Why is choosing *A* computer now impossible?

[Ginevra]

There is apparently no such thing as a portable computer that runs microsoft programs like a champ, yet also has graphics card and processor that handles gaming and music creating/editing and, oh yeah, does not cost $2k+, let alone <$1k, which was my initial hope but BWAHAHAHA, lol, that’s clearly not a reasonable expectation. Im looking at CM deals for Microsoft Surface in its many permutations, but DS19 is telling me that if I really want what ds14 needs for gaming and music software, that should be a custom-built desktop. But for schoolwork he absolutely requires a laptop or notebook. His current laptop is breaking at the hinges (2nd time I have had that problem), which is a big motive for me behind Surface. 

I also don’t half know what I’m talking about except for basic assumptions like 1Terabite is obviously better than any number of GB. 

I am seriously considering taking $2k out of his UGMA and calling it a necessary educational expense and justifying it that way. But it still means he gets a very expensive Christmas gift way outside the gift budget for the other kids. 

I am frozen with indecision. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Quill

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Arctic Mama said:

That is some typo there 🤣

Fruedian slip. Computers are a dirtyword with me today. 

[Mergath]

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GV62-8RD-034-i7-8750H-Steelseries/dp/B07BWF4H3W/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1543253454&sr=1-1&refinements=p_4%3AMSI

[Mergath]

There are quite a few gaming laptops that should meet your requirements. 

[Mergath]

https://www.amazon.com/IPS-Type-Display-FireCuda-Keyboard-GL503VD/dp/B0753MSN75/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1543253525&amp;sr=1-11&amp;keywords=Asus+gaming+laptop

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mergath said:

There are quite a few gaming laptops that should meet your requirements. 

So, tell me like I am an exceptionally slow five-year-old: the gaming laptops you linked will run Microsoft Word/Office? For typing up schoolwork, etc. Is that something I then buy separately and download or install? 

[Peaceseeker]

A desktop is the less expensive way to go for gaming.  A gaming laptop is a bit of a luxury, as the same specs on a desktop are usually much cheaper. If he doesn't have to be mobile for gaming, I would go with the desktop.  If he can build or outfit his own it provides a great learning opportunity on top of saving money and getting some custom specs.

Does he have to be mobile for school?  If so, you could get an inexpensive laptop just for school.  Added bonus that it won't support much gaming so he might be less distracted and less tempted to game while doing school.  So getting one of each might be an option.  Maybe one for Christmas and one as a necessary school expense?  

[Mergath]

A custom-built desktop would be best because it will have more memory, improved cooling, a mobo that lets you actually replace components instead of everything being freaking soldered on or whatever it is they're doing now to screw us. But to keep it really simple, if he HAS to have a laptop, and it has to work for gaming and video editing, you're going to want to go on Amazon, search for gaming laptops, and find something with at least a GTX 1080 (a 1080ti would be better, but that's going to push up the price) at least 16gb DDR, and at least one TB of hard drive space. Solid state drives are more stable and faster, but that wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me if a laptop has everything else I need at a great price.

Is gaming going to be the main thing he uses it for?

And yes, any of those laptops would run any of the programs you mentioned without breaking a sweat. 😉

[Peaceseeker]

For Microsoft office you have to buy the software separately and install it, or they have a program where you pay a monthly fee and always have the latest version.

https://products.office.com/en-US/compare-all-microsoft-office-products-b?tab=1&amp;OCID=AID737190_SEM_EFFgPrWW&amp;lnkd=Bing_O365SMB_NI&amp;msclkid=c59b08aa9d841b635e375356ada3f8ea

 

[Mergath]

Don't even look at tablets because they are not going to work for what he needs, full stop.

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, Quill said:

 Im looking at CM deals for Microsoft Surface in its many permutations, but DS19 is telling me that if I really want what ds14 needs for gaming and music software, that should be a custom-built desktop. But for schoolwork he absolutely requires a laptop or notebook. His current laptop is breaking at the hinges (2nd time I have had that problem), which is a big motive for me behind Surface. 

 

Upgrade the desktop by parts and maybe in installment, like upgrade the graphic card followed by RAM (memory) followed by faster hard disk.

Get a $400 and under laptop for school. If the hinge breaks within a year, warranty would cover the repair for free since it is manufacting defect. Normal wear and tear would usually damage the hinge in two to three year’s time as the minimum. Also it is cheaper to replace a $400 laptop for school if it really kaput after a year of heavy usage than to replace a $2k gaming laptop. It is also less of a distraction. I can take away my DS12’s phone and tablet during schoolwork time but it’s harder to prevent distractions on a laptop. DS13 was drawing last night when he should be finishing his history homework 😛

[LucyStoner]

It's because there's a lot of frigging choices and all brands seem to have quality issues, which can lead to indecision.  I would be inclined to get him a gaming desktop for the Christmas gift and a cheap laptop for school as a regular expense.  A cheap laptop for school+ a gaming desktop will be less than $2000, and could be less than $1200.  Maybe just get him a gift card for the gaming computer and he can top up the features with his own money?  

A serviceable school laptop can be found for $400ish.  I have a decent one I use for work and it was $550ish.  Does he need Office installed or does his school provide access to Microsoft 365 (my son's school does).  Skip the surface, it's not enough for either the need (school) or want (gaming) IME.  

I think there is a benefit to divorcing gaming device from school device TBH.  

Edited November 26, 2018 by LucyStoner

[Guest]

I don’t have an upgradable desktop he can use. I have a desktop for my office (PC) that cannot be for him to play on and I have an ancient Mac desktop that probably cannot come up to date that far no matter what. So he would first need a desktop from this millenium before it can be turned into anything for gaming. And then he still requires a functional schoolwork laptop. 

Hmm. I just wish there was another grown up around here who would figure it out for me. 

[vonfirmath]

46 minutes ago, Mergath said:

There are quite a few gaming laptops that should meet your requirements. 

 

Enh... I understand DS19's point.  I have owned a gaming laptop. But I still prefer gaming on the desktop. A gaming laptop plugged into a dock with a separate monitor and keyboard would probably work decent too.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

It's because there's a lot of frigging choices and all brands seem to have quality issues, which can lead to indecision.  I would be inclined to get him a gaming desktop for the Christmas gift and a cheap laptop for school as a regular expense.  A cheap laptop for school+ a gaming desktop will be less than $2000, and could be less than $1200.  Maybe just get him a gift card for the gaming computer and he can top up the features with his own money?  

A serviceable school laptop can be found for $400ish.  I have a decent one I use for work and it was $550ish.  Does he need Office installed or does his school provide access to Microsoft 365 (my son's school does).  Skip the surface, it's not enough for either the need (school) or want (gaming) IME.  

He will need office installed now (he is home at present but has an online class). I don’t know what he will have access to next schoolyear (at B&m school). 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

 

Enh... I understand DS19's point.  I have owned a gaming laptop. But I still prefer gaming on the desktop. A gaming laptop plugged into a dock with a separate monitor and keyboard would probably work decent too.

I guess that explains why a dock (which means nothing to me at all; dont know what that is) is listed as a frequent pairing item. 

[LucyStoner]

One main advantage of gaming desktops is better cooling vs. the laptop models.  Also, a gaming desktop will be cheaper.  

[Guest]

Can I get an upgrade on my current husband? He was manufactured in 1963 and is not compatible with any current technology. 😄

[Guest]

Just now, LucyStoner said:

One main advantage of gaming desktops is better cooling vs. the laptop models.  Also, a gaming desktop will be cheaper.  

This is exactly what DS19 said. Overheating is a big problem for trying to game on laptop. 

[Mergath]

Yeah, I agree that a gaming desktop plus a cheap school laptop would be the best combo. But if it absolutely must be a laptop, there are quite a few options out there.

If you decide to go with the former, there are some solid prebuilt pcs out there. It doesn't have to be a custom pc.

[sweet2ndchance]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

He will need office installed now (he is home at present but has an online class). I don’t know what he will have access to next schoolyear (at B&m school). 

 

Does it have to be Microsoft Office? Could he use Google Docs or Libre Office or Open Office?  He can use Google Docs from any computer with internet access.

A hardcore gamer really needs a desktop to be able to keep up. To play the latest games at release, you need to be able to upgrade memory, video card and other components as the need arises. Laptops, especially ones that are marketed toward the general public and not custom built for niche use, are notoriously hard to upgrade. They typically have onboard graphics that are sub par for gaming. Your trade off a little bit of performance for portability with a laptop. For most people it's not even noticeable but for a gamer it can literally be the difference between  life and death for their game character lol!

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

He will need office installed now (he is home at present but has an online class). I don’t know what he will have access to next schoolyear (at B&m school). 

 

Is the online class particular about using Microsoft Office only? My kids have used LibreOffice, Google Docs and Google Sheets for documents and spreadsheets. These are all free to use. None of their online teachers has insisted on Microsoft Office though one has insisted on Google docs.

B&M schools locally either gets their student to use Google docs and sheets or has the school student license for Microsoft Office.

[Mergath]

5 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

 

Does it have to be Microsoft Office? Could he use Google Docs or Libre Office or Open Office?  He can use Google Docs from any computer with internet access.

A hardcore gamer really needs a desktop to be able to keep up. To play the latest games at release, you need to be able to upgrade memory, video card and other components as the need arises. Laptops, especially ones that are marketed toward the general public and not custom built for niche use, are notoriously hard to upgrade. They typically have onboard graphics that are sub par for gaming. Your trade off a little bit of performance for portability with a laptop. For most people it's not even noticeable but for a gamer it can literally be the difference between  life and death for their game character lol!

 

I mean, she could just buy a PC with a Titan V and not have to worry about it for a few years, but she probably doesn't want to spend $3k on the graphics card alone. 🤣

Some of the gaming laptops aren't half bad now, actually, if you don't plan on upgrading. My dh has an Asus ROG laptop that worked decently for years. He has a really good chill mat with it, of course, but I feel like it was definitely worth what we paid, though I did have to go in and replace the thermal paste on the cpu and gpu once. We upgraded this year to a really nice gaming PC though. The difference is very noticeable when I'm playing something like Fallout with the graphics all the way up. But that also cost a nauseating amount of money. It was a good deal, though. We couldn't have built it ourselves for the same price. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

Is the online class particular about using Microsoft Office only? My kids have used LibreOffice, Google Docs and Google Sheets for documents and spreadsheets. These are all free to use. None of their online teachers has insisted on Microsoft Office though one has insisted on Google docs.

B&M schools locally either gets their student to use Google docs and sheets or has the school student license for Microsoft Office.

No, it’s not. The class uses Google docs. But *I personally* don’t know diddly squat except Microsoft. So if it doesnt have M, Im unable to help him if that is needed. 

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

No, it’s not. The class uses Google docs. But *I personally* don’t know diddly squat except Microsoft. So if it doesnt have M, Im unable to help him if that is needed. 

 

Google Docs has a mild learning curve especially for kids. The extra benefit is that the work is always backed up in the Google Drive when there is an internet connection.   I’ll let him figure out how to use Google Docs and Google sheets instead of worrying about paying for an Office 365 subscription.

[sweet2ndchance]

Yeah dh's brother has a nauseatingly expensive laptop that is an excellent gaming and work computer and has lasted him years now but he paid dearly for the relatively future proof internals. In the OPs situation though, either the expectations or the budget needs to change. Gaming on a budget will mean a desktop for sure. Gaming with the expectation of portability and a quality gaming experience will mean a bigger budget is needed. I personally prefer gaming on a desktop because I like knowing that I don't have to replace the whole thing, just the internals to upgrade in the future and I can do it a piece at a time as the budget allows.

[vonfirmath]

16 minutes ago, Quill said:

No, it’s not. The class uses Google docs. But *I personally* don’t know diddly squat except Microsoft. So if it doesnt have M, Im unable to help him if that is needed. 

 

My son uses Google Docs. There are differences from Word Doc (but a lot of similarities so I can make reasonable guesses as to how to do certain things) -- but that is what my son needs to use so we are learning.

 

(One thing we learned the day the Internet at home kept going out -- we took his ipad to Wendy's and downloaded the google document he was working on to "Work Offline" then went home to work on. Luckily our Internet came on before he had to turn it in. If not, we'd have gone back out to somewhere that had Internet to put it back into "Work online" mode and turn it in)

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by vonfirmath

[vonfirmath]

44 minutes ago, Quill said:

I guess that explains why a dock (which means nothing to me at all; dont know what that is) is listed as a frequent pairing item. 

 

A dock is something you plug the laptop into and then plug peripherals into the dock and can use the harddrive/programs on the laptop itself as if it was any regular desktop.

 

I used one when mobile at Boeing and it made getting work done much easier than using the cramped laptop screen/keyboard dynamics

[Guest]

Ok. After much back-and-forth with DS19 and reading this thread, here is my gameplan: I’m not purchasing today. DS19 is going to build a desktop for Christmas with components I will buy. DS’ gift to other DS will be the effort and time and our gift to DS14 will be the desktop. 

I will address the laptop for schoolwork at a later date. He has one now; it is not optimal, but it’s feasible so we limp along with that for the time being. 

It’s not a perfect solution but I think it is the best option for the expense. 

[Mergath]

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

Ok. After much back-and-forth with DS19 and reading this thread, here is my gameplan: I’m not purchasing today. DS19 is going to build a desktop for Christmas with components I will buy. DS’ gift to other DS will be the effort and time and our gift to DS14 will be the desktop. 

I will address the laptop for schoolwork at a later date. He has one now; it is not optimal, but it’s feasible so we limp along with that for the time being. 

It’s not a perfect solution but I think it is the best option for the expense. 

 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

[BlsdMama]

23 minutes ago, Quill said:

Ok. After much back-and-forth with DS19 and reading this thread, here is my gameplan: I’m not purchasing today. DS19 is going to build a desktop for Christmas with components I will buy. DS’ gift to other DS will be the effort and time and our gift to DS14 will be the desktop. 

I will address the laptop for schoolwork at a later date. He has one now; it is not optimal, but it’s feasible so we limp along with that for the time being. 

It’s not a perfect solution but I think it is the best option for the expense. 

Decent call.  TBH, our son is in engineering at school - he uses the high tech and uber expensive engineering lab.  His laptop is almost purely for online gaming and working within the cloud.  Things like Word and Excel aren't important anymore because he uses Docs.  His schoolwork is done at labs and the library in large part. He views his laptop as little more than an ability to get online fwiw.
 

[Peaceseeker]

If he doesn't have to have the portability for school he can also do his work on the gaming desktop until you can replace the laptop. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

There is apparently no such thing as a portable computer that runs microsoft programs like a champ, yet also has graphics card and processor that handles gaming and music creating/editing and, oh yeah, does not cost $2k+, let alone <$1k, which was my initial hope but BWAHAHAHA, lol, that’s clearly not a reasonable expectation. Im looking at CM deals for Microsoft Surface in its many permutations, but DS19 is telling me that if I really want what ds14 needs for gaming and music software, that should be a custom-built desktop. But for schoolwork he absolutely requires a laptop or notebook. His current laptop is breaking at the hinges (2nd time I have had that problem), which is a big motive for me behind Surface. 

I also don’t half know what I’m talking about except for basic assumptions like 1Terabite is obviously better than any number of GB. 

I am seriously considering taking $2k out of his UGMA and calling it a necessary educational expense and justifying it that way. But it still means he gets a very expensive Christmas gift way outside the gift budget for the other kids. 

I am frozen with indecision. 

I wonder if it may actually be cheaper to set up a gaming desktop and buy a cheap laptop for school.  I have a $300 laptop for school and it works great but if I wanted to game it would be $2k plus for a laptop.  It’s cheaper to get higher spec desktops and they don’t need to be portable for at home gaming.

essentially you are right though - however you swing it the gaming side of things is what makes it expensive and you have to figure out it you want to finance that.

[easypeasy]

So, where would one find a solid tutorial for building a gaming desktop? DS has wanted to do this forever. He's researched, but I've been too busy to double-check what he wants to order and need a tutorial to help me understand what he wants to do and how is best to go about it? Poor kid's been hobbling around with a decidedly non-gaming desktop that dd2 built a few years ago (And works great - but meant for gaming!)

Best sites to order this stuff from?

[Mergath]

1 hour ago, easypeasy said:

So, where would one find a solid tutorial for building a gaming desktop? DS has wanted to do this forever. He's researched, but I've been too busy to double-check what he wants to order and need a tutorial to help me understand what he wants to do and how is best to go about it? Poor kid's been hobbling around with a decidedly non-gaming desktop that dd2 built a few years ago (And works great - but meant for gaming!)

Best sites to order this stuff from?

 

This tutorial looks pretty solid: https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/13/17828092/gaming-pc-build-custom-how-to-asus-intel-geforce-cost

But it's really just a matter of learning about each component as you go; no tutorial is going to cover everything. My specific advice would be, DON'T SKIMP ON THE PSU. A shitty power supply can brick your entire PC. And don't skimp on the graphics card, either. 

I know a lot of people who buy from newegg.

[Arcadia]

This MSI entry level gaming laptop was $699 yesterday according to camelcamelcamel, currently $799. MSI was already famous for computer graphic cards back in the 80s when people DIY their own desktop PCs.

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GV62-8RD-200-Performance-Steelseries/dp/B07D4ZML7M/

[Lanny]

Frozen with indecision is a good place for you to begin.  IMO the best solutions is not to buy "A" machine but to buy "2" machines.  The Gaming should be done with a (probably home built) Desktop. There is another thread somewhere here (Chat or College or High School?) that has an interesting link to the parts required for the Gaming Desktop. I think approximately $800 USD, but I don't remember if that includes a Display.   Probably the Display is not included in that price.

Gaming Laptops are expensive and probably would not give the user a good experience, unless there are external peripherals (Mouse, Keyboard and Monitor ) attached, which makes them not as easily portable as just the Laptop.

A low end Windows Laptop will be fine for the Microsoft Office Apps.  I would try to get one with at least 4 GB of RAM.  The majority of the $ available should go into the Gaming Desktop and not so much into the Windows Laptop.   75% to the Gaming Desktop and 25% to the Windows Laptop. Something like that.

[Tree Frog]

On 11/26/2018 at 12:51 PM, Quill said:

No, it’s not. The class uses Google docs. But *I personally* don’t know diddly squat except Microsoft. So if it doesnt have M, Im unable to help him if that is needed. 

When I became a board member for a booster organization, I had to learn Google docs and sheets. When I had a question, YouTube was my answer. I found all the info I needed to help me. I still don't like Google docs or sheets, but the portability as mentioned by another op is the significant advantage and the reason I used it. My kids prefer Google docs over Microsoft; that's what they use in college and high school. Your son would figure it out quickly.

[Arcadia]

9 hours ago, Lanny said:

The majority of the $ available should go into the Gaming Desktop and not so much into the Windows Laptop.   75% to the Gaming Desktop and 25% to the Windows Laptop. Something like that.

 

I agree with buying two machines instead of a good gaming laptop. The MSI gaming laptop link was a FYI, just in case recommendation.

However, I would spend more on a windows laptop that can last hopefully for the entire high school years as that is a need. I would sponsor a fix amount for the gaming desktop and let my kid use his fun money to upgrade to better specifications like better graphics card and so on as the gaming desktop is a want.

My kids almost four years old 15.4” windows laptops that we bought for less than $400 are still working fine. We decided to splurge and get them 13” laptops so that it is lighter on their backpacks as we take public transport (buses and light rail trains) to most of their outside classes.