Harm in repeating 4th grade math?

[Calizzy]

1st through 3rd grade we used Miquon Math and really enjoyed it. This last year- 4th grade, dd went to public school. We are going back to homeschool in the fall and will be starting 5th grade. We planned to do 5th grade math mammoth but dd took the placement test and did not pass the 4th grade level. I’m not really sure what happened with her math this last year, she got an “a” in class, but when we go through the math mammoth material she definatly isn’t ready for it. She is young for her grade, will be turning 10 next month. She is a bright kid and does well with school. We started going through the 4th grade book at the beginning of summer trying to catch up for the fall, but I’m trying to decide if it’s worth it to speed through that book during the summer (and probably a bit of the beginnning of next year), or if we should just take a summer break and do 4th grade math over again next school year. I would prefer to just do it next year as we’re just tying to squeeze it in here and there and I don’t feel like we’re doing it justice. Also, I’m afraid she’ll burn out if we spend the next 2 years trying to catch her back up. I’m not sure what the math schedule looks like going forward, if she repeats 4th grade math will she be behind for high school math? What year would she then begin pre algebra?

[Kiara.I]

If 4th is where she places, do 4th.

And no, I wouldn't try to speed through it this summer. But I would continue to do math through the summer rather than allowing a2-month break which causes everything to slide backwards. If you keep doing math through the summer you can eliminate the month of review time that usually needs to be spent.

Just progress through, not trying to catch up, just being consistent.

It looks like math mammoth 7 is pre-algebra, so that would be in 8th.

[sweet2ndchance]

I wouldn't focus too much about where she is going to be in a few years. Just worry about where she is now. Right now, she needs to work on 4th grade skills. That doesn't mean it will take her a year to master 4th grade skills. You may find that some things she doesn't need as much work on and others she needs to spend more time on. She may be ready to move on to Math Mammoth 5 in a few months. She may be ready to move on to level 5 at Christmas or it may really take her all year to get there. Just teach the child in front of you. She will get to pre-algebra when she is ready to take and understand pre-algebra. Unless you think she will be competeing for math scholarships, she doesn't need to rush to algebra.

And about the public school, they may have been teaching different topics than Math Mammoth does in 4th or 5th grade. There is more than one path through elementary math that all end up at the same end point, readiness for pre-algebra. That's why I doubt it will take her a whole year to go through Math Mammoth 4. I'm sure there is some content in there she already knows, all she will need to do is focus on what the public school didn't cover.

[HomeAgain]

Do what you need to do.  There are times my kids have made leaps and bounds with math - once they internalized how something worked, they didn't need as much practice with variations of the same, and we skipped through those parts.  But there are times my kids have struggled.  We slowed down (and repeated a level with each one of them) and gave them more time.
The end result?  Even taking algebra twice, with two separate programs, and redoing 2nd grade math years before, my oldest graduated high school with having finished calculus.  And more than that, he was comfortable enough to ask for help in his college classes - knowing when he didn't understand something and needed more work with it did him a lot of good.

I wouldn't worry much here.  I'd let her do what she needs to do.  Take a brain break this summer and play games with math in them, but I think you'll be surprised at what you think will happen long term vs. what actually does.

[nixpix5]

I wouldn't worry. I would repeat 4th and not try to rush through it. I would probably continue to do some math through summer even if it is just 3 days per week leisurely. She will stay fresh and it will get you that much further ahead. We school year round and find that doing this actually accelerates my kids through math giving us plenty of buffer if we need go slow down, take a break or redo something during the year. It allows me to not feel rushed and to feel able to go at their pace. 

[Calizzy]

Thank you all for these responses! I knew this was the right thing to do, I just needed this encouragement ❤️

[Targhee]

Start where she placed, and don’t rush.

When we pulled oldest out to homeschool again she was behind in math (where previously she had been ahead). We started with 3rd grade Singapore PM and did it at her pace (no rushing, needed to make sure she understood, though parts we went through quickly because she did already understand. It took most of the year.  Then by the end of the next year we were through the end of 5th grade books, and she started preA with AoPS shortly thereafter and has been doing great (and loving math) ever since.

[happybeachbum]

23 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

I wouldn't focus too much about where she is going to be in a few years. Just worry about where she is now. Right now, she needs to work on 4th grade skills. That doesn't mean it will take her a year to master 4th grade skills. You may find that some things she doesn't need as much work on and others she needs to spend more time on. She may be ready to move on to Math Mammoth 5 in a few months. She may be ready to move on to level 5 at Christmas or it may really take her all year to get there. Just teach the child in front of you. She will get to pre-algebra when she is ready to take and understand pre-algebra. Unless you think she will be competeing for math scholarships, she doesn't need to rush to algebra.

And about the public school, they may have been teaching different topics than Math Mammoth does in 4th or 5th grade. There is more than one path through elementary math that all end up at the same end point, readiness for pre-algebra. That's why I doubt it will take her a whole year to go through Math Mammoth 4. I'm sure there is some content in there she already knows, all she will need to do is focus on what the public school didn't cover.

 

 

Yeah, you don't want to get too caught up in the outcome of those assessments.  They are based on a particular program.  Say you decide to switch curriculums and it says she's behind in that.  She might not be behind in math just what that particular program says is behind because of how it's set up.

[Ellie]

On 6/15/2018 at 12:34 PM, Calizzy said:

1st through 3rd grade we used Miquon Math and really enjoyed it. This last year- 4th grade, dd went to public school. We are going back to homeschool in the fall and will be starting 5th grade. We planned to do 5th grade math mammoth but dd took the placement test and did not pass the 4th grade level. I’m not really sure what happened with her math this last year, she got an “a” in class, but when we go through the math mammoth material she definatly isn’t ready for it. She is young for her grade, will be turning 10 next month. She is a bright kid and does well with school. We started going through the 4th grade book at the beginning of summer trying to catch up for the fall, but I’m trying to decide if it’s worth it to speed through that book during the summer (and probably a bit of the beginning of next year), or if we should just take a summer break and do 4th grade math over again next school year. I would prefer to just do it next year as we’re just tying to squeeze it in here and there and I don’t feel like we’re doing it justice. Also, I’m afraid she’ll burn out if we spend the next 2 years trying to catch her back up. I’m not sure what the math schedule looks like going forward, if she repeats 4th grade math will she be behind for high school math? What year would she then begin pre algebra?

What if you do Saxon instead? Have her take the placement test first, of course. She could place either in Math 54 or Math 65, and she wouldn't be repeating any grade level and she'd be on track to do as much math as she needs.

[Freya]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it.

My daughter has been running behind what is considered to be grade level in math -- 3 years behind, which sounded to me like a lot. It is what it is, I figured, and she'll finish it when she finishes it. The beauty of homeschool is that you can meet your kids where they are at, wherever that is, whether they are learning fast or slow. For some kids, if they are at the slow end, they will sometimes speed up the pace when their motivation kicks in. Sometimes they will just take longer. If your child was at grade level before going to public school, she doesn't seem to have any learning struggles and she'll probably be able to gradually catch up, bit by bit each year. 

You said you weren't sure what happened at school because she got an A in class. Well, I can't speak for all public schools, but can I tell you something about my experience with the public math system? My daughter has been behind grade level, right? She was working through a gr.3 homeschool program in gr. 6. Next fall, she wants to go to public school, so I got a hold of a gr. 7 public curriculum math book to see what she would be facing. Much to my surprise, some of the material covered in the gr. 7 math book we had done when she was in gr. 2 and 3. Half of the material in the book, I covered with her in about 2 hours. Let's just say the homeschool publishers have a different idea of what gr. 7 math looks like than the public school system. It might not be the same everywhere, but that's how it is in our case. I was shocked.

[happybeachbum]

Also, grades just don't mean much.   Not just public school.  Private schools/homeschools (in fact a few have mentioned this on threads) that when they added grading into the mix the kids didn't worry about learning just getting those grades.

One college professor told us that he no longer worried about grades.  If you could prove you knew and understood the material you were good.  Now if you just weren't trying at all then that's when he had a problem.  He came to this conclusion after years of straight-A kids not knowing anything.  These were the kids in the front of the class all eyes on him but didn't even know the material.  Yet the kids in the back were the ones who actually understood even if the tests didn't reflect it.

http://www.kamaliacademy.com/no-letter-grades-in-black-homeschooling/

https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/case-grades/

 

Remember that 4th grade is when math textbooks get heavier than 1-3rd.  There is nothing wrong with taking your time with a math textbook. Frankly, I wish there were no class grades on Textbooks especially those in the homeschool community 

[Sarah0000]

If there's a particular topic she's behind on you could look at the MM blue series to catch up then start the fifth grade curriculum. 

[Seeking Squirrels]

We had a similar situation last year. We homeschooled through 2nd, PS for 3rd, and when I gave her the year end assessment for 3b of Singapore she didn't pass it. So we backed up but only to 3b, not to 3a, she had all that down. She ended up doing 3b and 4a for 4th and she's about to start 4b. 

[gstharr]

The new 8th grader had a couple of periods where he had to redo or pause afterschool math. In the 1st grade he completed Redbird 2nd and 3rd grade in a year.  But, in the second grade doing the 4th grade class, he hit a roadblock.  He was doing excellent in the class, but the final was word problem heavy.  He just could not read and understand the test questions.  I had to sit with him and translate the questions, in a way that would not reveal the how to.  He completed pre-alg in 3rd grade, but seemed have lost all of it over summer break.  Had to redo pre-alg in 4th grade.  algebra 1 took 1  1/2 years to master.   In short, there will be period that young children need to mature more before moving on.