Memorizing math facts (for a kid with LD)...?

[TheReader]

My youngest has a variety of LDs -- severe dyslexia being the biggest  named deficit, but also insanely low working memory, slow processing, and he just learns....differently. 

With math, he is actually able to grasp the concepts on a pretty phenomenal level, really, yet he doesn't have any facts memorized. He can work out complex problems (well, multi-digit by multi-digit multiplication or division), and all on his own he figured out how to use his 10x10 abacus to work similar problems earlier on.....but he still has to work out each and every problem, ya know? None of the facts are memorized. 

Is there a resource out there that will help him learn these things? Or should I push it? I let him use a calculator for some stuff, because I know he knows *how* to do things....but he's entering 7th grade, and next year will be hitting pre-Algebra and on up....it will just go much faster/easier if he has at least basic addition/multiplication facts memorized....but yet....how? 

If it helps, he used Miquon for early math, and now we're using Shiller Math (Montessori methods) for his upper elementary math; both of those really work with how he learns/conceptualizes math. He is dx'ed with dyscalculia, but I don't know if that's 100% accurate; he had some gaps because we hadn't covered things (well, and he does have gaps -- still has trouble remembering days of the week, months of the year, how to tell time......things he has mastered, and forgotten, many many many times over the years.....).

Suggestions? Curriculum, or methods, or tricks, or....? 

[Ravin]

Honestly? If I had a do-over with my DD, I'd have stopped trying to drill math facts into her much sooner. Grasping concepts is more important than memorizing facts. Give him tools, whether it's a times table, abacus, calculator, etc. and let him get on with it.

[Lecka]

I like Reflex Math.  It does good repetition and review, it doesn’t have too many new things at once.  

Its worth a try.  I wouldn’t do it if it were hated.  

I think it’s worth keeping on doing a few minutes a few times a week.  

Off the top of my head for Reflex Math it’s 20 minutes 3 times a week for a minimum recommendation (for how it’s set up).  

But do what works for your child!!!!!!!  If it’s demoralizing then it’s not helpful.  

 

[laundrycrisis]

51 minutes ago, TheReader said:

My youngest has a variety of LDs -- severe dyslexia being the biggest  named deficit, but also insanely low working memory, slow processing, and he just learns....differently. 

 

DS1 has similar issues.  I don’t know if it’s still available but Mastering Mathematics is what finally worked for him to learn the facts. You start with just what you can add with 0, 1 and 2.  You don’t move on until those are completely solid. Then you include 3, etc. only increasing the library of memorized facts in really small increments at a time. You don’t subtract until all the addition is solid and then do subtraction as a rearrangement of the addition facts so they aren’t brand new facts.  For multiplication you start all over with a new library. Then division is a rearrangement of multiplication.  It took him months just to get the addition facts, but after so many years of facts being out of his reach, it was like a miracle. After learning the addition, the others came more easily. 

I believe in math facts no matter how hard they are for someone, because mathematical fluency is impossible without it.  DS1 is a person who a psychologist thought may not be able to learn them, but with this method he did, and it made a tremendous difference in the ease of math for him.  A “disability” overcome. A life changed ! Letz Farmer wrote this program for students with LDs. 

[TheReader]

13 minutes ago, laundrycrisis said:

 

DS1 has similar issues.  I don’t know if it’s still available but Mastering Mathematics is what finally worked for him to learn the facts. You start with just what you can add with 0, 1 and 2.  You don’t move on until those are completely solid. Then you include 3, etc. only increasing the library of memorized facts in really small increments at a time. 

thank you! I'll look for it. 

[Kanin]

Oh... a controversial question ?

I’ve been reading a lot about “retrieval practice.” I signed up for an email list ages ago, and now I get research updates about it. Anywho, I am intrigued by the idea that just TRYING to retrieve a piece of information (e.g. math fact) helps you learn it, even if you’re unable to actually retrieve it at the moment. Repeated trying, in the correct way, aids memory. One article I read made the point that most people try to retrieve the wrong way - with flash cards, for example, people read the front of the card, and then flip it over without actually trying to retrieve the fact. Done this way, flash cards are useless. BUT, if you actually make yourself try to think of the fact - like read it aloud, think for a few seconds, and THEN flip - that actually helps you memorize. 

The other important thing to do, when doing flash cards this way, is to keep known facts in the pile for longer than you would think - they suggest getting a fact correct 3 times before removing it from the pile, and then periodically reviewing after that. You could make a pencil mark on the back of a card each time your son gets it right, and then move the “mastered” cards to a different pile that you review weekly.

To answer your actual question, I would try this retrieval method AND give him a chart/calculator. Practice facts for 5 minutes, twice a day, and then let him use his tools for actual schoolwork. 

(Retrieving for short periods multiple times a day is shown to work better than marathon sessions once a day.)

[Kanin]

This is the article that got me started on the rabbit hole of retrieval practice:  https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/retrieval-practice/

 

[TheReader]

48 minutes ago, Ravin said:

Honestly? If I had a do-over with my DD, I'd have stopped trying to drill math facts into her much sooner. Grasping concepts is more important than memorizing facts. Give him tools, whether it's a times table, abacus, calculator, etc. and let him get on with it.

We haven't drilled the facts, at all, yet. He's not memorizing them in the course of completing his normal math curriculum, and I do see where it slows him down, and he gets frustrated because he doesn't immediately know the answer. 

Now, so far, I've done what you suggest -- "that's a crazy-long problem, here, use the calculator..." (or whatever other tool is appropriate). And he's successful that way. I just worry that "one day" he'll take college entrance exams (maybe?) and do worse than his ability because he has none of the facts memorized. But maybe that's not valid....? We are a long, long way from that day, if/when it should ever arrive......

[TheReader]

42 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I like Reflex Math.  It does good repetition and review, it doesn’t have too many new things at once.  

Its worth a try.  I wouldn’t do it if it were hated.  

I think it’s worth keeping on doing a few minutes a few times a week.  

Off the top of my head for Reflex Math it’s 20 minutes 3 times a week for a minimum recommendation (for how it’s set up).  

But do what works for your child!!!!!!!  If it’s demoralizing then it’s not helpful.  

 

Hmm, I'll look at that one, too. Twenty minutes seems like kind of a lot but I'll give it a look and see what I think. Thank you! 

And yes, definitely will do what works for him ? No worries there! I just knew folks here would have at least ideas on what to try/where to start looking. 

[TheReader]

4 minutes ago, Mainer said:

Oh... a controversial question ?

I’ve been reading a lot about “retrieval practice.” I signed up for an email list ages ago, and now I get research updates about it. Anywho, I am intrigued by the idea that just TRYING to retrieve a piece of information (e.g. math fact) helps you learn it, even if you’re unable to actually retrieve it at the moment. Repeated trying, in the correct way, aids memory. One article I read made the point that most people try to retrieve the wrong way - with flash cards, for example, people read the front of the card, and then flip it over without actually trying to retrieve the fact. Done this way, flash cards are useless. BUT, if you actually make yourself try to think of the fact - like read it aloud, think for a few seconds, and THEN flip - that actually helps you memorize. 

The other important thing to do, when doing flash cards this way, is to keep known facts in the pile for longer than you would think - they suggest getting a fact correct 3 times before removing it from the pile, and then periodically reviewing after that. You could make a pencil mark on the back of a card each time your son gets it right, and then move the “mastered” cards to a different pile that you review weekly.

To answer your actual question, I would try this retrieval method AND give him a chart/calculator. Practice facts for 5 minutes, twice a day, and then let him use his tools for actual schoolwork. 

(Retrieving for short periods multiple times a day is shown to work better than marathon sessions once a day.)

Oh, now this sounds really good, actually. Thank you!

[Kanin]

2 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Oh, now this sounds really good, actually. Thank you!

Sure! Now that I think about it, the time doesn’t necessarily have to be 5 minutes... just however long it takes to get through the stack of flash cards once or twice, whatever your decide with him. I’m not sure how many cards is reasonable... maybe 10 to start?

p.s. I feel confident offering this method because there is a lot of research supporting it ? 

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, TheReader said:

We haven't drilled the facts, at all, yet. He's not memorizing them in the course of completing his normal math curriculum, and I do see where it slows him down, and he gets frustrated because he doesn't immediately know the answer. 

Now, so far, I've done what you suggest -- "that's a crazy-long problem, here, use the calculator..." (or whatever other tool is appropriate). And he's successful that way. I just worry that "one day" he'll take college entrance exams (maybe?) and do worse than his ability because he has none of the facts memorized. But maybe that's not valid....? We are a long, long way from that day, if/when it should ever arrive......

You need to drill the facts.  It doesn't need to be for hours at a time.  Five minutes or less, three or four times per day.  Short and sweet.  

This is not about college entrance exams.  It's about ensuring that his ability to think about math (part of thinking about math is knowing math facts) is in line with his cognitive ability.  You're seeing his cognitive ability shine through in his ability to "grasp the concepts on a pretty phenomenal level" as you mentioned in your first post.  You will be doing him a disservice if you don't ensure that he learns the facts as well as he can.

He may always be slower with retrieval.  He may need accommodations on standardized tests, including calculator accommodations.  He may even be totally unable to memorize the facts--but you don't know this yet.  Note that most kids, including many gifted kids with no LDs, will not just pick up the math facts--they need drill.  If your son has dyslexia, he is even more likely to need drill.  With my dyslexic son, we drilled the facts for years, and IMO, it was time well spent.

[laundrycrisis]

 

Our DS had problems with extremely low working memory and poor retrieval, and extremely low visual memory.  Completing the  visual processing part of VT was a huge help.  I also think that getting through the process of finally memorizing the facts and learning to use them has helped him improve some of these skills.

Also the Mastering Mathematics method of adding one digit at a time can be used with this free worksheet generator because you can choose the min and max digits to include.  You can also make the worksheets with just a few problems which is great for people who get visually overwhelmed by crowded pages. 

http://www.superkids.com/aweb/tools/math/

[Heathermomster]

For the basic add/sub math facts, he can practice them 5-10 minutes per day using the free MUS Math Facts generator.  Stress accuracy over speed.

My DS mastered the multiplication facts using the information in the book Overcoming Difficulties with Number by Ronit Bird.  Bird recommends working with manipulatives-> pictorial->abstract understanding.  Ronit Bird teaches a great subtraction method called mental bridging, and DS survived multivariable multiplication through Algebra 2 based upon Bird's area model method.  We modified her methods so that DS could solve and drew a lot of simple pictures.  I assume that you are using a large dry erase board for problem-solving.

DS also used a laminated multiplication chart and graph paper.  He continued to drill his math facts for a long time after they were mastered.  Repeated recall and practice strengthens the knowledge in long-term memory.  For mental math, we used a Singapore knockoff book to practice mental addition.  For checking fraction work, DS used a TI-15 calculator.

Lastly, I'm a huge fan of James Tanton's Thinking Mathematics! website.  DS used the Galley Method and learned to factor quadratics and derive the quadratic equation based upon Tanton's methodology.

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, laundrycrisis said:

DS1 has similar issues.  I don’t know if it’s still available but Mastering Mathematics is what finally worked for him to learn the facts. You start with just what you can add with 0, 1 and 2.  You don’t move on until those are completely solid. Then you include 3, etc. only increasing the library of memorized facts in really small increments at a time. You don’t subtract until all the addition is solid and then do subtraction as a rearrangement of the addition facts so they aren’t brand new facts.  For multiplication you start all over with a new library. Then division is a rearrangement of multiplication.  It took him months just to get the addition facts, but after so many years of facts being out of his reach, it was like a miracle. After learning the addition, the others came more easily.

That's essentially what we did, but with Ronit Bird.

[laundrycrisis]

Our DS1 had flown through Dreambox with all the pictures - he did it all by counting.  He got through the whole program easily without memorizing a single fact.  He was 110% on the concepts.  I tried letting him look facts up repeatedly from a placemat with all the facts on them - dice - also letting him get them from a calculator over and over, thinking that punching them in repeatedly to get the answer would help him memorize - I tried the books with a story for each fact - flash cards - songs - tapping each number of a fact with his fingers while saying them - writing the facts over and over - typing the facts over and over - name it, and I think we probably tried it.  The problem was that in his head, the facts were a tossed salad.  He has a semantic clustering issue that showed up in testing.  He was not organizing any of the facts into groups.  Combine that with poor retrieval, poor visual memory and low working memory and it became almost impossible.  Almost.  But taking a break from math and starting completely over, and building the library very very slowly, one new fact at a time, in a very ordered way, is what finally worked for him.  And now, to see him do math, you would never be able to guess it was so hard for him. 

[Lecka]

One of my kids could also only learn one fact family at a time.  

I’m really not super-gung-ho on Reflex Math, because it is similar to other programs and it’s also similar to flash cards, but it did adjust for one of my kids to learn one fact family at a time.  

It is set up to adjust to kids, and to keep track of which kids they answer correctly and incorrectly.

However — other programs do that too, and so can parents using flash cards.  

I just get sick of the attitude with flash cards and I have a hard time with staying on the same card or few cards for long enough.  I get really impatient.  It’s a lot easier for me to have a routine with Reflex Math.  (What I mean is, something inside of me takes it personally with flash cards and doesn’t take it personally in the slightest with a computer program, if there is some expression of disinterest.)  

But I’m agreeing with other posters. 

Drill sounds like it is needed and worthwhile.  

Supports in the meantime is worthwhile.  Other math time doesn’t have to be drudgery while math facts are still being cemented, especially when you have seen your child isn’t picking them up with this method.  

And there are a lot of ways to do practice with a small amount (as low as 1) of facts at a time, review, and slowly add in new facts.  This can be done with flash cards or with a computer program, and you can adjust as needed.