"I want to do more math, Mom."

[eternallytired]

Help!  My 8yo keeps telling me this, but he can't articulate what it is he's looking for.  First he wanted "hard math" when we were cruising through RS, so after level C I put him in BA.  That seems to be about the right level of challenge, but now he keeps saying he wants more math.

 

Right now he's finishing BA4.  He moves REALLY slowly because of his ADHD (gave up on meds, since they kept losing effectiveness every couple months--and doc was remarkably un-helpful).  I'm thinking really there are more problems than he needs in BA, though I know everyone says to do every single problem; he understands the concepts very quickly and I'm considering trimming what I require of him so it's less time-consuming and tedious/repetitive.  His only complaint with BA is that they cover a topic for a while and move on.  I think he'd be content to camp on one topic for a long period and develop it more deeply.

 

He plays Prodigy on a fairly regular basis and enjoys it.

 

He played through Dragonbox Algebra 5+ several times and then asked for more games like it, so I picked up Dragonbox Elements and will grab Algebra 12+ when he finishes that.  (We only have Android devices, which limit us on the app front.)

 

He's watched all the BrainPop math videos several times each, though his favorites were definitely the probability ones.  (And he said he saw a video about logic gates that was fascinating and he wants to find it back, but that was elsewhere on BrainPop.)

 

Have any of you had a similar kid?  What sated their desire for more math?  TIA!

 

ETA: I picked up Go Figure: A Totally Cool Book About Numbers thinking he'd find it fascinating, but he didn't spend a lot of time looking at it; I'm not sure if he needs something more interactive or what.

Edited August 23, 2017 by eternallytired

[Andromeda]

Come on over to the Accelerated Learner board! 

 

Sometimes kids don't follow the "do the next thing" very well. The best thing you can do is trust yourself and work with your student. It's ok if others will do every problem in every book. It's also ok if your child needs or wants to skip and move on, or continue working with the same topic from different curricula.

 

It may take some trial and error, and the products/curricula that work may change over time. I say this from personal experience as an accelerated learner myself and as a parent of accelerated learners.

 

I have six complete math programs and a bunch of supplements on my shelf because I have a child who was insatiable and did 10-15 full math lessons in a day for fun. Third grade was the year of "give me more," and by fifth grade we found our preferred curriculum and level of challenge. You can try giving your son placement tests from different math programs and see where he places. You can let him look at samples to see if something clicks more. It's ok to run more than one math program at once if you need or want to - hit the wall with one, backtrack to when it was easy, switch to another, etc. They don't even have to be the same grade level. Whatever works.  There are many programs for different learning styles, and ultimately it will be up to you and him to figure out what works.

 

Edited for grammar.

Edited August 23, 2017 by RosemaryAndThyme

[Harriet Vane]

My son was very much this way. Still is. At his brick-and-mortar high school his friends think he is nuts for taking Pre-Calc and Statistics simultaneously.

 

I would encourage deep exploration of nifty side topics. Code making and breaking comes to mind. Chess--it's not strictly math, but often math guys love this game. There are lots of Chess skill-builders that focus on different strategies. Bridge, definitely. (My father-in-law, an actuary and the ultimate math guy, looooooves both Bridge and Chess.) Sudoku.

 

Also, at the library you can find lots and lots of math books. The Sir Cumference series is fabulous, for example.

 

Consider supplementing your current curriculum with Singapore math's challenging problems books.

[eternallytired]

Come on over to the Accelerated Learner board! 

 

Sometimes kids don't follow the "do the next thing" very well. The best thing you can do is trust yourself and work with your student. It's ok if others will do every problem in every book. It's also ok if your child needs or wants to skip and move on, or continue working with the same topic from different curricula.

 

I've been on the AL board before, but I have a "poser" complex, so I feel like it's the wrong place for me to post.  (He's not THAT accelerated.)  I hadn't considered getting multiple curricula to hit the same topic.  Hmm...  Thanks for the suggestion!

 

My son was very much this way. Still is. At his brick-and-mortar high school his friends think he is nuts for taking Pre-Calc and Statistics simultaneously.

 

I would encourage deep exploration of nifty side topics. Code making and breaking comes to mind. Chess--it's not strictly math, but often math guys love this game. There are lots of Chess skill-builders that focus on different strategies. Bridge, definitely. (My father-in-law, an actuary and the ultimate math guy, looooooves both Bridge and Chess.) Sudoku.

 

Also, at the library you can find lots and lots of math books. The Sir Cumference series is fabulous, for example.

 

Consider supplementing your current curriculum with Singapore math's challenging problems books.

He actually LOVES chess!  He plays with his siblings, with Daddy and Grandpa, and against an app I found.  I've not considered Bridge or Sudoku, though.  Thanks for the suggestions!

[Jackie]

My daughter generally prefers not having to interact with her math, so books like Murderous Maths and The Number Devil work well. They get the concepts in her head, where they rattle around until we hit them in her daily math work.

 

We just went to a talk by Art Benjamin, which she loved. He has a Great Courses thing called The Secrets of Mental Math which would be perfectly accessible to a math-loving kid at this level. (Among other things, he taught us how to mentally square any number. Turns out to be easy!)

 

She tolerates the Zaccaro book well, which is saying something strongly positive for a kid who prefers concepts to actually doing math, lol.

[Tumbatoo]

Multiple curricula is what saved my sanity. We have 3-4 going currently. Sometimes just popping over to one got a few weeks will reset whatever problem has occurred in the other while simultaneously not getting in too far. My 7 year old has started getting specific. She wants to learn decimals lol!

[Andromeda]

I've been on the AL board before, but I have a "poser" complex, so I feel like it's the wrong place for me to post.  (He's not THAT accelerated.) 

 

 

 

There is a very large range of what it means to be  "accelerated."  Your son doesn't need to be years ahead or anything like that. What it looks like in reality is different for each child, even in the same family.

[Lori D.]

You might try doing 2 math programs, each coming from a very different angle. Along with Beast Academy, consider adding Life of Fred (Jelly Beans level, and then the 3 Intermediate levels: Kidneys; Liver; Mineshaft). Or, possibly Singapore Primary (levels 4A/B and 5A/B).

 

These past threads have tons of ideas that are full programs to short "units", to "fun math" books and supplements:

Middler boy math boredom

Designing a non-traditional math course for a math-loving structure-hating child

[eternallytired]

Thanks so much for the thread links!  I searched, but...  You know how that goes on here.

 

You might try doing 2 math programs, each coming from a very different angle. Along with Beast Academy, consider adding Life of Fred (Jelly Beans level, and then the 3 Intermediate levels: Kidneys; Liver; Mineshaft). Or, possibly Singapore Primary (levels 4A/B and 5A/B).

 

These past threads have tons of ideas that are full programs to short "units", to "fun math" books and supplements:

Middler boy math boredom

Designing a non-traditional math course for a math-loving structure-hating child

 

[Lori D.]

Thanks so much for the thread links!  I searched, but...  You know how that goes on here.

 

I know indeed... That second big thread I linked, that was started by Quark -- took me multiple attempts coming at it from different ways to find it. And I KNEW it was started by Quark and that I participated in that thread.

 

sigh... I hate the so-called "search function" on this board. :(

[SoCal_Bear]

Loads of living math books on Julie's website here: http://livingmath.net/
 

Also be sure to check out her Living Math History Lesson Plans!

Edited August 23, 2017 by calbear

[Rush]

Someone from the accelerated board suggested this book - https://www.amazon.com/Math-Book-Pythagoras-Milestones-Mathematics/dp/1402788290 We've just received it and I can say its a must-have for all ages. I'll buy all their serie!

for extra practice my mathy kid uses MEP and Zaccaro's books. He also loves Chess and Programming

 

[Rush]

I know indeed... That second big thread I linked, that was started by Quark -- took me multiple attempts coming at it from different ways to find it. And I KNEW it was started by Quark and that I participated in that thread.

 

sigh... I hate the so-called "search function" on this board. :(

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/320275-designing-a-non-traditional-math-course-for-a-math-loving-structure-hating-child/?p=3272174

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My daughter NEEDS maths the same way she needs food and air. I can't really articulate it properly, but it's a real need for her. Maybe your son is similar?

 

My maths path with her has been unconventional, and I'm still tweaking what we do (she's now 11yrs old).

 

We currently use 4 different textbooks at the same time, and we don't work in any sort of sequential way. We chop and change within all the books, dipping in and out of all sorts of topics from day to day.

 

I know that this would make plenty of people twitchy, but it works for her. She thrives on variety and resists (and usually doesn't need) repetition. 

 

 

PS The AL board is friendly place  :)

[eternallytired]

I can see DS doing the multiple curricula, but on one topic.  My hesitation is that he HATES repetition, so I'm afraid that if I get another book that covers a topic and it has an intro that hits on stuff he already knows, he'll reject the whole thing.

 

He's definitely one who has always lived and breathed numbers, though.  I knew I was in trouble when he was faster at mental math than I was by the time he was in "kindergarten" (age, not level).

 

Well, I certainly have a lot of material to research now; hopefully some combination of items will be an obviously amazing pairing with what we've got going.

My daughter NEEDS maths the same way she needs food and air. I can't really articulate it properly, but it's a real need for her. Maybe your son is similar?

 

My maths path with her has been unconventional, and I'm still tweaking what we do (she's now 11yrs old).

 

We currently use 4 different textbooks at the same time, and we don't work in any sort of sequential way. We chop and change within all the books, dipping in and out of all sorts of topics from day to day.

 

I know that this would make plenty of people twitchy, but it works for her. She thrives on variety and resists (and usually doesn't need) repetition. 

 

 

PS The AL board is friendly place  :)

 

[Arcadia]

Someone from the accelerated board suggested this book - https://www.amazon.com/Math-Book-Pythagoras-Milestones-Mathematics/dp/1402788290 We've just received it and I can say its a must-have for all ages. I'll buy all their serie!

for extra practice my mathy kid uses MEP and Zaccaro's books. He also loves Chess and Programming

My kids browse through that entire series at Barnes & Noble and did not like it. They also browse through the Zaccaro books there and didn't like it. They didn't mind MEP though.

 

I can see DS doing the multiple curricula, but on one topic.  My hesitation is that he HATES repetition, so I'm afraid that if I get another book that covers a topic and it has an intro that hits on stuff he already knows, he'll reject the whole thing.

We spend at least 5hrs per day on weekends and public holidays at bookstores. My DS12 reads more than the library could provide. Barnes & Noble always have a copy before the local libraries anyway. My savings account and home floor space can't cope with the books he read so we rather spend on gasoline. He satisfies part of his mental craving from AoPS forums which has physics, chemistry and programming as well. He doesn't ask for more math, just more mental work to tire himself enough to sleep.

 

I do think it is normal for an 8 year old to dislike repetition.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I can see DS doing the multiple curricula, but on one topic.  My hesitation is that he HATES repetition, so I'm afraid that if I get another book that covers a topic and it has an intro that hits on stuff he already knows, he'll reject the whole thing.

 

He's definitely one who has always lived and breathed numbers, though.  I knew I was in trouble when he was faster at mental math than I was by the time he was in "kindergarten" (age, not level).

 

Well, I certainly have a lot of material to research now; hopefully some combination of items will be an obviously amazing pairing with what we've got going.

 

The way we do it is that my daughter rarely even looks in the textbooks. I use them as an overall guide and as a source of problems. 

 

Each day I write a mixture of problems on our whiteboard and she works through them. More often than not, she'll ask for more  :001_smile:

Over time I come back to previous topics, just to check it has stuck and really been mastered. Because it has been interspersed with a gazillion other things, it doesn't look so much like repetition. 

 

Another reason I do it this way is that when my daughter looks at a problem on the whiteboard, it isn't immediately obvious what she needs to do. If we'd just done 15 problems about similar triangles, she'll probably know that it will be related to similar triangles. But this way, she really needs to analyse what she's given and what tools will work best eg trig, pythagorus, simultaneous equations, are there any parallel lines etc. 

 

Anyhoo, it works for my maths-loving girl, so I thought I'd mention it.

[MasaMama]

Maybe "Math Olympiad Contest Problems for Elementary and Middle Schools"? https://www.amazon.com/Olympiad-Contest-Problems-Elementary-Schools/dp/0962666211/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503546123&sr=8-1&keywords=math+olympiad+contest+problems+for+elementary+and+middle+schools

 

 

[eternallytired]

I've just added up how much I'm considering spending.  Ouch.  Unfortunately, our library system (well, they're all independent branches here, so I guess not really a system) is horrible, and I can't do a bookstore for long.  (DD gets restless--and thereby pesky--and YDS is constantly pulling books from the shelves, and he manages to only pick ones with inappropriate cover images and/or inappropriate content.)

 

Sometimes I wonder why I thought multiple children was a good idea.  I love them to pieces, but they each have their own needs/interests that I could exhaust all my time addressing.

 

Thanks, all, for the long and amazing list of suggestions!  Now to try to decide what I'm willing to spend...

 

ETA: Great Courses currently has that mental math course (and a lot of others) for 70% off--which is huge, when you're looking at $100+ per course!

Edited August 25, 2017 by eternallytired

[Arcadia]

ETA: Great Courses currently has that mental math course (and a lot of others) for 70% off--which is huge, when you're looking at $100+ per course!

Some of Dr Arthur Benjamin's Joy of Mathematics great course is on YouTube. His other videos on YouTube are good too.

 

Link is to his Great Course page

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/joy-of-mathematics.html

Edited August 25, 2017 by Arcadia

[daijobu]

I'm working through Art Benjamin's Discrete Math course.  It correlates nicely with AoPS Intermediate C&P.  

[Rush]

and my kid is just reading ebook "Secrets of mental maths" by Benjamin 3rd time and he loves it. 

[luuknam]

ETA: Great Courses currently has that mental math course (and a lot of others) for 70% off--which is huge, when you're looking at $100+ per course!

 

 

I think both Amazon's Great Courses Signature Channel and The Great Courses Plus have that course... and I think they both have limited free trials, and are relatively cheap per month (cancel anytime) - Amazon being the cheaper one. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by luuknam

[eternallytired]

Some of Dr Arthur Benjamin's Joy of Mathematics great course is on YouTube. His other videos on YouTube are good too.

 

Link is to his Great Course page

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/joy-of-mathematics.html

I think both Amazon's Great Courses Signature Channel and The Great Courses Plus have that course... and I think they both have limited free trials, and are relatively cheap per month (cancel anytime) - Amazon being the cheaper one. 

 

For anyone who's considering this, I just discovered that (surprise of surprises) my unimpressive library actually has some Great Courses including a couple by Dr. Benjamin!  Here's to hopelessly checking your library catalog when considering buying things!

[Jackie]

I think both Amazon's Great Courses Signature Channel and The Great Courses Plus have that course... and I think they both have limited free trials, and are relatively cheap per month (cancel anytime) - Amazon being the cheaper one.

Oh wow, I had no idea that Amazon had a Great Courses subscription thingy!

 

I do not need this, I have no time in the schedule for this, and I need to just keep repeating this to myself.

 

...Maybe next year, though.

[luuknam]

Oh wow, I had no idea that Amazon had a Great Courses subscription thingy!

 

I do not need this, I have no time in the schedule for this, and I need to just keep repeating this to myself.

 

...Maybe next year, though.

 

 

See eternally's post above. Check your library. Our library system actually does have I want to say 44(?) of the Great Courses, but mostly not the ones I think would be good for my oldest right now, plus, our DVD player is really uncooperative, and checkout periods, and overdue fines, etc. 

 

If anyone wants to be really cheap, you can also try interlibrary loan - I haven't ever tried to use it for DVDs, but my librarian tells me that they let you get ILL DVDs so long as they're 'educational'. I don't know how *exactly* they define that, but surely The Great Courses would count. Of course, YMMV etc. 

 

ETA: I do realize that this does not create extra time in your schedule. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by luuknam