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Melissa in Australia

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forgot to add it is for DS14, we have done all the WWE levels, some Writing strands etc. very poor reader, profound dyslexia needs something that has lots of handholding and micro steps. very very low initiative to write anything writing is HARD for him.  I thought the rockets/robotics  unit might interest him.

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How much does it cost to ship to Australia?

I have mine for sale.  :)

 

Pam

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is the training necassary? 

 

I did some IEW with my older dd years ago.  I don't remember doing a SWI.  I think we only went by the TWSS together.

Then I just purchased again for my 10, 12, & 14 year old boys.  I got them the SWI B and the TWSS for me.  We were all watching our parts of the program.  I really don't know if you can do the SWI without the TWSS.  I didn't do it enough to find out.

I hope someone more experienced in it chimes in.  I know they're out there!  :)

 

Pam

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Yes you can do the program with just SWI or just TWSS but I honestly am not a fan of only doing a theme book without either SWI or TWSS because things can be confusing, especially if you are not used to teaching writing with this system.  On the flip side, I have heard others were able to make it work with just a theme book so hopefully someone who has done so can weigh in.

 

My question at this point is what have you used to work from the dyslexia end, do you have technology supports in place, how well does he do when you scribe for him, and how good are you at teaching writing?  IEW is a great program, especially for someone that needs mirco steps and a lot of handholding, but I needed TWSS/SWI combined instruction and support to help me teach my kiddos with dyslexia and I only attempted IEW after they had both been remediating with a reading/spelling/writing program specifically designed for dyslexics.  If you struggle with teaching him writing, he struggles with writing, and he struggles with reading, I do not know if just working from a theme book will help either of you.  Which stinks because it IS expensive to get these materials.

 

In your situation I think you would be better off either getting SWI and a theme book or TWSS and a theme book.

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I agree with One.  You can do the SWI or TWSS, but definitely don't do it with the theme books.  Heck, I have used the training and STILL don't always have success with the theme books.  I found one of them to be particularly disappointing.

 

That said, I highly recommend the training. 

Edited by SparklyUnicorn
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He does all his writing on the computer. He can do dictation fine as long as I only dictate 2 words at a time. If I scribe for him he has no words. His older brothers have Dyslexia and they were great with me scribing, not ds14. He doesn't even talk much.

 

 We have done intensive phonics for his whole live and still are. he knows all the  phonograms, just misuses them as is typical for Dyslexics.

 

 

I am having a dumb moment and cannot work out what TWSS or SWI mean

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If you want to try without the TWSS you might download some of the podcasts on the units you're working on. He gives a LOT of the same information over the podcasts, just in snippets. The podcast is called The Arts of Language Podcast. Another option would be to spring for the Premium membership from IEW that gives you access to the webinars. Those will give you a pretty decent summary as well and you can ask questions. Their customer service is terrific too if you ever need advice- they'll do everything they can to help. If you can, I'd get the appropriate SWI level and go from there, and try to do it without TWSS, but I wouldn't try to jump in on the theme books as pp's mention. 

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Student Writing Intensive

 

oops..though..the TWSS is the main program ....so I don't mean that....I mean the SWI...those are ready to go without the teaching stuff

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I'd say level B for your son, but maybe C. I'd call IEW if that's possible and let them know the situation and see what they recommend for placement. They're extremely nice. And they might have totally different recommendations as well. 

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Because we have struggled so much with writing over the years his motivation is nil. that is why I thought a theme book might be more interesting. We haven't done theme writing before I am not a fun  person and cannot come up with interesting or fun by myself.

 

The school year will start here in 2 weeks. I am tossing up continuing with Writing strands ( not really working) tying Writeshop ( $100 expensive to try something unseen that might not work) or try IEW ( I thought it would be an OK price but the training package is putting me off  for something that may not help at all either)

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He does all his writing on the computer. He can do dictation fine as long as I only dictate 2 words at a time. If I scribe for him he has no words. His older brothers have Dyslexia and they were great with me scribing, not ds14. He doesn't even talk much.

 

 We have done intensive phonics for his whole live and still are. he knows all the  phonograms, just misuses them as is typical for Dyslexics.

 

 

I am having a dumb moment and cannot work out what TWSS or SWI mean

Might he also have Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD)?  Has he ever had a speech evaluation?

 

I hope you can find something that works.  This can be such a frustrating process.  Add in the horrific costs for shipping to Australia and I can see why tracking down something that might work gets infinitely trickier.  :grouphug:

 

I know for my own kids DD did not do well with any phonics based instruction for neurotypical kids but started taking off with reading/writing/spelling once she had remediation with a program specifically targeted for dyslexics.  DS? He had other comorbid issues and needed other support systems to help him out.  Just straight phonics was not useful for application and phonics based instruction for even a dyslexic was not useful until he had had remediation in other areas first.

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Yes we have had speech evaluation. We are dealing with a severe problem.

 

 DD treed himself and it took an hour to get him down before he could be tested. He did the testing over 2 days  and came out as extremely low for everything

This was done 3 years ago and there has been some improvement ( namely he now understand what he reads he couldn’t comprehend written word at all when he did this assessment)

 

receptive coding 0.4 percentile

 

expressive coding 0.4 percentile

 

phonological coding 25 percentile

 

morphological decoding 0.4 percentile

 

verbal working memory 2nd percentile

 

pesudowords decoding 0.4 percentile

 

sentence structure 37th percentile

 

RAN 0.1 percentile

 

Summery severely impaired reading and writing skills

 Extremely poor orthographic coding

 Poor rapid automatic naming which is more sever with letters than numbers

 Phonological and language skills intact but low

 

I have posted these results before on the disability board a few years back, and we have incorporated a lot of technology based on recommendations from that discussion

 

Edited by Melissa in Australia

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Yes we have had speech evaluation. We are dealing with a severe problem.

 

....................................

 

I have posted these results before on the disability board a few years back, and we have incorporated a lot of technology based on recommendations from that discussion

I remembered you posting but not the specifics.  Sorry.  Lots of kids and lots of posts over the years.  I am sorry that this is such a hard process.

 

Honestly, with the reminder of what you are facing, I really recommend if you go with IEW that you get SWI or TWSS.  You could pair with a theme book but I think you are going to need the scaffolding of Pudewa's lectures.  SWI is for the student to watch and you to scaffold.  TWSS is the program for a parent to watch and teach from.  Some use both.  Some use just one or the other, sometimes paired with a theme book.  While some can use a theme book on its own, I just don't think it will work in your situation.  Huge hugs.  

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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Yes you could probably do it with just SWI and a theme book.  There are parts that the TWSS has that SWI does not but SWI would be easier to use.  It covers fewer components so you don't have to go at a fast pace, it provides several sources for writing passages that you could pair with the theme book assignments for additional practice, it will walk you through the pacing and the lessons and you can watch the DVD lessons together.  You will need to read through the materials and set up a notebook for both of you.  With what you are facing I would suggest you watch the videos yourself first then again together.  What worked well here was brainstorming together on the dry erase board and writing the first assignment of each lesson together.  

 

I will be honest, though, my kids are not facing the issues that your son is and writing has still been challenging for them.  I suggest you stretch out the pacing significantly and keep lessons short.  Maybe 4 days a week over the course of a year and a half.

 

What may work well with this system is that the student does not have to come up with their own words/writing out of whole cloth.  They are significantly scaffolded throughout the process.

 

I would also suggest (if it doesn't automatically come with what you order;sometimes they give them away and sometimes they don't) that you get this book if you can swing it.  The vocabulary words are organized into different themes and it helped so much with the kids finding appropriate vocabulary to add to their writing.  Frankly I think this thing is brilliant.

http://iew.com/shop/products/word-write-now

 

 

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I assume you have tried second hand locally? I got mine from sell and swap on this board but NZ post has a forwarding service whereas Australian Post doesn't as far as I know.

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thank you so much. You have convinced me.

 

I will print out your post for all the helpful advice

 

thank you

welcome

 

If you need help along the way, start a thread.  There are so many who have used this system successfully that I am sure there will be some great ideas on how to get through, over or around a hump in the road.

 

:grouphug:

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Late to the party but a few thoughts:

 

  • Student Writing Intensive (SWI) is for a specific age range, and is Andrew Pudewa teaching your student how to write. It is split into 3rd-5th, 6th-8th, 9th-12th. You take the SWI only once. After that, you move to a continuation course or do a theme based. 
  • Teaching Writing Structure and Style (TWSS) is a teacher's course for you, so that you can learn to teach the nine units of writing.  You can design your own writing curriculum using the principles from the TWSS.

 

IF you buy a SWI course and a theme based, you need to be careful that they are not too repetitive. For example we accidentally did All Things Fun & Fascinating (AFF) and SWI Level A.  It was *very* repetitive and my kids were frustrated that we were covering the same ground over again. I would chat with or email IEW to make sure this doesn't happen.  Also, be aware that those two products (a theme based plus a SWI) will equal two years of writing. One year for SWI and one year for the theme based, unless you accelerate it. 

 

If you cannot afford TWSS, you can do SWI, but be aware that the SWIs do *not* generally cover all of the writing units (who wants to write a formal critique in 3rd grade?), but the TWSS does.  So long term, IF you like IEW, the TWSS is the better choice in my opinion. It will carry you through high school.

 

Some options:  people sell TWSS pretty frequently. Check on FB boards, the IEW for sale board on their website, etc.  I see that you are in Australia. Maybe there is an Australia specific homeschool board.  Or, consider seeing if you can borrow it from a friend. Depending on what theme based you use, you might only need to watch three or four discs, and leave the rest for later. Treat it like an intensive, watch the videos, and return it to your friend.  

 

If all you can find is the old TWSS, watch the price but know it will be just fine. It won't be the same exactly as the newer videos but it will be what you need.  

Edited by cintinative
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Agreeing with cintinative that TWSS is the core program that teaches a teacher to teach at all age/grade levels of IEW's writing system.  It would probably be the most helpful long term if you decide to work with IEW through High School.

 

I will say, though, that SWI was such a help to me.  I do have TWSS and it has been great to have that backup but I used SWI more on a daily basis.  The kids watched the videos and all of us did the assignments.  

 

I wanted to say I don't think I explained myself very well with pairing SWI and a Theme book.  They are each a full year's worth of writing instruction.  Melissa, since you are dealing with some deeper issues than a parent with a neurotypical child is facing, I was thinking what might work best would be to read through both, use SWI videos and its writing examples as the intro to a writing concept, then use the theme book for additional practice on that one thing.  Then do the same for the next.  Spend time on each one since this is such a deficit area for your child.  I would not normally recommend that because as cintinative said they basically cover the same thing.  It might get repetitive and boring.  I think you could make it work, though, if your son is interested in the topic from the Theme book and he may very well need the slower pace and additional practice.  

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Agreeing with cintinative that TWSS is the core program that teaches a teacher to teach at all age/grade levels of IEW's writing system. It would probably be the most helpful long term if you decide to work with IEW through High School.

 

I will say, though, that SWI was such a help to me. I do have TWSS and it has been great to have that backup but I used SWI more on a daily basis. The kids watched the videos and all of us did the assignments.

 

I wanted to say I don't think I explained myself very well with pairing SWI and a Theme book. They are each a full year's worth of writing instruction. Melissa, since you are dealing with some deeper issues than a parent with a neurotypical child is facing, I was thinking what might work best would be to read through both, use SWI videos and its writing examples as the intro to a writing concept, then use the theme book for additional practice on that one thing. Then do the same for the next. Spend time on each one since this is such a deficit area for your child. I would not normally recommend that because as cintinative said they basically cover the same thing. It might get repetitive and boring. I think you could make it work, though, if your son is interested in the topic from the Theme book and he may very well need the slower pace and additional practice.

Thank you. That is what I was hoping we could do. We are going to need as much practice with everything as we can. Ds has become an extreme avoider of writing because it is just so hard for him.

 

 

He will be starting 9 th grade in one week. I have ordered SWI B and the theme book, plus the helper book thesaurus thingy mentioned. Thank you all so much

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We have just done a theme unit due to the expense of the whole package. I actually didn't realise when I ordered it that it was a follow on. We have paid to attend some of the live Webinars as well as listening to the podcast. These have helped heaps with figuring out how to do the units however it has been quite challenging and I think would be easier to start out right. However that would have made writing use most of my curriculum money for the year and we already have Singapore math which takes a fair chunk too! So yes it would be much easier with the correct stuff but it is doable with a bit of research time and effort without.

 

The approach has made a huge huge difference to my reluctant writer who is now writing full page essays. Definitely listen to as much of the podcasts etc possible as they are so helpful. Especially the one about boys and children who would rather build forts all day!

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So my books arrived,

I have almost completed watching all the DVD's..... I was getting excited....... then DS saw the big stack of folders.. and freaked out... He tells me adamantly that there is absolutely no way he is going to do that curriculum. Did I mention that he is extremely stubborn . School starts next Monday.

 

 

  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  I feel like I am beating my head against a wall  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

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So my books arrived,

I have almost completed watching all the DVD's..... I was getting excited....... then DS saw the big stack of folders.. and freaked out... He tells me adamantly that there is absolutely no way he is going to do that curriculum. Did I mention that he is extremely stubborn . School starts next Monday.

 

 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I feel like I am beating my head against a wall :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Oh, no! :(

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So my books arrived,

I have almost completed watching all the DVD's..... I was getting excited....... then DS saw the big stack of folders.. and freaked out... He tells me adamantly that there is absolutely no way he is going to do that curriculum. Did I mention that he is extremely stubborn . School starts next Monday.

 

 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I feel like I am beating my head against a wall :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Can I suggest something?

 

The techniques will work no matter what materials you use.

 

If you have time, watch the videos and learn the technique for unit 1. Grab another piece of writing you can use for unit 1 - I think from memory it's Key word outlines? Try to pick something he's interested him.

 

Teach him the technique or even just do it for him to demonstrate.

 

That way you are still getting the benefit of the Iew method but he doesn't need to know he's doing all those folders. You are just presenting him with a single piece of paper.

 

Also if you have time to listen to the podcast Andrew really emphasises going at the kids pace. Even if you totally do it for them a few times until they start to learn the technique.

 

One other thing that works for mine is bribery. He didn't mind the writing but hated doing the final draft. Anyway we set up a sticker chart for each final draft paragraph. I know that sounds little kiddy for older boys but because he was very invested in the reward I offered (a fishing outing) he not only did the work but did extra to get it faster. And it was worth my time taking him because it saved so much nagging time. If you didn't want to use stickers it could just be a tick chart for an older kid.

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folders  - the big binders.  not sure what the USA equivalent term is   https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/c/office-supplies/binders-binder-accessories/lever-arch-files-folders

 

some of it was ebooks that I had to print out and put into big folders. it made quite a stack.

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Agreeing with AusMumof3. Hide the binders. Be sneaky. :)

 

Did what you bought come with a year of the premium membership? If so you can use that site and create your own checklists for him with the elements as you go through (what you think he’s ready to include). I know you probably don’t have mi h spare time, but if you can find any, maybe search the podcasts. Every 10th episode they have an Ask Andrew Anything with lots of good questions sent in by parents/teachers that may give you some other ideas. You definitely are not the only person with a resistant kid looking for suggestions. He is of the mind that you cannot help a kid too much. I think that is one of the things that resonates with me the most about AP and the program.

Edited by texasmom33
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Oh ok. Three ring binders. Sorry. Mismatch in vocabulary.

 

I actually just had the reference sheets in a small notebook and presented the stories one at a time. No huge binders were visible. I had a copy of the one page story in front of each of us but we worked on the one story together using an upright rolling dry erase board and did everything collaboratively. Slowly over time they started doing more things independently but we still just had the one story to work off of with just the reference papers. I did keep three ring binders of all their writings and the system material but the kids didn't see them until we were more comfortable with the system.

 

I'm sorry he got so stressed. There was some really good advice upthread. I hope it helps you to help him.

 

Hugs

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I have watched TWSS and plan to watch SWI A but so far I have just started key word outlines using the free copy of Writing Through Ancient History I got last year. We are on break now but we were doing a couple of paragraphs a day. He would choose the key words and I would write them down then he would retell using the KWO and I would write that down. When we have got that down pat we will move on.

 

Eta. Just tell him the all that suff is your work not his. It has the advantage of being mostly true.

Edited by kiwik
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I have watched TWSS and plan to watch SWI A but so far I have just started key word outlines using the free copy of Writing Through Ancient History I got last year. We are on break now but we were doing a couple of paragraphs a day. He would choose the key words and I would write them down then he would retell using the KWO and I would write that down. When we have got that down pat we will move on.

 

Eta. Just tell him the all that suff is your work not his. It has the advantage of being mostly true.

thank you for this advice. :thumbup1:

 

sounds like a great idea and might help him get over his fear of trying a new program

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To add to kiwik, When I transitioned Dd to IEW I did all of the assignments from the TWSS for the parents/teachers in advance and dd saw me do them over that summer before she started. I think that built in some buy in on her part. Don’t know if that would help engage your ds, but thought I’d throw it out there.

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today was the first day of school  ( high schools in my state start the school year today)

 

I am so frustrated in my lack of ability to help my child that I wept. He seems so depressed. He tells me there is absolutely no point in him doing any writing program........................ that nothing can help him...........................: :crying:  :crying:

 

I sat a whiteboard up in front of him while he was at the kitchen table fixing a remote control car and said all he has to do is just look  for 3 minutes.  then  I did the Key Word Outline.

 

It was my idea for him to fix the car. He focuses better if he is doing something with his hands.

 

 

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Oh I forgot to add we tried the first lesson about Sea Wasps but he was so frustrated that the correct name of Box Jellyfish wasn't being used that we went on to the Plug in Satellites form the other book

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today was the first day of school  ( high schools in my state start the school year today)

 

I am so frustrated in my lack of ability to help my child that I wept. He seems so depressed. He tells me there is absolutely no point in him doing any writing program........................ that nothing can help him...........................: :crying:  :crying:

 

I sat a whiteboard up in front of him while he was at the kitchen table fixing a remote control car and said all he has to do is just look  for 3 minutes.  then  I did the Key Word Outline.

 

It was my idea for him to fix the car. He focuses better if he is doing something with his hands.

 

Oh gosh Melissa. I'm so sorry.  :grouphug:  Please don't be frustrated with yourself though.

 

You do SO MUCH for your kids. You are an amazing Mom. 

 

What is he interested in? Cars? Can you find a simple magazine article on cars and then whiteboard the key word outline for the article for him. And then repeat with other material he's interested in and not annoyed with until he's willing to try doing the KWO? Would he go for that? 

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Hmmm. That's tough. And I know you have so much else on your plate right now too. 

 

What are the legal requirements where you are for what you have to do for school at the moment? Does he have to produce work right away, or is there any way to take a break and get him doing some manual work/exercise and focus on that for a few weeks or months to shift his gears. If your sig is up to date he's in the throws of hormones right now. Is there anyway to get him physically occupied and help those brain chemicals and what not find a happier place before diving into school? Or do you think the schedule and routine of school would help? 

 

Don't feel hopeless though. Between all of us here we'll help you sort through it. Just know you aren't alone. 

 

:grouphug:

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Legal requirements are very very lax in my state. just have to justify that you are covering the 8 key learning areas

 

He needs the schedule.  I think He is depressed, he needs things that he has to do. He just feels so completely inadequate and stupid that he doesn't want to even attempt things anymore. We just had 6 weeks summer break. We already have a very relaxed day for him.. We are running out of years....... 

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From your view, what is he good at? It doesn't need to be with school. You mentioned fixing a remote control car. Does he like tinkering/repair that sort of thing? Just in general- if you have a ten second time to answer- what sort of stuff is he good at? What did he used to be happy doing before he got depressed? He needs something to do that he's good at. That makes him feel competent. 

 

Where is he in the rest of his subjects? Is this everything, or just writing is the big culprit at the moment? 

 

I also know y'all have had a rocky year and there is the pending legal stuff. I don't know if it would be a thing for therapy, either individual or family, and/or meds for him. That's not my area of expertise- maybe there is someone you could speak to to see if that is appropriate?  But basically I'm going to throw ideas at you outside of that, as that's not really a place where I'm comfortable sticking my nose in besides saying (((HUGS))). I'm not ignoring it, but I have zero experience or credentials in that area. 

Edited by texasmom33

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He is good at any practical thing he puts his mind to. He , like all my children can fix just about anything under the sun effortlessly. to him it is normal, he doesn't see it as something others cannot do, that it is something special. even though I have pointed out this to him. 

 

 

 

his favorite subject was Science. He loved science especially when we worked through all of the Readers Digest How the series over several years. BUt then they were all done. We are now doing Apologia BIology _ He insisted on doing this book as his older siblings did it. His love of science is completely destroyed now. It is all just words words words ( that have to read aloud to him as his reading is not up to it) and not any experiments......I don't know any other curriculum for higher grades science. So I did what I have always done and fallen back to recommendations in WTM. I have bought him every science kit that I come across that I think he might be interested in. but he finds them silly and childish. I got him a Raspberry Pi - but I don't know what to do with it. We have been working through the tutorials that came with it but so far it isn't very fascinating to either of us - seems at the moment to be just like one of the silly science kits...............

 

 

Editid to add

 good suggestion I will post on highschool thread suggestions for a different science curriculum

Edited by Melissa in Australia

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