what does classical unschooling look like?

[dorothy]

until what age can you unschool? what happens to kids who unschool all the way through when they get to college? what do you DO when you unschool? how do you make sure your dc is not going to want to spend every day loafing rather than learning? I just do not understand and really want to.

[Mandamom]

deleted

Edited November 17, 2008 by Mandamom

[Lori D.]

Below are definitions for unschooling and for classical education. I think it would be difficult to combine the two philosophies. As far as how soon can you start homeschooling -- really, you do that from the moment your child is born.

 

If you mean teaching them "school things" -- the unschooling philosophy holds you're continuing that kind of teaching you did when they were young (to speak, to tie their shoes, to not touch a hot stove) into all real life situations, so math is learned at the gas pump, from a store receipt, etc. The classical educational homeschooling model puts a high value on reading, writing, and reasoning abilities, and generally uses more traditional educational materials, which a parent would begin using when the child shows a readiness for that area -- anywhere from age 3 to 6 or 7.

 

These are very broad examples (above) and definitions (below). Perhaps others on this board could give more specific help if you posted some specific details about your situation and goals?

 

BEST of luck in your educational journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

UNSCHOOLING

An educational philosophy which in its broadest sense is education that:

- tends to be child "delight-directed"

- does not use traditional, formal methods or materials

- is more focused on learning or becoming educated rather than "doing school"

 

 

Definition (from a longer Wikipedia article):

 

"While there is significant variation in what is meant by "unschooling", generally speaking, unschoolers believe that the use of standard curricula and conventional grading methods, as well as other features of traditional schooling, are counterproductive to the goal of maximizing the education of each child. Instead, unschoolers typically allow children to learn through their natural life experiences, including game play, household responsibilities, and social interaction."

 

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling

 

 

Unschooling.com FAQs

http://www.unschooling.com/library/faq/index.shtml

 

 

CLASSICAL EDUCATION

An educational philosophy which in its broadest sense is education that is:

- trivium based (a 3-part process training the mind: grammer stage (absorbing facts); logic stage (learn to think through argument); rhetoric stage (learn to express self)

- tends to use Western culture and ancient Greek classics in the educational process

 

 

Well Trained Mind website definition:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.html

[Ellie]

until what age can you unschool? what happens to kids who unschool all the way through when they get to college? what do you DO when you unschool? how do you make sure your dc is not going to want to spend every day loafing rather than learning? I just do not understand and really want to.

 

Yes, certainly, many people unschool all the way to college. Unschoolers *do* use textbooks if what they want to learn requires it, or if their path in life requires it.

 

Unschooling doesn't mean undiscipline. Ok, it *can* mean that to some people, lol, but unschooling just means that children are learning things in ways that don't look like school. If their parents are wise, the children will have household responsiblities, but otherwise they don't control what their children are learning.

 

Someone, somewhere, talked about what classical unschooling looked like, and I'm so sad that I didn't save that message. At least part of it had to do, though, with having a house full of the kinds of books that classical homeschoolers might want to learn from, and reading aloud from those books to the dc. It was quite inspiring; it sounded like something even I could do :-)

[melissel]

Here are a couple of links that might help you.

 

http://bruggietales.blogspot.com/2006/12/structured-classical-unschooling.html

 

http://everywakinghour.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-classically-unschool-i-wish.html

 

There have also been some threads on the main board, so if you search the terms classical unschooling over there, you'll see a few discussing it.

[Rosie_0801]

There is a classical unschoolers social group too, so that would be a good place to drop in.

:)

Rosie

[prairiegirl]

I have been struggling with the concept of 'classical uncshooling' this past week. CE resonates very deeply with me, it always has, but I I don't like the rigid part of it. The sitting at the table and doing all of the subjects in a conveyor belt manner does not sit right with me. This is not what I signed up for. But I am having difficulty in translating what comes natural for me (more of a child-led, relaxed learning style) into Classical Education. I don't even know if that is possible.

 

I have been thinking of doing the 'must-do- subjects (like math, reading, writing and latin) first then have the rest of our learning time spent on what the children want to do. I don't know if that would be considered classical unschooling or not.

 

As Rosie said, there is a Classical Unschooling social group but they don't really define what it means to them. You could start a conversation over there, though.

Edited November 17, 2008 by prairiegirl

[Peela]

until what age can you unschool? what happens to kids who unschool all the way through when they get to college? what do you DO when you unschool? how do you make sure your dc is not going to want to spend every day loafing rather than learning? I just do not understand and really want to.

 

You might like Gareth Lewis's books- I have the one for ages 11-18. its called Unqualified Education. The one for 0-11 is called One -to-One; A Practical Guide to Learning at Home. I find the one I have to be full of Classical information, but presented in an unschooling fashion.

 

Another good book is the Teenage Liberation Handbook- its written to teenagers but is a very inspiring read for parents, even of younger kids.

 

I think it probably depends on your particular breed of kid, to a large extent. Some kids are very self motivated, are drawn to reading Jane Austen and learning Latin and Ancient history. Perhaps more would be if they werent first polluted by school, but that seems to quite quickly destroy a love of learning in many kids. But if your kid is interested and will follow your lead and read the books you strew around the place and teach themselves science- well, it just does seem to work for some kids.

I think one of the great drawbacks is that we are in a technological age and many kids- I have one- are easily addicted to the stimulation and entertainment of computer games etc, which really does seem to limit their creativity and flow into other areas.

 

As for loafing around- who says that is such a bad thing? We live in an age where we are expected to be incredibly productive- but daydreaming, time to loaf around and just think- is a valuable thing, and underestimated. I hear many kids who start unschooling do loaf around a lot at first- to decompress- but after a while, they feel a pull and move in some direction or another.

 

I do feel the value in it is a child who is actually interested and engaged with what they are learning, because they are choosing to learn it. Many of us find our kids not as engaged as we would prefer- but the truth is, they are not given much choice. Thats our choice.

 

I dont unschool but I do have respect for it to some extent, because it has produced many brilliant people, in my understanding- but also, you will find many parents who try it and do not feel it works for them.

This board is full of people who consciously and deliberately create and direct thier kids' education, and a few unschoolers, so it may not be the best place to ask.

 

I would love to see more classical unschooling models but havent come across many.

[Ellie]

I have been struggling with the concept of 'classical uncshooling' this past week. CE resonates very deeply with me, it always has, but I I don't like the rigid part of it. The sitting at the table and doing all of the subjects in a conveyor belt manner does not sit right with me. This is not what I signed up for. But I am having difficulty in translating what comes natural for me (more of a child-led, relaxed learning style) into Classical Education. I don't even know if that is possible.

I didn't sign up for that, either :-p

 

I have been thinking of doing the 'must-do- subjects (like math, reading, writing and latin) first then have the rest of our learning time spent on what the children want to do. I don't know if that would be considered classical unschooling or not.

I wouldn't say that it was "unschooling," but it might work for you.

 

As Rosie said, there is a Classical Unschooling social group but they don't really define what it means to them. You could start a conversation over there, though.

Unschoolers don't usually define stuf, lol.

[Rosie_0801]

I have been thinking of doing the 'must-do- subjects (like math, reading, writing and latin) first then have the rest of our learning time spent on what the children want to do. I don't know if that would be considered classical unschooling or not.

 

You know, you don't have to put those two words together. You can do classical AND unschooling, instead of classical unschooling- whatever that might be. There's no law that says you have to be any style in particular, so there's no need to concern yourself with the labels. Do what you want to do, then try and find a suitable label, instead of doing the other way around. It is easier that way!

I don't intend to sign up to anything that requires us to spend all day up close and personal with the kitchen table either. My kids are still babies, so I haven't actually DONE any of these things, but I sure have done a lot of thinking :) I'm humanities trained, so I don't underestimate the education value of talking and listening. There's a time and place for essays, but there's immense value in just talking about some things. Talking and listening doesn't have to happen at the kitchen table. I also went out of my way to find practical, investigative style maths and science programs. The more real world these subjects are, the more point there is to learning it and less time needs to be spent at the kitchen table. Also, the ones I've chosen are more flexible than the average, so you can move around according to kiddie interest or neccessity without mucking up schedules and stressing Mamma out about missing important things.

I'm the same as you, hoping we can get the essentials done in the morning, spend the afternoons pursuing our own interests, crafts, mooching or whatever, and perhaps doing some of the lighter subjects when Dad comes home. Better, I think, to spend the evening at the table doing art together than everyone sitting around ignoring everyone else. Under those circumstances people will talk, so Daddy gets to find out what everyone has been up to that day. Like I said though, my kiddies are babies so this is all hypothetical. Still, having thought out how I want it to work gives me better chances of success than if I hadn't put the vague feelings into words!

Maybe you think you want to be classical, but you really just want to be classical-ish? That's ok. I think most people on this board are a bit on the -ish side.

 

:)

Rosie

[Donna A.]

You know, I think I could call myself a classical unschooler, as there are some elements of the classical method that I believe in strongly, some only somewhat, and some that I think are completely unnecessary for a good, strong education. That's one thing I like about MFW... it's a "curriculum package", yes, but it's flexible enough to tweak, add or delete as desired. I've seen some people complain that MFW isn't truly "classical"... well no, it's not. Not according to some people's definition of classical, that is. Others say it's "not CM enough". Umm, okay. If that means it's not Ambleside, then no, it's not. I don't believe in twaddle, but I don't believe they need to be reading college level material (w/mature themes) at the age of 12, either. But MFW certainly has a strong CM flavor.

 

No, I don't work for MFW. LOL. But I do consider them to be very "balanced" in combining methods, and the strong biblical (non-denominational) focus all the way through makes it that much more appealing to me. Do I always follow it as written? No, but that's where the built-in flexibility comes in. If I need to follow a guide w/o thinking about what's next during a season, it's there. If I want to totally change up the way we do a section (or a year), I can do that, too. :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

I have been thinking of doing the 'must-do- subjects (like math, reading, writing and latin) first then have the rest of our learning time spent on what the children want to do. I don't know if that would be considered classical unschooling or not.

I belong to the social group, and this pretty much is what I plan to do. Though, I have finally decided no latin. Final. Really. :)

 

I think that having a good classical history program available like maybe a SL core, WP program, or all of the books with SOTW AG on the shelf for your child to choose from, science experiments and art supplies available, science and art programs, good literature, and other educational items that you can think of... but let the children go through them at their own pace. Schedule a certain amount of time for basics, and a certain amount for extras, but let the kids choose what the extras are. Certainly schedule a certain amount of time for school so that they cannot choose to play video games or listen to music all day, but they get to choose what academics they are pursuing, and spend most of the day on one subject and go a whole year without a subject if they want.

 

So there you have it... my ramblings. I will read through all the posts later; I only got halfway through.

[Crimson Wife]

The Bluedorns take a "better late than early" approach to formal education but afterwords it's very much in the classical tradition. They don't start the grammar stage until age 10. See: http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/suggested_course_of_study.php

 

What they suggest prior to age 10 isn't exactly "unschooling" but it is definitely more relaxed than TWTM.

[swellmomma]

What I have done with my first 2 and will with the next two is unschool until 3rd/4th grade, then we did a year of unit studies which got them used to sitting down for school time, more focused on book work. NOw for grade 4/5 we are classically schooling, I really like doing it this way, they are so much more mature and ready to handle the work without much problem. I don't like the idea of young children doing a lot of seat work, etc especially young boys who are less mature. My 3rd child is 5 and though we say he is in kindergarten, he is so not even ready for K, if we did ps he would be in preschool right now not K. I could not imagine doing history etc with him at age 6. For him I am workng on the basic skills learning through play rather than seat work. Once he is older and more mature we will switch gears.

 

I know there is unschoolers who do so right through high school but I am not comfortable with that. For me grade 3 is my upper limit.

[Lovedtodeath]

You know, I think I could call myself a classical unschooler, as there are some elements of the classical method that I believe in strongly, some only somewhat, and some that I think are completely unnecessary for a good, strong education.

 

:iagree:If only I agreed with MFW world view. Sigh it doesn't work after 1st grade.

[rafiki]

.

[Donna A.]

:iagree:If only I agreed with MFW world view. Sigh it doesn't work after 1st grade.

 

Why not? I'm curious. How does their worldview change after 1st grade?

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, in K and 1st they concentrate on the Bible itself. After that you add in missionaries of their particular religion. I understand also that they have the view that God controls events throughout history and has the USA as a chosen nation.

 

We are all set to use WP for history. But I am open to other suggestions that may be similar to MFW without the above.

[Donna A.]

Well, in K and 1st they concentrate on the Bible itself. After that you add in missionaries of their particular religion. I understand also that they have the view that God controls events throughout history and has the USA as a chosen nation.

 

We are all set to use WP for history. But I am open to other suggestions that may be similar to MFW without the above.

 

Okay, I think maybe you've been given some bad information? MFW is non-denominational. Christian (as in, born-again) and evangelistic, yes, but beyond that, non-denominational. I know one family in the MFW office is Christian (by denomination... maybe Church of Christ?), another is Lutheran, and there are others as well. Personally, we are Reformed Baptist but were in a PCA at the time we found MFW. I know lots of MFW users who aren't "Reformed anything".

 

No, they do NOT teach the U.S. as "a chosen nation". Not like some denoms I know of. They do use some resources from CLP, if that's what you mean, but they use many other resources as well, including secular and other "religions".

 

If you use ECC and read some of those missionary bios, you will see that they come from many different denominations. Other years use books by and about other Christians' experience. Some examples: Corrie Ten Boom was a Christian Jew. Brother Andrew called himself Baptist, but his primary purpose in life was to get Bibles to Christians in communist countries and his denomination is rarely even mentioned in "The Narrow Road". They use Bible study guides and books written by Kay Arthur, Patricia St. John, Rick Warren (a read-aloud scheduled in high school, but we personally plan to substitute this book), and so on.... none of which view the U.S. as "a chosen nation".

 

The thing they all have in common is that they're evangelistic, so I'm not sure what you mean by "After that you add in missionaries of their particular religion." The Hazell's have purposely kept denominational specifics out of their curriculum. We have found it to be VERY Christ-focused and God's Word-centered. All of Matthew is read in ECC, much of the OT is read in Creation to the Greeks, much of the NT is read in Rome to Reformation, and all of the Old Testament is read in high school. I would imagine they'll have the student reading all of the New Testament in high school, as well.

 

Their scheduled books do, however, state very factually how many Christians were led to the U.S. when it was discovered and founded. But of course, we are also taught that many lost people were led to and part of the founding of America, so.... we haven't found it to be "slanted" one way or the other. Which, btw, is exactly what we were looking for when we found MFW.

 

Here's a discussion of just how much the Bible itself is a big focus of MFW throughout the entire curriculum:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=4277

 

Here's a discussion on religion/denominations using MFW:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=2224

 

Christian worldview training and MFW?

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=3254

 

Does MFW promote a thirst for Christ?

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=3149

 

Exposing children to other beliefs:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=1275

 

MFW approach to US history/Patriotism:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=1362

 

Statement of Faith from MFW:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=1100

 

HTH clear it up a bit. I think that some folks look at a couple of books they're using and make assumptions based on that, but it's always good to poke around on the forums and/or call the office and ask just to make sure. And that may not even be your specific concern... I'm just guessing based on past discussions I've seen. But hopefully this will help someone else who's wondering where they stand, as well.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Donna A.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thank you so much for clarifying. Is this the case then?

I understand also that they have the view that God controls events throughout history.

 

Okay, I think maybe you've been given some bad information? MFW is non-denominational. Christian (as in, born-again)

 

What if I am a Christian who does not believe in all Christians being born again?

 

In what time period are the missionary stories set? How much of the curriculum involves missionaries (if I left them out, is very little left)?

 

I am worried that WP may be too much for us... other than that I am happy with it for the most part.

[Donna A.]

I PM'd you, Carmen.