geometry recommendations cross posted

[Melissa in Australia]

Hi guys

 I am after a geometry recommendation ds15.

 He has profound dyslexia and Dyscalcula

 we have been doing Saxon math Algebra 1. He needs very heavily modified lessons by me and a lot of hand-holding  to make it slightly  work at all. Algebra is not working.  I was thinking that we might have a break from Algebra and do Geometry . What I am after is a text that has just geometry starting right from the beginning and progressing through to advanced geometry with no or very limited algebra. lots of diagrams would be very helpful.  I don't fancy just doing a straight great books approach of Euclid etc - My son is just not engaged enough to be able to do that. 

 thanks

[8filltheheart]

Are you OK with just basic geometry vs heavy proof geometry?  MUS's geometry would definitely work for a student with LDs.  It has lots of white space without any overwhelming text in the student text.  It is definitely on the light side, though. https://www.mathcanada.ca/pdfs/sample_lessons/geometrysample.pdf  For a student with LDs and no goals to pursue STEM, it would be an OK choice. (as would their algebra texts).

[Melissa in Australia]

just looking at the sample it will not work. I would have to draw diagrams for every problem. It seems to be just text with very few diagrams.

I am after something that has lots of diagrams and will go from simple geometry right through 

 

 

 I have tried MUS in the very distant past. we were not impressed with it.

[Melissa in Australia]

I just realized that Saxon has a Geometry text. and there is an Adaptions book as well.

 Has anyone used these? I am finding it hard to see samples of the book

[LMD]

Jacob's geometry? Fairly picture heavy, not a lot of algebra from what I can see in the preview.  

https://www.nlpg.com/geometry

 

The amsi website has a lot of geometry units:

https://schools.amsi.org.au/portfolio-posts/years-9-10-3/

 

[8filltheheart]

I am perplexed by what you want. Geometry texts include the drawings for problems that need the figure for solving. I have used an older ed of the MUS geo text with all of my kids (including 3 dyslexics) and never once have had to draw a visual that wasn't included in the book. MUS's geometry is about the most straightforward geometry text you are going to find. Probably true of their algebra, as well. I have never seen any of their other texts, but those 2 are simple and straight forward.

We also use Geometry by Alexander and Koeberlein but I would not recommend it for a student who is struggling with algebra. 

[Zoo Keeper]

Maybe Basic Geometry by Jurgensen and Brown?  There is also a Basic Algebra by Dolciani and Brown. 

[Lori D.]

Totally understand if you don't think MUS will work for you, but I agree with 8FillTheHeart -- we used MUS and never needed to draw any additional images, esp. for the Geometry, as the student workbook is filled with images. There is an Honors aspect to the program as well, which adds just a bit more rigor to the very simple/basic MUS Geometry program.

Did you perhaps look at the teacher guide, rather than the student workbook? (In case you accidentally viewed something else, I'm linking the student workbook sample pages below.) Also, some problems "build" and use one image and then the student answers several questions in a row that are about that same image -- so in those cases you would also not need to draw images, but would be referring to the same image for multiple questions.

sample pages for the MUS student workbook

Edited April 24, 2019 by Lori D.

[Melissa in Australia]

Lori after looking at the link you have there  I don't know what I looked at before.  Whatever I looked at had a few pages of word problems with only 1 small diagram

[birchbark]

I would look at Learn Math Fast. They have two levels of geometry and according to reviews, have success with dyscalculia/dyslexic students.

[Melissa in Australia]

thank you everyone.

 We have decided to go with MUS- Because that seemed to be the first recommendation of just about everyone and I can buy it in Australia- so hopefully quicker delivery.

 

I should not let my dislike of a curriculum choice prejudiced using it for one of my children.

 

[Lori D.]

Hope it turns out to be a pleasant surprise and works well for both your student and you! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Bocky]

One other resource that might be of interest: Patty Paper Geometry: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1559530723/

[PeterPan]

8 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

thank you everyone.

 We have decided to go with MUS- Because that seemed to be the first recommendation of just about everyone and I can buy it in Australia- so hopefully quicker delivery.

 

I should not let my dislike of a curriculum choice prejudiced using it for one of my children.

 

Bingo. And it might be a better fit at the high school level than it was in elementary. I had my dd use it for high school, and it was FINE. I'm not saying it was super stellar; I'm enough of a math snob to know that, lol. But it was fine, kwim? What I especially liked about it for her was that it taught her how to learn. She had to monitor her comprehension, stop, say I'm not understanding this, rewind. It was really good preparation for college. She's very ADHD, and it was really good on that level. Well I'm saying it but we used all the other levels of the MUS high school materials. We had already done geometry. If I had realized we were going to move over to MUS, I would have done their geometry. We did the BJU, which is super heavy on working memory and EF drains. It was good with all those proofs, but for her it was a slog. 

Is he one who learns better by discovery? My ds has dyslexia and dyscalculia as part of his mix (plus ASD plus plus) and for him everything is always sideways and different. I don't know if we'll use a curriculum like that, we'll see. He seems to do well with something that starts with a word problem, a scenario, that then gives him a reason to figure out how he would do something and why. it's very different. But he's kinda out there, lol.

I think all you can do is try it and see! I hope it works for him. If it doesn't and you want something radically different report back. But hopefully it works really well for him! Maybe geometry will be a strong point for him. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I thought I would give an update on how we are going.

 We are pretty disappointed so far - hope it improves. we are finding that the first 2 whole chapters are all just written work and a major focus on symbol memorization - something that DS is finding extremely disappointing He was really hoping that there would be a LOT more math like pages of triangles to work out the angles of  etc. a quick flick through the book shows that there seems to be hardly any actual diagrams without a full page or written text. His words " this isn't math it seems more like a type of explode the code book" He is referring to the endless fill in the blanks and word to symbol match ups

 I am feeling completely ripped off as it was $160 Au - we were covering way more geometry just doing Saxon Algebra 1  with me swapping out adding more diagramming problems than is in this text   Sigh! I was so hoping to have a math program that He could just work through instead of me having to make up the other half of the curriculum with diagrams etc for him to practice on and without me having to sit beside him to read the text. He was so hoping to have a subject that he could do without me having to read him the text.

 

I am starting to think what I was after doesn't exist . ..............   We feel stuck with this now as it was so ridiculously expensive

 

I know that geometry could be a strong point for him but he needs to be working with visuals (even diagrams of visuals)  not text

 

[8filltheheart]

8 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I thought I would give an update on how we are going.

 We are pretty disappointed so far - hope it improves. we are finding that the first 2 whole chapters are all just written work and a major focus on symbol memorization - something that DS is finding extremely disappointing He was really hoping that there would be a LOT more math like pages of triangles to work out the angles of  etc. a quick flick through the book shows that there seems to be hardly any actual diagrams without a full page or written text. His words " this isn't math it seems more like a type of explode the code book" He is referring to the endless fill in the blanks and word to symbol match ups

 I am feeling completely ripped off as it was $160 Au - we were covering way more geometry just doing Saxon Algebra 1  with me swapping out adding more diagramming problems than is in this text   Sigh! I was so hoping to have a math program that He could just work through instead of me having to make up the other half of the curriculum with diagrams etc for him to practice on and without me having to sit beside him to read the text. He was so hoping to have a subject that he could do without me having to read him the text.

 

I am starting to think what I was after doesn't exist . ..............   We feel stuck with this now as it was so ridiculously expensive

 

I know that geometry could be a strong point for him but he needs to be working with visuals (even diagrams of visuals)  not text

 

It is hard for me to understand the bolded.  My MUS texts are not like that at all.  There are no pages at all dedicated to symbol memorization and there isn't a single page in the student book filled with written text.  The student text only has the problems.  All written text is in the TM.

It sounds like the edition you have is completely different than the book we have.  (I know mine is older and that alg and geo are combined into the same text.  But, when I looked through the books yrs ago when they separated them out into 2 separate texts, they looked the same in content, just not interspersed with each other.

Sorry you are disappointed.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Melissa, 

Is he watching the dvds?  We didn't hardly read the "textbook" at all except for answers or if we were confused by something.  It was watch the dvd, then do the student worksheet A.  Next day, do student worksheet B.  Next day, C.  And so on.

I did buy some hands on things for angle measurement and shapes and such, mainly from Lakeshore Learning, but that was to add a fun hands on aspect to it.

Hope you figure out a way to make it work.  It was the least painful geometry we could find.

 

[Melissa in Australia]

we will not watch any of the DVDs He refuses to watch DVDs in any subject. Including IEW etc. I am frustrated that MUS doesn't even give you an option to buy the teacher book without the overpriced DVD. DS doesn't even watch movies.

 the whole page of student workbook/worksheet  is all text, the whole thing. if I flick through the book there is sometimes a  small diagram but a page full of word problems.

[rose]

Have you considered printing the geometry units from MEP's middle school books? At least they would be free to look at. Here's a link to their y8 course: https://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mepres/book8/book8.htm You just need the practice books. All the rest is optional.

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

we will not watch any of the DVDs He refuses to watch DVDs in any subject...

Ug. I am SO sorry. I did not understand this about your DS before suggesting MUS, because the video lessons are the whole point of it and the program hinges on the videos of teacher explanation and demo. (Which is why MUS worked for my DS#2 with stealth dyslexia -- he could WATCH rather than READ, which allowed him to HEAR the instruction and SEE a concrete reason why the math worked, rather than trying to read and understand abstract math concepts.)

Similar to Perkybunch, we rarely needed the teacher book, but instead, watched the video lesson and then did the student work pages. I do remember that the first week or two is about learning terminology, so there were more fill-in-the-blanks in those early lessons...

I apologize -- I feel I contributed to an expensive fail for your family. 😥

Edited May 15, 2019 by Lori D.

[Melissa in Australia]

 Lori - don't blame yourself -  you tried to help with the information I provided.

 

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

Since you already bought it, I wanted to make a suggestion.  What you are actually "supposed" to do with MUS is the teacher watches the DVD and then teaches the student the lesson afterward on a white board.  A lot of us bypass that and just have the student watch the DVD, but that isn't actually what is supposed to happen.  The textbook is not written at all so someone can self-teach.  It is more like supplemental info to what Mr. Demme did in the video.  

If you had mentioned that your ds didn't watch videos and that you didn't want to teach, I'm sure none of us would have recommended MUS.  Sorry about that.

Last thing... I was thinking maybe Key To Geometry might be a fit?  There are samples on cbd.com:

https://www.christianbook.com/key-to-geometry-books-1-8/pd/43101?event=ESRCG

[8filltheheart]

Are you willing to watch the lectures and then teach what was presented. We don't use the lectures anymore (mine were on VHS when I had them!) but I know the material by heart by now, so I just open the TM, see what it is covering, and then just teach it. A typical lesson only takes about 30 mins to teach and that is what they work on all week, so it isn't a really huge time commitment 1 day a week ( the odd lesson in my books covers 2 different topics.)

[Melissa in Australia]

thank you everyone for trying to help me. I really appreciate your efforts.

we will try and muddle through with the books we have now 

sorry I was so poor at trying to express what I was after and what DS needs are.

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Melissa in Australia

[Farrar]

I'm a little confused about what you need exactly, but for both algebra and geometry for a student who struggles, I feel like the Key to Algebra and Key to Geometry series are one of the best options. It is very basic and workbooky though, and it sounds like that's not what you want exactly? Anyway, I hope continuing with MUS goes okay.

[Janeway]

Math U See or Sierra's Discovering Geometry would be good. I personally have dyslexia and really like the Dolciani book from 2000. The pages are less cluttered, more clear. And while I know not many would suggest this, I think Alpha Omega has a fine program for geometry.