X-post: Question about 5 yo boy's reading

[LMA]

My friend's sister homeschools and she sent me the following question describing her son's reading ability. I am not a reading expert, so I wanted to get your opinions since you are knee deep in schooling yourselves. What do you think she should do, if anything?

________________________________________________________

I'm running into some issues with my ds's reading. I know he's only 5, but they are consistent issues that have become terribly frustrating for both of us. I'm interested to see what you think. Over the last few weeks, I've made a list of the problems:

 

Difficulty remembering the names of letters

Difficulty sequencing the alphabet

Difficulty sounding words out

Substitutes phonetically similar words while reading aloud (e.g., "then" for "when", "chair" for "cheer", "bread" for "broad")

Substitutes words that begin with the same letter ("big" for bed, Bill, or bobsled)

Interchanges little words, especially articles ("a" for "the") when reading aloud

Confuses word order (e.g., reading "Is it hot" for "It is hot")

Omits endings of words when reading aloud (i.e., -s, -ed, -ing) when reading aloud

Slow rate of reading

Difficulty getting work started

Begins work before directions are fully understood

Frustrates easily

Difficulty finding the right word to use

Anxiety results in inappropriate behavior

Moves reading material often (wiggles until he's in the most bizarre positions)

Becomes fatigued while reading very quickly

Unable to keep the place

Distracted by text not being read

Letter reversals (b/d, p/q)

Word reversal (was/saw, nap/pan)

Cannot remember a word from one page to the next, or one line to the next

Sometimes refuses to sound out words ("I can't remember that one!" or "I forget that word!")

Inserts or leaves out letters

Substitutes a word that means the same but is vastly different phonetically

Directional confusion—push/pull, left/right, up/down

Cannot find objects in front of him

Tends to pile things instead of organizing

Does not move easily from one idea to another

Difficulty in distinguishing important from unimportant information

Poor visual and auditory memory

Difficulty staying on task

Difficulty organizing ideas and information

Jumps to premature conclusions

 

 

He's very creative, LOVES to tell stories, can comprehend my reading out loud to him above reading level (he likes the Little House books). Any ideas?

 

____________________________________________

 

Thanks for your help. You may also email me or pm me too with your opinions and I will forward them.

 

Louise

[Stacy in NJ]

My friend's sister homeschools and she sent me the following question describing her son's reading ability. I am not a reading expert, so I wanted to get your opinions since you are knee deep in schooling yourselves. What do you think she should do, if anything?

________________________________________________________

I'm running into some issues with my ds's reading. I know he's only 5, but they are consistent issues that have become terribly frustrating for both of us. I'm interested to see what you think. Over the last few weeks, I've made a list of the problems:

 

Difficulty remembering the names of letters

Difficulty sequencing the alphabet

Difficulty sounding words out

Substitutes phonetically similar words while reading aloud (e.g., "then" for "when", "chair" for "cheer", "bread" for "broad")

Substitutes words that begin with the same letter ("big" for bed, Bill, or bobsled)

Interchanges little words, especially articles ("a" for "the") when reading aloud

Confuses word order (e.g., reading "Is it hot" for "It is hot")

Omits endings of words when reading aloud (i.e., -s, -ed, -ing) when reading aloud

Slow rate of reading

Difficulty getting work started

Begins work before directions are fully understood

Frustrates easily

Difficulty finding the right word to use

Anxiety results in inappropriate behavior

Moves reading material often (wiggles until he's in the most bizarre positions)

Becomes fatigued while reading very quickly

Unable to keep the place

Distracted by text not being read

Letter reversals (b/d, p/q)

Word reversal (was/saw, nap/pan)

Cannot remember a word from one page to the next, or one line to the next

Sometimes refuses to sound out words ("I can't remember that one!" or "I forget that word!")

Inserts or leaves out letters

Substitutes a word that means the same but is vastly different phonetically

Directional confusion—push/pull, left/right, up/down

Cannot find objects in front of him

Tends to pile things instead of organizing

Does not move easily from one idea to another

Difficulty in distinguishing important from unimportant information

Poor visual and auditory memory

Difficulty staying on task

Difficulty organizing ideas and information

Jumps to premature conclusions

 

 

He's very creative, LOVES to tell stories, can comprehend my reading out loud to him above reading level (he likes the Little House books). Any ideas?

 

____________________________________________

 

Thanks for your help. You may also email me or pm me too with your opinions and I will forward them.

 

Louise

 

 

Well, it looks like a list of dyslexia warning signs. As a mom of an 11 yo dyslexic, I would say that 5 is way to young to diagnos dyselxia, though. In her shoes I would NOT seek a diagnosis or any special testing.

 

I would work consistently and gently with him on developing phonemic awareness skills and fluency in first letter naming speed, then letter sound speed, then in blending speed, then on to whole word reading fluency.

 

If she works with him consistently and gently for the next two years (until about the age of 7) and see little improvement, she'll need to seek out additional help from a professional.

 

HTH, Stacy

[A home for their hearts]

I'm using the I Am Sam books, (BRI) with my struggling 7 year old. He is doing great with them. I would tell her to use a knotched card, to cover the words with as he is reading she will uncover each letter so he is sounding out what is there and not getting confused and turning it into another world.

 

Here's a link for BRI

 

There is also a yahoo group for these books that have been a great help to me.

 

HTH!

[Titus.Two.Five]

I think this sounds quite normal for many young 5 yr olds. :001_smile:

 

I would just gently keep reviewing and working and give it time...if the issues are still prevalent with no improvement in a little over a year from now, then testing might be beneficial just to 'check'. KWIM?

 

My now 10 yr old dd, and 7 yr old ds both did just about every single one of those as young readers. ;)

[Laurel]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like normal 5 year old behavior. I'm not there, of course, so I don't see the extent of the issues, but we have almost all those same problems occasionally, and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

 

I think she would be better served if instead of making a list of all the "problems" he had, she made a list of all his accomplishments. (That sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be. It's just that I know if I sat down to write down all the problems I was having with the 5 yo I'm teaching to read, I could recreate almost that exact same list. But that would only frustrate both of us. Instead, I keep our focus on the progress she is making.)

[StephanieF]

I don't mean to be rude but is this her only child? My son (3rd child) does everything on her list and I mean everything and I think that is completely normal!

Perhaps her other children are girls?

Stephanie

[Ellie]

I think this sounds quite normal for many young 5 yr olds. :001_smile:

 

I would just gently keep reviewing and working and give it time...if the issues are still prevalent with no improvement in a little over a year from now, then testing might be beneficial just to 'check'. KWIM?

 

My now 10 yr old dd, and 7 yr old ds both did just about every single one of those as young readers. ;)

:iagree:And actually, if the mother has this detailed a list of things her dc seems to have problems with, I sort of wonder if she's just pushing too hard. He's just little.

[Titus.Two.Five]

I would also highly encourage you, to encourage her to stop being frustrated with this. It is perfectly normal development. :001_smile: I am afraid that her frustration will actually cause serious issues with the little guy. KWIM?

[jplain]

That's a pretty long list. I wonder if she's already found a diagnosis and wants to know if it fits. Have you asked her what she thinks is going on?

 

My short answer is that she should back off on reading, and work with the alphabet in a playful, low pressure way. She should take some time to breathe and reconsider her expectations. It really is okay if her 5 year old isn't reading. Ruth Beechick's reassuring little book (The Three R's) might be a good one to suggest, because she emphasizes that if the child isn't ready, the parent needs to be patient.

 

Long answer:

 

That list sounds very normal for a 5 year old. Letter reversals are normal at first. Alphabetizing is not something a pre-reader is supposed to have mastered. Left-to-right sequencing isn't inborn. It has to be learned, and maybe it hasn't sunk in yet. It is totally normal (yet totally frustrating for the parent) for a child to sound out a word at the beginning of a sentence, and then have to re-sound it out later on the same page, or even in the same sentence. Most of the behavior mentioned on that list sounds completely normal for a 5 year old as well.

 

Is she trying to compare her son to her older children, or to someone else's children, or is she trying to keep up with a school curriculum? Maybe she just needs some reassurance that it is okay to tailor her child's education, especially when things are going too fast.

 

The first thing that stands out to me is his inability to remember letter names. I don't think that means there's anything wrong, but I do think it is a big red flag frantically waving the message that he's just not ready yet! Has she considered that possibility? Is she trying to rush him through? I can't imagine trying to push forward with reading when a child doesn't yet know the names and sounds of the letters of the alphabet.

 

It sounds like he's struggling to perform for her, and is relying on guesses when he reads, which results in various types of word substitutions. Some of them (bread-broad, chair-cheer) point to a phonics instruction issue. He's recognizing beginning and ending sounds, but isn't sure what to do with the middles. What kind of phonics instruction has she been using? (But the issue of phonics is somewhat moot, because I still think they need to back up and work on the alphabet first!) Again, some 5 year olds aren't ready for phonics, and that's okay.

 

In that situation I'd drop reading completely. If she waits a few months or longer, things might be very different. I'd probably encourage some independent work, like Starfall for the alphabet activities, but I wouldn't encourage going forward to the Starfall reading activities until he's got the alphabet down. I'd do lots of reading aloud (with my finger under the words to emphasize L to R sequencing), play letter sound games, etc.

 

Best wishes to your friend's sister!

:) Carolyn

[stripe]

The first thing that stands out to me is his inability to remember letter names. I don't think that means there's anything wrong, but I do think it is a big red flag frantically waving the message that he's just not ready yet! Has she considered that possibility? Is she trying to rush him through? I can't imagine trying to push forward with reading when a child doesn't yet know the names and sounds of the letters of the alphabet.

 

I completely agree, especially when items on the list are things like:

Difficulty getting work started

Begins work before directions are fully understood

Frustrates easily

Difficulty finding the right word to use

Anxiety results in inappropriate behavior

Moves reading material often (wiggles until he's in the most bizarre positions)

Becomes fatigued while reading very quickly

Unable to keep the place

Distracted by text not being read

...Poor visual and auditory memory

Difficulty staying on task

Difficulty organizing ideas and information

Jumps to premature conclusions

 

which suggest that he's not enjoying it one bit (and neither, apparently, is the mother) and is trying to get it over with or distract her.

 

What's the rush, exactly?

 

Most 5 year old boys are wiggly. Most little kids cannot focus on too many things at one time or prioritize which is important information and which is not -- something I think many people have trouble with when tackling something they're not familiar with. How do you know which variations are normal and which are critically important? How would it be obvious that

 

g and g

or

a and a

 

are the same letter?!

 

I agree that something as short and snappy as Beechick's book on reading might help, esp since she addresses the issue of age AND suggests that initially, learning the letter names is not helpful to reading, which is the first item on her list.

 

I vote for slowing down.

Edited November 23, 2008 by stripe

[Tree House Academy]

This reminds me of my 9 year old. He has ADHD. Instead of learning (in ps) to read phonetically, he learned to read by sight. Unfortunately, that messed up EVERYTHING. He does the following when he reads and we are STILL working on it. I don't attribute it so much to his ADHD as I do to his learning to read by sight instead of phonics.

 

Difficulty sounding words out

Substitutes phonetically similar words while reading aloud (e.g., "then" for "when", "chair" for "cheer", "bread" for "broad")

Substitutes words that begin with the same letter ("big" for bed, Bill, or bobsled)

Interchanges little words, especially articles ("a" for "the") when reading aloud

Confuses word order (e.g., reading "Is it hot" for "It is hot")

Omits endings of words when reading aloud (i.e., -s, -ed, -ing) when reading aloud

Difficulty getting work started

Begins work before directions are fully understood

Frustrates easily

Difficulty finding the right word to use

Anxiety results in inappropriate behavior

Moves reading material often (wiggles until he's in the most bizarre positions)

Sometimes refuses to sound out words ("I can't remember that one!" or "I forget that word!")

Inserts or leaves out letters

Substitutes a word that means the same but is vastly different phonetically

Does not move easily from one idea to another

Difficulty in distinguishing important from unimportant information

Difficulty staying on task

Difficulty organizing ideas and information

Jumps to premature conclusions

 

 

A few of those things on her list, I think, are typical of a 5 year old, though. My 5 year old is a good reader and he learned to read phonetically, but sometimes he still will reverse letter order, read words backwards (pit instead of tip), etc. I do not worry about it in the slightest as he is just learning. He will still reverse b,d,p, and q and sometimes 2 and 5. He is 5!

[Melissa in Australia]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like normal 5 year old behavior. I'm not there, of course, so I don't see the extent of the issues, but we have almost all those same problems occasionally, and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

 

I think she would be better served if instead of making a list of all the "problems" he had, she made a list of all his accomplishments. (That sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be. It's just that I know if I sat down to write down all the problems I was having with the 5 yo I'm teaching to read, I could recreate almost that exact same list. But that would only frustrate both of us. Instead, I keep our focus on the progress she is making.)

 

:iagree:

[ElizabethB]

Using uppercase helps prevent B/D confusion.

 

Writing the words out on a whiteboard should also hold his interest better than working out of a book.

 

Spelling also helps with the memory for words...if you learn a sound/word so well you can spell it, it's much hard to forget.

 

I used all uppercase for my daughter in K, we switched to lowercase this year. She never had B/D reversal problems. She still has occasional problems with 6 and 9, however. I need to break out the HWT again to help fix that.

 

Many students taught with lowercase will have problems with b and d, and almost all children taught more than a few sight words develop b/d confusion problems to some degree.

[Perry]

I agree with Stacy. Many of these are things you would typically see in a dyslexic. On the other hand, they could be normal. I wouldn't advise her to do any testing, though. Instead, I'd recommend she use ABeCeDarian with BRI and the notched card, and join the Yahoo groups for each.

 

BRI

 

ABeCeDarian

 

If his issues are developmental and normal, he'll soon learn to read well with this approach. If he's dyslexic, he'll still learn to read with this approach, it just might take a little longer.

[In the Rain]

I probably could have used most of those phrases to describe my dd at 5. I did not push her and we didn't work on reading regularly until age 6. She caught on quickly and could read very fluently by 6 1/2. Maybe her son needs time to mature, not al kids are ready to read at 5!

[keptwoman]

The first thing that stands out to me is his inability to remember letter names. I don't think that means there's anything wrong, but I do think it is a big red flag frantically waving the message that he's just not ready yet! Has she considered that possibility? Is she trying to rush him through? I can't imagine trying to push forward with reading when a child doesn't yet know the names and sounds of the letters of the alphabet.

 

It sounds like he's struggling to perform for her, and is relying on guesses when he reads, which results in various types of word substitutions. Some of them (bread-broad, chair-cheer) point to a phonics instruction issue. He's recognizing beginning and ending sounds, but isn't sure what to do with the middles. What kind of phonics instruction has she been using? (But the issue of phonics is somewhat moot, because I still think they need to back up and work on the alphabet first!) Again, some 5 year olds aren't ready for phonics, and that's okay.

 

In that situation I'd drop reading completely. If she waits a few months or longer, things might be very different. I'd probably encourage some independent work, like Starfall for the alphabet activities, but I wouldn't encourage going forward to the Starfall reading activities until he's got the alphabet down. I'd do lots of reading aloud (with my finger under the words to emphasize L to R sequencing), play letter sound games, etc.

 

Best wishes to your friend's sister!

:) Carolyn

 

I couldn't agree more!

[swellmomma]

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like normal 5 year old behavior. I'm not there, of course, so I don't see the extent of the issues, but we have almost all those same problems occasionally, and it doesn't worry me in the slightest.

 

I think she would be better served if instead of making a list of all the "problems" he had, she made a list of all his accomplishments. (That sounds harsh, and I don't mean it to be. It's just that I know if I sat down to write down all the problems I was having with the 5 yo I'm teaching to read, I could recreate almost that exact same list. But that would only frustrate both of us. Instead, I keep our focus on the progress she is making.)

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. My ds is 5 and does not even know all the letters yet. (though yesterday he wrote his best friend's name perfectly just from me orally telling him the lettes so it is starting for him). Stuff she is worried about and has included in her list tell me the child is simply not ready yet and she needs to back way off. I do not do any formal teaching with my 5 yr old, I gave him a stationary set, a set of notebooks, an office prop box etc to get him interested in writing letters on his own,a nd we read together a lot, he is getting it without any frustrations.

 

She may find that by backing off, stopping foraml reading lessons and just having fun with words and letters with her ds makes all the difference. She is setting herself up for a power struggle over school, because she is teaching him at the young age of 5 that it is boring, frustrating and too hard.