Talk to me about The Good and the Beautiful History

[Elizabeth86]

My oldest (3rd grader) is currently using vp self paced history and that is working well for us, but I have been thinking I'd prefer to be a bit more hands on with the fun subjects like science and history.  I'm not 100% sure I would switch what is working for him, but I am considering a different path for the rest of my kids as they get older.  I LOVE the idea of doing history chronologically, but I was never quite sure how that worked when the family did history all together.   I have never looked at the The Good and the Beautiful at all, but I saw a youtube video today describing their history course and I thought the approach was genius.  I then learned that some Christians are apposed to using it?  I honestly know nothing about what Mormons believe.  So, if you are Christian, if you have used The Good and the Beautiful, what are you thoughts on this?  Any other pros and cons with The Good and the Beautiful history curriculum.  

Thanks

[Lori D.]

No experience with tGatB, but here's the Cathy Duffy review. Based on her review, it seems to me that tGatB would be age-appropriate for up through about 6th grade, but for late middle school, and certainly for high school, this sounds way too "lite". (JMO, and totally based on the program description in the CD review.)

Since you're researching other History programs, I'll just toss in a few more ideas you might want to look at:
Tapestry of Grace
Wayfarers
Biblioplan
All 3 are history programs that are Christian, 4-year chronological, with built in levels to simultaneous teach children at different ages/grades (K-12).

Tapestry of Grace has 4 "learning levels" (k-2nd; gr. 3-6; gr. 6-9; gr. 9-12) and all are built in to a single guide.
Wayfarers has 3 "learning levels" (gr. 1-4; gr. 5-8; gr. 9-12) built into a single guide. Wayfarers has hands-on options scheduled as "bonus" activities, to do or not as fits for you. 
Biblioplan has booklists geared for K-2nd; gr. 2-5; gr. 5-8; gr. 8-12 and has separate guides k-2nd; gr. 2-6; gr. 6-8; and gr. 8-12. I believe Biblioplan esp. has hands-on activities as part of the program.

There is also the secular Pandia Press with History Odyssey, another 4-year chronological History cycle program. I believe they also include a lot of hands-on activities. Each guide covers 4 grade/ages -- so the 4 history time periods (Ancient/Medieval/Early Modern/Modern -- are covered 3 times, at 3 levels -- level 1= gr. 1-4; level 2 = gr. 5-8; level 3 = gr. 9-12. So you would have to use 2 guides if you had some children at a young age and some at an older age, but you could keep them all together on the same History time period.

Perhaps to help make things more interesting right now for your 3rd grader, do some quick online searches for activities to go with your History studies. Or, perhaps purchase a few fun extras to liven up your history -- Rainbow Resource Catalog has loads of great supplements, like sticker books, models to build, activity books with ideas, etc.

And, as far as making science more hands-on -- we did not use a formal program until 9th grade. Every summer, I spent about a week pulling together a list of possible topics to cover under the umbrella of Life Science, or Earth Science, etc., and made a big list of resources available to us for each topic, and then we had a blast exploring with:
- library books
- documentaries/educational videos
-  websites
- hands-on kits / activities
- field trips
Very engaging, we all learned a ton, and science was a favorite subject here. 

Hopefully others will pop in and give their thoughts about tGatB. And BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family, both now and in the future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Lori D.

[cbollin]

I can add a little to the discussion.

 

When TGTB history was new, I bought it to check it out and see how it would go. I was not doing history-centric schooling with youngest so if it was regular middle to high school subject level, that was ok with me.Although my child wasn't using the older student pages, I glanced at the student pages in older years.  I don’t remember it being too lite for high school if one was doing the research pages (student explorer pack) and want a regular level of work. If you want AP or honors, then that’s a different story.  Oh, my youngest was in middle school age group, but working below that level due to learning and developmental delays.  I can remember at the time thinking I wouldn't be bothered with the non traditional approach of each year being world history overview and by end of year 4 enough to put on high school transcript that a US history course had been completed.  But deep down, I'm not one of those. That could have contributed to me stopping using it.

 

I can’t seem to find my previous reviews and ramblings about the program when my thoughts were new. So this is from memory with hopes someone can chime in with current info. I do remember that we didn’t like it enough to stick with it for the whole year and I sold it to someone. My youngest just needs textbook style and as much as I wanted to use the approach in tgtb with me, it wasn’t her best fit.

 

On the LDS thing, in year 1, I remember some of the early lessons had some things worded in the teacher section that was not in my Protestant Bible. I simply omitted those two sentences because they stuck out like a sore thumb. one of them was about Cain and Abel.  (edit to add: I found an older post of mine. apparently the sentence was "God asked Cain and Abel to bring a lamb."   I don't find that in my Bible, so I left that out.  another sentence was an interpretation of a verse of Genesis and I did not repeat that opinion and left it out. really not a big portion of the lesson)

Around lesson 17 (of year 1) it was a vague lesson: if you are LDS use the supplement, if you’re not LDS teach some of your church’s history. Maybe in other years there’s more of an issue. I know for some people even that much is more than they want. To each her own decision.

 

Year 1 the history game. I really wanted to like that part of the program. But didn’t. I remember it was too hard to play when it was first introduced. You had not taught or been exposed to enough of the information to try to play. So we modified that and just read the cards and moved our pieces. that was kinda lame to be honest.   For that we could get flash cards from any source and read them.

 

The style of the dramatized audio stories was not a hit with my youngest. She struggles with language with her autism, and I had hopes that having short drama piece and short story text in front of her with the audio playing would work. It does with other stories. But we just couldn’t get into it. The whole go to uncle’s place in summer to hear him tell stories just wasn’t our thang. I thought the quality on the audio was well performed. And others might like it and click with it. If my kid had like it, ok. But she didn't.  And I didn't like the feel of how syrupy sweet everything was. personal reaction.  others may love it.

 

The amount to get done each day was not overwhelming especially since you have to do other subjects. that was a big bonus to me.

 

Lori mentioned similar product lines. Another product line out there with history cycles and family in mind is MFW. With my oldest and middle, I used that all the way through. It starts with a geography focus year before following more of a year 4 approach. Their approach differs from tgtb in that tgtb year 1 goes from origins to modern in highlight form and then year 2, 3,4 go back and do same time frame with different topics. But mfw (and the others that lori listed and that you are doing already) do ancients in year 1 and cover more depth in that area, then year 2 is different time frame, etc..  That sounds like what is already working for you. But they (mfw)  also like to try to make it work for blending the needs of family members in grades 2-8.  high schoolers are working in their own level and year to stay on track for graduation or something like that even if the younger crowd is in a different year in history.  It all fit fine with my oldest and middle and we were still a family even when history didn't line up.  Maybe that's my whole point.  You might be able to find ways to include younger students with the product you like and fill in a few gaps here and there knowing that in a few years they'll get the whole thing start to finish with you.

 

hope you find something that works and fits.

Edited September 9, 2019 by cbollin

[Janeway]

I am Lutheran. We almost never use anything Catholic because it opposes how we are raising our children and our beliefs. But, as far as The Good and The Beautiful goes...just wow! We love it! My son looks forward to school now. We are only using the language arts right now but it is going so well that I want to order more. But we have been happily using Story of the World so there is sort of a "it is not broken, don't fix it" feeling to this. We like Story of the World. IF we did not already have everything for Story of the World, I would be on it with The Good and the Beautiful History. I am already considering trying to figure out how to do both together.

 

Have you considered Story of the World?  

 

Oh, and I also have one level of Mystery of History and have enjoyed it but never used it for all the years. I might just enjoy history a lot.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Janeway

[Soror]

2 hours ago, Janeway said:

I am Lutheran. We almost never use anything Catholic because it opposes how we are raising our children and our beliefs. But, as far as The Good and The Beautiful goes...just wow! We love it! My son looks forward to school now. We are only using the language arts right now but it is going so well that I want to order more. But we have been happily using Story of the World so there is sort of a "it is not broken, don't fix it" feeling to this. We like Story of the World. IF we did not already have everything for Story of the World, I would be on it with The Good and the Beautiful History. I am already considering trying to figure out how to do both together.

 

Have you considered Story of the World?  

 

Oh, and I also have one level of Mystery of History and have enjoyed it but never used it for all the years. I might just enjoy history a lot.

The author of the Good and Beautiful is LDS.

[Janeway]

4 hours ago, soror said:

The author of the Good and Beautiful is LDS.

Mormons are Christians. I already knew the author is Mormon and this would not make me suddenly throw away the program even if I did not. Even if a program claimed to be secular, it would still have a religious leaning and should be evaluated when using.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Janeway

[Soror]

1 minute ago, Janeway said:

Mormons are Christians. I already knew the author is Mormon and this would not make me suddenly throw away the program even if I did not.

You said you almost never use anything Catholic because it is against your beliefs, implying that G&B is by a Catholic author, I said nothing about the Christianity of LDS.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, soror said:

You said you almost never use anything Catholic because it is against your beliefs, implying that G&B is by a Catholic author, I said nothing about the Christianity of LDS.

i also thought she meant G&B was Catholic and was going to correct her. 

i realize now she was saying two separate things. 

[ktgrok]

Ladies, I am having SERIOUS buyer's remorse for not getting this. Or is it FOMO? Whatever. Either way, I'm REALLY rethinking my decision to do Biblioplan. I think I made a mistake. ugh. 

Anyone want to buy Bibliplan Year 2, lol?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Nam2001]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Ladies, I am having SERIOUS buyer's remorse for not getting this. Or is it FOMO? Whatever. Either way, I'm REALLY rethinking my decision to do Biblioplan. I think I made a mistake. ugh. 

Anyone want to buy Bibliplan Year 2, lol?

I did that this year also! I bought Biblioplan year one, but after about a week of it, I realized I didn’t like it. I sold it very easily on a literature based curriculum buy/sell group on FB. But that was August......

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Nam2001 said:

I did that this year also! I bought Biblioplan year one, but after about a week of it, I realized I didn’t like it. I sold it very easily on a literature based curriculum buy/sell group on FB. But that was August......

The Remember the Days book is over their head, and too much reading. The more overview version of history works better for us. I may just do it. I also may try the language arts, which I can download for free, and the free marine science unit. We also have mystery science this year, which we like, so would just kind of do whatever we felt like, lol. 

[Janeway]

5 hours ago, soror said:

You said you almost never use anything Catholic because it is against your beliefs, implying that G&B is by a Catholic author, I said nothing about the Christianity of LDS.

No, I meant that I generally won't use something of even a Catholic religion, even though I am Lutheran and many consider the two close together, because the Catholic programs are generally too open with their opposing beliefs, BUT, that with the G&B, I did not see that, (not that it is Catholic, but rather that it has not had anything opposing so far). If one is LDS, there are LDS supplements to add to TGTB to make it more of a Mormon specific program. But those are things you have to go to the website to access and download. They are not things you will simply come across in the middle of the book and have to be careful to skip. 

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

I have not used this curriculum but have read great reviews about it. Some Christians will not use it though because they do not consider Mormons to be Christian based on Deut 4:2 and Rev 22:18-19 (which both state that the Bible is not to be added to or subtracted from) and of course the Mormons adhere to The Book of Mormon.

But of course, we all know the bible has been altered many times since it was originally written, including by King James And Augustine. Also, they have their Book of Mormon and we have the Catechism.  Even the Catholic bible has different books in it than the Protestant bible. And the bible from 1000 years ago is quite different from the one today. There are many books that have been removed through the years.

[ktgrok]

well..I did it. 

Just ordered year 1 - physical copies because at the last minute I remembered the most important homeschool commandment - thou shalt not buy PDF curricula! I'll use the language arts PDF for now since it is free, and the marine bio one, to see if we like them. If we do, I'll order the language arts physical copies. 

[ktgrok]

Really like the look of the 1st grade math as well, and had actually considered doing it even before I looked at the rest of the program, but the 1st grade activity box is sold out and that is NOT something I want to try to print/create. So sticking with CTC math for that kid and TT for DD. 

Never mind, ordered the math stuff other than the activity box. I need help, lol. 

Good thing they don' have math for DD's level or I might have gotten that too. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

I actually was watching some videos of people who stopped using it for religious reasons and my husband walks in and says, "So, is that what homeschool mama drama looks like?"

NOTHING I've ever found fully aligns with my religious beliefs, so editing on the fly where needed is okay for me. 

[Elizabeth86]

I haven't had the time to read and reply.  I look forward to it, thanks for all the replies ladies!

[ktgrok]

Only our second day, and only using the language arts and science, but so far I am loving it! We did a lesson Marine Biology yesterday, and the kids learned a lot and enjoyed it. And the language arts is going over much better than the stuff we've tried before. I'm using it a grade lower (so level 3) and not doing the spelling part with my DD - we are sticking with AAS for her due to her dyslexia, but I'm using it as written for my DS. I like how easy it is to adapt the writing part of the LA  for her as well, at least so far. So I could tell she was having a hard day and it was easy to assign her to write one sentence rather than the 2-3 suggested, etc. And where it says "practice spelling " we just use our own thing. 

Oh, we we are using different handwriting as I had already purchased that and see no reason to change. DS is using something from Teachers Pay Teachers that is similar to handwriting without tears called Print Pathways I think? And DD is using handwriting without tears Cursive Success. 

Can't wait until the history gets here!

[ktgrok]

 There are a ton of the kids biographies about Washington that actually are not historically accurate so I agree with that. The good list does include a ton of other biographies of historical figures. Not LDS ones, just regular historical figures. As far as the artwork I admit I haven’t looked through the whole thing but scanning through my download so far I have seen paintings of the ocean, cliffs near the ocean, a path near a stream, light houses, woods, etc. Not sure how any of that is religious in any particular way let alone a specific denomination.

Not wanting to support or use materials put out by someone of a particular faith group is fine, but I think it is a stretch to say that the paintings of seashores are somehow Sectarian 

[ktgrok]

What flood of reviews by Mormons have you seen? I haven’t seen any. Probably because there aren’t that many LDS people who I coming to contact with? 

For the record any review I give is as a non-LDS person. And again, so far looking through three different levels of language arts, samples of the first year of history, and the marine biology unit I haven’t seen any pictures that look like Utah. All the painting so far have been by European artists actually

Edited September 12, 2019 by Ktgrok

[moonflower]

lol this thread

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

As a Christian, something I've learned is that unless you know you're own church's doctrine well and that of the curriculum you're considering, don't go there. Whether intentional or not, things that may appear harmless but are a part of their beliefs and not yours may slip in unnoticed. I encountered this in my own church when I put DS in their preschool program run by volunteers, most of whom were new or young in their Christian walk. Because the term "evolution" or "big bang" wasn't specifically stated (our church is young earth), they didn't notice its ideas in their dinosaur unit and they taught the children that "all the dinosaurs died when the volcanoes went boom!" When I asked about this, the teacher responded, "I had no idea that was an evolutionary concept! How DID the dinosaurs die, then?" After getting past my shock (and anger, if I'm being completely honest), we discussed the beliefs of our church and they have since looked more closely at the content of their curriculum choices which I pray will better serve the preschool and it's mission within our community in future years.

I do use curriculum from other doctrines, as you can tell from my posts. But I do so only because I am well aware of where we agree/disagree and can point out and discuss these ideas as they come up.

Yeah, well...there are not a whole lot of curricula put out by the Episcopal church. As in, none. Zero. So choosing only curricula put out by them isn't exactly an option, lol. 

And I'm well versed in my theology and many others. I majored in religion for years at FSU, including graduate level classes, and continue to study the subject to this day. I read ahead, and am comfortable editing on the fly as well. But so far, other than changing the emphasis a bit to focus on less scary bits in the bible, I'm happy enough. (if anyone has a sensitive kid I HIGHLY reccomend the Children of God Storybook Bible by Bishop Desmond TuTu)

 

[ktgrok]

So, I'm backing down to the K level language arts for my 1st grader. Reading wise he's probably beyond level 1 even, but they include grammar, spelling, and other concepts that he doesn't know and advise K for first graders. I'm just doing it at a rapid pace, so far 4 lessons a day the last two days, and then stopping to more thoroughly cover the stuff he doesn't know. 

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

My gentle words of caution to know your church's doctrine and that of the curriculum you choose were for the OP who was questioning. It's wonderful that you know your church's doctrine and many others so well! I honestly was looking for how to send a private message originally to the OP rather than on this thread but am newer on this forum and couldn't figure out how. I certainly didn't mean to open up THIS can of worms! Lol 

Gotcha. No harm 🙂

Just a reminder that most denominations do not have curriculum options specific to them. And many are non denominational anyway. 

[scoutingmom]

 

On 9/9/2019 at 9:47 AM, Servant4Christ said:

Though I do know some Mormons, I do not know the ins and outs of their beliefs. But I do tend to research to the point of exhaustion when considering a curriculum choice. I want to know the good, bad, and everything in between before fully investing in a years worth of education for my children because it's a year I cannot get back. In researching, I ran across this woman's reviews. She loved the curriculum for it's ease of use (and her children loved it too) but stopped using it for her family when she realized the differences in her beliefs vs LDS beliefs. Some agree, some disagree. Not everyone's convictions are the same but I'll put the link here in case you want to read it.

https://homeschoolon.com/the-good-and-the-beautiful/

https://homeschoolon.com/the-good-and-the-beautiful-controversy/

If this is the person and videos I think it is,  this person announced some sort of arrangement with Masterbooks a couple of days after the negative review of The Good and the Beautiful.   Masterbooks is a company with anti-LDS products.  I question her motives in the video.

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, scoutingmom said:

 

If this is the person and videos I think it is,  this person announced some sort of arrangement with Masterbooks a couple of days after the negative review of The Good and the Beautiful.   Masterbooks is a company with anti-LDS products.  I question her motives in the video.

And evne in her review she admits there was no LDS teaching in the curriculum. Given that she announced her collaboration with Masterbooks at the same time, I think the decision was much more motivated by that than any issues in the curriculum. She was steering people to a competing company, that was the issue. 

And although it's not the point, I couldn't stand listening to her keep talking about how she speaks as a voice of authority over and over again. She seemed to think she's more important than she is, and be on a power trip. 

[ktgrok]

An example of me editing on the fly is that I saw the first few lessons were on Genesis, and treated them as literal history. I believe Genesis to be more allegory, and so I mentioned to my kids afterwards, "now - is that exactly how it happened? Some people say yes. Others, like mommy, think that this is in the bible not to teach us what actually happened but to teach us important lessons " and then we discussed what those lessons might be. 

Also, I read the getting kicked out of the garden story from my Children of God story bible to them first, to put the emphasis on the idea that even though they messed up and had to leave the Garden, God still loved and cared for them. 

So taking the framework, and adding in and discussing our family's beliefs. 

[ktgrok]

A little update after using it for a few weeks - still loving it! Some lessons are longer than others, but it is only scheduled for 3 days a week so you could break a longer one into two if kids are getting antsy. It focuses on things my kids find interesting. My complaint might be that there was a little bit on the audio that talked about how secular people are going back and tearing apart (not their wording) historical figures for being flawed, and that although no human is perfect we should look for the good in historical figures. 

I was like..um... Secular people for the most part are not just looking to take down say, Columbus, just for grins. There are actual bad things that need to be addressed, etc.

So I rolled my eyes, and then clarified things with the kids a bit. I'll be on the lookout for future things, I know this curriculum is going to be more pro-Columbus than me, for instance, but I'll add in my own take on that, provide outside references, etc. Again, because it isn't too heavy there is room to add things in. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and we are totally digging the Marine Science unit study. It's a free download, as an intro to their science. My kids are learning a TON. 

[Teryn]

We are using TGATB language arts. The biggest thing I have noticed is a lot of the authors and artists they use and talk about were Mormon. Personally, if I see something I’m unsure of or feel uncomfortable with how they talk about someone from history I skip it and supplement it with different art, poetry, writing. Any Bible stories mentioned we read straight from the Bible. There’s a lot I do like about the curriculum but I am cautious about it. Would I use curriculum from a scientologist? Perhaps if it came well recommended as this did? I see it as the same thing. I’m not naive to think that the creators worldview and beliefs are not woven into her work. But it is creative and engaging for my son. The program is parent intensive so as long as you know what you believe you should be able to navigate things that come up that are not in line with your families values.