Worried about my ds's emotional/mental health

[Scarlett]

I think it is possible that *I* am the one with issues and over thinking this...so please jump in and give your opinions.

 

It is hard to think of the things that alarm me....but I will give a snapshot of our day so far. He was up about 8:30 after sleeping at least 10 hours. He has dark circles under his eyes---this is something dh and I have noticed for a couple of months. Along with complaining of chest pain, and headaches and stomach aches.

 

I have him start some math fact practice on line and he suddenly feels 'soooooo tired.' He finishes the drill, but I look over to find him leaned back in his chair with his eyes closed. When I begin to discuss the 'next thing' he just acts as if he is about to fall over from the sheer exhaustion of it all.

 

So I calmly say, 'well, we aren't even dressed yet, let's go do that and then come back.' So we head to the back of the house and I ask him if he remembers the 3 things he is supposed to do. Yes, he says--brush my teeth, make my bed and get dressed. Yes, I answer, and don't forget to wash your face. As I walk on to my room I hear murmuring and I look back and see a very anger face and I said, 'what?' He angrily says, 'I can't ever remember it all!' Or something like that. I went back and soothed him and told him he was fine...that I just saw some food on his face and it made me think he needed to wash his face. He calmed down ok from that.

 

Then we come in to do school. I sit down with him and we do math...3 word problems...a VERY very light math lesson. Then I tell him it is time for Lit...he all of a sudden has that overwhelming exhaustion....I get him up and we walk out to get the paper...and then we come back in and still just can't get any gumption about him...I sort of feel like it is just "I don't want to do school", but he just acts so sad. So I say, 'what is wrong, son?' He says, with head very low, 'I don't know. I am just depressed. I just don't know why, but I just feel sooooo tired.' So I tell him to lie down on the sofa and go to sleep. He lies there for about 10 minutes quiet and still....and then he jumps up like a different kid and starts excitedly looking through Food magazines and reading recipes to me that sound good...then runs off to get his Gross Goodies book and reads through it deciding on the next recipe he wants to try. So I happily discuss all of that with him...for a few minutes, but we have to do school. He deals with it fairly well. But at some point he suddenly tells me his stomach is hurting. And then his head.

 

Now the neighbor kid is here for lunch and they are laughing and giggling and just having a blast and you would never believe this is the same kid that acted as if his dog died an hour or so ago.

 

He also at times can just obsess over things until he has himself really worked up. For instance, he will recall conversations or incidents with his friend where he feels the friend lied or cheated or bragged or did some other un nice thing. Or he might see a chicken truck on the way to slaughter and just get totally sad over that. In fact, that was one thing he was telling me this morning...that he couldn't stop thinking about the chickens he saw yesterday.

 

He also says things like, 'Mom I don't know how I ever get anything done because I just have so many things in my head to think about.'

 

With the school work we have one of two extremes...it is so easy that he is just bored out of his mind....but if I give him something the LEAST bit challenging to him he totally freaks out. He learned how to multiply 2 numbers by 2 numbers this week...he got the concept but missed a bunch of problems when he failed to do the algorithm correctly....When he realized he had missed several (maybe 5 out of 18) he just got so upset...saying things like 'I'm so stupid! I will never figure this out!' Ok, just to show you how untrue THAT is, within 10 minutes he was excitedly asking me to give him 4X4 number problems and solving them accurately.

 

He says weird things like, 'Mom, I have anger issues.' :confused: When I ask him what he means he tells me how 'angry' he gets at his friend and just wants to punch him when he tells lies or something. He is very verbal and I figure he just picked that up from a tv show or something.

 

And the rituals during activies that induce stress in him. Timed drill...before he puts in each answer he slaps the side of his head. He also has sleep time rituals that don't worry me as much....he has to have certain animals in the bed along with his hand held flash light...that sort of thing. He never wants to go to sleep alone...tells me he is afraid to go to sleep for fear of the nightmares that he 'might' have.

 

Also the repeating....I've mentioned this before....he repeats the last few words of HIS sentence in a whisper.

 

Yesterday in piano I could hear him in the room acting very upset....I think that he couldn't understand what she was saying...I could hear her say,'you are doing fine. Don't worry...you are doing a good job.' He came out and he was so irritaed and had tears in his eyes...and I very gently said, 'what is the matter son?' And the tears spilled over and he said, 'I don't know!' He never really did tell me why he was upset...this morning when I had him practice piano he was again very irritable and said Ms. Piano Teacher just makes him do it 'over and over and over' and he is full of gestures and angry facial expressions when he says this.

 

Ok, I've typed up all the things that have been running through my head. It is only fair to add that he is a very enthusiastic child...very happy most of the time and usually agreeable....which makes this moodiness and saddness so much more disturbing to me.

 

Are these things nothing to really worry about? Are they just character issues that need proper parenting skills...and if so what am I doing wrong? I know some of what I am doing wrong...I induce anxiety in him by being difficult to please and not praising enough...at times.

 

This is long and I'm sorry. Help me if you can. :)

[Nicole M]

Have you had him tested for food allergies or sensitivities?

[Scarlett]

Have you had him tested for food allergies or sensitivities?

 

No. He is going for his check up tomorrow....and I want to get all of this straight in my head before discussing it with the doctor. I do have some concerns that too much sugar and screen time might be contributing to these issues...especially the ones of depression.

 

Any thoughts on that anyone?

[Plucky]

No. He is going for his check up tomorrow....and I want to get all of this straight in my head before discussing it with the doctor. I do have some concerns that too much sugar and screen time might be contributing to these issues...especially the ones of depression.

 

Any thoughts on that anyone?

 

You've posted about him before. I thought last time he might have the signs of high-anxiety. My ds has high-anxiety, and is prone to depression as well as other issues. Talk to your doctor and he/she might suggest you have your ds see someone. They have questionaires that help pinpoint the problem and an expert may be able to see more. I know a lot of moms can see exactly what the problem is, but for me seeing a pediatric psychologist really helped me peel back the many layers and find my son some relief.

 

Your ds might just be an intense little guy. :grouphug:

[Scarlett]

You've posted about him before. I thought last time he might have the signs of high-anxiety. My ds has high-anxiety, and is prone to depression as well as other issues. Talk to your doctor and he/she might suggest you have your ds see someone. They have questionaires that help pinpoint the problem and an expert may be able to see more. I know a lot of moms can see exactly what the problem is, but for me seeing a pediatric psychologist really helped me peel back the many layers and find my son some relief.

 

Your ds might just be an intense little guy. :grouphug:

 

 

Elaine,

Yes, I did post about this same thing back in May. I just looked it up...because he hasn't expressed feelings of depression since those 2 times in May until today. You sent me a PM back then about your own ds---unfortunaltey I've deleted it.

 

So when I talk to the doctor tomorrow, how do I get my point across without rambling on for 20 minutes like I did in my post here? I'm trying to organize my various concerns about him.

[Christy B]

Scarlett, I'm so sorry, I know this must be very stressful for you.

 

I have a child who tends to be very "intense" emotionally so I can relate to some of what goes along with that sort of personality. I want to very carefully say, though, that what you're describing seems, to me, to go beyond what would be considered "within normal limits". I'm very thankful that you're taking it seriously and seeing a doctor.

 

I did want to give you some information that may help as far as the repetition of his last phrase, which to me sounds like classic Palilalia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palilalia You can start with that website and if you think it fits, then there is plenty more information available.

 

Palilalia is a big "red flag" for some spectrum disorders (I have friends with autistic children, had an autistic child in my preschool class with classic echolalia, and three years of speech therapy for my daughter, all of which have given me a bit of education on all sorts of communication disorders). I would urge you to insist that the doctors look into this. It could be just a habit, or it could be something more. Let me say very clearly that I am NOT suggesting that your child is autistic. I am not qualified, nor is a chat forum the place, to make such a suggestion. I'm simply saying that what you're describing is a warning flag for folks who work in that field.

 

The head slapping is a red flag to me, as well.

 

Best wishes, Scarlett, for you and your boy.

[Plucky]

Elaine,

Yes, I did post about this same thing back in May. I just looked it up...because he hasn't expressed feelings of depression since those 2 times in May until today. You sent me a PM back then about your own ds---unfortunaltey I've deleted it.

 

So when I talk to the doctor tomorrow, how do I get my point across without rambling on for 20 minutes like I did in my post here? I'm trying to organize my various concerns about him.

 

If he hasn't expressed those feelings since May I'm not sure I'd worry about it yet. It's normal for kids to have a lot of different feelings or even sometimes to push their mom's buttons. It's so hard to know. Your dr. probably won't be alerted either since it's not a pattern that is continuous. Talk to your dr. and see what he/she says.

[Wendi]

Well, I'd recommend a naturopath for sure. He/she can help with possible food sensitivities, as well as checking neurotransmitter levels and recommending supplements to help. My ds's anxiety was tremendously helped with supplements.

 

Some of the behavior you're describing definitely doesn't sound "normal" (depression and crying, getting angry for no real reason, hitting himself in the head, anxious unwanted thoughts).

 

Wendi

[Scarlett]

Scarlett, I'm so sorry, I know this must be very stressful for you.

 

I have a child who tends to be very "intense" emotionally so I can relate to some of what goes along with that sort of personality. I want to very carefully say, though, that what you're describing seems, to me, to go beyond what would be considered "within normal limits". I'm very thankful that you're taking it seriously and seeing a doctor.

 

I did want to give you some information that may help as far as the repetition of his last phrase, which to me sounds like classic Palilalia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palilalia You can start with that website and if you think it fits, then there is plenty more information available.

 

Palilalia is a big "red flag" for some spectrum disorders The head slapping is a red flag to me, as well.

 

 

 

Yes I know the Palilalia and the head slapping are red flags. Yet when I read up on the syndroms associated with them nothing really fits. He isn't delayed in anything...not language, fine or gross motor skills...he is probably the most social kid I know and is extrembly empathetic. He can read my face better than my dh can and he is very sensitive to my reactions and moods (and I am moody and demanding at times). My dh's family tells that dh was a head banger...would bang his head on the back of the seat of the car all the way from LA to Arkansas when he was a kid. So that slapping his head makes me think of that.

[Scarlett]

If he hasn't expressed those feelings since May I'm not sure I'd worry about it yet. It's normal for kids to have a lot of different feelings or even sometimes to push their mom's buttons. It's so hard to know. Your dr. probably won't be alerted either since it's not a pattern that is continuous. Talk to your dr. and see what he/she says.

 

How does this look as notes to discuss with his doctor tomorrow? I want to avoid going on and on...:)

 

Complains of chest pains/headaches and stomachaches frequently.

 

Depression---3 times in the last 6 months or so…. has expressed deep sadness for reasons he can’t explain.

 

Obsessions---gets very upset when he has any challenge in schoolwork. Replays upsetting conversations and incidents in his head and can’t quit talking about them.

 

Repeating.

 

Smacking his head before answering each math question in timed drill.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Scarlet.....

 

My FIRST guess is that he's found a way to get some attention, delay schoolwork, etc. He also is likely imitating some of this behavior. These are the most probable and easiest to address issues.

 

However, I think it wise to mention it to the doctor, maybe keep a diary, and possibly consult a specialist.

 

I will tell you that my ds displayed very troubling issues as a young child. He got several dxes because of it, tried medication, etc. I eventually didn't DENY something else was going on (he likely DOES have those dxes) but insisted on "behaving oneself better." It's not 100% but it definitely HELPS.

 

It could be that you're feeding into it by encouraging some of it. "What's wrong honey?" seems so natural but can often make a person feel worse and do worse. Also, people often feel and do a lot better when they are expected to, such as in regards to schoolwork. Instead of a break or coddling him, he can push through and feel good about having accomplished it despite being tired or sad or frustrated. He'll gain more, imo, from "way to get that done" after the fact than "I know you're frustrated, maybe we should take a break before you try."

 

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well. Basically, I decided to stop treating my son as "ill" and he was able to feel and do better. Of course, I still had to deal with his issues as they appeared (though we did stop medication at 8).

 

So I'm NOT suggesting you ignore the possibility of a real issue. Please address that appropriately. I'm just suggesting that you may be able to help him feel and do better by setting the bar a bit higher and being careful not to coddle too much. And if it IS a discipline issue instead, you're handling that also.

 

I wish I could state this a little better....

[Nicole M]

Well, I'd recommend a naturopath for sure. He/she can help with possible food sensitivities, as well as checking neurotransmitter levels and recommending supplements to help. My ds's anxiety was tremendously helped with supplements.

 

Some of the behavior you're describing definitely doesn't sound "normal" (depression and crying, getting angry for no real reason, hitting himself in the head, anxious unwanted thoughts).

 

Wendi

 

This is what I would recommend as well, now that I've thought about it more.

 

The fatigue and the circles under the eyes are a red flag for food sensitivities. When we removed wheat, eggs and soy (and by default, all sugar) from my oldest's diet, not only did his physical health radically improve, almost overnight, but also the intensity and the high drama decreased to the point where I was no longer alarmed.

 

Also, the sleep thing. I know I'm a broken record about this, but in my experience, little guys need the same hours of sleep every night, starting much earlier than we think. We tend to think, oh, he's getting ten hours so everything should be hunky-dory. But again, in my experience, the ten hours need to begin at 8pm, not 10pm. And again, radical difference in attitude / fatigue / drama.

 

So I would rule out the simple things first, the diet issues and possible sleep issues, before I would panic about other possible problems. I would give it six weeks of total cold turkey on sugar, screen time and early bedtime and see what happens -- as well as pursuing allergy testing from a naturopath.

[Scarlett]

Well, I'd recommend a naturopath for sure. He/she can help with possible food sensitivities, as well as checking neurotransmitter levels and recommending supplements to help. My ds's anxiety was tremendously helped with supplements.

 

Some of the behavior you're describing definitely doesn't sound "normal" (depression and crying, getting angry for no real reason, hitting himself in the head, anxious unwanted thoughts).

 

Wendi

 

How does one find a Naturopath? Hmmmm...off to check my phone book.

 

How do they check neurotransmitter levels?

[Journey]

He might have learning disabilities and his "tiredness" is a way of avoiding what he knows he doesn't understand when it comes to school. My daughter has LD's and she will do just about anything to avoid learning. Not because she doesn't want to learn but because it's so hard for her. He might not even know how to express that to you. He also might have ADD which is why he forgets the things on the list that he has to do. My same daughter also has ADHD and I have to tell her in very short lists what she needs to do or get done. Your son might have auditory processing issues. There is so much that might be going on. Please let us know what the doctor has to say and remember, even if you ramble on for 20 minutes in his office, who cares, you are your son's advocate and no one is going to do more for him than you are.

[Nicole M]

 

Complains of chest pains/headaches and stomachaches frequently.

 

Depression---3 times in the last 6 months or so…. has expressed deep sadness for reasons he can’t explain.

 

Obsessions---gets very upset when he has any challenge in schoolwork. Replays upsetting conversations and incidents in his head and can’t quit talking about them.

 

Repeating.

 

Smacking his head before answering each math question in timed drill.

 

Again, a natural predisposition toward high drama could be exacerbated by exposure to certain foods over a prolonged period of time causing exactly these problems.....

[Scarlett]

Scarlet....

 

It could be that you're feeding into it by encouraging some of it. "What's wrong honey?" seems so natural but can often make a person feel worse and do worse. Also, people often feel and do a lot better when they are expected to, such as in regards to schoolwork. Instead of a break or coddling him, he can push through and feel good about having accomplished it despite being tired or sad or frustrated. He'll gain more, imo, from "way to get that done" after the fact than "I know you're frustrated, maybe we should take a break before you try."

 

 

This would make perfect sense IF not for the fact that my very gentle treatment of him today is not typical of me. I'm much more likely to push him to get it done and to get irritated and angry at him when he doesn't do things as quickly as I expect or with the attitude I expect.

 

I don't want a diagnosis. I don't want him having the excuse and/or the label and I don't want him on meds. I generally agree with handling kids the way you are currently handling your son....recognize issues but also recognize we all have issues and we just need to learn to deal with them. The repeating, the quirkiness of slapping his head, or holding his breath through each math problem...those I can deal with. But this sadness just freaks me totally out. However, Elaine is saying and I agree that he hasn't expressed it long enough or often enough for it to be a pattern of real concern.

 

I am going to mention it to the doc tomorrow.

[Scarlett]

This is what I would recommend as well, now that I've thought about it more.

 

The fatigue and the circles under the eyes are a red flag for food sensitivities. When we removed wheat, eggs and soy (and by default, all sugar) from my oldest's diet, not only did his physical health radically improve, almost overnight, but also the intensity and the high drama decreased to the point where I was no longer alarmed.

 

Also, the sleep thing. I know I'm a broken record about this, but in my experience, little guys need the same hours of sleep every night, starting much earlier than we think. We tend to think, oh, he's getting ten hours so everything should be hunky-dory. But again, in my experience, the ten hours need to begin at 8pm, not 10pm. And again, radical difference in attitude / fatigue / drama.

 

So I would rule out the simple things first, the diet issues and possible sleep issues, before I would panic about other possible problems. I would give it six weeks of total cold turkey on sugar, screen time and early bedtime and see what happens -- as well as pursuing allergy testing from a naturopath.

 

This definitely sounds like something I am going to try regardless of what the doc says or not tomorrow. (it is just an annual physical, I'm not going for any specific thing.) HOW though do you implement the 8:00 bedtime? 2 nights a week it is impossible (Bible study) and then that blows his schedule for the rest of the week...Plus his dad works late a lot and if he doesn't get in until 6:00 or 7:00 it is hard to insist on an 8:00 bedtime for ds...I'm not trying to shoot down your suggestions because I think it is a good one...Im just wondering how you mange that?

 

My ds is 8....I dont know if I said that in my OP.

[Christy B]

But this sadness just freaks me totally out. However, Elaine is saying and I agree that he hasn't expressed it long enough or often enough for it to be a pattern of real concern.

 

I am going to mention it to the doc tomorrow.

 

I am NOT disagreeing or arguing with any of the advice or comments from others, but I do want to add that just because he isn't expressing it frequently, doesn't mean it isn't an issue. And I say this not as a parent or an expert, but as someone who suffered from severe depression as a child and teenager. I expressed it maybe five times in the course of fifteen years, but it was there always.

 

I think your list of notes for the doctor was very good; concise, to the point. Just be sure not to minimize what you're observing; as someone pointed out, you are your child's best advocate.

[Nicole M]

This definitely sounds like something I am going to try regardless of what the doc says or not tomorrow. (it is just an annual physical, I'm not going for any specific thing.) HOW though do you implement the 8:00 bedtime? 2 nights a week it is impossible (Bible study) and then that blows his schedule for the rest of the week...Plus his dad works late a lot and if he doesn't get in until 6:00 or 7:00 it is hard to insist on an 8:00 bedtime for ds...I'm not trying to shoot down your suggestions because I think it is a good one...Im just wondering how you mange that?

 

My ds is 8....I dont know if I said that in my OP.

 

Well, as I mentioned in another post, it seriously cramped our style, this early bed thing. Now that my son is 12, we shoot for jammies on, teeth brushed and in the bedroom by 8:30, then lights out by 9pm. It's really tough. Do you read to him at night? Do you have dinner ready so that you can eat the minute your spouse gets home, then have quiet time immediately after? I don't know. Maybe simply notching back as much as you can would help. I'm just sayin', in my experience, my boy did not "recover" from a late night by sleeping in, and even though we had to make huge sacrifices, the results of the consistent early bedtime had a mighty, mighty fine payback.

[Nicole M]

This would make perfect sense IF not for the fact that my very gentle treatment of him today is not typical of me. I'm much more likely to push him to get it done and to get irritated and angry at him when he doesn't do things as quickly as I expect or with the attitude I expect.

 

I don't want a diagnosis. I don't want him having the excuse and/or the label and I don't want him on meds. I generally agree with handling kids the way you are currently handling your son....recognize issues but also recognize we all have issues and we just need to learn to deal with them. The repeating, the quirkiness of slapping his head, or holding his breath through each math problem...those I can deal with. But this sadness just freaks me totally out. However, Elaine is saying and I agree that he hasn't expressed it long enough or often enough for it to be a pattern of real concern.

 

I am going to mention it to the doc tomorrow.

 

Well, shoot, Scarlet! If I were the only kid in the house, and my mom was getting upset about my work and I was tired, I'd have some anger and sadness issues, too! How do you react when he says he's sad? Or angry? My counselor told me that whining, for instance, is anger through a small hole. And I would bet that sadness can be, too. When my high drama dude would tell me how sad he was, I would say, yes, that's very sad. We can be sad a minute, then we need to put our sadness away so get back to our work. Probably scarred him. But I wanted to acknowledge the sadness without letting it take control of him. Emotions are big, and little people need to know that the adults in their lives won't allow them to be sucked in by their big emotions. And nothing ticks off a kid more than an adult who tries to pretend that emotions aren't big. (Not that you are.)

 

As a poster child for therapy myself, I would highly recommend it to anyone, but especially for someone who has a high maintenance child, as it seems like you do. And I say that gently.

[Wendi]

I actually found a naturopath just by checking the phone book, but in other parts of the country, they might be harder to find (we live out west). You might try asking around; maybe someone you know can recommend someone.

 

They actually check neurotransmitter levels with a urine test.

 

I hope you can figure things out. It sounds like your ds (like mine) has something going on, possibly more than one thing. Anxiety (maybe OCD?), or the head slapping could be sensory-related, maybe depression (although could feel sad and tired because of anxiety)...who knows? I hope you can get some answers. And don't freak out! You guys will figure out what you can do for him. It'll be okay.

 

Wendi

[daisychics]

Well, shoot, Scarlet! If I were the only kid in the house, and my mom was getting upset about my work and I was tired, I'd have some anger and sadness issues, too! How do you react when he says he's sad? Or angry? My counselor told me that whining, for instance, is anger through a small hole. And I would bet that sadness can be, too. When my high drama dude would tell me how sad he was, I would say, yes, that's very sad. We can be sad a minute, then we need to put our sadness away so get back to our work. Probably scarred him. But I wanted to acknowledge the sadness without letting it take control of him. Emotions are big, and little people need to know that the adults in their lives won't allow them to be sucked in by their big emotions. And nothing ticks off a kid more than an adult who tries to pretend that emotions aren't big. (Not that you are.)

 

As a poster child for therapy myself, I would highly recommend it to anyone, but especially for someone who has a high maintenance child, as it seems like you do. And I say that gently.

 

Not the OP but....I think I might have a high maintenance kid (not sure) but I read your post about 4x's and I still don't get what your suggestion was. :001_huh: Sorry. Can you explain a bit more? Thanks :D.

[cillakat]

Well, I'd recommend a naturopath for sure. He/she can help with possible food sensitivities, as well as checking neurotransmitter levels and recommending supplements to help. My ds's anxiety was tremendously helped with supplements.

 

Some of the behavior you're describing definitely doesn't sound "normal" (depression and crying, getting angry for no real reason, hitting himself in the head, anxious unwanted thoughts).

 

Wendi

 

2nd Wendi's suggestion to look into supplements. My experience here in Atlanta with naturopaths was not good. I couldn't find one who knew enough to be helpful. None of them knew more than I did about alternative therapies and I'd exhausted my knowledge bank. I found an orthomolecular doctor who was very helpful and ordered testing from metametrix which was VERY helpful....clarifying and offering concrete evidence of things I'd figured out from reading: we have a genetic glitch in our conversion of b6 to the p5p form...the form used by the body to convert tryptophan to seratonin and tyrosine to dopamine. we have pyroluria....a glitch in hemoglobin synthesis or breakdown (can't recall which). b/c of it, we need significantly higher doses of b6 and zinc v. the typical population. we need significantly more fish oil. more vitamin e.

 

Nearly everyone is deficient in vitamin d. We are just beginning understand the role vitamin d plays in mental health. It's significant. There's an easy blood test: 25(OH)D. 'twentyfive hydroxy vitamin d' is how it's pronounced.

 

Start with a great multi like Rainbow Light Men's Just Once (he's 12 right....if younger a different one might be more appropriate).....some fish oil like Natural Factors Rx Omega (best value per g DHA/EPA). I buy most supps at iherb.com

 

Optimize outside time....healthy diet....fruits, nonstarchy veggies at every meal, some raw or lightly roasted nuts (no oil added), then add in potato/sweet potato/winter squash/carbs grains......and sufficient animal protein to meet your family/individual needs.

 

At this age, zinc and magnesium needs are significantly increased and typically those needs are not met. magnesium will have a noticeable effect on anxiety for some.....and zinc on ocd'ish behaviors (magnesium too actually). Inositol is incredibly calming for me and my dd.....it's a sweet powder, very easy to take directly on the tongue swallowed with water.

 

I have experienced the constant/racing thoughts/internal mental chatter your son seems to be describing.....sufficient magnesium, inositol and fish oil calm it into non-existence. it's wonderful!!!

 

GABA (sublingually), fish oil, glycine and magnesium eliminate the anxiety for me....

 

There are a lot of other things I do as well....sufficient D (2,000 IU per day), b6, p5p (another form of b6), a great multi, sufficient calcium etc etc.

 

The book _Depression Free Naturally_ was a lifesaver for me.....finding the orthomolecular physician to do all of the testing was instrumental for my child....who at 6 couldn't always tell me exactly how x,y,z affected her and how supplements did or didn't help.

 

the testing can be ordered from directlabs.com if you want to skip the doc entirely. however, since your son is 12, i'd hold off on spending the big bucks at this point and would simply order _Depression FRee Naturally_ and start reading. It covers ocd, depression, anxiety, bipolar, blood sugar issues andmuch much more.

 

Sending hugs,

Katherine

[Scarlett]

2nd Wendi's suggestion to look into supplements. My experience here in Atlanta with naturopaths was not good. I couldn't find one who knew enough to be helpful. None of them knew more than I did about alternative therapies and I'd exhausted my knowledge bank. I found an orthomolecular doctor who was very helpful and ordered testing from metametrix which was VERY helpful....clarifying and offering concrete evidence of things I'd figured out from reading: we have a genetic glitch in our conversion of b6 to the p5p form...the form used by the body to convert tryptophan to seratonin and tyrosine to dopamine. we have pyroluria....a glitch in hemoglobin synthesis or breakdown (can't recall which). b/c of it, we need significantly higher doses of b6 and zinc v. the typical population. we need significantly more fish oil. more vitamin e.

 

Nearly everyone is deficient in vitamin d. We are just beginning understand the role vitamin d plays in mental health. It's significant. There's an easy blood test: 25(OH)D. 'twentyfive hydroxy vitamin d' is how it's pronounced.

 

Start with a great multi like Rainbow Light Men's Just Once (he's 12 right....if younger a different one might be more appropriate).....some fish oil like Natural Factors Rx Omega (best value per g DHA/EPA). I buy most supps at iherb.com

 

Optimize outside time....healthy diet....fruits, nonstarchy veggies at every meal, some raw or lightly roasted nuts (no oil added), then add in potato/sweet potato/winter squash/carbs grains......and sufficient animal protein to meet your family/individual needs.

 

At this age, zinc and magnesium needs are significantly increased and typically those needs are not met. magnesium will have a noticeable effect on anxiety for some.....and zinc on ocd'ish behaviors (magnesium too actually). Inositol is incredibly calming for me and my dd.....it's a sweet powder, very easy to take directly on the tongue swallowed with water.

 

I have experienced the constant/racing thoughts/internal mental chatter your son seems to be describing.....sufficient magnesium, inositol and fish oil calm it into non-existence. it's wonderful!!!

 

GABA (sublingually), fish oil, glycine and magnesium eliminate the anxiety for me....

 

There are a lot of other things I do as well....sufficient D (2,000 IU per day), b6, p5p (another form of b6), a great multi, sufficient calcium etc etc.

 

The book _Depression Free Naturally_ was a lifesaver for me.....finding the orthomolecular physician to do all of the testing was instrumental for my child....who at 6 couldn't always tell me exactly how x,y,z affected her and how supplements did or didn't help.

 

the testing can be ordered from directlabs.com if you want to skip the doc entirely. however, since your son is 12, i'd hold off on spending the big bucks at this point and would simply order _Depression FRee Naturally_ and start reading. It covers ocd, depression, anxiety, bipolar, blood sugar issues andmuch much more.

 

Sending hugs,

Katherine

 

 

He isn't 12---only 8...will be 9 in March..but thank you for this post...I will get the book and continue to explore the supplements angle.

[Cheryl in NM]

Does this sound like hormones to anyone else? Our girls are maturing years aghead of when we did, but we forget our little guys. This sounds like the beginnings of puberty to me. It also sounds like there's some anxiety issues. I also see the physical symptoms and sadness as a control issue. After he laid down for 10 minutes he was fine. When he was with his friend he was fine. Maybe he's bored with his schoolwork and needs to discipline himself to do it even if he'd rather be doing something else.

 

I'm not trying to discount anything anyone else has said. I just didn't see this point yet. I know several people whose girls began puberty at 8 or 9. It's all the hormones and additives in our food. (There I just lost all credibility didn't I):tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: BTW, some things just need time. And sometimes those things are hard. I know it's no consolation.

[camibami]

You know, I think finding the causes of these quirks is very valuable- it was for us.

 

My oldest had some issues at 6-7 (longer really, but I really took note them then) and we ended up (after a long while) with a diagnosis of Tourette's, probably "somewhere on the autism spectrum" like PDD-NOS(that was uber-helpful:glare:), with a learning disorder and a high IQ.

 

As she ages, PiedPiper is easier. Getting a diagnosis (even ones we can't really do much of anything about ala meds, etc except sort of the learning disorder) helped *her* deal with her feelings better. Instead of frustration with herself and her out-of-syncness with, well, most of the world, she can explain it. Its still *there*, but she knows *why*. She has to work harder on some things, that's just how it is. She has to explain to kids why she is flapping her arms (actually, she's really confident and outgoing, so no problems there), its just how it is. She has to wait for her friends to "get" her ideas, and not get frustrated with them, its just how it is.

 

She was a lot like your son sounds now, with the general frustration and sadness, before we got some answers. I don't have any idea what may be up with your son, but I know for us it was **SO** worthwhile to pursue these things.

 

Cutting out HFC and Red dyes helped, too, but for us at least we needed some fancy Drs to get to the bottom of her. Knowing what this was has helped tremendously, the whole family.

[PrairieAir]

Reading through this thread reminds me of some things I need to do for myself! I am very bad about remembering to take my vitamins (and my diet is not so excellent that I don't need them) and many of the things you and others have described here are things I experience when I am not doing all I know I should to take care of myself. Vitamin B and plenty of fresh air, sunshine, and exercise are very key for my mood and my ability to function overall. The fish oil seemed to help when I was taking it too. I have been scatter-brained, tired, and beginning to feel frustrated and overwhelmed lately. So, thanks for the reminder!

 

If it were one of my kids, I would talk to a doctor (either our family doc or a naturopath) about it. I would also keep a diary of everything ds eats, drinks, and does for a few weeks to see if there is any common foods/beverages, environment, or activity that seem to bring on symptoms. Start him on a good supplement if he isn't already on one. Experiment with different combinations until you find what is right for him. (But don't exceed recommended dosages of course.) Make sure he is getting plenty of fresh air and exercise. Look for possible environmental allergens that could be causing problems. Is he more affected during certain times of year? Does he have more trouble when the cat/dog is inside? Keeping the diary will help you pinpoint possible triggers.

[Scarlett]

Does this sound like hormones to anyone else? Our girls are maturing years aghead of when we did, but we forget our little guys. This sounds like the beginnings of puberty to me. It also sounds like there's some anxiety issues. I also see the physical symptoms and sadness as a control issue. After he laid down for 10 minutes he was fine. When he was with his friend he was fine. Maybe he's bored with his schoolwork and needs to discipline himself to do it even if he'd rather be doing something else.

 

I'm not trying to discount anything anyone else has said. I just didn't see this point yet. I know several people whose girls began puberty at 8 or 9. It's all the hormones and additives in our food. (There I just lost all credibility didn't I):tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: BTW, some things just need time. And sometimes those things are hard. I know it's no consolation.

 

Thanks....I have thought of puberty. A lot of it could be manipulation of me...or a combination of both.

 

(ITA about the food additives...:))

[Ottakee]

When you talk to the doctor, ask for some basic blood work---CBC, blood sugar, lipids, THYROID (this is one I would really ask for), etc. Even kids can have thyroid problems. Another test, might be a strep titer as PANDAS (generally related to OCD) is caused by strep but it can be behind anxiety.

 

I would also keep a food log, sleep log, etc. to see if you can notice any patterns. Also, when he sleeps, does he sleep WELL or he is really restless? Sleep problems can affect behavior as well.

 

If nothing else shows up, I would follow up with a pediatric psychiatrist or developmental ped. to try to get to the bottom of this.

 

[

[Scarlett]

When you talk to the doctor, ask for some basic blood work---CBC, blood sugar, lipids, THYROID (this is one I would really ask for), etc. Even kids can have thyroid problems. Another test, might be a strep titer as PANDAS (generally related to OCD) is caused by strep but it can be behind anxiety.

 

I would also keep a food log, sleep log, etc. to see if you can notice any patterns. Also, when he sleeps, does he sleep WELL or he is really restless? Sleep problems can affect behavior as well.

 

If nothing else shows up, I would follow up with a pediatric psychiatrist or developmental ped. to try to get to the bottom of this.

 

[

 

Thanks...I will ask for that. I think ds sleeps well, but he does sometimes talk a lot in his sleep.

 

Today I've worked very hard on dealing kindly with him. Maybe I'm the cause of it all. You know what they say...it is always the mother's fault...:tongue_smilie:

[The Governess]

How does this look as notes to discuss with his doctor tomorrow? I want to avoid going on and on...:)

 

Complains of chest pains/headaches and stomachaches frequently.

 

Depression---3 times in the last 6 months or so…. has expressed deep sadness for reasons he can’t explain.

 

Obsessions---gets very upset when he has any challenge in schoolwork. Replays upsetting conversations and incidents in his head and can’t quit talking about them.

 

Repeating.

 

Smacking his head before answering each math question in timed drill.

 

I would add to this list the complaints of tiredness and that you've noticed circles under the eyes even after a good night of sleep. Also that he seems to be having some memory trouble, to the point that it is frustrating him. It seems like these things, along with the stomachaches/headaches etc. could point toward a physical problem/allergy/nutritional issue.

 

:grouphug: I hope the appointment goes well and you get some answers that can help.

[Chris in VA]

I truly don't believe you are the cause of his problems.

Have you seen Doris Rapp's Is This Your Child? The heavy dark circles, mood swings and lack of energy are red flags to me. Also, I'd take him to a developmental ped asap. I think there are signs of spectrum disorder, but don't take anyone's word for it on a forum, as a PP said. Getting a diag is important in order to figure out treatment. I know you want him to feel better, and I know he'll act better if he feels better. You can then separate out parenting/kid issues from medical issues.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: Just sending out a hug. Your little guy is lucky to have you looking out for him.

[Tree House Academy]

Reminds me a bit of bipolar disorder. In adults, depression and mania come on slowly. In kids, they fluctuate rapidly and can go back and forth several times a day. That said, most pyschologists hesitate to diagnose a child with Bi-polar disorder.

 

Start with the prediatrician. Ask for a referral to a psychiatrist who may suggest a neurological exam. When we had my son tested, his psych had him evaluated by a neurologist to rule out several things. His diagnosis is ADHD. The only thing that my son displays that your son does is that he will make comments like, "I am so stupid" and stuff if he, say, misses a math problem or a spelling word. He can be self defeating, but only when he is upset. Otherwise, he thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. Your son is definitely not displaying behaviors that are "normal" in my opinion. Even if this is simply depression, it needs to be evaluated. A child his age suffering from depression can be in lots of turmoil. My best friend's daughter was diagnosed with clinical depression at the age of 9. Sleeping all the time, crying a lot, clinging to friends, talking badly about herself - all were signs.

 

Please keep us posted.

[Tree House Academy]

Oh...and as for what to tell the doctor, I HONESTLY would print out your original post in ms word format and hand it to the doctor. Let him read what you wrote to us. This also protects your son, who already has anxiety, from hearing your worries. If he/she is a good doctor, he/she will take the time to read it and will get a good view of what you are dealing with without you having to really say a word.