amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Ds, 13 in a couple weeks, autism spectrum, attention span of a gnat. He doesn't grasp the purpose of a lesson (I guess you could say lecture style). The only area I'm currently interested in "fixing" is language arts. We're using Barton. Level 3, lesson 5 with floss rule and unit syllables. Pretty much the entire time I'm going through the lesson, he keeps asking if we can just get it done already. Yes, he's disrespectful, but this post isn't to address that. Those behaviors come out with lack of understanding. I need some ideas of making the lecture part of the lesson more physical or concrete. Maybe I prepare worksheets that follow the lesson flow? He's a workbook kid... "here's how you do x, now go do it." It takes time for things to click, so for math concepts, there's not much teaching. It's more like, "watch, ok, do." He watches. Then I walk him through a bunch of problems, then he does a bunch on his own. Then he continues doing the same thing until he understands. He has to do before he gets it. Science is read a paragraph, answer a question. Social studies is the same. He has live lessons for science and social studies, but I go through his daily work in that read then answer format. He also has a pre-teaching lesson with his general education teachers on Mondays, but it's concrete. They may go through a quiz or something. Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 It's not a matter of shortening the lessons either! If I shorten, there's less to actually do. If that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 So are you saying he does okay with the rest of his curriculum? Perhaps the LA isn't his style. Maybe he needs something more hands on? I have no idea what floss rule is but I'm assuming unit syllables is just how many syllables are in a word? Am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I tutored a student on the Asperger end of the spectrum, and one thing that really helped with getting him to stay focused while I talked (this was for math, so we were sitting at a table with a whiteboard in front of us) was to talk (and write) literally as fast as I could. And he got it all. It was really weird. Too bad I didn't figure this out until the last month of our time together. Anyway, I don't know if that is helpful, but I thought I'd pass it along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I would cross post this on the Learning Challenges board. You need advice from people who know and use Barton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Barton user here, too, and we're just a few lessons ahead of you. One thing I've done in the "lecture" part of explaining new rules is to add a lot more of him building the word (even if it's me telling him what tiles to pull) vs. me building the example words. Then we make up other words that fit the rule, as needed, for him to see it in action. If doing this on a white board would work better, or a work sheet, I'd say go for it. My son hates/detests/struggles with the physical writing part, so we do very little of that and use the tiles instead except on the day/part of the lesson that says "spell words on paper" (and then I skip the nonsense words), but maybe for your son you add nonsense words (and real words) and let him write, use the tiles, etc. to practice during the lesson. Even using the "extra practice" worksheets that come with, as something for him to physically fill in while you do the lecture (or sprinkled throughout) might help. For other games, worksheets, etc., you could build 4x4 word grids (or 3x3, etc.) where you have words from the lesson spelled right and words from the lesson spelled wrong, and he goes through and marks (circles, crosses out, colors in the square, put a bingo tile over it, etc) the correct ones. Another time, have him mark the wrong ones. Maybe as you are explaining the lesson, you have him put a bingo marker or highlight any word he finds with the right use of the rule. As for the unit syllables, ugh, that part is still tripping up my son (we just got to the lesson adding the -ng & -nk units) but I assume we'll get better at it once we start using it more. Hopefully. I didn't stress it much when it was just the -all unit, except to add on the end of every day "and we spell /all/ with what unit?" Oh, and I also do the whole lecture part as a quiz style. So, I give him the rule, and have him repeat back to me, "Now, what letters get doubled at the end of the word?" "Now, what do we do when there's an f (s, l) at the end of the word?" and then have him show me. More like a dialogue than a lecture, and with as much hands-on as I can think of. Hope that helps! We deal with many of the same things (and do social studies & science the same way, math the same way, etc..). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 So are you saying he does okay with the rest of his curriculum? Perhaps the LA isn't his style. Maybe he needs something more hands on? I have no idea what floss rule is but I'm assuming unit syllables is just how many syllables are in a word? Am I right? Floss is just a spelling rule, unit syllable type of syllable. He's getting it. It's sticking. His speech therapist is seeing improvement in his ability to attempt spelling. So he gets it, just not the lecture part, which is the "doing it" that he whines about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Barton is already pretty hands on. Are you using the letter tiles or the app? He may like the other way bettter. Sounds like he doesn't like teacher directed lessons. Would it help if you let him follow along him the "script" that goes with each Barton lesson so that he will know what does need to be done? On the other hand, Barton is great for a lot of people, but it isn't for everyone. He may prefer a more workbook type program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Floss is just a spelling rule, unit syllable type of syllable. He's getting it. It's sticking. His speech therapist is seeing improvement in his ability to attempt spelling. So he gets it, just not the lecture part, which is the "doing it" that he whines about. If it's just that he feels you spend too much time on the lecture portion of the lesson, and once you get into the "build this word, spell that word, finger spell, etc..." portion he can do it......I'd just shorten the lesson. There's no reason, if he's grasping the material, to feel you MUST follow the script verbatim. I've done that, too; skip part of the explanation because I can see he gets "this is how to do this" and the lengthy words about why just bog him down. Hopefully that doesn't come back to bite me later on, but so far, so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Floss is just a spelling rule, unit syllable type of syllable. He's getting it. It's sticking. His speech therapist is seeing improvement in his ability to attempt spelling. So he gets it, just not the lecture part, which is the "doing it" that he whines about. Would he be able to focus better if he had something to manipulate in his hands, or must his hands be free? My ds is an Aspie and when he was younger, he always had matchbox cars or action figures to hold onto while I was talking about something. It kept his hands busy and his mind free. Sorry, I don't know anything about Barton. I hope you find a solution!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 City Mouse- the app would probably be better, but we don't have a device for it. I'll look into a cheap device though. Reader- I follow the script, but not every little piece. I don't want to skip too much, because there's obviously something he's missed in the past in reading and spelling instruction. So far I noticed the biggest thing is slowing him down. He fights to the death over touch and sound out and finger spelling, but both consistently get him through a block (today he couldn't read squall and had the biggest smirk after touching each sound and being able to read it. Lol). Night Elf- he so can't fidget! Lol. If he's so much as wiggling a finger, he's not focusing on the lesson. My dd needs to fidget, so I've seen how it helps. Not ds though. :( I'm going to play around with worksheets or a written format of what the flow is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 And I spoke to his special ed teacher that he's starting with soon. Well, he started, but we don't have the curriculum yet. Anyway, knowing exactly what I'm talking about, that's one of her goals with him. She's going to start small by teaching and having him complete practice WITH her, then in front of her while still logged into lesson, then independent 1 day a week, then finally daily "homework." Someone asked about other subjects, and they're the same. He doesn't grasp how the lecture connects to the doing part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 do you do anything specifically for the asd/add? I finally took dudeling into a ped neuro. after taking him to a ND for years. the neuro said this is SO typical of this age - the hormones kick in, and they get worse. he's now on two non-stimulant rxs, and the differences are amazing. it also reduces his anxiety . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmith Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Not familiar with Barton at all, but I know my son at that age couldn't take a lecture and convert it into practical knowledge. Even now he has trouble with it. I would probably handle it the way TheReader mentioned at the end of her post or create some kind of worksheet. Thankfully ds is a natural speller and reader and started out in Montessori with a school that was known for their hands-on phonics/reading/spelling program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 do you do anything specifically for the asd/add? I finally took dudeling into a ped neuro. after taking him to a ND for years. the neuro said this is SO typical of this age - the hormones kick in, and they get worse. he's now on two non-stimulant rxs, and the differences are amazing. it also reduces his anxiety . . . He's had sooooo many reactions to meds that we've just settled on a small dose of Prozac that helps the anxiety a tiny bit. Non stim ADHD med caused suicidal thoughts. Stims are very short and he crashes hard. He also takes fish oil (though not the ADHD ratio) and some meds for sleep. We're on a trial hold. He's been doing as well as I can see meds doing. At least for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 If you know anyone with All About Spelling, maybe see if you can borrow their rule cards to see if those help him internalize the rules. I am in a waiting room now but I can check my AAS manuals later for which level covers the floss rule Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 I have AAS 1 and 2. I don't think they have floss. It's not so much not getting the rule as wanting to do and be done. So writing the words, phrases, sentences, reading the story are considered doing. Teaching is apparently not. He just needs to zip it and let it flow because it does work. He's just not realizing somehow. I did come up with a flow for lesson 5 last night. So we'll go over the floss rule, write some words, go over the unit syllable, write some words, etc. Maybe going back and forth will help. He *can* do a lesson as written but isn't grasping the new teaching without a doing, and tiles don't count, I don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I have AAS 1 and 2. I don't think they have floss. It's Level 1 Step 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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