Grammar in 2nd grade....necessary or wait?

[tdbates78]

We are planning on starting FLL 2 in the fall. My girls did well overall with FFL 1 but they didn't love it. After browsing through book 2 I can say I'm not overly excited about it myself ;). My girls are kind of immature for their ages, and I dread working through those preposition lists!

 

I have seen mentioned, in several posts, that some of you chose not to do a formal grammar program until later elementary and the wheels started turning. For those that skip formal grammar until later, any regrets? Do you find that spelling, reading and writing is enough?

Edited May 30, 2017 by tdbates78

[SilverMoon]

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Edited October 18, 2023 by SilverMoon

[wendyroo]

We did beginning grammar in 1st grade; I just wanted to nail down the basic parts of speech.  It is the start of the grammar stage, and I wanted us to have a common vocabulary with which to discuss words and sentences.  I used The Sentence Family two years ago when oldest was in first and #2 was 4.  I will be going through it again this coming year now that #2 is in first and #3 will be 4.

 

I devoted second grade to punctuation.  DS was ready to start short written narrations, but to do so correctly, he needed to know how to use the various punctuation marks.  Obviously, he already knew about periods, question marks and exclamation points, but now he desperately needed to know how to wield commas and conjunctions to shore up his more complex sentences.  We went through the Basher Punctuation book and added worksheets for each topic.

 

DS now has a very thorough understanding of punctuation, so for third grade we are revisiting grammar.  We are going to go through MCT's Island Level to learn about more complex grammatical concepts and to learn about breaking sentences into their parts.  I will probably also briefly introduce sentence diagramming as a complement to MCT's form of sentence analysis.

 

Wendy

 

[nixpix5]

We did beginning grammar in 1st grade; I just wanted to nail down the basic parts of speech. It is the start of the grammar stage, and I wanted us to have a common vocabulary with which to discuss words and sentences. I used The Sentence Family two years ago when oldest was in first and #2 was 4. I will be going through it again this coming year now that #2 is in first and #3 will be 4.

 

I devoted second grade to punctuation. DS was ready to start short written narrations, but to do so correctly, he needed to know how to use the various punctuation marks. Obviously, he already knew about periods, question marks and exclamation points, but now he desperately needed to know how to wield commas and conjunctions to shore up his more complex sentences. We went through the Basher Punctuation book and added worksheets for each topic.

 

DS now has a very thorough understanding of punctuation, so for third grade we are revisiting grammar. We are going to go through MCT's Island Level to learn about more complex grammatical concepts and to learn about breaking sentences into their parts. I will probably also briefly introduce sentence diagramming as a complement to MCT's form of sentence analysis.

 

Wendy

 

I love this grammar plan! Good stuff!

[Guest]

I didn't start my kids until 3rd grade. No regrets at all. Looking back, I probably should've waited yet another year.

[Ms.Ivy]

It is much easier to teach grammar to an older student. I am a fan of teaching poetry to younger elementary students instead of grammar. We read, memorize and enjoy poetry. I think it gets them a lot further than parsing does at that age. I have used Climbing to Good English 2 for second grade, which includes a little bit of grammar and enough mechanics to get them ready for writing. It is only one page a day... quick and easy. And it leaves us enough time to read stories, memorize poems, and sing songs.

[Hunter]

I have the WWE teacher manual but not any of the workbooks. I also have Ruth Beechick's The Three R's. These books fit pretty well into the AO English scope and sequence.

https://www.amblesideonline.org/LangArtsScopeSeq.shtml

[CAtoVA]

I have mostly been using Sentence Family and Well Ordered Language with my DD starting slowly when she was in 2nd grade and adding in more to her 3rd grade year. Sentence Family is  a fun, gentle introduction to the parts of speech while Well Ordered Language is more formal, but not as dry as First Language Lessons, imo. My DD has loved both, but then, she loves grammar and asks to diagram sentences (!) I also tried MCT with her, thinking the story aspects would inspire interest, but she was put off by it.

 

I don't think it will hurt anything to wait until a child is in 3rd grade or older to start learning grammar especially if he or she is not strong yet in reading, phonics/spelling and handwriting. In that case, I would use the time reinforcing and solidifying those things rather than introducing something new (grammar). My oldest daughter was ready to start some grammar in second grade but my DS was not. I didn't do any formal grammar with him K-3 and then he went to school for 4-6 and didn't do any there either. This year (7th grade) he's been home again and we have been studying grammar in the context of his writing. He's been a little hampered by not knowing specific vocabulary but his writing hasn't suffered from not having studied formal grammar for years.

 

[happypamama]

I teach grammar in the early years through WWE.  I think it makes things stick a lot better if it's in some sort of context, and I like how WWE provides that.

 

We start Latin around fourth grade, and that really cements the parts of speech and all for them.  I would totally not sweat skipping it in second grade.

[tdbates78]

Thanks everyone!

 

FWIW, both are fairly strong readers, okay spellers and reluctant writers. They did well with FLL 1 but moaned and groaned about it and, despute all the repetition, can't name a pronoun without gentle reminders.

 

School in general has always been a struggle. They were never those "yay, school!" kids, even in preschool. I pulled them out of PS in January. Their attention span runs fairly short (one has HF ASD, the other undiagnosed mild ADHD). I can see where putting it off for a year or two would be beneficial, and give us more time to work on, say, writing (starting WWE in the fall) which I know is going to come with push back.

 

But Im certainly open to a more "fun" approach. Im going to research Sentence Family and Well Ordered Language.

 

Thank you again for the input!

[Ellie]

We don't do formal grammar until the dc is 10 or 11yo.

[ExcitedMama]

You could check out English Lessons Through Literature (ELTL) if you wanted a gentle language program with grammar and writing. There are samples to give you a better idea.

http://barefootmeandering.com/site/lessons-through-literature/eltl/

[knitgrl]

Both dd and I are enjoying ELTL 2. It's written for three days a week, though we usually just do two and call it good. It has lovely poems, Aesop's fables, copywork, covers grammar at a reasonable pace with just enough review, and picture studies periodically, which is especially nice, because I never get to it on my own.

[coastalfam]

I think it is totally fine to take a break. This is the first year I covered grammar with my son, who is in 3rd grade, and he just picked it up so easily, I think because of his maturity, and because this is the year he was finally motivated to learn to write original pieces. I'd say, pick up some Mad Libs, and call it good until you think they are ready. Another poster mentioned ELTL. I started DS in Level 3, which is now renamed Level C, and he had no problem picking it up despite not having any previous grammar instruction. I find it more enjoyable than FLL, though it follows the same basic form. Consider it for when you are ready to pick back up with grammar.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I don't think either approach is wrong and largely depends on the student.  If they are still grappling with phonics and spelling, I think it's ok and maybe beneficial to hold off.  If you have a natural speller or language oriented child, I think starting earlier is great.  We tried FLL with my son, and it is so auditory that we were both very bored.  I do think WWE is great, and it is important to point out proper punctuation and the concept of a solid sentence.  What about something fun like The Sentence Family that introduces the parts of speech, and ten begin formal grammar in third.

[Tiramisu]

In third grade I used Evan Moor Daily Language Review with WWE. I don't know what the EM second grade is like but if it's similar, I would recommend that. Completely practical skills, low stress, maybe four problems.

[EKS]

Not even remotely necessary.

 

And preposition lists are *never* necessary.

 

I'd wait a year or two and then take a look at MCT.  No preposition lists.

[fourisenough]

I think all a 2nd grader needs to know is what constitutes a complete sentence, that sentences begin with upper-case letters and end with punctuation marks, and that different types of sentences require different end marks. If your students master this in 2nd grade, they'll be well on their way to writing effectively, which is the end-goal of grammar instruction.

 

Because my 2nd grader is a struggling speller, I simply taught the above in the context of our AAS dictation sentences then drilled it during memory work/recitation. She can now bang out complete, properly-punctuated sentences. I feel like this is a solid place to be entering 3rd grade. And we didn't have to find time to squeeze in a whole grammar program.

[bluejay]

We do FLL 2 in Grade 2.  But to be honest, I think a lot of it is unnecessary.   What's really important to know early on is (as others have noted) sentence structure, basic punctuation and capitalization.  I am a big advocate of proofreading too. 

 

I would suggest that if you skip FLL 2 that year, that you at least keep up with FLL 1 concepts (nouns, pronouns, some verbs). 

 

Also I'd suggest this exercise:  When your child writes a sentence, occasionally mark off the common nouns, proper nouns, action verbs (and maybe adjectives).   Circle a word and say "that's a verb" or write "v."  A child is not supposed to know this by heart right away.  Repetition is the key.  Just expose them to it without any pressure. 

 

The four kinds of verbs will drive your child crazy if you push it (heck, it will drive some adults crazy too), so don't feel it has to be mastered.  Action verbs are easiest.

 

For adjectives, pick the child's favorite things and ask them to describe it.  "What's a cat like? What's this toy like?  Big?  Small?  New?  Old?  Those are adjectives."  Simple stuff like that.  I try to use grammar in real life examples as much as possible.  It works better that way. 

 

Anyway, to get back to your question.  It should be fine to slow down on it.  If you do WWE though, understand that the two go hand in hand together.  

 

Oh, also grammar is very important if you plan to teach foreign languages later on. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by bluejay

[blondchen]

Do you find that spelling, reading and writing is enough?

Yep. The basics of grammar can be taught as needed, in context, and there are writing programs that do that explicitly (including WWE, which I see you're using). Just reinforce and remind when issues come up. The nitty gritty can wait, especially if the child's oral usage is solid. WWE gives excellent practice with punctuation, and the copywork is great for reinforcing good language patterns.

 

It is much easier to teach grammar to an older student. I am a fan of teaching poetry to younger elementary students instead of grammar. We read, memorize and enjoy poetry. I think it gets them a lot further than parsing does at that age. 

Yes, yes, yes! I am a total grammar nerd, and I started FLL with my oldest in first grade and wanted to poke my eyes out with all the lists and repetition. I abandoned it and didn't look back, and what DD didn't pick up via WWE, she learned very quickly and easily as needed. Constant exposure to good language patterns is the important thing in the early years, not memorizing list after list of parts of speech. Blech.

[tdbates78]

Thank you so much! I feel a sense of relief! I purchased grammaropolis through homeschooled buyers co-op, which looks fun and was very inexpensive. Also purchased Sentence Family. We will use those loosely next year and I plan to reassess what we use for formal grammar when I'm ready to add it back in. Leaning towards MCT or LLATL but I have plenty of time to figure that out. In the interim we will just focus on our other LA subjects and I all continue to stress correct sentence structure and punctuation.