware of them, but when we looked around there were some quite specific requirements of applicants from the USA

[wintermom]

I've met several Canadians who went to UK/Scotland/Sweden for graduate degrees (e.g., Physiotherapy, Exercise Physiology, Biomechanics). Sometimes the European degrees/qualifications are recognized in Canada and the US, but sometimes they aren't. It's worth confirming this before choosing this option if you ds would want to return to the US after graduating.

The graduate students I'm met who have done this really enjoyed their experience. It was comparable cost-wise and in some cases easier to get into a uni abroad than in Canada.

Another option I have seen at some universities/colleges in North America at the undergraduate and graduate levels is to complete a term or year studying abroad while still enrolled at one's home university. It seems like a really nice way to experience another culture/education system while obtaining a degree that is well recognized at home.

If your ds's main goal is to work in Europe after graduating from university, there could also be ways to do this after completing studies in North America. This is especially the case where there is a need for workers in specific fields. I was able to get a job in Norway after completing a degree in Canada because I was able to fill a positive with my education and work experience that could not be filled by a Norwegian. 

I would probably look into work visa options in Europe for US citizens (assuming your ds doesn't already hold a European passport). Usually you can get a work visa while you are an international student, but once you graduate there may be restrictions depending on the field. 

[MEmama]

13 minutes ago, TCB said:

As far as universities go - I'm sure you are aware of them, but when we looked around there were some quite specific requirements of applicants from the USA

Yes. Thankfully in our experience so far, the requirements are laid out much more clearly than in the US . 🙂

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I've met several Canadians who went to UK/Scotland/Sweden for graduate degrees (e.g., Physiotherapy, Exercise Physiology, Biomechanics). Sometimes the European degrees/qualifications are recognized in Canada and the US, but sometimes they aren't. It's worth confirming this before choosing this option if you ds would want to return to the US after graduating.

The graduate students I'm met who have done this really enjoyed their experience. It was comparable cost-wise and in some cases easier to get into a uni abroad than in Canada.

Another option I have seen at some universities/colleges in North America at the undergraduate and graduate levels is to complete a term or year studying abroad while still enrolled at one's home university. It seems like a really nice way to experience another culture/education system while obtaining a degree that is well recognized at home.

If your ds's main goal is to work in Europe after graduating from university, there could also be ways to do this after completing studies in North America. This is especially the case where there is a need for workers in specific fields. I was able to get a job in Norway after completing a degree in Canada because I was able to fill a positive with my education and work experience that could not be filled by a Norwegian. 

I would probably look into work visa options in Europe for US citizens (assuming your ds doesn't already hold a European passport). Usually you can get a work visa while you are an international student, but once you graduate there may be restrictions depending on the field. 

He’d like to study there; the rest of it is just wanting to keep potential doors open after he graduates. Of course there are so many unknowns, but I do think it’s good for him to think through the possibilities.

He is keeping his eye on whether potential degrees will be recognized in the US. It seems his areas of interest, CS and engineering, both are, but you’re right, it’s definitely a consideration and important to keep in mind.
 

When DS was younger we moved to Canada (permanent residency), so he does have experience living in another country, and we have been through the process. I think mostly he’s just thinking through options. 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by MEmama

[wintermom]

4 minutes ago, MEmama said:

He’d like to study there; the rest of it is just wanting to keep potential doors open after he graduates. Of course there are so many unknowns, but I do think it’s good for him to think through the possibilities.

He is keeping his eye on whether potential degrees will be recognized in the US. It seems his areas of interest, CS and engineering, both are, but you’re right, it’s definitely a consideration and important to keep in mind.
 

When DS was younger we moved to Canada (permanent residency), so he does have experience living in another country, and we have been through the process. I think mostly he’s just thinking through options. 

 

I think it's great that there are so many options available to study internationally. One thing I noticed about some European universities, was the fact that you could start studying the exact area you wanted to study at the undergraduate level without having to take as many required courses in other areas. I notice that this is one big difference between US colleges and many Canadian universities.

For example, my ds applied to a small Canadian university to the program Bachelor of Philosophy with a minor in ethics. All the courses were philosophy, ethics, and a few completely open electives. For my dd studying Honours Biology, the only required elective outside of sciences is one English course. There are also open electives, where she can take whatever she wants.

[Lawyer&Mom]

Most UK universities participate in the US federal student aid program.  I was able to take US federal loans to fund my UK graduate school.  Just FYI. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

I’ve heard about this and will admit it makes me nervous. 
The small private schools in our area (New England) tend to offer a LOT of support, something DS still needs. The larger state universities don’t to the same degree, but even then I suspect there’s more than in the British system. 

CS and engineering may be a bit different, but I would ask carefully.

Most British students will have been drinking socially with friends well before arriving at university. There are young people who don't drink, but he should have a good think about how he wants to approach the issue. 

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

I think it's great that there are so many options available to study internationally. One thing I noticed about some European universities, was the fact that you could start studying the exact area you wanted to study at the undergraduate level without having to take as many required courses in other areas. I notice that this is one big difference between US colleges and many Canadian universities.

For example, my ds applied to a small Canadian university to the program Bachelor of Philosophy with a minor in ethics. All the courses were philosophy, ethics, and a few completely open electives. For my dd studying Honours Biology, the only required elective outside of sciences is one English course. There are also open electives, where she can take whatever she wants.

Yes, and it seems it’s more common to graduate in 3 years instead of 4 in the US, or earn a masters in 4 or 5. 

I think he likes the idea of just getting on studying in his field. A couple of the schools he’s looking at in the US are more of that model, and he seems to prefer it. 

Another big thing he is focussing on in his US search is whether they offer coops. It looks like some of the overseas schools have lengthy internships but not all (I think UCD offers an 8 month internship, maybe it was Galway).  He’s very keen on getting real world experience and starting to build a portfolio/resume before graduation. 

[MEmama]

39 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

Most UK universities participate in the US federal student aid program.  I was able to take US federal loans to fund my UK graduate school.  Just FYI. 

I did not know this! Thanks!

[Farrar]

He's homeschooled? Or attends a b&m school? When homeschoolers apply to colleges in Europe and UK, they often need to have things like AP exams, SAT II subject tests, etc. that are often "nice" to have here but only required at a few schools. So I guess keep that in mind.

[MEmama]

23 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

CS and engineering may be a bit different, but I would ask carefully.

Most British students will have been drinking socially with friends well before arriving at university. There are young people who don't drink, but he should have a good think about how he wants to approach the issue. 

He is *definitely* not keen on that scene. Lol. 

He’s an athlete and will likely join a running club (or run competitively for a school if he stays in the US), so hopefully he will find a tribe of likeminded friends. 

I’m glad you brought it up. 

[MEmama]

Just now, Farrar said:

He's homeschooled? Or attends a b&m school? When homeschoolers apply to colleges in Europe and UK, they often need to have things like AP exams, SAT II subject tests, etc. that are often "nice" to have here but only required at a few schools. So I guess keep that in mind.

Public high school, so it’s pretty straightforward. 🙂

[Laura Corin]

21 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Yes, and it seems it’s more common to graduate in 3 years instead of 4 in the US, or earn a masters in 4 or 5. 

A Scottish undergraduate degree is usually four years ; most degrees in England are three years. I don't know about Ireland 

The Scottish degree is usually two general years (normally studying three subjects, with no other general modules) followed by two honours years, studying one or two of the original subjects.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Laura Corin

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

CS and engineering may be a bit different, but I would ask carefully.

Most British students will have been drinking socially with friends well before arriving at university. There are young people who don't drink, but he should have a good think about how he wants to approach the issue. 

I believe the British drinking culture leans more toward 'drink beer in a pub/bar with friends and gradually get a buzz' rather than the Norwegian method of 'binge drink vodka at home with friends where it's cheaper and then go out to a club completely plastered.'  That binge drinking mentality got annoying really fast. It's not fun being the designated driver, or non-drinker, in that situation. 

[Laura Corin]

Just now, wintermom said:

I believe the British drinking culture leans more toward 'drink beer in a pub/bar with friends and gradually get a buzz' rather than the Norwegian method of 'binge drink vodka at home with friends where it's cheaper and then go out to a club completely plastered.'  That binge drinking mentality got annoying really fast. It's not fun being the designated driver, or non-drinker, in that situation. 

That used to be the case, but pre-drinking then going to a club is very common now. Pubs are not doing well these days.

[MEmama]

53 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I believe the British drinking culture leans more toward 'drink beer in a pub/bar with friends and gradually get a buzz' rather than the Norwegian method of 'binge drink vodka at home with friends where it's cheaper and then go out to a club completely plastered.'  That binge drinking mentality got annoying really fast. It's not fun being the designated driver, or non-drinker, in that situation. 

Where we lived in the maritimes, binge drinking was very much the culture. Poor DH was FLOORED the first time he went to lunch with co workers and they ordered not just beer, but multiple beers! And then went back to the office. He said it felt like Mad Men. 😂
 

He stopped going out with friends after work when it was clear the only objective was to get plastered. I mean, we drink, but we found that culture to be surprising and unsettling.

So DS has seen the culture. I’m hoping to take him out for his first legal Guinness on this trip, but so far he’s not interested. Lol

Edited February 10, 2020 by MEmama

[catz]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

He's homeschooled? Or attends a b&m school? When homeschoolers apply to colleges in Europe and UK, they often need to have things like AP exams, SAT II subject tests, etc. that are often "nice" to have here but only required at a few schools. So I guess keep that in mind.

This is what I was going to ask.  Even Canadian schools weren't super straight forward for a homeschooling student for admissions.

The drinking thing is a good point.  My brother I'm pretty sure just drank beer and smoked pot the year he studied in England.  US "party schools" had nothing on the college culture he experienced there. I think there was a bar in his dorm?  Or right next door.   Constant raves going on. Anyway, it was very prevalent.  I was actually on that campus with him for a week and I was pretty shocked.  And I came from a big 10 school.

[Frances]

21 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I work for a British university, if that helps. The thing that I hear mentioned by US students is that there is a higher expectation of independent study, with almost no pop quizzes, multichoices, etc. My son, for example, has one essay and one exam per module, with no extra points for class participation, etc.

This was the biggest difference for my son. While I don’t think he had much in the way of pop quizzes or multiple choice tests at his US undergrad and certainly no class participation points, he did have extensive weekly problem sets, regular exams, and numerous lengthy, in-depth lab reports plus research presentations and professional posters in his STEM classes and usually four essays per quarter for his honors college humanities courses. In the UK, problem sets were either nonexistent or very sparse and for most of his classes he had only one exam per year. For him, it wasn’t so much that he minded not getting points or credit for problem sets, but that he previously found them to be extremely useful learning tools; ditto for regular exams. And often helping others with problem sets, lab reports, and exam prep was also helpful for his own leaning and enjoyable. So he missed that aspect in the UK. But I’m guessing there is quite a bit of variance among different schools and majors.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Frances

[Laura Corin]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

This was the biggest difference for my son. While I don’t think he had much in the way of pop quizzes or multiple choice tests at his US undergrad and certainly no class participation points, he did have extensive weekly problem sets, regular exams, and numerous lengthy, in-depth lab reports plus research presentations and posters in his STEM classes and usually four essays per quarter for his honors college humanities courses. In the UK, problem sets were either nonexistent or very sparse and for most of his classes he had only one exam per year. For him, it wasn’t so much that he minded not getting points or credit for problem sets, but that he previously found them to be extremely useful learning tools; ditto for regular exams. And often helping others with problem sets, lab reports, and exam prep was also helpful for his own leaning and enjoyable. So he missed that aspect in the UK. But I’m guessing there is quite a bit of variance among different schools and majors.

It can be a difficult thing to balance, especially when you have students coming from different backgrounds.  In one case that I know of, at one and the same time the department had requests for more assessed problem sets and complaints at the stress caused by the existing assessed problem sets.  In the end, they decided on one assessed problem set per module per semester, with extra problem sets for those who wanted (which would be marked but the marks would not figure on transcripts).  This led to the complaint that this was not motivating to the students because, as the grade for the extra problem sets 'didn't matter', the students had a hard time persuading themselves to complete them...

[MEmama]

9 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

This is what I was going to ask.  Even Canadian schools weren't super straight forward for a homeschooling student for admissions.

The drinking thing is a good point.  My brother I'm pretty sure just drank beer and smoked pot the year he studied in England.  US "party schools" had nothing on the college culture he experienced there. I think there was a bar in his dorm?  Or right next door.   Constant raves going on. Anyway, it was very prevalent.  I was actually on that campus with him for a week and I was pretty shocked.  And I came from a big 10 school.

Wow. We knew excessive drinking (to us) would figure into the overall social scene, but I’ll admit I’m surprised to hear how prevalent it is. We’ll definitely try to look into the various cultures of the schools he is interested in. I know he would be less than impressed by what you describe. 

[Laura Corin]

18 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Wow. We knew excessive drinking (to us) would figure into the overall social scene, but I’ll admit I’m surprised to hear how prevalent it is. We’ll definitely try to look into the various cultures of the schools he is interested in. I know he would be less than impressed by what you describe. 

The tide is turning though - I think your son would find his tribe: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/10/young-people-drinking-alcohol-study-england

For when you are communicating with universities, the word 'school' is not usually used as a synonym for 'university'.  It sometimes means 'department', sometimes 'lecture hall'.

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

The tide is turning though - I think your son would find his tribe: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/10/young-people-drinking-alcohol-study-england

For when you are communicating with universities, the word 'school' is not usually used as a synonym for 'university'.  It sometimes means 'department', sometimes 'lecture hall'.

Thanks for the reminder!

[catz]

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

Wow. We knew excessive drinking (to us) would figure into the overall social scene, but I’ll admit I’m surprised to hear how prevalent it is. We’ll definitely try to look into the various cultures of the schools he is interested in. I know he would be less than impressed by what you describe. 

I think it's just something to ask about and be aware of depending on your student's personality.  My kind of nerdy straight laced high stat college student is at a top 10 "party school" in the US and is having no issues finding things to do and connecting with people. Good luck!  🙂   

[wintermom]

16 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

That used to be the case, but pre-drinking then going to a club is very common now. Pubs are not doing well these days.

That's sad to hear about the decline of the iconic British pubs. 

 

15 hours ago, MEmama said:

Where we lived in the maritimes, binge drinking was very much the culture. Poor DH was FLOORED the first time he went to lunch with co workers and they ordered not just beer, but multiple beers! And then went back to the office. He said it felt like Mad Men. 😂
 

He stopped going out with friends after work when it was clear the only objective was to get plastered. I mean, we drink, but we found that culture to be surprising and unsettling.

So DS has seen the culture. I’m hoping to take him out for his first legal Guinness on this trip, but so far he’s not interested. Lol

I guess there can be pockets of mis-use of alcohol, but I wouldn't paint an entire nation with the same brush. My dh, and many, many friends work for the federal government in Canada, and there is no drinking among colleagues at all. And for myself, working at a hospital, a music school, and a national NGO, there was certainly no drinking at lunchtime, if people even left their desks to eat. 

[Frances]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

It can be a difficult thing to balance, especially when you have students coming from different backgrounds.  In one case that I know of, at one and the same time the department had requests for more assessed problem sets and complaints at the stress caused by the existing assessed problem sets.  In the end, they decided on one assessed problem set per module per semester, with extra problem sets for those who wanted (which would be marked but the marks would not figure on transcripts).  This led to the complaint that this was not motivating to the students because, as the grade for the extra problem sets 'didn't matter', the students had a hard time persuading themselves to complete them...

Even in the US there can be quite a bit of variation. I never had graded problem sets in math in either high school or college. It wasn’t until I was in grad school at an Ivy League U that I was handing in three problem sets per week and grading another set as a TA (with check marks and plus and minus signs - it felt more like something from grade school!). My high school and college math teachers assigned problem sets every day class met, but they were our responsibility to do as we chose or not for our own learning. Our entire grade was based only on regular exams. My son would have been fine with such an approach in either the US or the UK.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Frances

[mumto2]

Fwiw,  Part of my dc’s decision making process regarding which country to go to grad school in came down to anticipated salary post graduation.  They are both studying in the CS field and salary in the U.K. at this time is so much lower.  Their Post Brexit dreams are for higher salaries for recent U.K. graduates. Btw, they are studying in the US and are very happy.

The U.K. publishes lots of tables on all sorts of things relating to University.....good ones regarding salary can be found in the Daily Telegraph but behind a pay wall.  I think you can get 1 free read per week.  The only example I can think of is one of DS’s friends who is getting an MS in Mechanical (pretty sure mechanical) Engineering......after 5 years on the job he will on average make £24,000 per year according to tables and his research from his pretty decent program.  I just found some rather old data that shows a range of $53,000 to $100,000 for US graduates upon graduation with an MS in ME not 5 years out.  At current conversion rates no comparison........friend’s math/physics BS was £19,000 after 5 years.
 

Many U.K. schools have scholarships specifically for American students.  Essentially the scholarships make it so the US student pays what a U.K. student would pay...... So ask about those.   

 

 

[MEmama]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

Even in the US there can be quite a bit of variation. I never had graded problem sets in math in either high school or college. It wasn’t until I was in grad school at an Ivy League U that I was handing in three problem sets per week and grading another set as a TA (with check marks and plus and minus signs - it felt more like something from grade school!). My high school and college math teachers assigned problem sets every day class met, but they were our responsibility to do as we chose or not for our own learning. Our entire grade was based only on regular exams. My son would have been fine with such an approach in either the US or the UK.

Yeah, DS has a couple classes now that are primarily only graded on a handful of tests. He’s not a good test taker by nature, regardless of how well he understands the material. 🤷‍♀️

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, mumto2 said:

Fwiw,  Part of my dc’s decision making process regarding which country to go to grad school in came down to anticipated salary post graduation.  They are both studying in the CS field and salary in the U.K. at this time is so much lower.  Their Post Brexit dreams are for higher salaries for recent U.K. graduates. Btw, they are studying in the US and are very happy.

The U.K. publishes lots of tables on all sorts of things relating to University.....good ones regarding salary can be found in the Daily Telegraph but behind a pay wall.  I think you can get 1 free read per week.  The only example I can think of is one of DS’s friends who is getting an MS in Mechanical (pretty sure mechanical) Engineering......after 5 years on the job he will on average make £24,000 per year according to tables and his research from his pretty decent program.  I just found some rather old data that shows a range of $53,000 to $100,000 for US graduates upon graduation with an MS in ME not 5 years out.  At current conversion rates no comparison........friend’s math/physics BS was £19,000 after 5 years.
 

Many U.K. schools have scholarships specifically for American students.  Essentially the scholarships make it so the US student pays what a U.K. student would pay...... So ask about those.   

 

 

Thanks for this. According to the stats from several schools he is looking at in the US, average post graduation starting salaries in CS start in the mid $70,000s and up, with job rates in their field nearly 100%. Which even if isn’t true across the board, that kind of salary for a recent undergrad is pretty mind boggling to me. I wouldn’t have thought that the discrepancy would be so huge between the US and UK, though. I know he will want to research that further.

Thanks for the scholarship info. Considering the astronomical cost of the schools he’s looking at here, UK schools already look like a bargain to us even paying full international fees. I assumed there wouldn’t be much if any international aid available.

[MEmama]

He’s very interested in coops, which are essentially longer term paid internships while enrolled in university. They are typically full time jobs, so the student is neither taking courses or paying for them during this time, though they are still enrolled. The benefit is that the student (usually year 2 or 3) gets real life job experience in their field before committing totally (there’s time to change their mind if it turns out that field might not be for them). Bringing that experience back with them to their continuing studies adds another layer of understanding, and they graduate with not only a start to a resume, but also proven projects they have worked on during their coop.

Do UK or Irish unis have such a thing? I feel like I’ve seen internships mentioned but not at all the universities. 
 

[Laura Corin]

16 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Thanks for this. According to the stats from several schools he is looking at in the US, average post graduation starting salaries in CS start in the mid $70,000s and up, with job rates in their field nearly 100%. Which even if isn’t true across the board, that kind of salary for a recent undergrad is pretty mind boggling to me. I wouldn’t have thought that the discrepancy would be so huge between the US and UK, though. I know he will want to research that further.

Thanks for the scholarship info. Considering the astronomical cost of the schools he’s looking at here, UK schools already look like a bargain to us even paying full international fees. I assumed there wouldn’t be much if any international aid available.

It's hard to compare salaries between the two countries. Taxes are a bit higher in the UK, for example, but there are very few medical bills. And university loans are much lower for Brits.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Laura Corin

[mumto2]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

He’s very interested in coops, which are essentially longer term paid internships while enrolled in university. They are typically full time jobs, so the student is neither taking courses or paying for them during this time, though they are still enrolled. The benefit is that the student (usually year 2 or 3) gets real life job experience in their field before committing totally (there’s time to change their mind if it turns out that field might not be for them). Bringing that experience back with them to their continuing studies adds another layer of understanding, and they graduate with not only a start to a resume, but also proven projects they have worked on during their coop.

Do UK or Irish unis have such a thing? I feel like I’ve seen internships mentioned but not at all the universities. 
 

We weren’t looking for internship opportunities for U.K. undergrad but no one remembers any in the traditional American sense being offered....some friends have worked while in Uni but most just borrow.   Foreign language students are required to work while living in their language’s country but have to find their own jobs.....I believe the literature calls those experiences internships.  One friend taught English at a school.....another worked in a bank.......

I occasionally have heard a U.K. student say they are having work experience......believe it was more  a shadowing experience but can’t remember.  When I question a bit that experience never equals how my internships worked while I was in US University and I halt the conversation.  Can’t remember the details but you need to ask and really explore the subject if it’s something your son really wants.  I think this might be a cultural term difference.

Btw, I am not saying don’t do Uni in the U.K.  I am saying know what you are buying and how it affects life in the US if your child does not find a way to settle there.  Unless your son is already a U.K. citizen being able to immigrate is never certain.  For my kids a school with a CAE designation seemed like a smart move for Cybersecurity.

 

[Laura Corin]

Here is the internship page for Edinburgh

https://www.ed.ac.uk/careers/looking-for-work/internships

Here's their Go Abroad page, which includes overseas work

https://www.ed.ac.uk/global/go-abroad